Why do so many gamers hate Sony?
- Thread starter Teh Nitwit
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Dr Mario Kart
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I'm going to lay out a hair splitting defintion.
Savior game(s) - A system seller (or small group of system sellers within a short time span) that reverses the hardware sales trend to be permanently above a competitor that was consistently beating you for a significant amount of time prior.
That is to say, the difference between a savior system is one of timing and position. You have to be behind consistently for some time in order to need saving.
Example 1: Wii Sports is not a Savior Game. It is a system seller in the highest order, but the Wii was not really in an unfavorable position due to being consistently behind. There was no trend reversal, because it SET the trend.
Example 2: Halo 1. Not a Savior Game. Yes, it probably saved the xbox1 from being beaten by the Gamecube, but it was a launch game, and once again, there was no trend reversal.
Now. Have any Savior Games ever really existed?
That is to say, in our young industry that is gaming, has a permanent trend reversal occured where one was getting consistently beat prior?
I'm going to argue that this has only happened ONCE, with the SNES/Genesis Battle.
There are a lot of different accounts of it, being as hotly contested as it was, so you'll have to excuse me if my understanding of it conflicts with yours.
Genesis launched in 1989, competing first with a late generation NES.
SNES came on the scene in Fall 1991 and stayed even(ish) with the Genesis for quite some time in the U.S. My understanding of Europe was that it was Genesis land, but I dont know how accurate that really is.
Fall 1992 - Nintendo leads off with the likes of an arcade port of Street Fighter 2 (which Genesis got a year later) and Super Mario Kart
Between 1992-1994, Sega was put on a trend that lost their lead, but I dont think it was games alone. The whole SegaCD/32x business fragmented both the dev pool and the consumer base, and it seems like they were having various internal problems anyway.
__________________________________
This is the only significant example post-NES of a REAL and permanent trend reversal occuring well beyond launch. And arguably it wasn't entirely that it was Nintendo's fight to win, but Sega's to lose. Pre-NES lore really isnt my thing.
__________________________________
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.
Savior game(s) - A system seller (or small group of system sellers within a short time span) that reverses the hardware sales trend to be permanently above a competitor that was consistently beating you for a significant amount of time prior.
That is to say, the difference between a savior system is one of timing and position. You have to be behind consistently for some time in order to need saving.
Example 1: Wii Sports is not a Savior Game. It is a system seller in the highest order, but the Wii was not really in an unfavorable position due to being consistently behind. There was no trend reversal, because it SET the trend.
Example 2: Halo 1. Not a Savior Game. Yes, it probably saved the xbox1 from being beaten by the Gamecube, but it was a launch game, and once again, there was no trend reversal.
Now. Have any Savior Games ever really existed?
That is to say, in our young industry that is gaming, has a permanent trend reversal occured where one was getting consistently beat prior?
I'm going to argue that this has only happened ONCE, with the SNES/Genesis Battle.
There are a lot of different accounts of it, being as hotly contested as it was, so you'll have to excuse me if my understanding of it conflicts with yours.
Genesis launched in 1989, competing first with a late generation NES.
SNES came on the scene in Fall 1991 and stayed even(ish) with the Genesis for quite some time in the U.S. My understanding of Europe was that it was Genesis land, but I dont know how accurate that really is.
Fall 1992 - Nintendo leads off with the likes of an arcade port of Street Fighter 2 (which Genesis got a year later) and Super Mario Kart
Between 1992-1994, Sega was put on a trend that lost their lead, but I dont think it was games alone. The whole SegaCD/32x business fragmented both the dev pool and the consumer base, and it seems like they were having various internal problems anyway.
__________________________________
This is the only significant example post-NES of a REAL and permanent trend reversal occuring well beyond launch. And arguably it wasn't entirely that it was Nintendo's fight to win, but Sega's to lose. Pre-NES lore really isnt my thing.
__________________________________
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.
-Never4ever-
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.[/QUOTE]
Excellent points all around.
The only truths are very clear:
a) Sony is not winning the console war now (in any territory).
b) Sony needs 2008 to be a strong year if they ever hope to come out on top.
Anything else is subjective.
Personally, if there's no MGS4 360 port and the price drops again, I'll probably wind up back on the ole PS3 bandwagon (third times the charm amirite?). Then again, that's just me.
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.[/QUOTE]
Excellent points all around.
The only truths are very clear:
a) Sony is not winning the console war now (in any territory).
b) Sony needs 2008 to be a strong year if they ever hope to come out on top.
Anything else is subjective.
Personally, if there's no MGS4 360 port and the price drops again, I'll probably wind up back on the ole PS3 bandwagon (third times the charm amirite?). Then again, that's just me.
Dr Mario Kart
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MGS4/FF13/God of War 3 is definitely one of the hardest hitting combos I can think of, this side of a Dragon Quest game.
If there was any combination to do it, that would be it. I just think its one hell of an uphill battle.
If there was any combination to do it, that would be it. I just think its one hell of an uphill battle.
-Never4ever-
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']MGS4/FF13/God of War 3 is definitely one of the hardest hitting combos I can think of, this side of a Dragon Quest game.
