Why must everything be in Spanish?
- Thread starter eldergamer
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eldergamer
CAGiversary!
Which ought to make our hmong refugees and darfour and ghanna refugees feel real welcome and valued.
[quote name='dallow']Umm, it's pretty freakin' obvious why Spanish.
If that's all you wanted to know....
Important because $$$.
This isn't rocket science.[/quote]
[quote name='dallow']Umm, it's pretty freakin' obvious why Spanish.
If that's all you wanted to know....
Important because $$$.
This isn't rocket science.[/quote]
level1online
Banned
here's my assumption (get your reading glasses out):
We've been in the process of going into a North American Union for quite some time. and yes, the influx of mexicans is one of the methods being used to drive down our economy, wages, and the health care system. it's called problem-reaction-solution. the gov't creates the problem, by leaving our borders wide open. thus, eventually tanking our economy (alot of countries are dumping the dollar and going euro). at the same time, with the threat of "terrorism", it's only a matter of time before things get so bad that in order to save ourselves and to ensure "Security and Prosperity" (www.spp.gov) we'll have to form a "partnership" with canada and mexico. part of it is "harmonizing" our economies and security. there will be a fence built but, it will be along the southern border of mexico.
This whole "English press 1" , for "Spanish press 2", is to give mexicans the mindset that its ok for them to come here and throw down some anchor babies, because they will always be accomodated. after all, they're being funded by globalist bankers and corporations who want to bring about a one world economy (one currency = total control).
but remember, these plans aren't carried out overnight, they take many many years to fulfil. we're dealing with people that think in the long term. people that live to be 85-90 years old. And even if they don't live to see the plan fulfilled, they know their children will.
remember the immigration marches? the PR for that was done by Rob Allyn & Co. They got president Fox elected in Mexico for their 2000 election and did the PR to get Bush elected governer in Texas.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/140406bushlobbyist.htm
another fine article:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/010506mayday.htm
We've been in the process of going into a North American Union for quite some time. and yes, the influx of mexicans is one of the methods being used to drive down our economy, wages, and the health care system. it's called problem-reaction-solution. the gov't creates the problem, by leaving our borders wide open. thus, eventually tanking our economy (alot of countries are dumping the dollar and going euro). at the same time, with the threat of "terrorism", it's only a matter of time before things get so bad that in order to save ourselves and to ensure "Security and Prosperity" (www.spp.gov) we'll have to form a "partnership" with canada and mexico. part of it is "harmonizing" our economies and security. there will be a fence built but, it will be along the southern border of mexico.
This whole "English press 1" , for "Spanish press 2", is to give mexicans the mindset that its ok for them to come here and throw down some anchor babies, because they will always be accomodated. after all, they're being funded by globalist bankers and corporations who want to bring about a one world economy (one currency = total control).
but remember, these plans aren't carried out overnight, they take many many years to fulfil. we're dealing with people that think in the long term. people that live to be 85-90 years old. And even if they don't live to see the plan fulfilled, they know their children will.
remember the immigration marches? the PR for that was done by Rob Allyn & Co. They got president Fox elected in Mexico for their 2000 election and did the PR to get Bush elected governer in Texas.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/140406bushlobbyist.htm
another fine article:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/010506mayday.htm
Spanish is the second most spoken Western language next to English (and they're not very far apart). And obviously there are many Spanish-speaking countries in Central/South America and a large Spanish-speaking immigrant population.
All of those sound like good reasons to me.
I have seen some things that have English/Spanish/French on them (I imagine mostly because of Canada), but that's not as often and also only about 1/3 as many people speak French compared to Spanish.
Does it not seem logical to include Spanish?
All of those sound like good reasons to me.
I have seen some things that have English/Spanish/French on them (I imagine mostly because of Canada), but that's not as often and also only about 1/3 as many people speak French compared to Spanish.
Does it not seem logical to include Spanish?
elprincipe
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[quote name='SpazX']Spanish is the second most spoken Western language next to English (and they're not very far apart). And obviously there are many Spanish-speaking countries in Central/South America and a large Spanish-speaking immigrant population.
All of those sound like good reasons to me.
Does it not seem logical to include Spanish?[/QUOTE]
Mandarin Chinese is the most widely-spoken language in the world, with approximately twice as many speakers as English. And obviously there is a large Chinese-speaking immigrant population. Those sound like good reasons to me. Does it not seem logical to include Chinese?
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)
All of those sound like good reasons to me.
Does it not seem logical to include Spanish?[/QUOTE]
Mandarin Chinese is the most widely-spoken language in the world, with approximately twice as many speakers as English. And obviously there is a large Chinese-speaking immigrant population. Those sound like good reasons to me. Does it not seem logical to include Chinese?
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)
RollingSkull
Banned
level1online, you forgot the tinfoil hat.
Paco
CAGiversary!
[quote name='level1online']freetranslation.com - neat little website
C'mon guys! whats so wrong with Spanish? Don't you all at least want to know what all those hot chicks on Telemundo and Univision are saying?
ok... i guess not[/quote]
For white people, if they really knew what those hot spanish chicks were saying, the ratings in Telemundo and Univision would drop exponentially. It's far more exciting and hot to NOT know what they're saying. In a white persons mind the plot goes like this
Maria: I just slept with your brother
Juanita: FERNANDO?!
Maria: YES. I am sorry
Juanita: Fernando isn't my brother. That's MY FATHER!
Maria: EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA!
Fernando: ALL RIGHT GIGGEDY GIGGEDY GIGGEDY GOOOOOOOOO
Learning spanish makes the shows a hell of a lot more boring. Plus if you want to make a spanish soap opera here's some puzzle pieces
Maria
Fernando
Old Guy
Fat Guy
Fernando
Drug Lord
Kingpin
Lesbian sister
Poolboy
Crappy intro music.
