Why are people in kentucky lynching census workers?

T

thwak

CAGiversary!
seriously this is ridiculous.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2009-09-27-census_N.htm

Census surveys will remain suspended in a rural Kentucky county while law enforcement investigates the death of a part-time Census worker who was found dead in a cemetery, hanging from a tree with the word "fed" written on his body, an official said Sunday.
The death of Bill Sparkman has not been linked to his Census work. But the Census Bureau said door-to-door visits in the area will be halted until it gets a "better understanding of what happened," spokesman Stephen Buckner said.
Sparkman, 51, died from asphyxiation, according to the preliminary finding of the local coroner. The man who found the body in Clay County told the Associated Press that Sparkman was nearly naked and had duct tape over his mouth.
Local authorities have not officially declared the case a homicide. Sparkman's neck had a rope around it, and his feet were touching the ground, according to the Kentucky State Police.
The circumstances of Sparkman's death has unnerved many residents of this sparsely populated section of southeastern Kentucky.
"It shocked me to death," said Michelle Carpenter, 35, of Manchester, Ky. "It's a scary time right now in this county."
The county of about 24,000 people has been the scene of numerous drug and corruption raids by federal agents in recent years. Among those convicted of corruption in Manchester include the former mayor, two former city councilmen and the assistant police chief, The Courier-Journal of Louisville reported this year. County officials convicted in corruption and drug probes include a county clerk, a magistrate and an election commissioner.
In March, a local circuit court judge and the superintendent of the county's school system were indicted on charges of voter fraud.
Sparkman had been working on the American Community Survey, which queries 3 million households a year on topics including income, work and education, Buckner said. He was a substitute teacher at an elementary school and was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Violence against Census workers is rare, said the agency. Since 2000, one worker died in an attack by dogs in Nashville, Ind. On 9/11, two employees were aboard United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania.
Contributing: Associated Press
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come on! do we really need to be lynching census workers now?!
 
Those crazy anarchists in Kentucky...booga booga booga! The "people" aren't lynching census workers. One nutjob did it.

But this stuff really should be abolished anyway.. It's an invasion of privacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey

The Department of Commerce claims that those who receive a survey form are required to provide answers to a long list of questions about themselves and their families, including their profession, how much money they earn, their source of health insurance, their preferred mode of transportation to and from work, and the amount of money they pay for housing and utilities. Those who decline to answer these questions may receive follow-up phone calls and/or visits to their homes from Census Bureau personnel, and are threatened with prosecution and fines.

I like Ron Paul's stand on the issue..

None of your business.

You may not have heard of the American Community Survey, but you will. The national census, which historically is taken every ten years, has expanded to quench the federal bureaucracy’s ever-growing thirst to govern every aspect of American life. The new survey, unlike the traditional census, is taken each and every year at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars. And it’s not brief. It contains 24 pages of intrusive questions concerning matters that simply are none of the government’s business, including your job, your income, your physical and emotional heath, your family status, your dwelling, and your intimate personal habits.

The questions are both ludicrous and insulting. The survey asks, for instance, how many bathrooms you have in your house, how many miles you drive to work, how many days you were sick last year, and whether you have trouble getting up stairs. It goes on and on, mixing inane questions with highly detailed inquiries about your financial affairs. One can only imagine the countless malevolent ways our federal bureaucrats could use this information. At the very least the survey will be used to dole out pork, which is reason enough to oppose it.

Keep in mind the survey is not voluntary, nor is the Census Bureau asking politely. Americans are legally obligated to answer, and can be fined up to $1,000 per question if they refuse!

I introduced an amendment last week that would have eliminated funds for this intrusive survey in a spending bill, explaining on the House floor that perhaps the American people don’t appreciate being threatened by Big Brother. The amendment was met by either indifference or hostility, as most members of Congress either don’t care about or actively support government snooping into the private affairs of citizens.

One of the worst aspects of the census is its focus on classifying people by race. When government tells us it wants information to “help” any given group, it assumes every individual who shares certain physical characteristics has the same interests, or wants the same things from government. This is an inherently racist and offensive assumption. The census, like so many federal policies and programs, inflames racism by encouraging Americans to see themselves as members of racial groups fighting each other for a share of the federal pie.

