Why Aren't We Talking About Union Busting?

mykevermin

mykevermin

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In Wisconsin, in Ohio, and in New Jersey.

fuck, in Wisconsin the governor is threatening to send out the National Guard if unions protest.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']In Wisconsin, in Ohio, and in New Jersey.

fuck, in Wisconsin the governor is threatening to send out the National Guard if unions protest.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I don't know why nobody is talking about it. Even local media here in Ohio aren't talking at all about Ohio SB-5. Friends who are union workers are very concerned.

Is it that Unions have been derided as greedy and lazy for so long? Because they can be. Unions can fuck everything up, but they're important to have as a threat, and they're a fucking imperative in the public sector.
 
I would have posted about this yesterday, but I've been pretty busy participating in protests the whole time. I'll be out there again today, too! Scott Walker is trying his damndest to take away unions' collective bargaining rights, but he's encountered quite the backlash from, well... pretty much the entire state. It's been really heartening to see everyone rally to the cause.

Copy-pasted from elsewhere to sum up yesterday's events:

Some highlights:

*Gov. Walker wants to pass legislation taking away state worker's union rights, exempting firefighters and police (the two unions which supported his campaign). Today, firefighters in their uniforms rallied at the state Capitol to support other state unions and got a standing ovation.

*Teachers next to prison guards next to 911 operators next to middle-school students next to university faculty next to workers from the Oscar Meyer plant surrounding the Capitol building and belting out "Living on a Prayer" and "We're Not Gonna Take It."

Great pictures of signs from rally:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/UW-Ma...3176#!/album.php?aid=47255&id=178644088821309

Video: 700 high school students walk out and walk miles to the Capitol in the snow to protest attack on their teachers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPLCFDFWRBk

*Walker refuses to talk to protestors, meet with unions, or appear before the press. He is so unwilling to appear in any situation where he can be called out on his draconian plan that he just gave his official budget speech in a livestock plant rather than the state legislative floor as is traditional.

*Walker announced his budget plan on Fri. Feb. 11 surrounded by armed guards, and said that he has the National Guard standing by in case of work stoppages--ostensibly with regard to prison guards, but with the implication that any strikes or work-slowdowns will be met with violence. Signs held up at today's rally: "Walker like an Egyptian". He is being called "the MiniMubarak": http://www.minimubarak.com/

*Walker says this plan is necessary to avoid layoffs and cutting kids of from Medicaid due to a $137 million dollar budget shortfall. Today, state legislators announce they have discovered that the budget shortfall does not exist. And this is a man who wants to cut off rights and benefits from teachers in WI? He needs someone to check his math. http://www.thenation.com/blog/15860...blic-employees-could-lead-nationwide-campaign

*Public hearing on budget is overflowing with thousands seeking to speak against the bill, and is being called "the public's filibuster. Live streaming coverage here: http://www.channel3000.com/index.html

*Superbowl champs the Green Bay Packers just officially spoke out against the governor's plan:

http://www.weac.org/news_and_public...yers_speak_out_against_governor_s_attack.aspx

*"Scott Walker is a Douchebag" has 6,526 likes on Facebook.

Local News Coverage (there is lots more out there):

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_de45ba12-3935-11e0-9b64-001cc4c002e0.html

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines..._Small_Business_Owners_on_Edge_116204859.html

National News Coverage

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/15/wisconsin_governor_launches_attack_on_public

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/15/wisconsin-state-workers-p_n_823476.html

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...isconsin-ad-wars-and-national-guard-vs-unions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/15/AR2011021504339.html
Click to expand...
 
Kirin, you also forgot that he exempted the state troopers, along with the police and firefighters.

Scott Walker is being incredibly stupid imo. He's ramming this through, without needed debate, just like I felt the healthcare bill was. I hated how that was handled, and I hate how this is being handled. I'd made calls thanking my state senator for opposing what walker is doing, calls to my state representitive asking for them to change their mind on the bill, and walker's # has been busy for the past two days otherwise there would be a few messages there as well.

Oh, and his whole "IM DOING THIS FOR THE KIDS" crap is just that, crap. Federal law mandates that any changes like that cannot be made until 2019. Ugh.
 
Well, yikes. Perhaps we're not talking about it because we all uniformly despise it?

It being the approach, if not the principle of union busting. I'm sure we could find plenty of disagreement there.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Kirin, you also forgot that he exempted the state troopers, along with the police and firefighters.[/QUOTE]

Right, because some of them actually supported him during his campaign. It's disgusting.

Also copy-pasted, because god damn, am I ever busy today organizing people...