If there was any combination to do it, that would be it. I just think its one hell of an uphill battle.[/QUOTE]
If they all come out together in the same year, sure. But MGS4 comes in late 08 / early 09, FF13 won't make it's way to the rest of the world until early 2010, and GoW3 might actually get released before 2011
That's a great release schedule if they want to secure top spot, but horrible if they're trying to claw out of the ditch Sony dug itself.
If there was any combination to do it, that would be it. I just think its one hell of an uphill battle.[/QUOTE]
If they all come out together in the same year, sure. But MGS4 comes in late 08 / early 09, FF13 won't make it's way to the rest of the world until early 2010, and GoW3 might actually get released before 2011
That's a great release schedule if they want to secure top spot, but horrible if they're trying to claw out of the ditch Sony dug itself.
?
.......
Guest
MGS4 has been delayed to late 2011/early 2012.
[quote name='whoknows']Since when is MGS4 late 08/early 09? Last I checked it was 2nd quarter 2008.[/QUOTE]
Just like it was supposed to be released in '06, then '07, then 1st quarter '08, now 2nd quarter '08.
I'll believe a release date when the game is in my hands.
Just like it was supposed to be released in '06, then '07, then 1st quarter '08, now 2nd quarter '08.
I'll believe a release date when the game is in my hands.
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Because it doesn't. You're far too biased to the PS3.[/QUOTE]
Well maybe I seem biased.. but my money isn't... 360 - owner, Ps3 owner, Wii - trying, psp, owner, ds - owner. This time I put my money where your mouth is. (or keyboad)
I'm too old to be biased... I appreciate all games. Notice, my whole argument has nothing to do with the success or failure of Sony's competitors, only with them getting better PS3 sales.
Well maybe I seem biased.. but my money isn't... 360 - owner, Ps3 owner, Wii - trying, psp, owner, ds - owner. This time I put my money where your mouth is. (or keyboad)
I'm too old to be biased... I appreciate all games. Notice, my whole argument has nothing to do with the success or failure of Sony's competitors, only with them getting better PS3 sales.
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I'm going to lay out a hair splitting defintion.
Savior game(s) - A system seller (or small group of system sellers within a short time span) that reverses the hardware sales trend to be permanently above a competitor that was consistently beating you for a significant amount of time prior.
That is to say, the difference between a savior system is one of timing and position. You have to be behind consistently for some time in order to need saving.
Example 1: Wii Sports is not a Savior Game. It is a system seller in the highest order, but the Wii was not really in an unfavorable position due to being consistently behind. There was no trend reversal, because it SET the trend.
Example 2: Halo 1. Not a Savior Game. Yes, it probably saved the xbox1 from being beaten by the Gamecube, but it was a launch game, and once again, there was no trend reversal.
Now. Have any Savior Games ever really existed?
That is to say, in our young industry that is gaming, has a permanent trend reversal occured where one was getting consistently beat prior?
I'm going to argue that this has only happened ONCE, with the SNES/Genesis Battle.
There are a lot of different accounts of it, being as hotly contested as it was, so you'll have to excuse me if my understanding of it conflicts with yours.
Genesis launched in 1989, competing first with a late generation NES.
SNES came on the scene in Fall 1991 and stayed even(ish) with the Genesis for quite some time in the U.S. My understanding of Europe was that it was Genesis land, but I dont know how accurate that really is.
Fall 1992 - Nintendo leads off with the likes of an arcade port of Street Fighter 2 (which Genesis got a year later) and Super Mario Kart
Between 1992-1994, Sega was put on a trend that lost their lead, but I dont think it was games alone. The whole SegaCD/32x business fragmented both the dev pool and the consumer base, and it seems like they were having various internal problems anyway.
__________________________________
This is the only significant example post-NES of a REAL and permanent trend reversal occuring well beyond launch. And arguably it wasn't entirely that it was Nintendo's fight to win, but Sega's to lose. Pre-NES lore really isnt my thing.
__________________________________
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.[/QUOTE]
That's true, 2008 is a critical year and if Sony wants to do well, they need to turn the tide.. If they can get out their major games, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, and a good version of Madden 09, they should do well.
Savior game for a console, is highly unlikely, but for a company, it could be. Assassin's Creed - from what I hear (read) that game basically kept that company from possibly being bought up by EA.
The first Madden(forgot the year) for PS2 at launch isn't a savior by definition, but it definitely took the tide and pushed in one general direction. I still feel like not having that Madden on the Dreamcast was a significant downfall for the Dreamcast.
Little Big Planet has a shot of being a savior game. They'd also make good PS3 mascots, and it has appeal that can be marketed for the mainstream. Its a long shot, but imagine a 300 dollar PS3 marketed to children with Little Big Planet on the box, and Little big planet charaters all over TV. - {I'm probably starting to sound far fetched - because there's no way Sony could actually handle something 100 percent correctly!}
Savior game(s) - A system seller (or small group of system sellers within a short time span) that reverses the hardware sales trend to be permanently above a competitor that was consistently beating you for a significant amount of time prior.
That is to say, the difference between a savior system is one of timing and position. You have to be behind consistently for some time in order to need saving.
