Why must everything be in Spanish?

[quote name='squid']where i grew up the signs have always been bilingual. the spanish sort of fades the further north you travel, but i guess i never thought it to be a big deal. english wasn't my primary language until i was 5 or 6. i'm sure that makes me a crappy american.[/QUOTE]

I'm in the North (Ohio) we have Spanish, and English on everything.

To those that have a problem with things having more then one language. Remember we're in a country that doesn't have an official language.
 
No. A large number of products have english, spanish and french instructions on them because of NAFTA. Because they're sold in America (english) Mexico (spanish) and canada (frenchy)

It's companies that only have english and spanish instructions on them because they assume immigrants won't bother (or can't) to learn english that bothers me.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']It's companies that only have english and spanish instructions on them because they assume immigrants won't bother (or can't) to learn english that bothers me.[/quote]

Why do you assume they're for people that don't want to learn English? Even an immigrant who has a decent grasp of English will understand Spanish much better and it will be easier for them to get help in that language.
 
But isn't it just doing the immigrants a disservice and serving to keep them marganalized from the rest of the country?

Seperate Point
I really think the immigrants are screwing themselves over by not becoming (or applying) for citizenship first before working. When they're not citizens they're not entitlted to the same wage standard, insurance, FMLA, etc that all us "lazy" americans have become acustomed too.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']But isn't it just doing the immigrants a disservice and serving to keep them marganalized from the rest of the country?[/quote]
Well as I was saying before it can act as a step to get them out of isolation (not that it always would). They don't have to know as much English to function so they can get out of Spanish-speaking places and know that they won't run into language barriers for some of the stuff they need while they learn the language better. And like always the first generation immigrants always have a hard time with the language so it helps them.

Obviously for anybody that doesn't want to learn English it might help them get some stuff they otherwise wouldn't, but it's not going to make them want to learn English less or anything ya know. If they want to be isolated they're going to be whether or not there's a help line or lean cuisine box in Spanish.

[quote name='eldergamer']Seperate Point
I really think the immigrants are screwing themselves over by not becoming (or applying) for citizenship first before working. When they're not citizens they're not entitlted to the same wage standard, insurance, FMLA, etc that all us "lazy" americans have become acustomed too.[/quote]
I agree, but if they thought that was an option they'd probably do it. I don't see why they wouldn't want to be citizens (and in the same vein learn English) since that would help them get better jobs, benefits, etc. Some of them probably don't have the option and some of them probably do, but for some reason or other think that they don't. Applying for legal immigration and all that shit is a lengthy process as well and many people probably wouldn't think it was an option just because they feel the need to get in immediately.
 
I believe thats a running theme through this thread. If they don't want to learn English and they don't want to integrate, they shouldn't come to the country to begin with.

[quote name='SpazX']Well as I was saying before it can act as a step to get them out of isolation (not that it always would). They don't have to know as much English to function so they can get out of Spanish-speaking places and know that they won't run into language barriers for some of the stuff they need while they learn the language better. And like always the first generation immigrants always have a hard time with the language so it helps them.

Obviously for anybody that doesn't want to learn English it might help them get some stuff they otherwise wouldn't, but it's not going to make them want to learn English less or anything ya know. If they want to be isolated they're going to be whether or not there's a help line or lean cuisine box in Spanish.


I agree, but if they thought that was an option they'd probably do it. I don't see why they wouldn't want to be citizens (and in the same vein learn English) since that would help them get better jobs, benefits, etc. Some of them probably don't have the option and some of them probably do, but for some reason or other think that they don't. Applying for legal immigration and all that shit is a lengthy process as well and many people probably wouldn't think it was an option just because they feel the need to get in immediately.[/quote]
 
[quote name='Kayden']I believe thats a running theme through this thread. If they don't want to learn English and they don't want to integrate, they shouldn't come to the country to begin with.[/quote]

I agree to an extent (though it does conflict with the "land of the free," and that's what keeps me from full agreement), but I don't think that has anything to do with what I posted.
 
I think the problem is that we're 'too free'. People are allowed to do things like not integrate into society. Once you become an American, you should conform to a degree. People should still be allowed to observe their old customs, but not when it conflicts with their new American culture. IE- Don't demand 10 prayer breaks, don't get pissy when you see Christmas decorations, don't demand everything available to you in your primary non-English language, etc. Immigration should demand integration.

[quote name='SpazX']I agree to an extent (though it does conflict with the "land of the free," and that's what keeps me from full agreement), but I don't think that has anything to do with what I posted.[/quote]
 
[quote name='SpazX']I agree to an extent (though it does conflict with the "land of the free," and that's what keeps me from full agreement), but I don't think that has anything to do with what I posted.[/quote]

But only Governer Arnold actually had the guts to even say something like this. (Which is quite ironic considering his mastery of the english language).