C'mon guys! whats so wrong with Spanish? Don't you all at least want to know what all those hot chicks on Telemundo and Univision are saying?
ok... i guess not[/quote]
For white people, if they really knew what those hot spanish chicks were saying, the ratings in Telemundo and Univision would drop exponentially. It's far more exciting and hot to NOT know what they're saying. In a white persons mind the plot goes like this
Maria: I just slept with your brother
Juanita: FERNANDO?!
Maria: YES. I am sorry
Juanita: Fernando isn't my brother. That's MY FATHER!
Maria: EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA!
Fernando: ALL RIGHT GIGGEDY GIGGEDY GIGGEDY GOOOOOOOOO
Learning spanish makes the shows a hell of a lot more boring. Plus if you want to make a spanish soap opera here's some puzzle pieces
Maria
Fernando
Old Guy
Fat Guy
Fernando
Drug Lord
Kingpin
Lesbian sister
Poolboy
Crappy intro music.
level1online
Banned
[quote name='RollingSkull']level1online, you forgot the tinfoil hat.[/quote]
I OBJECT! AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
at least i posted some articles with factual information to support what i'm saying...
c'mon phoenix wright! what you got? what you got???
ps, lou dobbs has gone over this extensively
I OBJECT! AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
at least i posted some articles with factual information to support what i'm saying...
c'mon phoenix wright! what you got? what you got???
ps, lou dobbs has gone over this extensively
[quote name='elprincipe']Mandarin Chinese is the most widely-spoken language in the world, with approximately twice as many speakers as English. And obviously there is a large Chinese-speaking immigrant population. Those sound like good reasons to me. Does it not seem logical to include Chinese?
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)[/quote]
Not as large as Spanish, in the US.
You missed the point.
[quote name='elder bigot, tee hee']Which ought to make our hmong refugees and darfour and ghanna refugees feel real welcome and valued.[/QUOTE]
Business don't care unless there's enough that can provide the cash.
You pander to the majority. And the majority... of the minority, is Spanish.
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)[/quote]
Not as large as Spanish, in the US.
You missed the point.
[quote name='elder bigot, tee hee']Which ought to make our hmong refugees and darfour and ghanna refugees feel real welcome and valued.[/QUOTE]
Business don't care unless there's enough that can provide the cash.
You pander to the majority. And the majority... of the minority, is Spanish.
RollingSkull
Banned
[quote name='level1online']I OBJECT! AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
at least i posted some articles with factual information to support what i'm saying...
c'mon phoenix wright! what you got? what you got???
ps, lou dobbs has gone over this extensively[/quote]
Yes, Lou Dobbs HAS gone over it, and so has Senator Tom Tancredo. I'm for enforcing the immigration laws as much as the next Conservative, but even I don't think there exists a cabal of governmental moneymen willing to purposely, and so artistically indirectly bring about a North American Union. Hell, the Bush administration has shown itself time and again to not be competent enough to mount a secretive campaign of such magnitude. As a policy, I do not think it was to attribute to bad faith, under the table manipulation what can just as easily be attributed to incompetence and political inertia. To me, the ideas you speak of are conspiracy theories.
Though I will say this: In the unlikely event that the version of events you describe between Fox and Bush is true, then that means that Bush has been able to outwit the better part of everyone in this country, and for that he probably deserves another two or three terms in office. He'd be the only politician in decades who had the balls to effect actual change.
at least i posted some articles with factual information to support what i'm saying...
c'mon phoenix wright! what you got? what you got???
ps, lou dobbs has gone over this extensively[/quote]
Yes, Lou Dobbs HAS gone over it, and so has Senator Tom Tancredo. I'm for enforcing the immigration laws as much as the next Conservative, but even I don't think there exists a cabal of governmental moneymen willing to purposely, and so artistically indirectly bring about a North American Union. Hell, the Bush administration has shown itself time and again to not be competent enough to mount a secretive campaign of such magnitude. As a policy, I do not think it was to attribute to bad faith, under the table manipulation what can just as easily be attributed to incompetence and political inertia. To me, the ideas you speak of are conspiracy theories.
Though I will say this: In the unlikely event that the version of events you describe between Fox and Bush is true, then that means that Bush has been able to outwit the better part of everyone in this country, and for that he probably deserves another two or three terms in office. He'd be the only politician in decades who had the balls to effect actual change.
A united western hemisphere would give us tremendous leverage over the special interests of the rest of the world, namely Russia, the EU,. China, and the major Arab and Islamic Opec nations.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".
[quote name='elprincipe']Mandarin Chinese is the most widely-spoken language in the world, with approximately twice as many speakers as English. And obviously there is a large Chinese-speaking immigrant population. Those sound like good reasons to me. Does it not seem logical to include Chinese?
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)[/quote]
You disappoint me.
(repeat ad nauseum for Hindi, Bengali, Korean, etc etc)[/quote]
You disappoint me.
Kayden
Banned
But... dey tuk oor jawbz...
[quote name='bmulligan']A united western hemisphere would give us tremendous leverage over the special interests of the rest of the world, namely Russia, the EU,. China, and the major Arab and Islamic Opec nations.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
[quote name='bmulligan']A united western hemisphere would give us tremendous leverage over the special interests of the rest of the world, namely Russia, the EU,. China, and the major Arab and Islamic Opec nations.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
RollingSkull
Banned
[quote name='bmulligan']A united western hemisphere would give us tremendous leverage over the special interests of the rest of the world, namely Russia, the EU,. China, and the major Arab and Islamic Opec nations.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
Oh, that's DEFINITELY it. Because annexing countries is SO in style in the current political climate.
