Why didnt you see The Golden Compass?

[quote name='the ender']You don't really have a point here. Any movie that portrays a group or it's figureheads in a positive light would be just fine with the members of that group. Any movie that does otherwise (i.e. mocks groups or it's members/leaders, make them look bad) would of course be shunned by that group. That is true of any group, be it Christians, blacks, Jews, Catholics, Mexicans, etc. Does this surprise you?

I don't think the "competition" is the point of contention. Try understanding the complete emotional/spiritual investment that some religious people put into their faith. Then imagine a widely publicized movie is released that, at least on a symbolic level, speaks out against that faith. It violates everything that you have based your life around. It's understandable that people are getting upset, once you understand where they are coming from.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but it's pretty clear you're depending on what other people told you the movie is about for your information; the only message in the movie is "Authority figures who try to keep you ignorant are not to be respected." If that's somehow incompatible with one's faith, something went wrong long before Hollywood got involved.
 
[quote name='trq']No offense, but it's pretty clear you're depending on what other people told you the movie is about for your information; the only message in the movie is "Authority figures who try to keep you ignorant are not to be respected." If that's somehow incompatible with one's faith, something went wrong long before Hollywood got involved.[/quote]

I'll refer back to this article yet again: http://www.kcm.org/goldencompass.php

My "dependence" is upon the author himself's words. That article contains numerous quotes that underscore Mr. Pullman's intention that his story's characters and plot be reminiscent of his own atheistic beliefs. Additionally, the article gives links and references to the whole context of Mr. Pullman's interview, so it's not "other people", but the man himself whose words I am basing my argument off of.

Furthermore, I can completely agree that an authority figure who attempts to keep you ignorant should be ignored. However, Mr. Pullman sees all organized religion in that way, and that is an unfair assumption to make, much less to put into a book that millions will read. The standard person may not be able to differ between religious figures who might try to keep you ignorant, and those who would do no such thing. Mr. Pullman paints all religion in that light, and his impressionable young readers/viewers are likely unable to make that distinction, rather drawing an overall sense of rebellion from the story.
 
The Christians have successfully deflected another blow in the War on Christmas. What will those wily athiests and their Hollywood propogandists think of next?
 
I guess I'm one of the few others that actually saw it.

Liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Definitely more then the crap Eragon was.

Never read the books so I can't complain about that stuff and couldn't careless for any religion aspect of it.

And I have to agree with the earlier post about the "I'm not 12" stuff. Come on, how does playing GH 3 all day make you anymore grown up?
 
[quote name='the ender']You don't really have a point here. Any movie that portrays a group or it's figureheads in a positive light would be just fine with the members of that group. Any movie that does otherwise (i.e. mocks groups or it's members/leaders, make them look bad) would of course be shunned by that group. That is true of any group, be it Christians, blacks, Jews, Catholics, Mexicans, etc. Does this surprise you?

I don't think the "competition" is the point of contention. Try understanding the complete emotional/spiritual investment that some religious people put into their faith. Then imagine a widely publicized movie is released that, at least on a symbolic level, speaks out against that faith. It violates everything that you have based your life around. It's understandable that people are getting upset, once you understand where they are coming from.[/quote]

If a simple movie causes someone to have some religious breakdown, then they have other problems. If you faith can't withstand seeing a damn movie, you're faith isn't very strong. I seriously doubt a damn kids movie is going to cause the world's Christians to become Atheists.

I don't remember any protests from Atheists when Narnia came out, because we don't give a damn. It's just a fucking movie.
 
[quote name='the ender']I'll refer back to this article yet again: http://www.kcm.org/goldencompass.php

My "dependence" is upon the author himself's words. That article contains numerous quotes that underscore Mr. Pullman's intention that his story's characters and plot be reminiscent of his own atheistic beliefs. Additionally, the article gives links and references to the whole context of Mr. Pullman's interview, so it's not "other people", but the man himself whose words I am basing my argument off of.