But at least Arnold telling people to turn off the Spanish TV and learn english is a step in the right direction. Most of us are too politically correct (afraid) to say the same thing.

Honestly, if we want to really help the immigrants when they come here, they have to learn English.
 
[quote name='Kayden']I think the problem is that we're 'too free'. People are allowed to do things like not integrate into society. Once you become an American, you should conform to a degree.[/QUOTE]

This is America. You can take your conformist bullshit and blow it out your ass. Anyone can conform or not conform to societal norms as they see fit, provided they don't hurt or endanger someone else or someone else's property.
 
[quote name='eldergamer'] Most of us are too politically correct (afraid) to say the same thing.
[/QUOTE]

Political correctness is a huge problem in this country. Most politicians are too worried about losing votes if they speak up against it.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']This is America. You can take your conformist bullshit and blow it out your ass. Anyone can conform or not conform to societal norms as they see fit, provided they don't hurt or endanger someone else or someone else's property.[/QUOTE]

:applause: Well said !!
 
[quote name='eldergamer']WTF. I know this is slightly petty but why must I be forced to read two languages or 'choose' english each time I go the counter anywhere? Sears, Wal-Mart, all of their signs now are both in english and spanish.

Who are we catering to? Do you think in Germany and Japan they tack on english to all their signs? No, they expect you to learn the language of the country you're in.
This is just pandering to the 'latino' market that does not want to assimlate and join the rest of the american culture. American business need to realize that their integrity as americans is more important than gathering greenbacks.[/QUOTE]
HAHAHAHA, all I can do is laugh at this. I was getting ready to type out a long response to this, but nah...other people in here share the same sentiments as I do.
 
Do people honestly expect a new immigrant to right away know fluent English? By the 2nd or 3rd generation of people, the immgrant's children are already deep into the American culture. They are going to know English, etc. The first generation are always going to have problems. At some point or another though they are going to melt into American society. While Spanish on everything is a little bit crazy, it should be a growing proccess for new people into the country, not as an excuse to never learn English.

The bottm line though if you don't know English in this country you aren't getting very far, unless you become a super athlete or musician or something.

And yes PC has crippled anyone speaking out on the issue, because if you even suggest people learn English, the only explanation some people have is that you're a racist.
 
The bottm line though if you don't know English in this country you aren't getting very far, unless you become a super athlete or musician or something.

And yes PC has crippled anyone speaking out on the issue, because if you even suggest people learn English, the only explanation some people have is that you're a racist.[/quote]

Not quite true at all. If you've ever been in a hospital setting (especialy a county/non-profit hospital) You easily encounter people who have been in the country for 10-20 years with limited or no english speaking skills what soever and need a family member to translate everything for them.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Not quite true at all. If you've ever been in a hospital setting (especialy a county/non-profit hospital) You easily encounter people who have been in the country for 10-20 years with limited or no english speaking skills what soever and need a family member to translate everything for them.[/quote]

And they're probably first generation immigrants. We've discussed this.

Also, do you ask every person speaking a foreign language how long they've been in the country or do you have some kind of sixth-sense ability for that sort of thing?
 
[quote name='SpazX']And they're probably first generation immigrants. We've discussed this.

Also, do you ask every person speaking a foreign language how long they've been in the country or do you have some kind of sixth-sense ability for that sort of thing?[/quote]

No, it's usually in their H&P (history & physical) if you read through their medical records. And I'm not the only bored/nosey person who does this either.
 
I don't understand how you can exist in a country for 10 years and have no fingerhold on the native tongue. It just boggle my mind. You think they stay indoors and play videogames all day instead of talking to other people?
 
out of curiosity, any of you spanish folks out there seen the Ingles Sin Barreras commercials on Univision?

they usually play them once an hour, 20 minutes after the hour.

in those commercials, for example, they specifically poke fun at hispanics who spend money on a new TV or lottery tickets, and say that the money would be better spent on learning english so... they can advance in the US.

the point is, there are those within the hispanic community who do want to learn english and realize the power that comes with speaking dual languages.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']I don't understand how you can exist in a country for 10 years and have no fingerhold on the native tongue. It just boggle my mind. You think they stay indoors and play videogames all day instead of talking to other people?[/quote]

They're usually older. The grandparents of 3rd generation immigrants.

btw The Prisoner was one of my favorite shows.
 
I work at a grocery store and live 10 miles form the mexican border and spanish speaking customers are always asking me where certain items are located because all of our signs are in english. It doesn't bother me, I mean it's my job and i'd be glad to help but sometimes the customers ask for things i've never heard of in spanish which makes me feel stupid. I sure would appreciate it if our store had english AND spanish signs, douche!

I don't understand how you can exist in a country for 10 years and have no fingerhold on the native tongue. It just boggle my mind. You think they stay indoors and play videogames all day instead of talking to other people?

