Besides the "x times more powerful" crap that Sony, MS and Nintendo have been throwing around is there any concrete evidence that the Revolution will be the least powered console - I mean the 360 is launching a year earlier - there's plenty of time for things to change. Even the design isn't finalized yet...
Why is Everyone ALREADY saying the Revolution will be the WEAKEST Next-gen Console??
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FriskyTanuki
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Because it doesn't work out as much as the others. PS3 and Xbox 360 are on ROIDS!
CapAmerica
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ya I don't get it as well. Untill Nintendo releases some specs we can't confirm where the Revolution is in the power area. For all we know the Revolution could be just as powerful as the Xbox360 or the PS3. We won't know till Nintendo tells us.
honeslty for me the power difference is not that signifigant. My concern is Nintendo's lack of interest or ability in creating games that appeal to me (pls no more mario, so sick of that stupid plumber). Also thier 3rd party development is lackluster compared to the other consoles. I mean I'm sure they will still have thier audience of fanboys who get thier jollies off Link or Samus.... but I don't share those setiments of fanaticism -_-
[quote name='sisco1986']Because you touch yourself at night.
Seriously, why do you give a damn what everyones saying? Wait for specs, then bitch.[/QUOTE]
Specs wouldn't even tell the whole story. It might be able to do 400 quadrillion polygons per millisecond, but if the texture bandwidth is crappy, none of the shapes will look good. Lets see what people can do with the systems.
Seriously, why do you give a damn what everyones saying? Wait for specs, then bitch.[/QUOTE]
Specs wouldn't even tell the whole story. It might be able to do 400 quadrillion polygons per millisecond, but if the texture bandwidth is crappy, none of the shapes will look good. Lets see what people can do with the systems.
sisco1986
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[quote name='fanskad']Specs wouldn't even tell the whole story. It might be able to do 400 quadrillion polygons per millisecond, but if the texture bandwidth is crappy, none of the shapes will look good. Lets see what people can do with the systems.[/QUOTE]
No really?? I didn't know that
, I'm simply stating why bitch and complain about what people are saying about a system that hasn't been even had it's techincal information laid out yet (let alone a demo), a console is a giant block of marble, what masterpiece you make of it is not dependent on the hardware, it's dependent on the skill (I'm a graphic art student, I know).
No really?? I didn't know that
, I'm simply stating why bitch and complain about what people are saying about a system that hasn't been even had it's techincal information laid out yet (let alone a demo), a console is a giant block of marble, what masterpiece you make of it is not dependent on the hardware, it's dependent on the skill (I'm a graphic art student, I know).
because its made for little kids, and little kids are weak.
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...
sisco1986
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[quote name='Cracka']because its made for little kids, and little kids are weak.
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
You've just unleased the holy rath of Nintendo Fanboys on this thread, may the gaming god's be with you..
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
You've just unleased the holy rath of Nintendo Fanboys on this thread, may the gaming god's be with you..
[quote name='Cracka']because its made for little kids, and little kids are weak.
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
Allow me to paraphrase for the lazy Nintendo fans out there:
hee hee...
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
Allow me to paraphrase for the lazy Nintendo fans out there:
hee hee...
Because people bitch and complain at the drop of a hat! How long have you been playing games? As long as there are more than one player in the biz there will be someone who complains about something.
But like I said Nintendo's own esimates put the new system only a little bit above the previous one while the other systems claim a dozen or more times above their last. On top of the fact that Nintendo seems to be going for some sort of weird new way of gaming which will automatically put them at a disadvanage compared to the tried and true way to play that everyone is used to, people can't help but bitch about it.
So relax, sit back and wait for the system to come out.
But like I said Nintendo's own esimates put the new system only a little bit above the previous one while the other systems claim a dozen or more times above their last. On top of the fact that Nintendo seems to be going for some sort of weird new way of gaming which will automatically put them at a disadvanage compared to the tried and true way to play that everyone is used to, people can't help but bitch about it.
So relax, sit back and wait for the system to come out.
I'm not a fanboy of any of the console companies (of the current gen TV-consoles, I only own an Xbox), but I must say I'm the most impressed with Nintendo's offering of the 3. THe focus on games, and not thumping the spec sheets is impressive.
We're just not going to see the jaw-dropping difference in graphics this time around that we've grown accustomed to. Companies are actually going to have to focus on game play rather than just looking pretty. Games are going to have to have FUN to support the hype and graphics (that right, I'm looking at you Halo 2!).