This budget bill, which has frightening precedent-setting potential has another buried "treasure" in it. There is a clause which allows decisions about Medicaid to be decided by a committee rather than the legislature.

Wisconsin has something called "Badger Care" which is funded by Medicaid that allows every child in the state free medical care. Medicaid also funds the the care of children with special needs, like autism. This program is touted as one of the most forward-looking in the US. It is expensive, and the Governor is on record as stating that this program needs to be removed.

If this bill is passed, a committee made up of 12 Republican and 4 Democrats will decide the continued future existence of Medicaid in this state. With so many other states having budget crisis, this precedent could lead to Medicaid being lost across the country.
Click to expand...

My city council called its first emergency session in city history yesterday to unanimously pass a resolution opposing the bill. We had at least three different rallies yesterday, with more going on today. Walker's threats to call in the National Guard against protesters have only fired everyone up even more. This situation is crazy.
 
Holy crap. We just put a house under contract to purchase, and it happens to be in Ohio State Senate District 7. Current (brand new) Senator Shannon Jones, who also happens to be the primary sponsor of SB 5. Probably picked her to sponsor because all the way down here in Cincy there aren't terribly many public sector employees, thus she'll get less blowback than a Cbus based Senator.

Time to start making calls.
 
Springboro? That's not even Cincinnati.

;)

The grater Cincinnati metro area is one of the most conservative in the nation historically. Does not surprise me at all that a sponsor would come from one of the suburbs north of the city.

Let me put it this way: that's John Boehner's congressional district.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']Right, because some of them actually supported him during his campaign. It's disgusting.

Also copy-pasted, because god damn, am I ever busy today organizing people...

This budget bill, which has frightening precedent-setting potential has another buried "treasure" in it. There is a clause which allows decisions about Medicaid to be decided by a committee rather than the legislature.

Wisconsin has something called "Badger Care" which is funded by Medicaid that allows every child in the state free medical care. Medicaid also funds the the care of children with special needs, like autism. This program is touted as one of the most forward-looking in the US. It is expensive, and the Governor is on record as stating that this program needs to be removed.

If this bill is passed, a committee made up of 12 Republican and 4 Democrats will decide the continued future existence of Medicaid in this state. With so many other states having budget crisis, this precedent could lead to Medicaid being lost across the country.
Click to expand...

And, of course, the threats to call in the National Guard against protesters are just icing on the cake. This situation is so fucked up.[/QUOTE]

He can't even touch Badger Care without voiding all medicaid contracts with the federal government. Another empty threat.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, yikes. Perhaps we're not talking about it because we all uniformly despise it?

It being the approach, if not the principle of union busting. I'm sure we could find plenty of disagreement there.[/QUOTE]

Well I think we can both agree that there are cases to be made in which companies abuse workers, AND unions abuse their position, and you can argue which is more volatile or which does it more, but to eliminate collective bargaining all together? Just terrible.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Springboro? That's not even Cincinnati.

;)

The grater Cincinnati metro area is one of the most conservative in the nation historically. Does not surprise me at all that a sponsor would come from one of the suburbs north of the city.

Let me put it this way: that's John Boehner's congressional district.[/QUOTE]

Mariemont, ackshully. We won't be in Boehner's district, he's mostly Butler County (West Chester/Hamilton) and further north. We'll be in Jean Schmidt's district. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=412010
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']I would have posted about this yesterday, but I've been pretty busy participating in protests the whole time. I'll be out there again today, too! Scott Walker is trying his damndest to take away unions' collective bargaining rights, but he's encountered quite the backlash from, well... pretty much the entire state. It's been really heartening to see everyone rally to the cause.

Copy-pasted from elsewhere to sum up yesterday's events:[/QUOTE]

To begin on a tangent, I'm always skeptical when students walk out of class in protest. We've all been there and we all know that of those 700 there's maybe 100 that are truly dedicated to the cause and another 600 who just want to miss class for an hour or two. I know there was a threatened walk out at my school regarding a situation with our principal and everyone was talking about walking out, most of them blatantly saying it was just to miss class, until the school threatened detention for anyone that ended up walking out of class. Needless to say the planned walk out dissolved pretty quickly.

Now, back to the matter at hand. In the past I used to take a pretty hard-line stance with unions and not wanting them to even be in existence. Then I spent some time working for Target and really began to see just how much the corporate higher-ups take advantage of unorganized labor. I always felt a little uneasy with the endless amount of union fightin' classes I had to take at Target as soon as I became a supervisor. You best be sure they drilled into our heads that even if unions increased the wages of the workers, it would be gobbled up by their dues/fees anyway and all the other anti-union propaganda.

Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say corporate America takes advantage of the average worker, mostly but I certainly feel as if they use the lack of organization to their advantage. Its laughable that a company such as Target pays their starting employees the federal minimum wage and then advertises it as "competitive pay." Their supervisors begin make roughly the same as starting employees at other retail establishments (particularly unionized retail such as grocery stores I might add...) with a paltry $10-11 per hour. Then they try to tell both groups, "well in this economy you should just be happy you have a job." What good is a job if it doesn't provide you a standard of living?
 
I feel like too much in either direction is bad. Corporate will short change you and toss you out in a sec , Union will lower production speed/quality n raise price. I don't know what the correct balancing is.

Wish unions would ease up on american car manufacturers so that quality can be raised while still being competitively priced. I love me my muscle cars too but not while in the shop or extinct (r.i.p. gto)
 
The reason we arent hearing about this is because the remaining unionized members of the workforce is too low. 30 years of losing that war will do that to you.

[quote name='vic_x51']I feel like too much in either direction is bad. Corporate will short change you and toss you out in a sec , Union will lower production speed/quality n raise price. I don't know what the correct balancing is.

Wish unions would ease up on american car manufacturers so that quality can be raised while still being competitively priced. I love me my muscle cars too but not while in the shop or extinct (r.i.p. gto)[/QUOTE]

You seem to be suggesting that unions play a part in lowering product quality above that of the guy upstairs who is trying to cut corners as much as he can legally get away with, and illegally to the extent that he figure he wont get caught.

On the issue of costs, even in the most labor intensive products, labor isnt a very high percentage of the final price. Its like 10% for cars. That marginally higher cost to the consumer is more than offset by having workers being able to afford things.

So that brings your objections down to production speed, which is not a huge issue to the consumer. On the supply side, not being able to keep up with demand is a problem businesses would kill to have right now.

The main problem that is preventing the competitive pricing you want is our broken trade policy. The number of media entities covering our trade policy make the number covering unions look like the ones covering Egypt. It could very well be the case that the likes of Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell have never even uttered the words trade deficit on the air. Fox could at least bring it up to blame it on Obama or something.
 
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[quote name='perdition(troy']He's ramming this through, without needed debate, just like I felt the healthcare bill was.[/QUOTE]

That was the longest throat shoving ram I've ever experienced, if your feelings represent reality.

[quote name='Quillion']I agree with you.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CkFPyH8v1c

There is power in a factory, power in the land
Power in the hands of a worker
But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand
There is power in a Union

Now the lessons of the past were all learned with workers' blood
The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for
From the cities and the farmlands to trenches full of mud
War has always been the bosses' way, sir

The Union forever defending our rights
Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
With our brothers and our sisters from many far off lands
There is power in a Union

Now I long for the morning that they realise
Brutality and unjust laws can not defeat us
But who'll defend the workers who cannot organise
When the bosses send their lackies out to cheat us?

Money speaks for money, the Devil for his own
Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone
What a comfort to the widow, a light to the child
There is power in a Union

The Union forever defending our rights
Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
With our brothers and our sisters together we will stand
There is power in a Union.
 
Ah yes revoking the right of state workers to unionize, it sure fixed all of Indiana's problems. LOL

I always love how republicans love to bash the unions but ignore the gross incompetence and massive waste that's prevalent throughout state management.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']And that's supposed to be any better?

Goddamn I need to get out of this state.[/QUOTE]

Well... The house is very nice.
 
I certainly miss the cost of living in that part of the US. A person could live hella comfortably on one salary - provided it was a union salary, of course. ;)
 
[quote name='vic_x51']I feel like too much in either direction is bad. Corporate will short change you and toss you out in a sec , Union will lower production speed/quality n raise price. I don't know what the correct balancing is.

Wish unions would ease up on american car manufacturers so that quality can be raised while still being competitively priced. I love me my muscle cars too but not while in the shop or extinct (r.i.p. gto)[/QUOTE]

If that is the case then how is Germany creating so many domestic jobs despite the fact their labor cost is the highest in the world? Even with an extremely high percentage of the workforce belonging to a labor union , Germany still runs the world's largest export surplus (7% of GDP).
 