Furthermore, I can completely agree that an authority figure who attempts to keep you ignorant should be ignored. However, Mr. Pullman sees all organized religion in that way, and that is an unfair assumption to make, much less to put into a book that millions will read. The standard person may not be able to differ between religious figures who might try to keep you ignorant, and those who would do no such thing. Mr. Pullman paints all religion in that light, and his impressionable young readers/viewers are likely unable to make that distinction, rather drawing an overall sense of rebellion from the story.[/quote]

If you want to look at religion at its core, it's all about assumptions too.The Assumption that what that religion states is true. Christians assume that everything in the bible is true. Considering that none of them were there to see it or have verifiable proof, isn't that kind of the wrong assumption to make?
 
I saw it, it wasn't awful. Would've been nice if the ending actually resolved anything (or, more pointedly, if they'd used the book's ending), but it was entertaining at least.

And I'm not really sure why the film would generate any controversy, as the more overtly anti-Catholic (and anti-religious, for that matter) sentiment of the novel has been excised in favor of a flat indictment of authority for authority's sake combined with a bit of mysticism.
 
[quote name='the ender']I'll refer back to this article yet again: http://www.kcm.org/goldencompass.php

My "dependence" is upon the author himself's words. That article contains numerous quotes that underscore Mr. Pullman's intention that his story's characters and plot be reminiscent of his own atheistic beliefs. Additionally, the article gives links and references to the whole context of Mr. Pullman's interview, so it's not "other people", but the man himself whose words I am basing my argument off of.

Furthermore, I can completely agree that an authority figure who attempts to keep you ignorant should be ignored. However, Mr. Pullman sees all organized religion in that way, and that is an unfair assumption to make, much less to put into a book that millions will read. The standard person may not be able to differ between religious figures who might try to keep you ignorant, and those who would do no such thing. Mr. Pullman paints all religion in that light, and his impressionable young readers/viewers are likely unable to make that distinction, rather drawing an overall sense of rebellion from the story.[/QUOTE]

First off, WTF is Superkid Academy? That's some creepy stuff. Do they take in wayward mutants or something?

Seriously though, you're not using the author's words. You didn't link to your essays on a book you've personally read, did you? You linked to a secondary source; a website for an organization with a specific interest, goals, and lens with which they view the world. You're using someone else's interpretation of the author's words. For example: "The main characters are hunted, kidnapped by the 'Church.' They seek to destroy Lyra and Will and others"? That's about as accurate as the descriptions of Grand Theft Auto that show up in congressional hearings; "It's a prostitution simulator that teaches kids how to kill cops" and the like. The fictional organization performs no religious role whatsoever. They're simply an authority. By that standard, Star Wars is anti-religious (heck, one could even interpret the book's villains as the pro-evolution scientific establishment if you really wanted, and didn't take Pullman's personal views into account). Perhaps we should ask George Lucas what his private religious practices are and decide whether to view the entertainment he makes based on that. Or maybe that way lies foolishness. Further, surely I can't be the only one who finds it ironic that religious groups angry about a book supposedly condemning organized religion for trying to keep people ignorant ... try to boycott the movie and warn people not to read the book?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']If a simple movie causes someone to have some religious breakdown, then they have other problems. If you faith can't withstand seeing a damn movie, you're faith isn't very strong. I seriously doubt a damn kids movie is going to cause the world's Christians to become Atheists.

I don't remember any protests from Atheists when Narnia came out, because we don't give a damn. It's just a fucking movie.[/quote]

Again, you're firing blanks here. The issue is not this movie is causing anyone to have a "religious breakdown", nor is the strength of my faith at question here. Furthermore, no one asserts that this movie will turn the world's Christians into athiests.

The concern is that there are people who may be swayed by the intentions of this movie, more specifically our own children who are impressionable and open to influences like mainstream media. The article I cited is merely a warning to fellow Christians to avoid this type of propoganda.