Example 1: Wii Sports is not a Savior Game. It is a system seller in the highest order, but the Wii was not really in an unfavorable position due to being consistently behind. There was no trend reversal, because it SET the trend.
Example 2: Halo 1. Not a Savior Game. Yes, it probably saved the xbox1 from being beaten by the Gamecube, but it was a launch game, and once again, there was no trend reversal.
Now. Have any Savior Games ever really existed?
That is to say, in our young industry that is gaming, has a permanent trend reversal occured where one was getting consistently beat prior?
I'm going to argue that this has only happened ONCE, with the SNES/Genesis Battle.
There are a lot of different accounts of it, being as hotly contested as it was, so you'll have to excuse me if my understanding of it conflicts with yours.
Genesis launched in 1989, competing first with a late generation NES.
SNES came on the scene in Fall 1991 and stayed even(ish) with the Genesis for quite some time in the U.S. My understanding of Europe was that it was Genesis land, but I dont know how accurate that really is.
Fall 1992 - Nintendo leads off with the likes of an arcade port of Street Fighter 2 (which Genesis got a year later) and Super Mario Kart
Between 1992-1994, Sega was put on a trend that lost their lead, but I dont think it was games alone. The whole SegaCD/32x business fragmented both the dev pool and the consumer base, and it seems like they were having various internal problems anyway.
__________________________________
This is the only significant example post-NES of a REAL and permanent trend reversal occuring well beyond launch. And arguably it wasn't entirely that it was Nintendo's fight to win, but Sega's to lose. Pre-NES lore really isnt my thing.
__________________________________
This brings up to where we are now. We are basically in what Thomas and I can both agree is the most critical year and the last chance that Sony has to pull a major upset.
What they're asking for is quite a historical event indeed, unless 360 or Nintendo do something nightmarishly bad on their end.[/QUOTE]
That's true, 2008 is a critical year and if Sony wants to do well, they need to turn the tide.. If they can get out their major games, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, and a good version of Madden 09, they should do well.
Savior game for a console, is highly unlikely, but for a company, it could be. Assassin's Creed - from what I hear (read) that game basically kept that company from possibly being bought up by EA.
The first Madden(forgot the year) for PS2 at launch isn't a savior by definition, but it definitely took the tide and pushed in one general direction. I still feel like not having that Madden on the Dreamcast was a significant downfall for the Dreamcast.
Little Big Planet has a shot of being a savior game. They'd also make good PS3 mascots, and it has appeal that can be marketed for the mainstream. Its a long shot, but imagine a 300 dollar PS3 marketed to children with Little Big Planet on the box, and Little big planet charaters all over TV. - {I'm probably starting to sound far fetched - because there's no way Sony could actually handle something 100 percent correctly!}
PapiChullo
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Thomas96']That's true, 2008 is a critical year and if Sony wants to do well, they need to turn the tide.. If they can get out their major games, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, and a good version of Madden 09, they should do well.
[/QUOTE]
I think a good Madden will probably the biggest influence for the PS3 success this upcoming year. Madden is always one of the top selling games out there, and I think there are a lot of PS2 owners out there that are dying to convert as long as the price of the console is right and the game is quality. I was apart of that crowd myself for a little bit, but bit this year for NCAA, which was a little disappointing. But if Madden on PS3 is good, we should see a good amount of those PS2 gamers left w/o a PS3 make the jump.
We'll see though.
[/QUOTE]
I think a good Madden will probably the biggest influence for the PS3 success this upcoming year. Madden is always one of the top selling games out there, and I think there are a lot of PS2 owners out there that are dying to convert as long as the price of the console is right and the game is quality. I was apart of that crowd myself for a little bit, but bit this year for NCAA, which was a little disappointing. But if Madden on PS3 is good, we should see a good amount of those PS2 gamers left w/o a PS3 make the jump.
We'll see though.
[quote name='PapiChullo']I think a good Madden will probably the biggest influence for the PS3 success this upcoming year. Madden is always one of the top selling games out there, and I think there are a lot of PS2 owners out there that are dying to convert as long as the price of the console is right and the game is quality. I was apart of that crowd myself for a little bit, but bit this year for NCAA, which was a little disappointing. But if Madden on PS3 is good, we should see a good amount of those PS2 gamers left w/o a PS3 make the jump.
We'll see though.[/QUOTE]
Well I know Sony talked with EA about having Madden being developed on PS3 as the lead console. Burnout was developed as the lead on PS3 and results were very good imo. So I'm hoping that Burnout paradise is a sign that any PS3 development issues should be over. If the Ps3 has an inch of power more than the 360, I'd love to see it expressed in a Madden game.
We'll see though.[/QUOTE]
Well I know Sony talked with EA about having Madden being developed on PS3 as the lead console. Burnout was developed as the lead on PS3 and results were very good imo. So I'm hoping that Burnout paradise is a sign that any PS3 development issues should be over. If the Ps3 has an inch of power more than the 360, I'd love to see it expressed in a Madden game.
I bought a PS3 in August thinking I'd be playing GTA IV, Killzone 2, MGS4, Little Big Planet, and messing around with Home about now. While I love the system for games like Warhawk and Uncharted, I'm getting kind of pissed at all the delays. Seems like it's Sony's fault for making a complicated system.