The census also represents a form of corporate welfare, since the personal data collected on hundred of millions of Americans can be sold to private businesses. Surely business enjoys having such extensive information available from one source, but it’s hardly the duty of taxpayers to subsidize the cost of market research.

At least the national census has its origins in the Constitution, which is more than one can say about the vast majority of programs funded by Congress. Still, Article I makes it clear that the census should be taken every ten years for the sole purpose of congressional redistricting (and apportionment of taxes, prior to the disastrous 16th amendment). This means a simple count of the number of people living in a given area, so that numerically equal congressional districts can be maintained. The founders never authorized the federal government to continuously survey the American people.

More importantly, they never envisioned a nation where the people would roll over and submit to every government demand. The American Community Survey is patently offensive to all Americans who still embody that fundamental American virtue, namely a healthy mistrust of government. The information demanded in the new survey is none of the government’s business, and the American people should insist that Congress reject it now before it becomes entrenched.
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You really expect less from rednecks?

Ought to look into the town of Jena, Louisiana some time. Do that, then tell me you still believe humanity is good.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Those crazy anarchists in Kentucky...booga booga booga! The "people" aren't lynching census workers. One nutjob did it.

But this stuff really should be abolished anyway.. It's an invasion of privacy.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying this is necessarily where you're coming from, but I love when conservatives rail against the census, which is mandated in their usually so precious Constitution. Some of those people (again, not you) are probably the same morons who thinks it's an invasion of privacy when the government asks for your Social Security # (the idiocy of which should be self-explanatory).

As for the American Community Survey, I'd gladly admit that it's not perfect or without its flaws, but it's also not the boogeyman that many conservatives make it out to be. People complain that government is ineffectual and inept and yet also complain when they try to gather information which might help them understand people's needs better. Ron Paul himself said it best in your quote when he said such concerns are born out of a "healthy mistrust of Government" which he calls a "fundamental American virtue." Well not all Americans share that "virtue".
 
[quote name='bvharris']People complain that government is ineffectual and inept and yet also complain when they try to gather information which might help them understand people's needs better.[/QUOTE]

It helps the government understand my needs by knowing how many restrooms are in my home?
 
Perhaps who ever did the lynching (I sincerely doubt it was one person) was listening to too much Michelle Bachmann.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It helps the government understand my needs by knowing how many restrooms are in my home?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the state department doesn't care, but I'd venture that local departments of sanitation might.

Moreover, I don't see how information about the number of bathrooms in a home could possibly be construed as harmful.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Those crazy anarchists in Kentucky...booga booga booga! The "people" aren't lynching census workers. One nutjob did it.

But this stuff really should be abolished anyway.. It's an invasion of privacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey

The Department of Commerce claims that those who receive a survey form are required to provide answers to a long list of questions about themselves and their families, including their profession, how much money they earn, their source of health insurance, their preferred mode of transportation to and from work, and the amount of money they pay for housing and utilities. Those who decline to answer these questions may receive follow-up phone calls and/or visits to their homes from Census Bureau personnel, and are threatened with prosecution and fines.

I like Ron Paul's stand on the issue..

None of your business.
[/QUOTE]

You must be unaware about the Census is necessary with social, economic, and road/building development. My friend is a geography graduate (specializing in some crazy urban thing),and he spent one night drinking with me telling me all about how much the Census is needed in so many fields.

Also isn't in the fucking Constitution doesn't..... Ron Paul love the constitution?
 
[quote name='bvharris']I'm sure the state department doesn't care, but I'd venture that local departments of sanitation might.[/quote]

Let's say I have two people in my home. Now, take the average waste produced by two people and you have the data needed by local sanitation officials. It's not like we're going to be creating more waste if we live in a home with three restrooms vs. one.

Moreover, I don't see how information about the number of bathrooms in a home could possibly be construed as harmful.
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Until you calculate how much tax money went in to determining how many restrooms various households have.

It's like the "How much money do you make?" - what's the point of asking that? Doesn't the government already have this huge 5th branch that already collects all of this information in regards to how much money I make? Why spend the money to find out again?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It's like the "How much money do you make?" - what's the point of asking that? Doesn't the government already have this huge 5th branch that already collects all of this information in regards to how much money I make? Why spend the money to find out again?[/QUOTE]

You might have lied the first time.
 