Question though: Aren't you overstating the economic advantages of a annexing country whose millions of poverty stricken individuals must flee to the US to avoid the corrupt shithole that is the Mexican socio-economic system?
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
Oh, that's DEFINITELY it. Because annexing countries is SO in style in the current political climate.
Question though: Aren't you overstating the economic advantages of a annexing country whose millions of poverty stricken individuals must flee to the US to avoid the corrupt shithole that is the Mexican socio-economic system?
level1online
Banned
[quote name='RollingSkull']Hell, the Bush administration has shown itself time and again to not be competent enough to mount a secretive campaign of such magnitude. [/quote]
You're confusing incompetence for something else. There is no secretive campaign, it's all being done in your face, YOU just need to know where to look.
You're a very smart guy, I've read some of your posts. You write a heck of a lot more eloquently than me.
I'm not saying that Bush and his minions are mastermind geniuses who have fooled us all, but I do believe they are the front men for some very very powerful business people. So powerful that they don't waste their time answering questions from the public. Take a look at the Trilateral Commision, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, Carlyle Group, IMF, World Bank, Federal Reserve... the list goes on...
And in particular: Zbigniew Brzezinski and David Rockefeller
I just picked up his book The Grand Chestboard.
Are those guys getting grilled each night on the news network (Fox/Cnn) (left/right gatekeepers)?
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/clinton_barbara_bush_calls_clinton_son.htm
You're confusing incompetence for something else. There is no secretive campaign, it's all being done in your face, YOU just need to know where to look.
You're a very smart guy, I've read some of your posts. You write a heck of a lot more eloquently than me.
I'm not saying that Bush and his minions are mastermind geniuses who have fooled us all, but I do believe they are the front men for some very very powerful business people. So powerful that they don't waste their time answering questions from the public. Take a look at the Trilateral Commision, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group, Carlyle Group, IMF, World Bank, Federal Reserve... the list goes on...
And in particular: Zbigniew Brzezinski and David Rockefeller
I just picked up his book The Grand Chestboard.
Are those guys getting grilled each night on the news network (Fox/Cnn) (left/right gatekeepers)?
http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/clinton_barbara_bush_calls_clinton_son.htm
level1online
Banned
hmm[quote name='bmulligan']A united western hemisphere would give us tremendous leverage over the special interests of the rest of the world, namely Russia, the EU,. China, and the major Arab and Islamic Opec nations.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
That's some really good globalist poopaganda coming out of your mouth, lol
whatever ever happened to a little thing called sovereignty?
btw, i'm a "brown person" too.
A major initiative to teach Spanish in public schools would be a small investment that could pay priceless dividends in the future.
It would be the best way to foster our common interests, build relationships, and unite our peoples.
In 50-80 years, we could annex Mexico and central america, add 40 states to the Union, and be the most formidable economic powerhouse the world has ever seen.
Unfortunately, all you white, pasty, egocentric gringos are to afraid of the brownies to realize our full potential as "Americans".[/quote]
That's some really good globalist poopaganda coming out of your mouth, lol
whatever ever happened to a little thing called sovereignty?
btw, i'm a "brown person" too.
RollingSkull
Banned
[quote name='level1online']Zbigniew Brzezinski[/quote]
Geshundheit.
Seriously though, you ain't too shabby in the brainpower department yourself, so I'll hear you out. What are these business folks' endgames? Why unite the western hemisphere? Mexico ain't exactly an economic powerhouse...
Geshundheit.
Seriously though, you ain't too shabby in the brainpower department yourself, so I'll hear you out. What are these business folks' endgames? Why unite the western hemisphere? Mexico ain't exactly an economic powerhouse...
level1online
Banned
[quote name='RollingSkull']Geshundheit.
Seriously though, you ain't too shabby in the brainpower department yourself, so I'll hear you out. What are these business folks' endgames? Why unite the western hemisphere? Mexico ain't exactly an economic powerhouse...[/quote]
in short...
The end game in regards to this country, it is drive down our economy to second, possibly third world status. For the business folks, it is to make record profits no matter what the cost. They are convinced that there is more money to be made by bringing in cheap labor from mexico, having foreign countries buy up our infrastructure (toll roads, bridges, ports, etc), and outsourcing our military. Forming a "partnership" with mexico and canada offers the least resistance and actually facilitates the process.
the before:
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2006/sept06/06-09-06.html
(disregard the conservative bashing in the beginning)
the after:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107buyssilence.htm
in my opinion, the ultimate ultimate end game is a 1984 scenario... but worse. Like Super Hyper 1984 Fighter II Turbo Championship Edition, lol. "Speak up against authority? Simple, your sub dermal chip gets turned off. good luck buying and selling... simple as that, no need to strap you down and force you to recite 2+2=5."
here's an article about internment camps in this country:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/010306gulagsforamericans.htm
but i don't agree with the article, when it states that it will be used on political dissidents first. rather, i believe it will be used on muslims in the event of a major attack, to set a precedent. same way how the japanese were used to set an example in wwII
Seriously though, you ain't too shabby in the brainpower department yourself, so I'll hear you out. What are these business folks' endgames? Why unite the western hemisphere? Mexico ain't exactly an economic powerhouse...[/quote]
in short...