Blu-ray is great (Planet Earth!) but I want to play more games on this thing. So far this generation I'd say 90% of my gaming time has been on the 360 but I expect that to reverse starting next year if all of Sony's big games can come out. I'm especially looking forward to Infamous and Team ICO's next game.
Blu-ray is great (Planet Earth!) but I want to play more games on this thing. So far this generation I'd say 90% of my gaming time has been on the 360 but I expect that to reverse starting next year if all of Sony's big games can come out. I'm especially looking forward to Infamous and Team ICO's next game.
[quote name='Aleman']I bought a PS3 in August thinking I'd be playing GTA IV, Killzone 2, MGS4, Little Big Planet, and messing around with Home about now. While I love the system for games like Warhawk and Uncharted, I'm getting kind of pissed at all the delays. Seems like it's Sony's fault for making a complicated system.
Blu-ray is great (Planet Earth!) but I want to play more games on this thing.[/QUOTE]
Come play some UT 3 w/ us.
Blu-ray is great (Planet Earth!) but I want to play more games on this thing.[/QUOTE]
Come play some UT 3 w/ us.
From what I understand the PS3 is holding its own fine in Europe. I remember the PS3 launch in France and how Sony was said to be doomed yet the PS3 seems to be doing solid and may even pass the 360 one day in France. This probably applies to a lot of places in Europe. And of course the PS3 easily outsells the 360 in Japan.
The numbers way be too great in NA for the PS3 to get to 2nd worldwide but fortunately they seem to be holding their own well enough to justify games for it. Most of the good games for the PS2 IMO came 3-4 years later. The first year of games is good if you consider its the first year and don't compare to other systems that have been out longer like 360, PS2, DS, or PSP. PS3 lineup is easily better than the Wii's IMO at least.
The numbers way be too great in NA for the PS3 to get to 2nd worldwide but fortunately they seem to be holding their own well enough to justify games for it. Most of the good games for the PS2 IMO came 3-4 years later. The first year of games is good if you consider its the first year and don't compare to other systems that have been out longer like 360, PS2, DS, or PSP. PS3 lineup is easily better than the Wii's IMO at least.
This reply is a long time coming, and I'm just going to paraphase points rather that include entire quotes to try and keep it as short as possible.
[quote name='Thomas96'] NEW IPs are for casual gamers. Nintendo is spending a tremendous amount of money in their efforts to cater to the casual gaming market - those who don't regularly play games, or haven't played in hears. The whole system, and controller was made for casual gamers. [/quote]
If I only need one example to refute this, I win. Example: Disaster - Day of Crisis
That took time. You know, since everyone kept saying "Wait until MGS2" with the PS2. It followed the same route of the PS1, where it took 1-2 years before some of the best games on it appeared. You can't do this with the Wii, though, because you're comparing it to the rose-colored armchair quarterback past, and even if the two systems are following the same path, that's not good enough for you. You act like the PS2 launched with GoW, Ico, MGS3, DMC, Zone of the Enders, SoTC, FFX, etc. It didn't, so stop acting like it did.
As for the PSP, again - it took time, but now the system has some good games. For a lot of people, it definitely has enough to warrant purchase. But that took time.
Too bad you can't prove any of this, since you don't work at Nintendo and can't foretell the future, and instead are just jumping to conclusions as quick as you can.
You know, the more you talk, if CAG had been around when the PS2 launched and you had been a Dreamcast guy, you'd be making the same exact arguments against it. Think about that.
Yeah, and that's always been one of the big problems with Nintendo - their games are good.
Sarcasm aside, there's a million factors worth discussing here, but I don't have the patience to do it again.
That's funny, because even though the Gamecube was profitable, everyone calls it a failure. The same will happen here if current trends continue, only the PS3 will be considered the loser. But it doesn't matter at the moment because the market it too early to tell.
[quote name='MechaFenris']
3rd party development moving away from the Wii long-term because what's good for Nintendo isn't always good for those playing in their sandbox.
[/quote]
This isn't a Wii-specific-problem though, and again, there's a million factors at play here, and I'm not going to discuss them again. This is by far the biggest problem with Nintendo, but there's foul play going on from every angle imaginable here.
The frat morons aren't going to let anything take them away from Halo. Grand Theft Auto might, but even that is doubtful. If they are set in stone with teabagging, what's going to change that? Acting like Wii Fit isn't the answer is normal, because there's no answer in the short fun.
And again, I don't know how many times I have to say this - just because Wii Fit was featured at a trade show...well, the point is that gamers are crying about it for a variety of reasons, and maybe two of them are valid, and the rest is just a lot of moaning.
Alright. But it's like you said - Japan seems to be increasingly becoming disinterested in console gaming. I really have no damn idea what to expect out of that country beyond that they will buy anything with "Samurai Warriors" in the title.
Interesting quote, actually.