[quote name='Clak']I can't wait to see bob's response to this.[/QUOTE]

A. He'll run distraction (point fingers like in the last thread)
B. Silence
C. He'll flame endlessly in order to get the thread to tank

Let's play it by ear.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The reason we arent hearing about this is because the remaining unionized members of the workforce is too low. 30 years of losing that war will do that to you.[/QUOTE]

Not only are our numbers too low but we are too unorganized in a broader sense. My local doesn't even make a show of support towards other unions in our industry if they are out of state. I'm in grocery and it was heartbreaking watching co-workers sucking down that Snapple during the Mott's strike. Whenever I saw someone doing that and explained the situation they would always purchase something else but they wouldn't have even known unless an individual (rather than the union proper) told them about it in the first place. Disheartening to say the least.
 
collective bargaining is always on the table, provided the workforce can actually create solidarity.

Walker's folly came by threatening to use the National Guard for labor instead of simply hiring scabs, like Reagan did w/ the air traffic controller's union. That was a horrible gamble.

But if you frame it as "unions cost taxpayers money, so let's hire people who are willing to work," then you'd create the kind of chaos that could defeat unions.

Not that I'd advocate such a thing.

It's heartening to see people fight back against unionized labor, and truly heartening to see so little disagreement on this forum.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's heartening to see people fight back against unionized labor, and truly heartening to see so little disagreement on this forum.[/QUOTE]

does not compute, do you mean disheartening to see people fight against unionized labor? It just doesn't jive with what you've said before.
 
[quote name='nasum']does not compute, do you mean disheartening to see people fight against unionized labor? It just doesn't jive with what you've said before.[/QUOTE]

3 hours of sleep, sorry. What I meant to say what it's heartening to see so many people here supporting the unions fights against the governor in WI.
 
One more thing on the whole Wisconsin issue. We're looking at a deficit of 3.6 billion dollars this upcoming fiscal year. This "bill" will save us $300 million over the next 2 years, $150 million a year. Walker keeps claiming that we need to pass this bill because unions _____ and unions ______, and this is the only way to balance the budget. I'm no mathematician, but $150 million saved next year =\= 3.6 billion.

I'd rather him stop beating around the bush claiming that this is going to balance the state budget (when in essence it's a 4% of the deficit we're running. I'm just wondering who is next to get the shaft, considering we still have 96% of the deficit to take care of.

6 weeks in and already regret my vote. Live and learn I guess.
 
I imagine you elected him precisely to see the state budget balanced. What did you expect (i.e., what are you getting that you don't want, and what aren't you getting that you do want)?

What would you target to cover the remaining 96%, in short?
 
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116381289.html

Madison — Sen. Tim Cullen (D-Janesville) confirmed Thursday that Democrats will boycott the Senate action today on Gov. Walker's budget-repair bill in efforts to block a quorum and keep the measure from passing.
Because 20 senators of the 33-member house are needed to be present to pass a fiscal bill, 19 Republicans will not be enough to pass the budget repair bill without a Democrat present.
"They can't pass this bill if there's not a Democrat in the chamber," Cullen said.
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That's what I'm talking about lol.
 
no worries, I just wanted to make sure that I didn't lose my mind somewhere along the line.

Good lord that JSOnline article is nutty. The comments are even better.
 
Well, to be fair, grading all day yesterday, eyehategod show last night, 3 hours of sleep, and grading all day today.

so if i start to sound like a conservative, it's the sleep dep.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I imagine you elected him precisely to see the state budget balanced. What did you expect (i.e., what are you getting that you don't want, and what aren't you getting that you do want)?

What would you target to cover the remaining 96%, in short?[/QUOTE]

More or less he promised an audit of all state government agencies (to determine what could get slashed, what could stay), was going to merge multiple agencies that did more or less the same thing to save cash, was going to require lobbyists to report any activities they did in regards to trying to get governments contracts/grants. He also was big on shrinking the size of government, and accross the board budget cuts.

Tom Barrett was his opponent, and when it comes down to it my vote for Walker was a vote against Barrett. Barrett ran Milwaukee into the ground, and was buddy buddy with our last governor, Jim Doyle, who did a great job (of trashing the state budget).

Lesser of two evils I suppose. Sigh.
 
Ah. But instead of doing what he promised, he just went full speed ahead into partisan assaults in the name of fiscal responsibility.

Yeesh.
 
Untitled.jpg
 
Well... That's one way you could go with coverage.

They probably headlined it that way because the DEMOCRATS DON'T CARE ABOUT FISCAL DISCIPLINE headline is a little played out.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, to be fair, grading all day yesterday, eyehategod show last night, 3 hours of sleep, and grading all day today.

so if i start to sound like a conservative, it's the sleep dep.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, you won't have to deal with me for awhile again after this topic runs its course lol.
 
Goddamn that's a horrible way to frame it. At first I thought that was from FoxNation.com, FNC's other website that is dumbed down to talk radio format.
 
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