why copyright law is just another corporate tool

D

Diosoth

CAGiversary!
To start this example, here are pictures of two factory-sealed games that I bought new at Toys R Us.

sradventure.jpg

sonchron-1.jpg


To prove it, here's a photo of the purchase receipt

receipt.jpg



So... I have two legit games, both purchased at retail. Am I legally allowed to leave them sealed, in collector condition and play ROMs of them on my flash card? I should be, I bought copies of them.

Hell no I'm not allowed. Nintendo says it's 100% illegal(even though they don't make the laws... not in the US anyway. Japan is a different matter). The law says I AM entitled to a backup copy, but it has to be made from the copy I personally own.

This is the same for any media. You are not supposed to rip MP3s from your legally purchased CDs to put onto an MP3 player. You are not supposed to make a VHS backup of your DVD films.

Furthermore, you don't EVER buy a CD, DVD or video game. The law says you are buying a license to use what's on the disc, nothing more. If the company says you can no longer use it, you must stop using it and you do not get a refund. This is largely why game companies hate used game sales and why we're seeing the switch to online distribution. If you buy a used game made 15+ years ago, you effectively circumvent the license. No doubt Nintendo would love to round up all those old NES carts and crush them to kill competition with the Virtual Console.

Sony should have a field day with the PSP Go. All the games are downlaod only, they do NOT offer a means for you to legally transfer the content of your UMD games to the device... and thanks to that license stuff, they can effectively disable games when they want with no compensation.

Epic Games president Mike Capps has been big on this. Not a surprise from an ex-military greedy pig. He wants to sell incomplete games. You can only downlaod the rest of the game with a code you get when you buy at retail and if you buy the game used, you must pay them money to download the remainder.

Running With Scissors CEO Vince Desi is, so far, the only game company exec to openly support the sale of used games. He's the ONLY one thus ar who has gone on record supporting the customer. Vince even allowed me to post his comments in a quick Youtube video, which made the front news page at the RWS website

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnqYvMvKIgU

Then there's David Jaffe, who... well, sorta, kinda defends used game sales. But not too strongly. He's too much of a limp wrist to actually defend it 100%, probably doesn't want to offend his co-workers in the game industry.

Used games are used games. The copies are out there. It is NOT the same as piracy. The number of copies does not increase, copies merely transfer hands. The company has already been paid for that copy. Auto manufacturers do not get a cut if you sell your car to someone in a private sale. Why shoudl the game companies expect different?

Then there's DRM. A system designed to combat piracy, but all it does is put heavy restrictions on paying customers. If anything, DRM is such an insult it's actually encouraged piracy.

You know what? I'll let this speak for itself. A comic I found online but the same applies

steal_this_comic.png


It's no wonder I stopped supporting the corporations. They treat their paying customers like garbage. I'd rather be a filthy pirate. It's better than being whipped and beaten around for being legit.
 
If I may take a little liberty and continue the thought, copyright has been an absolute disaster for innovation in virtually every area. There's a saying around business schools now: You can't think of anything that doesn't already have 6 patents and/or copyrights around it. RIM goes out and make a great device. They lose 3/5ths of a BILLION dollars because some douche patented "a method for wireless email". They never even tried to make it.

They're like cyber squatters except they punish innovation. Forget taxes, regulations, whatever. You wanna save capitalism? Abolish patents. Restrict copyright to 15 years.

I can't even think about this for long or I can feel my body heating up I get so pissed off. I've goddamn lost sleep over this more than once. Colleges mandate "digital responsibility" to explain to students (who understand way better than the admins do) about media rights then forces their students to give a copy of their work to a non-affiliated private company (that the school pays!) that charges for access to it. Patents that were once built on by inventors now stay away because they'll get their face sued off. It's almost like the sign you've made it when you get sued for 90% of your company by some prick patent trolls that sue only in East Texas (the judge there is the most "sympathetic" in the US). Sony intentionally tries to steal music from an artist, even pressing 6400 CDs. So based on the Jammie Thomas RIAA case, Sony owes the guy $4,094,080,000. WHERE'S THE SUPPORT FOR THE ARTIST RIAA?