[quote name='Thomas96'] NEW IPs are for casual gamers. Nintendo is spending a tremendous amount of money in their efforts to cater to the casual gaming market - those who don't regularly play games, or haven't played in hears. The whole system, and controller was made for casual gamers. [/quote]
If I only need one example to refute this, I win. Example: Disaster - Day of Crisis
That took time. You know, since everyone kept saying "Wait until MGS2" with the PS2. It followed the same route of the PS1, where it took 1-2 years before some of the best games on it appeared. You can't do this with the Wii, though, because you're comparing it to the rose-colored armchair quarterback past, and even if the two systems are following the same path, that's not good enough for you. You act like the PS2 launched with GoW, Ico, MGS3, DMC, Zone of the Enders, SoTC, FFX, etc. It didn't, so stop acting like it did.
As for the PSP, again - it took time, but now the system has some good games. For a lot of people, it definitely has enough to warrant purchase. But that took time.
Too bad you can't prove any of this, since you don't work at Nintendo and can't foretell the future, and instead are just jumping to conclusions as quick as you can.
You know, the more you talk, if CAG had been around when the PS2 launched and you had been a Dreamcast guy, you'd be making the same exact arguments against it. Think about that.
Yeah, and that's always been one of the big problems with Nintendo - their games are good.
Sarcasm aside, there's a million factors worth discussing here, but I don't have the patience to do it again.
That's funny, because even though the Gamecube was profitable, everyone calls it a failure. The same will happen here if current trends continue, only the PS3 will be considered the loser. But it doesn't matter at the moment because the market it too early to tell.
[quote name='MechaFenris']
3rd party development moving away from the Wii long-term because what's good for Nintendo isn't always good for those playing in their sandbox.
[/quote]
This isn't a Wii-specific-problem though, and again, there's a million factors at play here, and I'm not going to discuss them again. This is by far the biggest problem with Nintendo, but there's foul play going on from every angle imaginable here.
The frat morons aren't going to let anything take them away from Halo. Grand Theft Auto might, but even that is doubtful. If they are set in stone with teabagging, what's going to change that? Acting like Wii Fit isn't the answer is normal, because there's no answer in the short fun.
And again, I don't know how many times I have to say this - just because Wii Fit was featured at a trade show...well, the point is that gamers are crying about it for a variety of reasons, and maybe two of them are valid, and the rest is just a lot of moaning.
Alright. But it's like you said - Japan seems to be increasingly becoming disinterested in console gaming. I really have no damn idea what to expect out of that country beyond that they will buy anything with "Samurai Warriors" in the title.
Interesting quote, actually.
mykevermin
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If we are to believe all these prattling twats who claim that their dislike, hatred, or whatever other semantic word you want to use, for Sony is spurned on by their arrogance...then is Activision the next developer to feel the burn of the gamers' collective ire?
C'mon, these mother
ers outright told the Boston Globe "We believe we should be compensated for the use of our technology" in response to questions about their blocking Harmonix/EA's PS3 patch for Rock Band to allow compatibility with the Les Paul. Unabashed bribery for someone else's work.
Of course, the gamers' disdain for arrogance is selective and often short-lived. We forget how much we protested that Guitar Hero DLC was too expensive - and now salivate at the prospect of paying $6.25 for 3 songs (perhaps 1-2 of which we like), and now $2.50 for individual songs! Oh, worse yet, we worship the ground they piss on when the benevolent souls give us "FREE" DLC in the form of three tracks that were on theing game disc already!
So, again, I really don't buy all this "Sony is teh arrogant and we won't buy their stuff" argument. If that really held true, Activision would suffer a similar fate right now, EA would have suffered a similar fate after killing off the beloved and budget NFL 2K series, and Sony would have...well, they have, but on the PC side of things with whatever the hell it was they did with Star Wars Galaxies.
Look, if you dislike arrogance, that's well and good. I encourage that (ironically, I suppose, given my own self-perception). But let's either apply it equally, or look where it has a greater impact - what was *inhibiting* to you, as a gamer, about Sony's arrogance with the PS3? I can point to Activision and say "well, if I wanna have a Rock Band party, I gotta find a motherer who owns Rock Band, because the Les Paul is useless thanks to backstage bribery by these bastards." I can point to EA and say "You helped make All Pro Football happen, ers." But did Sony deliberately interfere with my ability to play a game? I'm curious to see who thinks so.
C'mon, these mother
ers outright told the Boston Globe "We believe we should be compensated for the use of our technology" in response to questions about their blocking Harmonix/EA's PS3 patch for Rock Band to allow compatibility with the Les Paul. Unabashed bribery for someone else's work.Of course, the gamers' disdain for arrogance is selective and often short-lived. We forget how much we protested that Guitar Hero DLC was too expensive - and now salivate at the prospect of paying $6.25 for 3 songs (perhaps 1-2 of which we like), and now $2.50 for individual songs! Oh, worse yet, we worship the ground they piss on when the benevolent souls give us "FREE" DLC in the form of three tracks that were on the
ing game disc already!So, again, I really don't buy all this "Sony is teh arrogant and we won't buy their stuff" argument. If that really held true, Activision would suffer a similar fate right now, EA would have suffered a similar fate after killing off the beloved and budget NFL 2K series, and Sony would have...well, they have, but on the PC side of things with whatever the hell it was they did with Star Wars Galaxies.