The end game in regards to this country, it is drive down our economy to second, possibly third world status. For the business folks, it is to make record profits no matter what the cost. They are convinced that there is more money to be made by bringing in cheap labor from mexico, having foreign countries buy up our infrastructure (toll roads, bridges, ports, etc), and outsourcing our military. Forming a "partnership" with mexico and canada offers the least resistance and actually facilitates the process.
the before:
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2006/sept06/06-09-06.html
(disregard the conservative bashing in the beginning)
the after:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107buyssilence.htm
in my opinion, the ultimate ultimate end game is a 1984 scenario... but worse. Like Super Hyper 1984 Fighter II Turbo Championship Edition, lol. "Speak up against authority? Simple, your sub dermal chip gets turned off. good luck buying and selling... simple as that, no need to strap you down and force you to recite 2+2=5."
here's an article about internment camps in this country:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/010306gulagsforamericans.htm
but i don't agree with the article, when it states that it will be used on political dissidents first. rather, i believe it will be used on muslims in the event of a major attack, to set a precedent. same way how the japanese were used to set an example in wwII
elprincipe
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[quote name='SpazX']You disappoint me.[/QUOTE]
Great argument, you've sure opened my eyes.
Great argument, you've sure opened my eyes.
eldergamer
CAGiversary!
Is american business interests so afraid of loosing or offeding the spanish dollar the reason for the need to include spanish at the checkout, phone trees, instructions, etc.
Or... (devil's advocate) does corporate america/business interests assume the spanish speaking population is not intelligent enough to learn to speak english?
Or... (devil's advocate) does corporate america/business interests assume the spanish speaking population is not intelligent enough to learn to speak english?
[quote name='RollingSkull']Oh, that's DEFINITELY it. Because annexing countries is SO in style in the current political climate.
Question though: Aren't you overstating the economic advantages of a annexing country whose millions of poverty stricken individuals must flee to the US to avoid the corrupt shithole that is the Mexican socio-economic system?[/QUOTE]
My proposal was mostly tongue-in-cheek. But, since we can't stop everyone coming to the United States, why not just take the United States to them? Illegal immigration is tantamount to an invasion, so the government should figure out a way to protect us - Israeli style!
Question though: Aren't you overstating the economic advantages of a annexing country whose millions of poverty stricken individuals must flee to the US to avoid the corrupt shithole that is the Mexican socio-economic system?[/QUOTE]
My proposal was mostly tongue-in-cheek. But, since we can't stop everyone coming to the United States, why not just take the United States to them? Illegal immigration is tantamount to an invasion, so the government should figure out a way to protect us - Israeli style!
[quote name='SpazX']Unless you cut off your logic or were drunk I don't understand why you would respond to my post in such a way. RollingSkull or evanft maybe, but not you.[/QUOTE]
I really like getting mentioned.
But, concerning this topic, you're right. There are signs and what not in Spanish because there are large number of people in the United States who speak Spanish as their first language or they are vastly more fluent in Spanish than in English. While I certainly think that if you immigrate to this country it's not an unreasonable requirement that you learn English, it still makes a lot of sense to have the signs to help those who are in the process of learning the language.
Most of the people who have a problem with it can't really form a reasonable argument other than "BUT DAT AINT ENGEHS!!!", so this discussion is almost not worth having.
I really like getting mentioned.
But, concerning this topic, you're right. There are signs and what not in Spanish because there are large number of people in the United States who speak Spanish as their first language or they are vastly more fluent in Spanish than in English. While I certainly think that if you immigrate to this country it's not an unreasonable requirement that you learn English, it still makes a lot of sense to have the signs to help those who are in the process of learning the language.
Most of the people who have a problem with it can't really form a reasonable argument other than "BUT DAT AINT ENGEHS!!!", so this discussion is almost not worth having.
In my town hispanics and blacks live in the communities together. The spanish speaking only adults pretty much do stick to each other and if they need a translator their kids are the ones to do it (they teach english to the kids in school). You pretty much can't get a job here if you aren't bilingual now. As an adult it's hard for me to learn spanish. I took spanish for a couple years in Highschool and can't remember very much of it, just a little bit. I'm almost done getting my degree but for the job I want I'm going to have to pretty much learn spanish again. I guess I don't mind, I think knowing more than one language makes you seem intelligent
. I want my kids to learn while it is easier for them so they are prepared for their adult life.
I posted this in another thread a while back and edited it a little:
"What about higher product costs. For example, frozen food now has instructions in English and Spanish. More ink on the box, plus the costs of having to re-design the box to include the Spanish. Stores like Best Buy also have Spanish versions of their websites which cost money to develop so the costs have to come from somewhere. Yeah it's not a huge deal but it's more of the fact Spanish only speakers are being catered too and have no reason to learn English which bothers me when every other non English speaking group had to learn English when they came to the US or at least know that everything would not be in their language. What's going to happen years from know when you have a larger and larger percentage of the population that doesn't speak English?"
I also don't like that in some areas of the country you can't get a job even at a place like McDonald's unless you know both English and Spanish as the post above also mentioned. A family member lived in Miami and told me he couldn't even go to a deli and order because no one spoke English and hoped he said his order correctly in Spanish and got the right order.
"What about higher product costs. For example, frozen food now has instructions in English and Spanish. More ink on the box, plus the costs of having to re-design the box to include the Spanish. Stores like Best Buy also have Spanish versions of their websites which cost money to develop so the costs have to come from somewhere. Yeah it's not a huge deal but it's more of the fact Spanish only speakers are being catered too and have no reason to learn English which bothers me when every other non English speaking group had to learn English when they came to the US or at least know that everything would not be in their language. What's going to happen years from know when you have a larger and larger percentage of the population that doesn't speak English?"