Investing in lawsuits actually outperforms the market.

Second Degree Murder and Six Other Crimes Cheaper than Pirating Music

ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
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iTunes songs are DRM-free, hombre.

And you flagrantly contradict your own argument with nary a sentence in between your contradiction:

The law says I AM entitled to a backup copy, but it has to be made from the copy I personally own.

This is the same for any media. You are not supposed to rip MP3s from your legally purchased CDs to put onto an MP3 player. You are not supposed to make a VHS backup of your DVD films.
Click to expand...

Jesus.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']And you flagrantly contradict your own argument with nary a sentence in between your contradiction:[/QUOTE]
I would humbly suggest that in this case, the copyright holders are doing everything in their power (including millions in propaganda) to perpetuate just such a contradiction as found in the gentleman's statement.

Money quote:
the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer.

The industry's lawyer in the case, Ira Schwartz, argues in a brief filed earlier this month that the MP3 files Howell made on his computer from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" of copyrighted recordings.
Click to expand...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html

The Howell case ended well for Howell, but the purpose of the litigation isn't to recover, it's to scare the shit out of users and convince them that the business model the RIAA companies want is the only legal way to use media. And it's working. The OP is an example.

And sure. iTunes sells no-DRM music. Course they lock iTunes so it won't sync with anything but their own hardware, but I guess that's another story.
 
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[quote name='speedracer']I would humbly suggest that in this case, the copyright holders are doing everything in their power (including millions in propaganda) to perpetuate just such a contradiction as found in the gentleman's statement.

Money quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html[/QUOTE]

I'll be devil's advocate. A lot of it depends on the computer. Technically, a computer with a Quad Pro is self-aware and another person. So, moving the CD file to the computer's hard drive is distribution and a copyright violation.

Do you think that is their mentality?
 
Well, it depends on the rider I guess. I wouldn't really call a Quad Pro a real person. If it ain't on two wheels, it ain't a real person.
QuadProSM.jpg
 
It's perfectly legal to rip a CD to store the music on a digital player. On the other hand, if the media has some type of copy protection (which technically means it isn't even a CD) and you break that protection, you've violated the DMCA.

Not taking sides, just pointing it out.
 
If we were talking about food or water or such, then, perhaps, I'd see your point.

But you're talking about video games and music. Luxuries. You have no right to a luxury and have no need for it. It's a "want".

So, if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.
 
I don't know about CD's but copying or ripping a DVD IS technically illegal. Because you are breaking DRM to do so. It doesn't matter if you own the DVD.

Silly, I know.

I do agree, however, that even the most moral person would have a hell of a time navigating copyright laws and rules.
 
[quote name='Diosoth']It's no wonder I stopped supporting the corporations. They treat their paying customers like garbage. I'd rather be a filthy pirate. It's better than being whipped and beaten around for being legit.[/QUOTE]

:applause: This is exactly why a lot of people are pirates. They don't want to have to deal with copyright laws, or insane prices or ridiculous corporations. If these big companies would stop fucking their customers up the ass, they might actually convince a few pirates to come back to the good side. Hopefully they'll catch on one day. :roll:

(Although, I must admit, Amazon and iTunes are now DRM free.)
 
It still doesn't justify pirating.

It's either accept it and buy the products. Or boycott them by not buying. Don't get stuff illegally and try to rationalize it.

I have no problems with CDs, DVDs/Blu Rays or video games, so I buy them. I also buy e-books. The DRM sucks, but I just buy stuff I'll only read once so I treat it like a rental that saves me dealing with the hassles of the library.

On the other hand, I've never bought MP3 or digital movie. Don't need digital movies, and I'm fine ripping my CDs--which has been held as legal regardless of the RIAAs wishes.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It still doesn't justify pirating.