Of course athiests didn't care when Narnia came out; you have nothing to lose (or so you believe). If you are right and Christianity is wrong, then nothing is lost. People may have spent their lives devoted to a falsehood, but in the end, they lost nothing because there is no heaven or hell so what difference did it make what they did in life. However, if you are wrong and the Bible is truth, then all those who don't believe are headed for a sad eternity. Hopefully you can understand why we as Christians might not want to see people (even those like you who lash out at us) go to a place like hell. So yes, we care when movies are released that we believe might end up negatively influencing others' eternal paths.

[quote name='JolietJake']If you want to look at religion at its core, it's all about assumptions too.The Assumption that what that religion states is true. Christians assume that everything in the bible is true. Considering that none of them were there to see it or have verifiable proof, isn't that kind of the wrong assumption to make?[/quote]

You call it assumptions, we call it faith. The title matters not, nor does your opinion of it. Our faith is not just an assumption though. I've seen miracles and works of God in my life. You'll call them delusions or coincidences, and I'll disagree. Blah blah blah.
 
[quote name='trq']
Seriously though, you're not using the author's words. You didn't link to your essays on a book you've personally read, did you?[/quote]

Seriously, I am. Since when must a person write their own essay on a book to quote the author's words concerning said book? His words are his words, I don't need to read his book to cite what he says about it.

Bottom line: My family will not be seeing this movie, the same as many Christian families. We have every right to not see it, and we have every right to tell others not to see it. We have every right to consider the writings in light of the writer, and we have every right to do what we feel is wisest concerning the upbringing of our children. You, as well, have every right to disagree with everything I am saying. Stalemate.
 
Other - I could give a crap, plus bad reviews = Not worth $10 and dealing with retards in movies theaters.
 
Well, my girlfriend would only either see this or Sweeney Todd, so put me down for "had other movies to see."

None of my friends had seen it, and I don't know anyone that wants to. The religious issue is a bit off the table for me because the movie doesn't seem interesting enough to see in the first place. Overall, I'm not too worried about this movie causing problems if not too many people saw it. I'm Catholic, but I'm not afraid of this movie turning kids into atheists.
 
[quote name='JimmieMac']I'm not a 13 year old British girl.[/QUOTE]

Good job. Now we'll never get Strell on "To Catch a Predator."
 
[quote name='the ender']Again, you're firing blanks here. The issue is not this movie is causing anyone to have a "religious breakdown", nor is the strength of my faith at question here. Furthermore, no one asserts that this movie will turn the world's Christians into athiests.

The concern is that there are people who may be swayed by the intentions of this movie, more specifically our own children who are impressionable and open to influences like mainstream media. The article I cited is merely a warning to fellow Christians to avoid this type of propoganda.

Of course athiests didn't care when Narnia came out; you have nothing to lose (or so you believe). If you are right and Christianity is wrong, then nothing is lost. People may have spent their lives devoted to a falsehood, but in the end, they lost nothing because there is no heaven or hell so what difference did it make what they did in life. However, if you are wrong and the Bible is truth, then all those who don't believe are headed for a sad eternity. Hopefully you can understand why we as Christians might not want to see people (even those like you who lash out at us) go to a place like hell. So yes, we care when movies are released that we believe might end up negatively influencing others' eternal paths.



You call it assumptions, we call it faith. The title matters not, nor does your opinion of it. Our faith is not just an assumption though. I've seen miracles and works of God in my life. You'll call them delusions or coincidences, and I'll disagree. Blah blah blah.[/quote]

Why would Christians need to avoid the "propoganda" if it would have no effect on their faith? The truly faithful should be able to take their faith being questioned without having any effect on their own faith. Children i'll give you, but adults no.
.
I think i understand it now though it's ok to expose children to your propaganda, just not anyone else's.


Btw, don't pull the holier than though routine on me. I grew up in a southern baptist family, i know the tricks of the trade so to speak.
 
[quote name='the ender']Seriously, I am. Since when must a person write their own essay on a book to quote the author's words concerning said book? His words are his words, I don't need to read his book to cite what he says about it.