I also don't like that in some areas of the country you can't get a job even at a place like McDonald's unless you know both English and Spanish as the post above also mentioned. A family member lived in Miami and told me he couldn't even go to a deli and order because no one spoke English and hoped he said his order correctly in Spanish and got the right order.
elprincipe
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[quote name='SpazX']Unless you cut off your logic or were drunk I don't understand why you would respond to my post in such a way. RollingSkull or evanft maybe, but not you.[/QUOTE]
I think grouping RollingSkull with evanft is a mistake...kind of like grouping mykevermin with alonzomourning23 (Note: I am not trying to say anything derogatory about any of these folks).
I was arguing the slippery slope argument. What's to say other groups besides Spanish speakers can't convincingly make the same argument? Yes, obviously Spanish is the most common language here other than English, but there are other languages that are spoken in immigrant families. Here's a quick look at numbers:
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
Spanish = 17.3m
French = 1.70m
German = 1.54m
Italian = 1.30m
Chinese = 1.25m
But looking further at the numbers provided, note that 4.5m Spanish speakers (26%) speak English "not well" or "not at all." That is a huge, huge number. For comparison, around 158,000 French (9%) and 101,000 German (6.5%) speakers speak English "not well" or "not at all," although 30% of Chinese speakers fall into this category. But it goes down the line on these stats (Tagalog = 7.5%, Polish = 13.6%, Japanese 21.3%). There are other groups that are at or above the ratio for Spanish, so not singling Spanish speakers out (heck, I studied Spanish in school and regularly watch soccer on Univision/Telemundo/etc), but this is a problem for our country.
The gist of it is that I think it's great that people know other languages, as long as they know enough English to get by in everyday life. I completely suck at learning other languages so I fully sympathize, but our society and economic system is most well-ordered, efficient and harmonized when everyone can communicate with everyone else. Therefore, while I have no big beef with companies putting Spanish on boxes if they want (quite frankly, companies with mottoes such as "Eat Good" and "Where You At?" distress me quite a bit more), I feel that people living in isolation from the rest of society and "keeping to their own kind" is something we should be avoiding (see: France), and not knowing English is a huge, huge contributor to this phenomenon.
I think grouping RollingSkull with evanft is a mistake...kind of like grouping mykevermin with alonzomourning23 (Note: I am not trying to say anything derogatory about any of these folks).
I was arguing the slippery slope argument. What's to say other groups besides Spanish speakers can't convincingly make the same argument? Yes, obviously Spanish is the most common language here other than English, but there are other languages that are spoken in immigrant families. Here's a quick look at numbers:
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
Spanish = 17.3m
French = 1.70m
German = 1.54m
Italian = 1.30m
Chinese = 1.25m
But looking further at the numbers provided, note that 4.5m Spanish speakers (26%) speak English "not well" or "not at all." That is a huge, huge number. For comparison, around 158,000 French (9%) and 101,000 German (6.5%) speakers speak English "not well" or "not at all," although 30% of Chinese speakers fall into this category. But it goes down the line on these stats (Tagalog = 7.5%, Polish = 13.6%, Japanese 21.3%). There are other groups that are at or above the ratio for Spanish, so not singling Spanish speakers out (heck, I studied Spanish in school and regularly watch soccer on Univision/Telemundo/etc), but this is a problem for our country.
The gist of it is that I think it's great that people know other languages, as long as they know enough English to get by in everyday life. I completely suck at learning other languages so I fully sympathize, but our society and economic system is most well-ordered, efficient and harmonized when everyone can communicate with everyone else. Therefore, while I have no big beef with companies putting Spanish on boxes if they want (quite frankly, companies with mottoes such as "Eat Good" and "Where You At?" distress me quite a bit more), I feel that people living in isolation from the rest of society and "keeping to their own kind" is something we should be avoiding (see: France), and not knowing English is a huge, huge contributor to this phenomenon.
[quote name='elprincipe']I think grouping RollingSkull with evanft is a mistake...kind of like grouping mykevermin with alonzomourning23 (Note: I am not trying to say anything derogatory about any of these folks).
I was arguing the slippery slope argument. What's to say other groups besides Spanish speakers can't convincingly make the same argument? Yes, obviously Spanish is the most common language here other than English, but there are other languages that are spoken in immigrant families. Here's a quick look at numbers:
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
Spanish = 17.3m
French = 1.70m
German = 1.54m
Italian = 1.30m
Chinese = 1.25m
But looking further at the numbers provided, note that 4.5m Spanish speakers (26%) speak English "not well" or "not at all." That is a huge, huge number. For comparison, around 158,000 French (9%) and 101,000 German (6.5%) speakers speak English "not well" or "not at all," although 30% of Chinese speakers fall into this category. But it goes down the line on these stats (Tagalog = 7.5%, Polish = 13.6%, Japanese 21.3%). There are other groups that are at or above the ratio for Spanish, so not singling Spanish speakers out (heck, I studied Spanish in school and regularly watch soccer on Univision/Telemundo/etc), but this is a problem for our country.
The gist of it is that I think it's great that people know other languages, as long as they know enough English to get by in everyday life. I completely suck at learning other languages so I fully sympathize, but our society and economic system is most well-ordered, efficient and harmonized when everyone can communicate with everyone else. Therefore, while I have no big beef with companies putting Spanish on boxes if they want (quite frankly, companies with mottoes such as "Eat Good" and "Where You At?" distress me quite a bit more), I feel that people living in isolation from the rest of society and "keeping to their own kind" is something we should be avoiding (see: France), and not knowing English is a huge, huge contributor to this phenomenon.[/quote]
Well my comparison was just that they both have the habit of writing things that don't necessarily make sense just to be a smartass or something (though not all the time).
I see what you're saying now, but in this situation I think pure numbers are more relevant than percentages and Spanish wins that in spades. More than the immigrant population there is Central and South America where a lot of people speak Spanish and I think it's the combination that makes it the most reasonable.