It's either accept it and buy the products. Or boycott them by not buying. Don't get stuff illegally and try to rationalize it.

I have no problems with CDs, DVDs/Blu Rays or video games, so I buy them. I also buy e-books. The DRM sucks, but I just buy stuff I'll only read once so I treat it like a rental that saves me dealing with the hassles of the library.

On the other hand, I've never bought MP3 or digital movie. Don't need digital movies, and I'm fine ripping my CDs--which has been held as legal regardless of the RIAAs wishes.[/QUOTE]

Nobody ever said that it justified pirating. I just said that it could be a reason people do it.

Also, if you rip a CD to your MP3 player regardless of the law made by the RIAA, how are you any different from a pirate? It doesn't matter the extremity, you're still breaking the law.
 
The courts have ruled that it's perfectly ok to rip CDs for personal use--the RIAA just doesn't like it. But they've lost those cases so it's not breaking the law. j The RIAA tried to make that a law by suing etc., but they lost those cases as the courts ruled ripping cds for personal use fail under the fair use clause.

The only time it's been upheld is if their is copy protection that must be hacked to rip it--which is why it has been ruled illegal to make digital copies of DVDs and Blu Rays which all have DRM on them which has to be hacked to copy/rip.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So if the courts had ruled that ripping CD's was illegal, would you still do it, dmaul?[/QUOTE]

Probably not. Would probably spurn me to finally start buying mp3s (now that they're DRM free on all the stores) rather than CDs. Running out of space on my CD rack again as is.

Breaking laws isn't the way to protest them. Boycotting and writing your congressmen, organizing protests etc. is the proper response.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
Breaking laws isn't the way to protest them. Boycotting and writing your congressmen, organizing protests etc. is the proper response.[/QUOTE]

Cuz that will get us some where... :cough:EA, activision, etc.:cough:
 
Good call OP

Although at least the video game industry still has a few indepedent companies and real competition. In fact, Blu Rays and physical media console games are the only way I like to buy content anymore. You have to be damn careful with the physical medium but at least you can enjoy what you bought for a reasonable time.

The copyright laws surrounding the sale of music was designed to strip the consumer of their rights and hold them thrall to a Byzantine system of rules designed and paid for by corporations and their political lackeys. The entertainment cartels should be driven to seek higher profits, instead they have been driven by fear of competition and adversity to risk.

People say consumer dissatisfaction hasn't done a damn thing but I beg to differ. You literally could not give me DRM'd music, to me it is worse then useless. Apparently many other consumers agree, although they have been kicking and screaming all the way the labels have finally begun to offer DRM-less music and I would like to think it was partly brought on by market forces. We could sure do alot better (down with the Mickey Mouse laws!) but it's a step in the right direction.
 
I wish the "don't but it then" idea worked, but lets be honest, unless there was some mass protest, it isn't going to do shit. I don't know about many of you, but if i refused to buy things from a company or industry i disagreed with, i'd have a pretty boring life.

There is this justification for piracy. If any given company loses too much money to piracy and maybe (i can only hope) wakes up to why, they might take action to win back legitimate buyers. Sure some people pirate becuase they're too cheap to buy something, but that isn't the only reason.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I wish the "don't but it then" idea worked, but lets be honest, unless there was some mass protest, it isn't going to do shit. I don't know about many of you, but if i refused to buy things from a company or industry i disagreed with, i'd have a pretty boring life.

There is this justification for piracy. If any given company loses too much money to piracy and maybe (i can only hope) wakes up to why, they might take action to win back legitimate buyers. Sure some people pirate becuase they're too cheap to buy something, but that isn't the only reason.[/QUOTE]

The only problem with that statement is that you start getting into arguements with pie-in-the-sky idealists who cannot fathom that our corporate legal system is one in which the big corporations hold all the cards. That and the whole getting sued into oblivion thing.