Bottom line: My family will not be seeing this movie, the same as many Christian families. We have every right to not see it, and we have every right to tell others not to see it. We have every right to consider the writings in light of the writer, and we have every right to do what we feel is wisest concerning the upbringing of our children. You, as well, have every right to disagree with everything I am saying. Stalemate.[/QUOTE]

Anyone can quote. It's the The Superkid Academy's interpretation of those quotes that's at issue. You might very well agree with them, but as an intelligent, thinking adult, you might not. You wouldn't know, because you've neither read the book nor seen the movie. Again, you're right: everyone can have an opinion. It's informed opinions that have value, though. Certainly if I was going to sit here and tell people not to read the Bible, you'd -- at the very least -- expect me to have read it myself, wouldn't you? I certainly hope so. Now I'm not comparing this book/movie to a holy text (frankly, I thought the movie was weaksauce anyway), but I still tend to think it's a good idea for people to investigate things for themselves rather than taking someone else's word for it. I think that the people who are so against the book/movie aren't doing that makes the point they're so afraid of better than the book/movie ever could.

OT, I thought your take on the theological "prisoner's dilemma" was interesting ("If we're wrong, no big deal; if you're wrong ..."), but missed some possibilities. I'd happily discuss the matter over PM, if you're at all interested.
 
[quote name='trq']Anyone can quote. It's the The Superkid Academy's interpretation of those quotes that's at issue. You might very well agree with them, but as an intelligent, thinking adult, you might not. You wouldn't know, because you've neither read the book nor seen the movie. Again, you're right: everyone can have an opinion. It's informed opinions that have value, though. Certainly if I was going to sit here and tell people not to read the Bible, you'd -- at the very least -- expect me to have read it myself, wouldn't you? I certainly hope so. Now I'm not comparing this book/movie to a holy text (frankly, I thought the movie was weaksauce anyway), but I still tend to think it's a good idea for people to investigate things for themselves rather than taking someone else's word for it. I think that the people who are so against the book/movie aren't doing that makes the point they're so afraid of better than the book/movie ever could.

OT, I thought your take on the theological "prisoner's dilemma" was interesting ("If we're wrong, no big deal; if you're wrong ..."), but missed some possibilities. I'd happily discuss the matter over PM, if you're at all interested.[/quote]

There really isn't a "Superkid Academy" interpretation factor here. They cite his quotes, and provide links to the interviews in which he made those quotes. Now they do make some statements about those quotes based on their (and my) beliefs, but the quotes themselves are intact and untampered with. I read the links, and in doing so, read the author's take on what he himself wrote and what he intended it to represent.

See, I don't need to read the book or watch the movie. The author's beliefs and his intent on injecting his writings with said beliefs are reason enough for me to avoid them. You speak as though I am uninformed because I myself didn't read the book. If I am getting the author's take on the book/movie, then I feel confident that I understand the gist of the story.

Likewise with your Bible analogy. If you are bashing the Bible without having read it, but you did have access to God's quotes concerning the Bible (which are in Bible, circular logic I know, but I'm making a point), then I'd say you were well-informed enough to make an assertion about the Bible's content. Know the author, and you know the book.

I welcome your PMs. :)
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Why would Christians need to avoid the "propoganda" if it would have no effect on their faith? The truly faithful should be able to take their faith being questioned without having any effect on their own faith. Children i'll give you, but adults no.
.
I think i understand it now though it's ok to expose children to your propaganda, just not anyone else's.


Btw, don't pull the holier than though routine on me. I grew up in a southern baptist family, i know the tricks of the trade so to speak.[/quote]

Who said that the movie could have no effect on a believer's faith? On the contrary, that is the very reason that I and my family will not see this movie. I am not of the opinion that I am unswayable or invincible; no one is. Rather, it is my devotion to my faith and my desire to see it flourish that I avoid such things. Just like a wise husband should avoid sexual temptation (porn, flirting with co-workers) to protect his marriage, I do what I can and should to protect my relationship with the Father.

"I think i understand it now though it's ok to expose children to your propaganda, just not anyone else's."

Well, yea. :lol: Again, if my "propoganda" is wrong, then the only effect is that the kids learned some good morals and had a false belief in a non-existent God. Big deal. If secular "propoganda" is correct and wins out, then the effect is an eternal separation from God.