[quote name='gareman']You must be unaware about the Census is necessary with social, economic, and road/building development. My friend is a geography graduate (specializing in some crazy urban thing),and he spent one night drinking with me telling me all about how much the Census is needed in so many fields.

Also isn't in the fucking Constitution doesn't..... Ron Paul love the constitution?[/QUOTE]

Census = population & possibly other basic facts like age/sex etc..not all of the other invasive crap in a 24 PAGE survey.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']You might have lied the first time.[/QUOTE]

Well, gosh durn it, they got me. Guess I'll tell the truth this time! (I assume your reply is tongue-in-cheek)
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Well, gosh durn it, they got me. Guess I'll tell the truth this time! (I assume your reply is tongue-in-cheek)[/QUOTE]

I think he might be referring to the time you lied and claimed to make over 80k a year.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I think he might be referring to the time you lied and claimed to make over 80k a year.[/QUOTE]

I don't remember that time. Then again, I require myself to forget a lot.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I think he might be referring to the time you lied and claimed to make over 80k a year.[/QUOTE]

Wow... If the government is really paying people to read CheapAssGamer.com to see what people on the internet claim their yearly income is... then I can't think of a better use for taxpayer dollars!
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Census = population & possibly other basic facts like age/sex etc..not all of the other invasive crap in a 24 PAGE survey.[/QUOTE]


You don't see why race is important as far as immigration goes, how amount of bath rooms is connected to water and sewer systems (not to mention quality of living), how much one makes (yes the IRS has this info but isn't easier just to have it one form) is connected economic growth, how many children is connected to population growth, job status is connected to the growing concern over the suburbs turning into the new low-income (which would be a disaster--no sidewalks or stores within walking distance, poorly built building turning into mini apartments), number of cars is connected to road construction and road building--bridge re/construction.

The census is a very useful and necessary government practice for the fields of government, construction, economics, geography, urban development, medical car, car companies, sociology, etc.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I don't remember that time. Then again, I require myself to forget a lot.[/QUOTE]

A good time was had by all.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Wow... If the government is really paying people to read CheapAssGamer.com to see what people on the internet claim their yearly income is... then I can't think of a better use for taxpayer dollars![/QUOTE]

Well, part of my salary comes from government contracts and here I am. :D
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Census = population & possibly other basic facts like age/sex etc..not all of the other invasive crap in a 24 PAGE survey.[/QUOTE]


You don't see why race is important as far as immigration goes, how amount of bath rooms is connected to water and sewer systems (not to mention quality of living), how much one makes (yes the IRS has this info but isn't easier just to have it one form) is connected economic growth, how many children is connected to population growth, job status is connected to the growing concern over the suburbs turning into the new low-income (which would be a disaster--no sidewalks or stores within walking distance, poorly built building turning into mini apartments), number of cars is connected to road construction and road building--bridge re/construction.

The census is a very useful and necessary government practice for the fields of government, construction, economics, geography, urban development, medical car, car companies, sociology, etc.

Like most things in life when I was ignorant on the subject I thought it was somewhat of a waste of money and kind of just neat trivia, than I asked my friend whose professional is directly associated with census data and my mind was changed.
 
[quote name='gareman']You don't see why race is important as far as immigration goes, how amount of bath rooms is connected to water and sewer systems (not to mention quality of living), how much one makes (yes the IRS has this info but isn't easier just to have it one form) is connected economic growth, how many children is connected to population growth, job status is connected to the growing concern over the suburbs turning into the new low-income (which would be a disaster--no sidewalks or stores within walking distance, poorly built building turning into mini apartments), number of cars is connected to road construction and road building--bridge re/construction.[/QUOTE]

Again - number of bathrooms connected to the sewer system doesn't increase the amount of work done by the sewer system. Two people with two bathrooms are going to create the same amount of waste as two people with one bathroom.

The IRS has the information - but let's spend a couple million getting it again.

Number/Age of children, I can agree with.

My job is private information between me and my employer. If you want to know more, you can ask me. However, threatening me for the information isn't going to get you very far.

Number of cars means nothing. If I have 20 cars in my two-person family, there's still a limited amount of driving we can do.
 
The information is important for social science. It's not all just gathered for government use. It's used by sociologists, urban planners, urban planners, social workers, historians and tons of other fields in their research work.

Some of the questions may seem extraneous, but there of use to someone out there interested in that variable for some part of some research study, or it wouldn't make it on the survey instrument.