I'm not saying that they should'nt be trying to learn English, but realistically most people that immigrate from Central/South America that are looking for job/education opportunities for their children are probably never going to be able to learn English past the "not well" stage (and since the survey was a self-report it all depends on what the individual thinks that means). They'll probably have shit to do. It seems to me that that is one of the main reasons that people immigrate from that part of the world as opposed to France, Germany, or Italy where the people are probably already educated. I imagine the reasons for Chinese immigration are similar to Hispanic ones and why they have a high percentage of non-English speaking people, but yeah, the numbers just aren't very high and there aren't any bordering countries with high Chinese-speaking populations or anything (also there are far more first-generation immigrants from China and Central/South America than from France, Germany, and Italy).
I don't necessarily think that putting some things in Spanish will make it more likely for immigrants to isolate themselves. If you can get statistics for that then that's cool, but I'd think the reasons for isolation are much more complicated than that. And as I said there's a possibility that it could take some people out of isolation since they wouldn't need as much of an understanding of English to function outside and they could just move to the suburbs (provided they have the economic ability and the realtors don't steer them away) and understand English enough to function, but read the Spanish in stores, etc. But I'm not sure it would really have much of an effect at all on isolation. A lot of the 19th century isolation of Irish, Jewish, Italian, Chinese, etc. immigrants were because the WASPs didn't want to have anything to do with them and they felt that they had to stick together.
So yeah, read that big rambling hunk of shit.
I was arguing the slippery slope argument. What's to say other groups besides Spanish speakers can't convincingly make the same argument? Yes, obviously Spanish is the most common language here other than English, but there are other languages that are spoken in immigrant families. Here's a quick look at numbers:
http://www.ethnicharvest.org/regions/50languages.html
Spanish = 17.3m
French = 1.70m
German = 1.54m
Italian = 1.30m
Chinese = 1.25m
But looking further at the numbers provided, note that 4.5m Spanish speakers (26%) speak English "not well" or "not at all." That is a huge, huge number. For comparison, around 158,000 French (9%) and 101,000 German (6.5%) speakers speak English "not well" or "not at all," although 30% of Chinese speakers fall into this category. But it goes down the line on these stats (Tagalog = 7.5%, Polish = 13.6%, Japanese 21.3%). There are other groups that are at or above the ratio for Spanish, so not singling Spanish speakers out (heck, I studied Spanish in school and regularly watch soccer on Univision/Telemundo/etc), but this is a problem for our country.
The gist of it is that I think it's great that people know other languages, as long as they know enough English to get by in everyday life. I completely suck at learning other languages so I fully sympathize, but our society and economic system is most well-ordered, efficient and harmonized when everyone can communicate with everyone else. Therefore, while I have no big beef with companies putting Spanish on boxes if they want (quite frankly, companies with mottoes such as "Eat Good" and "Where You At?" distress me quite a bit more), I feel that people living in isolation from the rest of society and "keeping to their own kind" is something we should be avoiding (see: France), and not knowing English is a huge, huge contributor to this phenomenon.[/quote]
Well my comparison was just that they both have the habit of writing things that don't necessarily make sense just to be a smartass or something (though not all the time).
I see what you're saying now, but in this situation I think pure numbers are more relevant than percentages and Spanish wins that in spades. More than the immigrant population there is Central and South America where a lot of people speak Spanish and I think it's the combination that makes it the most reasonable.
I'm not saying that they should'nt be trying to learn English, but realistically most people that immigrate from Central/South America that are looking for job/education opportunities for their children are probably never going to be able to learn English past the "not well" stage (and since the survey was a self-report it all depends on what the individual thinks that means). They'll probably have shit to do. It seems to me that that is one of the main reasons that people immigrate from that part of the world as opposed to France, Germany, or Italy where the people are probably already educated. I imagine the reasons for Chinese immigration are similar to Hispanic ones and why they have a high percentage of non-English speaking people, but yeah, the numbers just aren't very high and there aren't any bordering countries with high Chinese-speaking populations or anything (also there are far more first-generation immigrants from China and Central/South America than from France, Germany, and Italy).
I don't necessarily think that putting some things in Spanish will make it more likely for immigrants to isolate themselves. If you can get statistics for that then that's cool, but I'd think the reasons for isolation are much more complicated than that. And as I said there's a possibility that it could take some people out of isolation since they wouldn't need as much of an understanding of English to function outside and they could just move to the suburbs (provided they have the economic ability and the realtors don't steer them away) and understand English enough to function, but read the Spanish in stores, etc. But I'm not sure it would really have much of an effect at all on isolation. A lot of the 19th century isolation of Irish, Jewish, Italian, Chinese, etc. immigrants were because the WASPs didn't want to have anything to do with them and they felt that they had to stick together.
So yeah, read that big rambling hunk of shit.
RollingSkull
Banned
Level1, I'll get to reading those articles in full here soon (Once I get myself time to read such things.), but the excerpts I've glanced over still strike me as interpreting the aims of bigwig moneymen in the most broadest, conspiratorial strokes.
eldergamer
CAGiversary!
I really think that most companies best buy, sears, verizon, wal-mart etc are just so afraid of offending their imigrant customers that they feel it's necessary to include spanish on everything.
It may not have even been the immigrants requesting the language help.
That sort of attitude that
1. Spanish speaking people for some reason need to be accomidated ( given special treatment) in American/English speaking stores.
2. Business feel that if they don't include an option for spanish they run the risk of offending latino/hispanic customers. (Have you heard of anyone suing wal-mart/target/etc because their website/b&m/phones etc didnt have a spanish option?)