Sadly, I've heard many people who were "raised in Southern Baptist families" that are now athiest, or at the least far from God. Unfortunately, the SB atmosphere lends itself to that outcome. Judgemental, hypocritical, gossipy, and inconsistent are all traits of a typical Southern Baptist. Indeed, it's typical of many people on the Bible belt. Sorry for your bad beginnings. The end can be better though.
 
I know Hitler was a douche. I don't need to read "Mein Kampf" to discover that for myself. At the same time, reading "Mein Kampf" isn't going to change my opinion on him or his ideas, it's just going to be a waste of time (unless I'm writing a graduate thesis on Hitler or something).
 
[quote name='Venkman']A quick google search shows plenty of Catholic League stuff condemning the left behind books (even on their own site), so I don't know where you get your info. Perhaps when the Catholic League attacks the Left Behind series, it gets less coverage in the news because, I don't know, the books and Mike Seaver movies SUCK MONSTER BALLS? ;)[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Hmm: who to blame: TCL for not pushing it enough, or the media for not running with it? Can't well say I know enough on that front, but thanks for the heads up.

[quote name='the ender']Mykev, I've a lot of respect for you, but your argument here is unfounded.

For your consideration: http://www.kcm.org/goldencompass.php

Therein are most of the complaints that Christians have with this movie, and with the author. Note that the bottom of the article sites all of it's sources, so you can read Phillip Pullman's quotes for yourself. Your claim that the Catholic church is relying on innuendo and implications is false, as the article will show you that Mr. Pullman intended those meanings for those characters/plot points.[/quote]

At only one point in that page you list above was the book cited, and the citation listed next to the quote was a book that quoted Pullman's book. Moreover, the remainder of that page is filled with interviews and Q&A with Pullman. Again, not the book, and not the movie.

There are other complaints (e.g., the title "His Dark Matters" being oppositional to the metaphor of God/Christ as "light") that are just silly and there for the sake of building a case. They can be equally applied to just about any bit of literature (i.e., "The Color Purple" mentions a color that is a dark hue, and is thus a metaphor for darkness, which, being oppositional to light, etc., etc., etc.).

I don't see a case for the book being a polemic on Christians. It's still innuendo at best (despite Pullman saying things about "Satan figures" in the book - no quote suggests that he's point to his trilogy as an out-and-out polemic on Christians. Using "Satan figure" could easily be a metaphor, no different than the equally bothersome use of the phrase "nazi" by some. Saying "my teacher is a nazi," for example, doesn't always mean she's a member of the German National Socialist Party. Perhaps she's just doing something really mean). IMO, of course.

As far as the Left Behind books go, if my memory serves me correctly, the Pope was either duped into following the Antichrist, or he was put into office after becoming a follower of the Antichrist. Either way, I believe the intention was to display that Biblically the Antichrist will rise to power and convince many that are in power to side with him. I don't think the implication is that Catholicism or the Pope are evil or at fault.
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In the series, the Pope was raptured, because he covertly refuted his own Catholicism for the premillenialist whatsamajig that evangelicals adore. His salvation was contingent, then, upon repenting from Catholicism. It's clear to me.

Personally, I am not a Catholic, and I have my own gripes with many of their practices.
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Eh, I don't really like any other Christians, so fair's fair. My only trump cards are "we get to drink a lot," and "we were here first." But, y'know, all in fun. ;)

I also do not see the merit in publicly denouncing a movie, as people will watch what the want to watch and the outcryings only serve to stir up controversy that increases box office revenues. I do, however, see the merit in speaking to your fellow Christians about why they might want to keep their children away from a certain movie, in order to protect them from ungodly ideals.
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Which would be pretty much anything except for VeggieTales.
 
[quote name='the ender']
you have nothing to lose (or so you believe). If you are right and Christianity is wrong, then nothing is lost.[/QUOTE]
The loss is the children who are denied access to knowledge which, in turn, distorts/molds their way of thinking. I can only hope that they seek out answers for themselves once they are out from under the protective/oppressive wings of their parents.
 