If the downloadable NES-N64 stuff is free, I'm buying a Revolution at launch. If its pay to play, I'll hold back and let the companies validate themselves in fun, good games.
We're just not going to see the jaw-dropping difference in graphics this time around that we've grown accustomed to. Companies are actually going to have to focus on game play rather than just looking pretty. Games are going to have to have FUN to support the hype and graphics (that right, I'm looking at you Halo 2!).
If the downloadable NES-N64 stuff is free, I'm buying a Revolution at launch. If its pay to play, I'll hold back and let the companies validate themselves in fun, good games.
Gameboy415
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[quote name='Cracka']because its made for little kids, and little kids are weak.
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
So its wrong for Nintendo to continue its great franchises but its perfectly fine for XBOX to brag about having Halo 3 and Perfect Dark Zero? And Devil May Cry 4, Gran Turismo 5, and
ing Grand Theft Auto: Rehash on PS3 are also fine? Face it, all the new consoles will be chock full of sequels.
Just because YOU think Nintendo games are for kids doesn't mean they're bad games. You're probably the kid who couldn't beat Super Mario Bros as a kid without using Game Genie and you have this lifelong bias against "kiddy", but hard (for you), games that EVERYONE else lovs. Your entire argument seems to be based on the idea that all Nintendo games are kiddy sequels that "no one likes". Here's a shocker for you:
NOT EVERYONE LIKES HALO AND GTA.
Whoah. Crazy, huh? Not everyone associates playing video games with being "EXTREME" and "BADASS" like you do, thank GOD. Games should be fun distractions from real life and nothing more.
If you think Nintendo games are for kids why don't you grow up and quit your childish whining.
Back on topic, I honestly could care less about which system is the "most powerful", I just want the one(s) with the best games. In this gen of consoles, I'm lucky enough to have all 3 and I spend the most time playing PS2 and Gamecube, the two "LESS POWERFUL" of the 3 consoles. With that said, I will without a doubt be getting a Revolution, GBA Micro, and probably a PS3. I have absolutely zero interest in XBOX 360 right now b/c not a single game that has been announced thus far interests me.
Just do it for the games people, stop worrying about graphics and power so much.
*resumes playing Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow*
lol maybe they'll launch with some more cool games like super mario squirtgun, or some more hello kitty something or other , pokemon poparatzi(sp), Animal crossing 2: who needs a life when you can pretend to be a cat, Wario Ware Revolution: why pay $50 for one fun game when you can have a million shitty ones for $39.99, Sonic the hedgehog 34, starring sonic the hedgehog, doing all the same as before, and just so they can sell their internet adapters they'll have one online game.. probably fantasy star...[/QUOTE]
So its wrong for Nintendo to continue its great franchises but its perfectly fine for XBOX to brag about having Halo 3 and Perfect Dark Zero? And Devil May Cry 4, Gran Turismo 5, and
ing Grand Theft Auto: Rehash on PS3 are also fine? Face it, all the new consoles will be chock full of sequels. Just because YOU think Nintendo games are for kids doesn't mean they're bad games. You're probably the kid who couldn't beat Super Mario Bros as a kid without using Game Genie and you have this lifelong bias against "kiddy", but hard (for you), games that EVERYONE else lovs. Your entire argument seems to be based on the idea that all Nintendo games are kiddy sequels that "no one likes". Here's a shocker for you:
NOT EVERYONE LIKES HALO AND GTA.
Whoah. Crazy, huh? Not everyone associates playing video games with being "EXTREME" and "BADASS" like you do, thank GOD. Games should be fun distractions from real life and nothing more.
If you think Nintendo games are for kids why don't you grow up and quit your childish whining.
Back on topic, I honestly could care less about which system is the "most powerful", I just want the one(s) with the best games. In this gen of consoles, I'm lucky enough to have all 3 and I spend the most time playing PS2 and Gamecube, the two "LESS POWERFUL" of the 3 consoles. With that said, I will without a doubt be getting a Revolution, GBA Micro, and probably a PS3. I have absolutely zero interest in XBOX 360 right now b/c not a single game that has been announced thus far interests me.
Just do it for the games people, stop worrying about graphics and power so much.
*resumes playing Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow*
Kain Vincent
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Anyone else feel that this topic reminds us of gamefaqs?
[quote name='Alpha2']Because people bitch and complain at the drop of a hat! How long have you been playing games? As long as there are more than one player in the biz there will be someone who complains about something.