It may not have even been the immigrants requesting the language help.
That sort of attitude that
1. Spanish speaking people for some reason need to be accomidated ( given special treatment) in American/English speaking stores.
2. Business feel that if they don't include an option for spanish they run the risk of offending latino/hispanic customers. (Have you heard of anyone suing wal-mart/target/etc because their website/b&m/phones etc didnt have a spanish option?)
To answer question 2, no but I am guessing it's only a matter of time before some company or store is sued. I can see a product that could be dangerous if used incorrectly injuring someone and then they sue because the product only had English instructions on it. The sad part is they would probably win a lawsuit.
elprincipe
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[quote name='YoshiFan1']To answer question 2, no but I am guessing it's only a matter of time before some company or store is sued. I can see a product that could be dangerous if used incorrectly injuring someone and then they sue because the product only had English instructions on it. The sad part is they would probably win a lawsuit.[/QUOTE]
There have definitely been plenty of lawsuits about ballots and voting information not being available in Spanish (and other languages) in certain places. Heck, where I live they offer Spanish versions of election/voting information on their website (here: http://www.co.arlington.va.us/Departments/VoterRegistration/VoterRegistrationMain.aspx ), even though to be a citizen you are supposed to be fluent in English. I suspect a lot of places are run in a similar fashion.
Thinking about it further, I recall hearing about a store that was sued because they had a sign up saying "for service speak English" because none of the staff spoke Spanish and they were sick of not being able to communicate with people. Here's an article:
http://www.rense.com/general67/bias.htm
There have definitely been plenty of lawsuits about ballots and voting information not being available in Spanish (and other languages) in certain places. Heck, where I live they offer Spanish versions of election/voting information on their website (here: http://www.co.arlington.va.us/Departments/VoterRegistration/VoterRegistrationMain.aspx ), even though to be a citizen you are supposed to be fluent in English. I suspect a lot of places are run in a similar fashion.
Thinking about it further, I recall hearing about a store that was sued because they had a sign up saying "for service speak English" because none of the staff spoke Spanish and they were sick of not being able to communicate with people. Here's an article:
http://www.rense.com/general67/bias.htm
^ I just read that 2nd link and I don't see how they can claim that is discrimination since they didn't say no Spanish specifically and aren't refusuing to serve anyone based on race since it sounds like they would have served someone who is Hispanic who can speak English.
Kayden
Banned
Anytime you do anything that affects a Mexican negatively its discrimination. If there was an amendment requiring people to speak English both to get in this country and when out in public, it would be a racist law against all the poor illegal hispanics.
em.
[quote name='YoshiFan1']^ I just read that 2nd link and I don't see how they can claim that is discrimination since they didn't say no Spanish specifically and aren't refusuing to serve anyone based on race since it sounds like they would have served someone who is Hispanic who can speak English.[/quote]
em.[quote name='YoshiFan1']^ I just read that 2nd link and I don't see how they can claim that is discrimination since they didn't say no Spanish specifically and aren't refusuing to serve anyone based on race since it sounds like they would have served someone who is Hispanic who can speak English.[/quote]
elprincipe
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[quote name='Kayden']Anytime you do anything that affects a Mexican negatively its discrimination. If there was an amendment requiring people to speak English both to get in this country and when out in public, it would be a racist law against all the poor illegal hispanics.
em.[/QUOTE]
Oh dear. Are you trying to fit in with the stereotype that some people ascribe to those who want English made the official language?
em.[/QUOTE]Oh dear. Are you trying to fit in with the stereotype that some people ascribe to those who want English made the official language?
Kayden
Banned
No, I'm just saying that when anyone has a chance to benefit from playing the victim, they will whether they're actually affected or not.
[quote name='elprincipe']Oh dear. Are you trying to fit in with the stereotype that some people ascribe to those who want English made the official language?[/quote]
[quote name='elprincipe']Oh dear. Are you trying to fit in with the stereotype that some people ascribe to those who want English made the official language?[/quote]
elprincipe
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[quote name='Kayden']No, I'm just saying that when anyone has a chance to benefit from playing the victim, they will whether they're actually affected or not.[/QUOTE]
Sounded to me like you were suggesting doing away with the First Amendment by forcing people to speak English in public, then saying " em" in reference to Mexicans.
Sounded to me like you were suggesting doing away with the First Amendment by forcing people to speak English in public, then saying "
em" in reference to Mexicans.Oh hell, most people don't even speak english anyway. They go around all day mumbling through their speech, saying things like , "dis 'n dat" "ain be gowin' to da sto" and "U R teh suxxors!"
So I guess signs in proper, grammatically correct english is already an affront to 98% of the population.
So I guess signs in proper, grammatically correct english is already an affront to 98% of the population.
elprincipe
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[quote name='bmulligan']So I guess signs in proper, grammatically correct english is already an affront to 98% of the population.[/QUOTE]
I hope you did that one on purpose.
I hope you did that one on purpose.
eldergamer
CAGiversary!
But if you went to Mexico would you expect the signs and telephones to give you the option of English?
[quote name='eldergamer']But if you went to Mexico would you expect the signs and telephones to give you the option of English?[/quote]Yeah, you're getting so worked up over nothing.
YES, when I've been to Mexico, Costa Rica, and even Peru, I see signs in English to help the English speakers.
And they're there for the same reason they're here. Money.
ZOMG!!!
YES, when I've been to Mexico, Costa Rica, and even Peru, I see signs in English to help the English speakers.
And they're there for the same reason they're here. Money.
ZOMG!!!
eldergamer
CAGiversary!
It's not just the touristy areas here. It's every city and every 1-800 # and every instruction manual.