Besides with internet radio there really isn't a need to own music. Songs in your library are more convenient but even without them you can still usually find something you want to listen to.

Big labels do not do anything out of the goodness of their hearts, time-and-again they have taken hostile action against musicians, songwriters, and consumers in the name of their bottom line. There is only one reason why the big labels would offer DRM-less music - it was affecting their revenues. This must mean there is a sizable group of people were like me - we didn't want to pay for the privelege of renting music until our computer died or the service was made obselete.

Ironically I don't feel the same will apply to downloadable console games. They're tied to a console, which means that by the time the console is obsolete you're probably going to be done with the game anyway (my condolences if you bought a RROD 360). Besides buying a game on a console is such a great experience and you get so much bang for your buck I don't mind that it's a glorified rental.
 
I barely even listen to music unless it's on my digital player. In the car i usually have NPR on these days. Local stations just run things into the ground by constantly playing the same stuff over and over.

Digital distribution scares me the most, despite having bought many things on steam. At any given time they could revoke your access to something you've paid for. At least with a physical copy i know they can't stop me from using it.
 
There really needs to be some single DRM issuer. Perhaps even the government? (You'll never hear me say that again)

It's absolutely ridiculous and unethical that I can buy a piece of media from several different sources to work on various different devices and I have to pay each time I do it.

I also still have not figured out why someone has not yet started selling immediate downloads of mp3's AND shipped CD's for the price of one. It's silly that you have to wait for your CD to come in the mail so YOU can rip it.

If there is a satan, I'm pretty sure DRM is the best evidence he exists.
 
Copyright law is too draconian. There shouldn't be any problems with people selling their legitimately bought copies of a game or music or movie. And you should be able to make as many backup copies as you want for personal use, whether it's to keep your original scratch-less or have a copy for the DVD player in the car for the kids.

Also, they've extended the length of copyrights much too much. I like the rule that when the creator dies a work reverts to the public domain. That way the creator profits from his work during his life, but three generations later they aren't profiting from what their ancestor wrote. Shorting the public domain like this also hurts innovation and education.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Technically, a computer with a Quad Pro is self-aware and another person.[/QUOTE]

wtf is wrong with you
 
Speaking strictly in a legal sense, it will obviously then vary country to country. In the US, a complication to this is the DMCA anti-circumvention act, that for example on DVDs wherein perhaps making a back-up copy of a copyrighted material would be legal otherwise, would be illegal given you'd have to circumvent the encryption on the disc.

While I definitely for strong consumer rights with regard to copyright, there is still a "little-guy" benefit to the existence of the concept, as otherwise, the corporations could abuse their power much moreso by exploiting a no-name for profit.
 
[quote name='Diosoth']
Furthermore, you don't EVER buy a CD, DVD or video game. The law says you are buying a license to use what's on the disc, nothing more. If the company says you can no longer use it, you must stop using it and you do not get a refund.
[/QUOTE]

The law says nothing like that. But thanks for the post, good way to bring up these issues.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']

I also still have not figured out why someone has not yet started selling immediate downloads of mp3's AND shipped CD's for the price of one. It's silly that you have to wait for your CD to come in the mail so YOU can rip it.

[/QUOTE]

Many small bands/small labels do this from their own websites. I love it because you can keep the CD sealed and have the songs.
 
[quote name='ToadallyAwesome']Many small bands/small labels do this from their own websites. I love it because you can keep the CD sealed and have the songs.[/QUOTE]

Really? I guess I will have to look into that. I wonder if Roadrunner does it, most bands I like are on that label.
 
It's all Obama's fault. His socialist fascist agenda is taking over this country and next Sony will be on his 'enemies list'. It's all very Nixonian, you see.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Really? I guess I will have to look into that. I wonder if Roadrunner does it, most bands I like are on that label.[/QUOTE]

Roadrunner is notorious for being unfriendly toward its artists and customers. I highly doubt you'll get anything like that from them.
 
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