Look, if you dislike arrogance, that's well and good. I encourage that (ironically, I suppose, given my own self-perception). But let's either apply it equally, or look where it has a greater impact - what was *inhibiting* to you, as a gamer, about Sony's arrogance with the PS3? I can point to Activision and say "well, if I wanna have a Rock Band party, I gotta find a mother
er who owns Rock Band, because the Les Paul is useless thanks to backstage bribery by these bastards." I can point to EA and say "You helped make All Pro Football happen, ers." But did Sony deliberately interfere with my ability to play a game? I'm curious to see who thinks so.
liquidcross
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Well said, sir. Pokes gaping holes in many an Xbot's argument.
Myke,
there was a internet fanboy boycott of EA after the 2K series issue, and beyond that one comment on a single game what else has Activision done arrogantly?
Sony continuously acts as if their forever the End all Be all to video games, electronics, Televisions etc. It can become annoying after a while. I haven't been in this thread but when you compare one game across 2 systems, to the virtual king of Video games last generation, Sony will get more attention for spouting off at the mouth. Its that simple.
When MGS4 or some other app drops half these people will jump on the bandwagon anyhow. I think the PS3 is already picking up a ton of steam.
there was a internet fanboy boycott of EA after the 2K series issue, and beyond that one comment on a single game what else has Activision done arrogantly?
Sony continuously acts as if their forever the End all Be all to video games, electronics, Televisions etc. It can become annoying after a while. I haven't been in this thread but when you compare one game across 2 systems, to the virtual king of Video games last generation, Sony will get more attention for spouting off at the mouth. Its that simple.
When MGS4 or some other app drops half these people will jump on the bandwagon anyhow. I think the PS3 is already picking up a ton of steam.
[quote name='Snake2715']Myke,
there was a internet fanboy boycott of EA after the 2K series issue, and beyond that one comment on a single game what else has Activision done arrogantly?
Sony continuously acts as if their forever the End all Be all to video games, electronics, Televisions etc. It can become annoying after a while. I haven't been in this thread but when you compare one game across 2 systems, to the virtual king of Video games last generation, Sony will get more attention for spouting off at the mouth. Its that simple.
When MGS4 or some other app drops half these people will jump on the bandwagon anyhow. I think the PS3 is already picking up a ton of steam.[/QUOTE]
can you at least give an example of what Sony did to be considered Arrogant - this year.
there was a internet fanboy boycott of EA after the 2K series issue, and beyond that one comment on a single game what else has Activision done arrogantly?
Sony continuously acts as if their forever the End all Be all to video games, electronics, Televisions etc. It can become annoying after a while. I haven't been in this thread but when you compare one game across 2 systems, to the virtual king of Video games last generation, Sony will get more attention for spouting off at the mouth. Its that simple.
When MGS4 or some other app drops half these people will jump on the bandwagon anyhow. I think the PS3 is already picking up a ton of steam.[/QUOTE]
can you at least give an example of what Sony did to be considered Arrogant - this year.
richbastard
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Well like 95% of the people around here are nintendo fanboys or xbox fanboys and even some sega fanboys so you are never going to win an argument here specially since most of them spend alot of time here in the Sony forums just looking at ways to troll and say how much they hate Sony. i hate nintendo and i hate xbox, you know how many times i been to their forums? none beacuase i hate them so much i dont care for them one bit just dont buy their products tell family and friends how much x360 sucks and wii is the biggest POS since the game cube and done deal.
V
Virtua
Guest
Guitar Hero is for stupids.
Just spend your time learning the damn instrument. It's not THAT hard, and it's damn near getting close to being cheaper than that overpriced fisher price play along shit.
Just spend your time learning the damn instrument. It's not THAT hard, and it's damn near getting close to being cheaper than that overpriced fisher price play along shit.
Ive never played one note of a Guitar Hero game, or Rockband, and thats by design.
Ya know that SouthPark ep about GH? Thats exactly how I feel about the game.
More power to you if you like pretending to make music with plastic instruments, but its not for me. And even if I did play those games, no way would I pay that kinda money for song downloads.
Ya know that SouthPark ep about GH? Thats exactly how I feel about the game.
More power to you if you like pretending to make music with plastic instruments, but its not for me. And even if I did play those games, no way would I pay that kinda money for song downloads.
Nephlabobo
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Well said Myke.
If anything, Sony have brought me new and more interesting games to play.
You'd never get a game like Folklore on 360 or the Wii.
I can't believe this thread is still going.
If anything, Sony have brought me new and more interesting games to play.
You'd never get a game like Folklore on 360 or the Wii.
I can't believe this thread is still going.
mykevermin
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[quote name='jer7583']_________ is for stupids.
Just spend your time _____________. It's not THAT hard, and it's damn near getting close to being cheaper than that overpriced fisher price play along shit.[/QUOTE]
Fill in the blanks with your choice of game and substitute activity, and you have every parent's anti-video game argument ever.
It's completely immaterial to the argument I was making, of course - but you excel at those sorts of things.
Just spend your time _____________. It's not THAT hard, and it's damn near getting close to being cheaper than that overpriced fisher price play along shit.[/QUOTE]
Fill in the blanks with your choice of game and substitute activity, and you have every parent's anti-video game argument ever.
It's completely immaterial to the argument I was making, of course - but you excel at those sorts of things.