And, it wasn't here 5-10 years ago. It's us changing our ways as opposed to them changing theirs. That's not american.
There should be a merging of cultures. Having the option of Spanish or English is not a merge. It's the complete oposite.
And, it wasn't here 5-10 years ago. It's us changing our ways as opposed to them changing theirs. That's not american.
There should be a merging of cultures. Having the option of Spanish or English is not a merge. It's the complete oposite.
eldergamer
CAGiversary!
There's a big difference between helping and abetting.
Hand up, not a hand out.
Hand up, not a hand out.
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='eldergamer']I really think that most companies best buy, sears, verizon, wal-mart etc are just so afraid of offending their imigrant customers that they feel it's necessary to include spanish on everything.
It may not have even been the immigrants requesting the language help.
That sort of attitude that
1. Spanish speaking people for some reason need to be accomidated ( given special treatment) in American/English speaking stores.
2. Business feel that if they don't include an option for spanish they run the risk of offending latino/hispanic customers. (Have you heard of anyone suing wal-mart/target/etc because their website/b&m/phones etc didnt have a spanish option?)[/QUOTE]
Why is that a bad attitude to have for a company? A corporation by law has to make the most money possible for their shareholders. If putting menu options and signs in Spanish as well as English helps them to sell more toasters, why wouldn't they?
Should Barnes and Noble stop selling The Koran because it might offend the majority religion in this country?
I don't look at it as excluding English speakers, just including other languages.
It may not have even been the immigrants requesting the language help.
That sort of attitude that
1. Spanish speaking people for some reason need to be accomidated ( given special treatment) in American/English speaking stores.
2. Business feel that if they don't include an option for spanish they run the risk of offending latino/hispanic customers. (Have you heard of anyone suing wal-mart/target/etc because their website/b&m/phones etc didnt have a spanish option?)[/QUOTE]
Why is that a bad attitude to have for a company? A corporation by law has to make the most money possible for their shareholders. If putting menu options and signs in Spanish as well as English helps them to sell more toasters, why wouldn't they?
Should Barnes and Noble stop selling The Koran because it might offend the majority religion in this country?
I don't look at it as excluding English speakers, just including other languages.
Loyaltist Shinra
Banned
In Amerigo you have a chioce. That is the big diffrence between America and other countries.
Examples...
1. I could either buy bottle water and say it is fresh or joruney to mountians and drink it from the river bed.
2. I can lie about my background and people will beleive me 100%.
3. I can have sex with whoever I want to even a Street Hydrant or my clone.
4. I can invest and save various ways to earn a living.
5. I can shoot anything that stumbles in my yard unwantedly.
6. I can speak any langauge and still make trillions of dollars then soembody who speaks proper english before coming here.
( THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OP )
This is one reason why people come to Amerigo all the time. The truth is we all hate each other and divide everything. So what try to deal with it since only in Amerigo Spanish is the other langauge that is spoken the most.
If you have a problem with Spanish speaking people then I suggest cross the border and go to Canada and deal with French speaking people.
Examples...
1. I could either buy bottle water and say it is fresh or joruney to mountians and drink it from the river bed.
2. I can lie about my background and people will beleive me 100%.
3. I can have sex with whoever I want to even a Street Hydrant or my clone.
4. I can invest and save various ways to earn a living.
5. I can shoot anything that stumbles in my yard unwantedly.
6. I can speak any langauge and still make trillions of dollars then soembody who speaks proper english before coming here.
( THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OP )
This is one reason why people come to Amerigo all the time. The truth is we all hate each other and divide everything. So what try to deal with it since only in Amerigo Spanish is the other langauge that is spoken the most.
If you have a problem with Spanish speaking people then I suggest cross the border and go to Canada and deal with French speaking people.
level1online
Banned
It's all "La Bamba's" fault!!!
Damn YOU!!! LOU DIAMOND PHILLIPS!!!
Damn YOU!!! LOU DIAMOND PHILLIPS!!!
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='Loyaltist Shinra']In Amerigo you have a chioce. That is the big diffrence between America and other countries.
Examples...
1. I could either buy bottle water and say it is fresh or joruney to mountians and drink it from the river bed.
2. I can lie about my background and people will beleive me 100%.
3. I can have sex with whoever I want to even a Street Hydrant or my clone.
4. I can invest and save various ways to earn a living.
5. I can shoot anything that stumbles in my yard unwantedly.
6. I can speak any langauge and still make trillions of dollars then soembody who speaks proper english before coming here.
( THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OP )
This is one reason why people come to Amerigo all the time. The truth is we all hate each other and divide everything. So what try to deal with it since only in Amerigo Spanish is the other langauge that is spoken the most.
If you have a problem with Spanish speaking people then I suggest cross the border and go to Canada and deal with French speaking people.[/QUOTE]
RegalSin? Is that you?
Examples...
1. I could either buy bottle water and say it is fresh or joruney to mountians and drink it from the river bed.
2. I can lie about my background and people will beleive me 100%.
3. I can have sex with whoever I want to even a Street Hydrant or my clone.
4. I can invest and save various ways to earn a living.
5. I can shoot anything that stumbles in my yard unwantedly.
6. I can speak any langauge and still make trillions of dollars then soembody who speaks proper english before coming here.
( THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OP )
This is one reason why people come to Amerigo all the time. The truth is we all hate each other and divide everything. So what try to deal with it since only in Amerigo Spanish is the other langauge that is spoken the most.
If you have a problem with Spanish speaking people then I suggest cross the border and go to Canada and deal with French speaking people.[/QUOTE]
RegalSin? Is that you?
bread's done