For instance, tracking number or bedrooms, bathrooms etc. allows for study of trends in home design etc. Everything has some research purpose and the census is really the only way to capture this kind of data as its prohibitively expensive for any researcher to do on their own. So being a social scientist, I'm 100% behind the census. :D

And most smaller surveys are funded with federal dollars anyway. I'm finishing up a $350,000 research project, with nearly half of that going to collecting a phone survey in 3 mid-sized cities and two time points. If the census was scrapped the feds would probably just have to spend more on funding individual studies, vs. getting nationwide data on a lot of key variables every 10 years that people in lots of fields can use.
 
It would be nearly impossible to come up with many of the statistics that are published if we didn't take the census. That data has to come from somewhere. Besides, why doe sit bother you so much to give out this information if you claim they already have it anyway?
 
I didn't get the impression that he much minded giving out the information (other than the job info), but more got the sense that it was just his libertarian beliefs making him think it's a waste of money and not something the government should be spending tax payer money on. Which I disagree with for the reasons above. Generating knowledge is the ultimate goal of human progress IMO, and I support any efforts the government takes on that front, be it the census, the different units like NIH, NIJ etc. funding research, NASA etc.
 
For the most part, I don't mind giving out the information. But, between the fact that A.) Taxpayer money is being wasted on this and B.) Instead of asking me, men with guns are forcing it out of me, it just doesn't sit well with me.

Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is all well and good - and I've actually donated my own time and money to such causes on occasion. But to put a gun to someone's head and force them to open their wallet so you can see how many M&M's it takes to reach the moon and back? No thanks.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']jesus fucking christ.[/QUOTE]

That was a well thought out post that was very helpful for the conversation at hand.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Instead of asking me, men with guns are forcing it out of me, it just doesn't sit well with me.[/QUOTE]
...

I get the feeling that "census" is one of those words that means something different once you cross the 49th parallel. Like "mickey". Or "beaver". Or "fuck the dog".
 
[quote name='The Crotch']...

I get the feeling that "census" is one of those words that means something different once you cross the 49th parallel. Like "mickey". Or "beaver". Or "fuck the dog".[/QUOTE]

Admittedly, it's overly dramatic. However, on the most basic level, it's what is happening. If you refuse to answer the questions (think they're invasive, think they're unconstitutional, just don't want to, whatever), you can get fined. If you refuse to pay the fines (feel they're unjust, don't have the money or just don't want to pay), you'll be taken to court. Don't show up for court (again, feel it's unjust or just don't want to show up) *or* show up at court and express your desire to not pay, get sentenced to jail. Don't want to go to jail? Tough luck - the "men with guns" will make you go - all because you didn't want to tell the government how many restrooms you've got in your home.

On the bright side, no one has actually been charged with any crimes in relation to this pseudo-census that I'm aware of. And I've done slight bit of reading on it, as I've gotten one of these this month. Well, two, actually. And a letter asking me to make sure I do it. I'm waiting for them to show up at my door. "There are two people who reside at this residence. If you want to know anything more, please come back with a court order and a sheriff. Meanwhile, get off my property or I will call the police and have you removed."
 
[quote name='UncleBob']That was a well thought out post that was very helpful for the conversation at hand.[/QUOTE]

dmaul already said what needed to be said. my 'jesus fucking christ' was in response to you calling it a waste of taxpayer funds, and making references to it being forced out of you at gunpoint.

that's fucking ridiculous. it shows that you don't have any grasp on the importance, breadth, depth, and utility of the census. as far as being forced at gunpoint, get over yourself and your miserable metaphors. can you even converse without using ridiculous metaphors? i bet you can't.
 
Myke - Do you honestly think it's a useful way to spend taxpayer money to ask individuals the same question twice? Honestly? The government already has all the data they should need on how much money I make. They get it by gunpoint as well.

And you need to look up the definition of "metaphor". Saying the government is force isn't a metaphor.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Myke - Do you honestly think it's a useful way to spend taxpayer money to ask individuals the same question twice? Honestly? The government already has all the data they should need on how much money I make. They get it by gunpoint as well.[/quote]

So your ire is caused by one question, such that the census is irrelevant?