Nephlabobo
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[quote name='zewone']Isn't Folklore just Pokemon, but not as fun?[/quote]
I've heard that argument, but I've never played Pokemon, so I can't comment.
I don't think it's quite the same, from what I know of both of them, though.
I've heard that argument, but I've never played Pokemon, so I can't comment.
I don't think it's quite the same, from what I know of both of them, though.
[quote name='zewone']Isn't Folklore just Pokemon, but not as fun?[/QUOTE]
I've never played Pokemon, but Folklore is more of an action/adventure game rather than RPG. Even though there are hit points for your character, it's sort of immaterial since the way you upgrade is by meeting certain conditions for your folks (i.e., defeat 15 of x with y or capture 10 of z). I think it's worth it just for the whole atmosphere of the game. I'm definitely feeling a bit of seller's remorse on this one - I'll pick it up again when it hits $20 or $30 somewhere.
I've never played Pokemon, but Folklore is more of an action/adventure game rather than RPG. Even though there are hit points for your character, it's sort of immaterial since the way you upgrade is by meeting certain conditions for your folks (i.e., defeat 15 of x with y or capture 10 of z). I think it's worth it just for the whole atmosphere of the game. I'm definitely feeling a bit of seller's remorse on this one - I'll pick it up again when it hits $20 or $30 somewhere.
V
Virtua
Guest
I don't think that arguement works, myke.. Along with sports games, guitar hero/etc. aren't fulfilling unrealistic activities. Being able to drive a car 200mph or jump 30 feet in the air, or win world war 2 by yourself are far more outlandish experiences.
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.
Gentlegamer
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[quote name='Puffa469']Ya know that SouthPark ep about GH? Thats exactly how I feel about the game.[/quote]I can play Guitar Hero acoustically.
[quote name='Thomas96']This whole console war is about to change... there's a game on the horizon that made the PS2 in its 7th year the top selling console in the US.
God of War III.... [/quote]
God of War has sold 2 million copies in the US as of three weeks ago. The sequel has sold roughly half that. Good numbers no doubt, but the ultimate system seller? Hardly. The three GTA games on the PS2 sold 12, 12, and 15 million copies. Gran Turismo 3 sold 15 million. 4 sold 9.5 million. Metal Gear Solid 2 sold 7 million.
All told, God of War is the 28th best selling game on the console. God of War II BARELY cracks the top 100. Great games and blockbuster sellers, but they certainly can't be credited with singlehandedly making the PS2 a success.
God of War III.... [/quote]
God of War has sold 2 million copies in the US as of three weeks ago. The sequel has sold roughly half that. Good numbers no doubt, but the ultimate system seller? Hardly. The three GTA games on the PS2 sold 12, 12, and 15 million copies. Gran Turismo 3 sold 15 million. 4 sold 9.5 million. Metal Gear Solid 2 sold 7 million.All told, God of War is the 28th best selling game on the console. God of War II BARELY cracks the top 100. Great games and blockbuster sellers, but they certainly can't be credited with singlehandedly making the PS2 a success.
[quote name='geko29']God of War has sold 2 million copies in the US as of three weeks ago. The sequel has sold roughly half that. Good numbers no doubt, but the ultimate system seller? Hardly. The three GTA games on the PS2 sold 12, 12, and 15 million copies. Gran Turismo 3 sold 15 million. 4 sold 9.5 million. Metal Gear Solid 2 sold 7 million.
All told, God of War is the 28th best selling game on the console. God of War II BARELY cracks the top 100. Great games and blockbuster sellers, but they certainly can't be credited with singlehandedly making the PS2 a success.[/QUOTE]
oh my bad.. when god of war II was released in the US, it helped the ps2 to become the top selling console of march 2007, [out of all consoles ] God of War III is definitely going to be one of those games that's going to be in the top 10 of ps3 game sales. Presently, there's no next gen - beat em up type games out. DMC 4 is coming, Heavenly Sword... oh yeah, Conan, but that should have been released at about 14.99.
God of War has sold 2 million copies in the US as of three weeks ago. The sequel has sold roughly half that. Good numbers no doubt, but the ultimate system seller? Hardly. The three GTA games on the PS2 sold 12, 12, and 15 million copies. Gran Turismo 3 sold 15 million. 4 sold 9.5 million. Metal Gear Solid 2 sold 7 million.All told, God of War is the 28th best selling game on the console. God of War II BARELY cracks the top 100. Great games and blockbuster sellers, but they certainly can't be credited with singlehandedly making the PS2 a success.[/QUOTE]
oh my bad.. when god of war II was released in the US, it helped the ps2 to become the top selling console of march 2007, [out of all consoles ] God of War III is definitely going to be one of those games that's going to be in the top 10 of ps3 game sales. Presently, there's no next gen - beat em up type games out. DMC 4 is coming, Heavenly Sword... oh yeah, Conan, but that should have been released at about 14.99.
mykevermin
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[quote name='jer7583']I don't think that arguement works, myke.. Along with sports games, guitar hero/etc. aren't fulfilling unrealistic activities. Being able to drive a car 200mph or jump 30 feet in the air, or win world war 2 by yourself are far more outlandish experiences.