But like I said Nintendo's own esimates put the new system only a little bit above the previous one while the other systems claim a dozen or more times above their last. On top of the fact that Nintendo seems to be going for some sort of weird new way of gaming which will automatically put them at a disadvanage compared to the tried and true way to play that everyone is used to, people can't help but bitch about it.
So relax, sit back and wait for the system to come out.[/QUOTE]
And as I have said, Nintendo's own past shows that they are likely underplaying the system's ability because A.) they want you to be impressed with the games, not the spec sheet and B.) because they want to blow your socks off when you actually do see it.
But like I said Nintendo's own esimates put the new system only a little bit above the previous one while the other systems claim a dozen or more times above their last. On top of the fact that Nintendo seems to be going for some sort of weird new way of gaming which will automatically put them at a disadvanage compared to the tried and true way to play that everyone is used to, people can't help but bitch about it.
So relax, sit back and wait for the system to come out.[/QUOTE]
And as I have said, Nintendo's own past shows that they are likely underplaying the system's ability because A.) they want you to be impressed with the games, not the spec sheet and B.) because they want to blow your socks off when you actually do see it.
Namelessloser
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i dont know why everyone is complaining. everyone has an opinion.
Me personally, I own all three consoles. At launch I had a PS2 and at the GC launch I got it.
I didnt get an XBOX until I discovered Halo. I dont have the DS nor the PSP because I dont like either at the moment.
As for the NR, I like the concept of having every single game for the Nintendo consoles out there. I also like having SSB online at the consoles release. I cant wait to see what the games will look like. I dont like Bill Gates assing around with sony by bringing out Halo 3 the day the PS3 is coming out.
I dont like how the PS3 looks, but one will most likely be inside my house lol. I will wait for a game I like for the XBOX360 like I did with it the last time.
Me personally, I own all three consoles. At launch I had a PS2 and at the GC launch I got it.
I didnt get an XBOX until I discovered Halo. I dont have the DS nor the PSP because I dont like either at the moment.
As for the NR, I like the concept of having every single game for the Nintendo consoles out there. I also like having SSB online at the consoles release. I cant wait to see what the games will look like. I dont like Bill Gates assing around with sony by bringing out Halo 3 the day the PS3 is coming out.
I dont like how the PS3 looks, but one will most likely be inside my house lol. I will wait for a game I like for the XBOX360 like I did with it the last time.
#Man, I'm watching the conference from today with sound, and it's just making nay-sayers seem like bitter old men. Listen to the applause generated when the Micro was pulled out, or the Backwards Compatibility was announced. You didn't get that at MS or Sony. Listen to Iwata talk. HE'S a gamer, not some Japanese guy in a suit, and not some trendy Hip-slacker.
Watch this presentation. They love what they do.
Watch this presentation. They love what they do.
[quote name='evilmax17']Man, I'm watching the conference from today with sound, and it's just making nay-sayers seem like bitter old men. Listen to the applause generated when the Micro was pulled out, or the Backwards Compatibility was announced. You didn't get that at MS or Sony. Listen to Iwata talk. HE'S a gamer, not some Japanese guy in a suit, and not some trendy Hip-slacker.
Watch this presentation. They love what they do.[/QUOTE]
no, he gets paid for what he does lol. Sounds like fanboy bait to me I don't mind people supporting the console thier like, just don't make it something it isn't =p.
Watch this presentation. They love what they do.[/QUOTE]
no, he gets paid for what he does lol. Sounds like fanboy bait to me
I don't mind people supporting the console thier like, just don't make it something it isn't =p.
Dr Mario Kart
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the mini-mac processors top out at like 1.4ghz dont they. And this thing is smaller than that? Dont you think Sony and MS would prefer smaller over larger consoles (especially MS)?
If true, its going to present a problem for multiplatform developers if they take FULL advantage of the PS3/360 hardware and then have to make a Revolution version.
And remember that processing power doesnt just help on the graphics end. AI and Physics are the next graphics.
If true, its going to present a problem for multiplatform developers if they take FULL advantage of the PS3/360 hardware and then have to make a Revolution version.
And remember that processing power doesnt just help on the graphics end. AI and Physics are the next graphics.
[quote name='Zoglog']no, he gets paid for what he does lol. Sounds like fanboy bait to me I don't mind people supporting the console thier like, just don't make it something it isn't =p.[/QUOTE]
Are you being silly/sarcastic, or do you not know Iwata's history?
I don't mind people supporting the console thier like, just don't make it something it isn't =p.[/QUOTE]Are you being silly/sarcastic, or do you not know Iwata's history?