It just didn't look that interesting to me. I honestly don't even go to the theaters for movies I want to see though, so its not like I'm the best person to ask. I'd rather save $8+ dollars and just buy it on HD-DVD/Blu-ray when it comes out based on what my friends who went to see it tell me about it.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']The loss is the children who are denied access to knowledge which, in turn, distorts/molds their way of thinking. I can only hope that they seek out answers for themselves once they are out from under the protective/oppressive wings of their parents.[/quote]

That's overly dramatic. Keeping your children from watching certain movies in no way represents a significant deficiency in useful or relevant knowledge, and does not impair them in any way except maybe in the area of Trivial Pursuit skills.
 
[quote name='trq']Good job. Now we'll never get Strell on "To Catch a Predator."[/QUOTE]

THIS IS VICIOUSLY OFF TOPIC.
 
Anyone who has been arguing with MykeVermin should just stop now. He has shown his utter stupidity "My only trump cards are 'we get to drink a lot,' and 'we were here first.'"
Where can you find that Catholicism came before true Christianity? It didn't and, if you think about it, it's not even possible with Catholics supposedly believing in Christ.
 
I DID see it, but I didn't like it that much. I loved the books, but they really screwed up the movie, it's very different and much more shallow than the book.

They butchered it. So, I guess this is more of a "why I won't see the sequel" post.



" Of course athiests didn't care when Narnia came out; you have nothing to lose (or so you believe)"

That's not true. I'm what you'd call atheist, and I loved Narnia, and didn't like Compass. I saw them both for what they were; movies. Narnia was well made and entertaining, Compass was a jumpy mess.

I believe what my life and views of the world lead me to believe, not what a movie or book tells me. A better term for atheism is free thinking.
 
[quote name='Dezuria']
" Of course athiests didn't care when Narnia came out; you have nothing to lose (or so you believe)"

That's not true. I'm what you'd call atheist, and I loved Narnia, and didn't like Compass. I saw them both for what they were; movies. Narnia was well made and entertaining, Compass was a jumpy mess.

I believe what my life and views of the world lead me to believe, not what a movie or book tells me. A better term for atheism is free thinking.[/quote]

"Free thinking"? I beg to differ. Athiesm is, by it's definition and nature, a very constricted form of thinking. You said it yourself:

"I believe what my life and views of the world lead me to believe"

So your only way of believing and seeing the world is through your own eyes, never once considering that there may be more out there than what you are able to contact with your 5 senses. In your eyes, it must be tangible and provable to be real, as if our scientific methods and human senses are the only possible ways to know if something exists. That is not free thinking; rather, you're a slave to your own flesh.

In regards to the Narnia comment, you misunderstood my point. A CAG said that athiests didn't care that Narnia included Christian symbolism, so why should Christians care if The Golden Compass included anti-God symbolism. My point was that athiests of course didn't care that Narnia included Christian symbolism, because it doesn't affect them in any way, what with them believing there is no God and all.
 
You assume a lot about me based on half a sentence, and it isn't accurate. Of course I have a spiritual side and I'd never trust only my eyes and science to show the truth, I just don't base my beliefs on a sketchy human-run orginization.

I'd personally say we do have a 'god' but not in any way similar to the bibles god. To me, god is basically the earth itself.(which we are killing with our human-made crap)

Everyone has a reason to believe what they believe, and it's better that way. No reason to attempt to derail their beliefs or prove them wrong, because it will always end in failure. Just believe what you think is right.

Anyway, that's my last post here because I don't wanna argue any further than that, it being pointless and all.
 
[quote name='ragtop70']Anyone who has been arguing with MykeVermin should just stop now. He has shown his utter stupidity "My only trump cards are 'we get to drink a lot,' and 'we were here first.'"
Where can you find that Catholicism came before true Christianity? It didn't and, if you think about it, it's not even possible with Catholics supposedly believing in Christ.[/QUOTE]

Find me a currently practiced denomination that came prior to Catholicism.