And you need to look up the definition of "metaphor". Saying the government is force isn't a metaphor.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='UncleBob']B.) Instead of asking me, men with guns are forcing it out of me, it just doesn't sit well with me.[/QUOTE]

And also in the same post as you deny using metaphor. The very sentence prior, in fact. :rofl:
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Myke - Do you honestly think it's a useful way to spend taxpayer money to ask individuals the same question twice? Honestly? The government already has all the data they should need on how much money I make. They get it by gunpoint as well.

And you need to look up the definition of "metaphor". Saying the government is force isn't a metaphor.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't really cost any more money to ask an extra question on a mail survey. Maybe a fraction of a cent in printing costs from using more ink/toner I suppose.

It would cost more if they had to hire people to maintain a system that would merge in income information from the IRS system into the census data vs. just asking it again and having it on the forms and data entered as part of the census process. It's always easier to ask questions on a survey to get all the info you need vs. leaving stuff out and trying to get it from another source.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I have a feeling that those Kentucky boys thought the feds were really there to snatch up their weed and moonshine.[/QUOTE]

you say that sarcastically, but for all we know thats what happened. one guy in the middle of no where stumbles upon some type of illegal operation could very be what happened to this guy. in fact its far more plausible than he knocked on a door of an anti-goverment nutjob that decided to kill the guy and hang him post mortem.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you say that sarcastically, but for all we know thats what happened. one guy in the middle of no where stumbles upon some type of illegal operation could very be what happened to this guy. in fact its far more plausible than he knocked on a door of an anti-goverment nutjob that decided to kill the guy and hang him post mortem.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that sarcastically at all. There's alot of money to be made and lost in weed, moonshine, and crystal meth and those country boys will stop at nothing to ensure their money is straight. It's no different than the drug cartels in Juarez, wiseguys in Jersey, or Bloods and Crips in L.A. There may be less visible organization (colors, rags, cheap jogging suits, tattos, etc.) but these guys are just as willing to use lethal force to protect their turf/neck of the woods.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened, or at least something close to it. That or he found some anti government compound out in the woods.
 
While I find the death of the worker upsetting, I'd be "happy" (is that the word I want to use?) to find out that it wasn't some crazy anti-census individual that killed him...
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']ya you're right. smart people never murder anyone.[/QUOTE]

Clay County KY 2007-2008 Census Estimates: (national avgs in parentheses)
Median household income: 20,202 (50,007)
Families below poverty: 29.3% (9.8%)
Educational attainment for population 25+:
- Elementary school graduate: 27.9%
- Some high school, did no graduate: 14.9%
- High school diploma/GED: 36.0%
- Some college - 7.4%
- Bachelor's degree or higher - 10.0%

Yeah, troy, we're talking about some grade-A geniuses here. You've evidently never been in southern Kentucky at all, let alone understand that the entire state is poor and rural save for the few cities - and how even these folks are well off compared to the appalachian population.

You're just making shit up at this point so you can ideologically distance yourself from the fact that the easily duped are on your side and taking your side's fearmongering to a ridiculous level. The Glenn Becks are responsible for instilling this degree of fear and distrust, and you simply can't admit that.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Clay County KY 2007-2008 Census Estimates: (national avgs in parentheses)
Median household income: 20,202 (50,007)
Families below poverty: 29.3% (9.8%)
Educational attainment for population 25+:
- Elementary school graduate: 27.9%
- Some high school, did no graduate: 14.9%
- High school diploma/GED: 36.0%
- Some college - 7.4%
- Bachelor's degree or higher - 10.0%

Yeah, troy, we're talking about some grade-A geniuses here. You've evidently never been in southern Kentucky at all, let alone understand that the entire state is poor and rural save for the few cities - and how even these folks are well off compared to the appalachian population.

You're just making shit up at this point so you can ideologically distance yourself from the fact that the easily duped are on your side and taking your side's fearmongering to a ridiculous level. The Glenn Becks are responsible for instilling this degree of fear and distrust, and you simply can't admit that.[/QUOTE]

Wow. So now it's cool to take a particular group of people, average them together, and judge everyone potentially in that group based on the average stats? Good to know...
 
Basically, you took average information regarding a group of people, then made a comment implying that all of the people in that area must fall within the stats you provided.

There could very well be some "Grade-A Geniuses" in Clay County, Kentucky. Even if 99.9% of the people there are ignorant, red neck, elementary school drop outs.
 
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