[quote name='MorPhiend']And as I have said, Nintendo's own past shows that they are likely underplaying the system's ability because A.) they want you to be impressed with the games, not the spec sheet and B.) because they want to blow your socks off when you actually do see it.[/QUOTE]
You make it sound like you're trying to defend them as if I said something bad, it's not like 2 or 3 times more powerful is a bad thing. I don't remember the Cube's graphics sucking or anything. So what if they arnt as powerful a system, when they state they want to focus on gameplay. This is what they've chosen to focus on. They dont have the capital to fund the creation of new trillion dollar microprocessors like Sony and they haven't entered into any groundbreaking partnerships with anyone so it's not like they could ever logically compete on that level. These are things Nintendo themselves have said and that is why they focus on gameplay, because they feel that's where they excel.
You make it sound like you're trying to defend them as if I said something bad, it's not like 2 or 3 times more powerful is a bad thing. I don't remember the Cube's graphics sucking or anything. So what if they arnt as powerful a system, when they state they want to focus on gameplay. This is what they've chosen to focus on. They dont have the capital to fund the creation of new trillion dollar microprocessors like Sony and they haven't entered into any groundbreaking partnerships with anyone so it's not like they could ever logically compete on that level. These are things Nintendo themselves have said and that is why they focus on gameplay, because they feel that's where they excel.
adamsappel
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One of the possible scenarios out of this is the Revolution ending up with MORE third-party support next generation. If a game developer doesn't care to take two years and spend $10 million, and yet still make a damn nice-looking game (and can anyone really fault the graphical capability of the GameCube, let alone 2-3X better?) and sell reasonably well (I'm looking in Sega's direction, some of their Xbox games are far more suited to Nintendo's more eclectic audience), it might end up on Nintendo's Revolution by default.
Nintendo themselves have also said they feel their "revolution" may be a hinderance too since they're looking to be so different. The developers they get for the Revo are either going to be too small to produce for the big companies and their big systems or they might have interesting new ideas, but will those ideas be accepted by new, old, casual or even hardcore gamers?
No one knows and this puts them at a disadvantage even if they didn't already claim to have the weakest of the three systems graphically.
No one knows and this puts them at a disadvantage even if they didn't already claim to have the weakest of the three systems graphically.
Because you canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
Nintendo has indicated what the physical size of the unit will be and everything follows from there. We know it will contain a DVD drive, likely a slot loader similar to those used in Apple notebooks. That consumes several cubic inches of the interior right there. There will also be a pair of wireless hosts, one for networking and one for controllers. This will be at least one separate chip from the CPU and AV sections. Wireless isn't something that gets integrated in system processors due to potential ugliness with mixing analog with noisy digital logic.
So we're left with an awfully tight package. From Nintendo's description the entire thing will be smaller than just the cooling solution in the Xbox 360. (Likewise for the PS3 but we haven't been shown the interior of that yet.) This means the Revolution system board has to be very small and run extremely cool. Unless Nintendo is is going to have you store this thing in your refrigerator the size puts some severe limitations on the processing capacity. We know Nintendo is getting thei CPU and video chips from the same two vendors supplying those functions to the Xbox 360.
Shipping late next year may offer access to a smaller process level (65nm) than used for the 360 chips (90nm) but that won't come anywhere remotely close to allowing a comparable chipset in that tiny space. Ergo, it is unavoidable the Revolution chipset will occupy a lot less transistor real estate and correspondingly possess much less horsepower and functionality. There is no avoiding it.
Nintendo has indicated what the physical size of the unit will be and everything follows from there. We know it will contain a DVD drive, likely a slot loader similar to those used in Apple notebooks. That consumes several cubic inches of the interior right there. There will also be a pair of wireless hosts, one for networking and one for controllers. This will be at least one separate chip from the CPU and AV sections. Wireless isn't something that gets integrated in system processors due to potential ugliness with mixing analog with noisy digital logic.
So we're left with an awfully tight package. From Nintendo's description the entire thing will be smaller than just the cooling solution in the Xbox 360. (Likewise for the PS3 but we haven't been shown the interior of that yet.) This means the Revolution system board has to be very small and run extremely cool. Unless Nintendo is is going to have you store this thing in your refrigerator the size puts some severe limitations on the processing capacity. We know Nintendo is getting thei CPU and video chips from the same two vendors supplying those functions to the Xbox 360.
Shipping late next year may offer access to a smaller process level (65nm) than used for the 360 chips (90nm) but that won't come anywhere remotely close to allowing a comparable chipset in that tiny space. Ergo, it is unavoidable the Revolution chipset will occupy a lot less transistor real estate and correspondingly possess much less horsepower and functionality. There is no avoiding it.