EDIT: And we do drink a lot.
 
Reviews.

Growing hate for movie theaters.

Keep showing up too late for the mid day matinees.

Those are my reasons.
 
I thought it looked pretty dumb, and I only considered going to see it to check out the Speed Racer trailer.

Also, omg, I'm surprised that there actually are so many people getting offended over it for "religious reasons." I'd heard about there being people upset over this movie, but I thought that that was like, some kind of joke or something. Oi...
 
Ladies and gentleman, I give you Satan's most frequently used and most effective deception:

[quote name='Dezuria']
Everyone has a reason to believe what they believe, and it's better that way. No reason to attempt to derail their beliefs or prove them wrong, because it will always end in failure. Just believe what you think is right.
[/quote]

This was fun, no hard feelings to everyone I debated with.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I thought it looked pretty dumb, and I only considered going to see it to check out the Speed Racer trailer.

Also, omg, I'm surprised that there actually are so many people getting offended over it for "religious reasons." I'd heard about there being people upset over this movie, but I thought that that was like, some kind of joke or something. Oi...[/QUOTE]

It's not as big a deal as this thread would have you believe. ;)


I concur with the earlier guy who mentioned his growing hate for theaters. We went to see I am Legend and there were groups of people talking. And then the groups started shouting back and forth to each other, carrying on full conversations!

I am going to invest in a really nice sound system. I already have an HDTV. Good-bye movie theaters! You have nothing that I can't experience in greater comfort and quality at home a few months later.
 
The ender, the following helped me understand religious fervor such as yours (and the lady from that website):

He's just a man getting through life the best he can
He's not a scientist, he programs a computer
Before that he sold cars to pay a student loan now he receives pity
From his family - his friends say how could he
Turn his back on reason worshiping
A God finding truth through fear and mind control
He's just a man trying to explain how
He found the word of God could make his life seem less insane
So he shares what he's read, what he understands, it makes
sense to him, it makes perfect sense,
He's never seen the world so clearly
Turned his back on free will - has he lost his mind?
He'd rather kneel down than take charge of his life
And he knows what people think, but it doesn't sway him
He can read the writings on the wall
'Cause he knows how people treat, how they treat each other
A sacrifice to benefit the all
Don't try to judge him, his theological ideas
His hopes may be false but his happiness is real
Don't try to judge him, he's just a man

-NoFX "Happy Guy"

I get why relgious peeps would want to sheild their youth from different viewpoints (what The Ender calls "propaghanda"). It makes those with faith "happier" in that they don't have to suffer the internal mental combat between faith and logic/knowledge. Avoid the alternative info, and it makes the info you've devoted yourself to easier swallow.


Topic sentence: I'm not 12 sums it up pretty good. I was disappointed with how "little kidsy" narnia was.
 
Wow, that was condescending. And for the record, that song helped you form a perception of what/why/how "people like me" do what we do and believe what we believe. It did not give you a complete understanding.

And really? A NoFX song is a path to wisdom for you?
 
[quote name='pittpizza']It makes those with faith "happier" in that they don't have to suffer the internal mental combat between faith and logic/knowledge. Avoid the alternative info, and it makes the info you've devoted yourself to easier swallow..[/QUOTE]

Use your logic and knowledge to explain to me why torture is wrong.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Find me a currently practiced denomination that came prior to Catholicism.

EDIT: And we do drink a lot.[/QUOTE]
An interesting point. To a certain degree, Catholicism is the oldest denomination. Since the bulk of the early Christians were centered around Rome more than Constantinople, the center of Christendom was Rome and the Bishop of Rome's words were very influential. Although, I'd argue that the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic faiths really split into two distinct churches during the East-West Schism in around 1054. Prior to that, the Papacy wasn't the same as it in the modern Catholic Church.
 
Mr. Vermin, I won't argue that many Catholics drink and I didn't know you were referring to denominations. As far as denominations go, you may or may not be correct. I am not a member of a denomination, I was referring to Christianity earlier.
 
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