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.[/QUOTE]
It's still completely immaterial to the argument I made initially (about Activision's arrogance, not the reality/fantasy of games).
Why can't someone do both? Play Rock Band and learn an instrument? (6 months? Ha. Only if you're a bassist.) Play football and Madden?
Ultimately, you are avoiding an argument, again, in favor of injecting your opinion on the matter as if to say "well, that's that." Why don't you go back and address Activision's business practices and PR statements with regard to Guitar Hero (and, if it helps, just think of the game as "Frank Hero" so as to stave off your knee-jerk diversionary arguments).
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.[/QUOTE]
It's still completely immaterial to the argument I made initially (about Activision's arrogance, not the reality/fantasy of games).
Why can't someone do both? Play Rock Band and learn an instrument? (6 months? Ha. Only if you're a bassist.) Play football and Madden?
Ultimately, you are avoiding an argument, again, in favor of injecting your opinion on the matter as if to say "well, that's that." Why don't you go back and address Activision's business practices and PR statements with regard to Guitar Hero (and, if it helps, just think of the game as "Frank Hero" so as to stave off your knee-jerk diversionary arguments).
[quote name='jer7583']I don't think that arguement works, myke.. Along with sports games, guitar hero/etc. aren't fulfilling unrealistic activities. Being able to drive a car 200mph or jump 30 feet in the air, or win world war 2 by yourself are far more outlandish experiences.
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.[/QUOTE]
Sports games/ and guitar hero (as you specified) do provide some access to activities that people may not generally engage, or generally care to engage in. When it comes to "experiences" its always to each his own.
If you wanted to play the songs in guitar hero, spend 6 months learning guitar, and there you go. If you want to play football, get a ball and throw it around outside.[/QUOTE]
Sports games/ and guitar hero (as you specified) do provide some access to activities that people may not generally engage, or generally care to engage in. When it comes to "experiences" its always to each his own.
depascal22
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I don't hate any of the companies but I wish Sony would've made the system cheaper right off the bat. They knew the public didn't want to pay $500/600 for a system but they still released it. Then they got pissed when people compared it to the 360's price.
It just seems like Sony promises to make a super duper system every time and then when it comes out, it's a little short of the initial promises. Anyone remember the dual-HDMI promise? How about all the other ports that were supposed to be on the system? How about some of the promises for the graphics on the PS2.
That being said, the PS3 is looking better and better for every 360 that craps out. I thought the 360 couldn't be beat until mine crapped out with moderate use. I'm with most of the other people in this thread. I have 2 of the 3 systems and I'll get a Wii sometime next year when I don't have to deal with greedy-ass craigslist scalpers.
I guess my whole thing is why can't people say something bad about a system without people saying that you're a fanboy? richbastard claims that everyone here is a ms or nintendo fanboy. Why aren't we allowed to just like the games we like? Why can't Sony supporters realize that many people love Xbox Live more than they hate the 360's reliability problems? Why can't Sony supporters realize that Nintendo fans love playing easy games that get people involved? Chicks dig Wii games. If you can go buy a system that will get college girls in your dorm room, why wouldn't you buy it? Do you guys like to be hardcore loners that never get laid? I love Virtua Fighter as much as the next guy but I never got any play by asking a girl to come to my dorm room to play Virtua Fighter 2. They loved playing Mario 64 though. Does that make me a Nintendo fanboy? No, it made me a guy that liked to get laid every once in a while. I don't have a problem with people bashing games as long as they have actually played them and they actually use proper english to convey their opinion.
It just seems like Sony promises to make a super duper system every time and then when it comes out, it's a little short of the initial promises. Anyone remember the dual-HDMI promise? How about all the other ports that were supposed to be on the system? How about some of the promises for the graphics on the PS2.
That being said, the PS3 is looking better and better for every 360 that craps out. I thought the 360 couldn't be beat until mine crapped out with moderate use. I'm with most of the other people in this thread. I have 2 of the 3 systems and I'll get a Wii sometime next year when I don't have to deal with greedy-ass craigslist scalpers.
I guess my whole thing is why can't people say something bad about a system without people saying that you're a fanboy? richbastard claims that everyone here is a ms or nintendo fanboy. Why aren't we allowed to just like the games we like? Why can't Sony supporters realize that many people love Xbox Live more than they hate the 360's reliability problems? Why can't Sony supporters realize that Nintendo fans love playing easy games that get people involved? Chicks dig Wii games. If you can go buy a system that will get college girls in your dorm room, why wouldn't you buy it? Do you guys like to be hardcore loners that never get laid? I love Virtua Fighter as much as the next guy but I never got any play by asking a girl to come to my dorm room to play Virtua Fighter 2. They loved playing Mario 64 though. Does that make me a Nintendo fanboy? No, it made me a guy that liked to get laid every once in a while. I don't have a problem with people bashing games as long as they have actually played them and they actually use proper english to convey their opinion.
BattleChicken
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This thread is just mass virtual masterbation at this point.. its come and gone full circle a half a dozen times, and nobody is getting anywhere. Nobodys minds have been changed, Nobody is listening, Nothing positive has been gained.
Have fun with it, I guess... I'm out.
Have fun with it, I guess... I'm out.
bread's done