[quote name='Zoglog']honeslty for me the power difference is not that signifigant. My concern is Nintendo's lack of interest or ability in creating games that appeal to me (pls no more mario, so sick of that stupid plumber). Also thier 3rd party development is lackluster compared to the other consoles. I mean I'm sure they will still have thier audience of fanboys who get thier jollies off Link or Samus.... but I don't share those setiments of fanaticism -_-[/QUOTE]
So whats the point of saying this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over get the point?
What multiplatform games would you have bought on the cube had they had them? Most people will have one system and be happy or have multiple systems. If you have multiple you have more than one due to exclusives not multiplatform titles.
Skip the revo. No biggie.
What I dont get is all these younger players thinking FPS's are the new rage. I was playing Doom online in the early early 90's. I mean its 15 years old now. But I dont hear that many people bitching about it. Blakestone, Wolfenstein, Lunicus, Heretic, Hexen, Duke Nukem, Sysem Shock, Doom, Redneck Rampage, These are all old game types of FPS's. Theres so many more that I cant think of right now.
I do agree they have to many games staring mario but he sells. I still look forward to the next true platformer he stars in. Which it seems to have taken a back seat to the new hybrid Mario Sport games and Mario Party games.
Nevertheless. Talk to any True gamer (in my book) and the classic games like ICO are the ones looked back upon. Not these same game wrapped in a different war FPS's.
I myself have become even lest interested in next generation since E3 happened over the last two days.
So whats the point of saying this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over get the point?
What multiplatform games would you have bought on the cube had they had them? Most people will have one system and be happy or have multiple systems. If you have multiple you have more than one due to exclusives not multiplatform titles.
Skip the revo. No biggie.
What I dont get is all these younger players thinking FPS's are the new rage. I was playing Doom online in the early early 90's. I mean its 15 years old now. But I dont hear that many people bitching about it. Blakestone, Wolfenstein, Lunicus, Heretic, Hexen, Duke Nukem, Sysem Shock, Doom, Redneck Rampage, These are all old game types of FPS's. Theres so many more that I cant think of right now.
I do agree they have to many games staring mario but he sells. I still look forward to the next true platformer he stars in. Which it seems to have taken a back seat to the new hybrid Mario Sport games and Mario Party games.
Nevertheless. Talk to any True gamer (in my book) and the classic games like ICO are the ones looked back upon. Not these same game wrapped in a different war FPS's.
I myself have become even lest interested in next generation since E3 happened over the last two days.
basketkase543
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[quote name='Grugger']Nintendo didn't reveal anything in their Press Conference. The main attraction was a DS game by the name of Nintendogs. So obviously Nintendo is either not ready or they are too ashamed to show the audience tech demos for the new console.[/QUOTE]
That was SOOO dissapointing. We'd already seen people play Nintendogs at the Game Developer's Conference (IIRC) and other places as well. Why would they spend so much time during a pivotal press conference making us watch someone play a game we already knew about? So we could see a little mini mario kart? Not worth it.
Either Nintendo has something so huge up their sleeves that they couldn't reveal anything or they are seriously running on empty. Here's to hoping that it's the former.
That was SOOO dissapointing. We'd already seen people play Nintendogs at the Game Developer's Conference (IIRC) and other places as well. Why would they spend so much time during a pivotal press conference making us watch someone play a game we already knew about? So we could see a little mini mario kart? Not worth it.
Either Nintendo has something so huge up their sleeves that they couldn't reveal anything or they are seriously running on empty. Here's to hoping that it's the former.
Quackzilla
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Nintendo isn't really focusing on gameplay.
There have been many Mario spinoffs for all of their ststems, but the last real Mario platformer game was Mario 64 (Sunshine doesn't count).
There have been many Mario spinoffs for all of their ststems, but the last real Mario platformer game was Mario 64 (Sunshine doesn't count).
basketkase543
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[quote name='Quackzilla']Nintendo isn't really focusing on gameplay.
There have been many Mario spinoffs for all of their ststems, but the last real Mario platformer game was Mario 64 (Sunshine doesn't count).[/QUOTE]
Sorry but there is no reason why Mario Sunshine wouldn't count if Maio 64 does.
There have been many Mario spinoffs for all of their ststems, but the last real Mario platformer game was Mario 64 (Sunshine doesn't count).[/QUOTE]
Sorry but there is no reason why Mario Sunshine wouldn't count if Maio 64 does.
bread's done