Try learning a 2nd language as an adult. My mom has been here for more than 10 years and her english is terrible. It's not that easy for some people. And frankly, many aren't even willing to try. Like my mom for example.
 
The whole idea is that USA is a melting pot and that people come here have a right to learn whatever language that they want.

USA has two main languages. Espanish and English. If you don't know any of these then chances are your going to end up in a ghetto lifestyle living with only one type of people as if you never left the boat to begin with.

The problem with other countries is there culture. Since the days of WWI people have looked at America as heavan and then People from western countries cast imperialism on them.

Western people damage culture by touristing other countries and impregnating there women mostly threw prostitution. The sorta thing is the reason why there is so many light skined Indian people in India or people in Hong Kong who speak English sounds British.

Even after that with many immagrants in our communities they start to build Ghettos* structures and then the neighborhood loses money while the people in these Ghettos start to take over ( like the homeless vs the Home owner ) and pretty soon the Ghetto disapears and becomes the culture itself.

We need to prevent people from unwanted countries and groups to live next to us and monitor there numbers. They are like roaches but you can't gas em all the fact they are human and is no diffrent then you.

I thought about ways to lower the numbers legitimately but I am missing certain pieces and funding to start such a project.

*A ghetto is where there is only one type of people where there should not be and these people are living like if they never left the other countries ).
 
I loved the sign at the drive through in wendy's last night to pull forward to the next window in spanish, por favor.

I mean, WTF are they thinking. The whole menu is english. Do they think their spanish speaking customers are able to order from the menu but then don't know to pull forward until they see the sign in spanish?
 
[quote name='eldergamer']I loved the sign at the drive through in wendy's last night to pull forward to the next window in spanish, por favor.

I mean, WTF are they thinking. The whole menu is english. Do they think their spanish speaking customers are able to order from the menu but then don't know to pull forward until they see the sign in spanish?[/QUOTE]

Eh, that's bureaucracy, not pandering to an oblivious english-impaired demographic. Years ago, I saw a sign at a Burger King drive thru that said (in English), "Picture Menu Available Upon Request." :lol:
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Yes, but why spanish. What makes this immigrant community entitlted to such special treatment? In some places of the country asian and african immigrants outnumber hispanic and we make no effort to translate their languages.
Hell, even the fucking coast guard commercial is in spanish now.[/quote]

I'll bet you that the Bush Administration would give illegal immigrants amnesty if they joined the armed services.
 
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/bprw/zbs1057

Spread the word!

Seriously, do it.

Oh, and the fact that they're in both languages isn't so bad, it's the reason WHY they put them in both languages. It's because the US waits on hand and foot for the stupid illegals. It's BS. But if an American went to Mexico illegally, we'd be thrown out before we could say anything. I live in Waukegan, also known as 'Little Mexico' (Dead serious). There's literally a sign by the Mexican border that says 'Come to Waukegan'. (Ask an illegal, it's true.) And a couple of weeks ago, we actually had illegals protesting demanding rights. Can you believe that shit? But the funniest thing about it, is that we just passed a new law allowing us to deport people whenever we want. So everyone at the rally got deported. :rofl: (The illegals anyway.) And I don't care if you're white, black, brown, blue or pink, if you're here illegally, GET THE FCUK OUT.

It's so funny because I have so many damn racist things to say, but at the risk of being banned, I'm holding them back. :bomb:
 
[quote name='bmulligan']I don't understand how you can exist in a country for 10 years and have no fingerhold on the native tongue. It just boggle my mind.[/quote]

Yes. Also fact is mind of me boggle.
 
[quote name='Unickuta']I'll bet you that the Bush Administration would give illegal immigrants amnesty if they joined the armed services.[/quote]

These days many immigrants go straight to the military, it's no secret that this is a fast-track to citizenship.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yes. Also fact is mind of me boggle.[/quote]

In Waukegan, you don't need to know English. In fact, it's better to know Spanish, as more people speak it. Here, EVERY buisness has to have a translator. If you don't have one, no one comes there, that's that. Hell, sometimes I walk into a store, and the person working only speaks Spanish. Now, I can understand living here without speaking English, but how can you possibly work in a country, dealing with people, and not speak the mother tounge. Almost makes me want to learn Spanish. Almost.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']American business need to realize that their integrity as americans is more important than gathering greenbacks.[/quote]

I read that as: American business need to realize that their integrity as americans is more important than gathering wetbacks.

Had to do a double-take, but it made me laugh.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']....its sad because we forget all americans started out as immigrants...[/quote]

Yeah, but most immigrants try to learn English. My grandfather was FORCED to learn English. If he didn't, he didn't go to school. But now, we have bi-lingual classes, which is complete an utter bullshit.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']Yeah, but most immigrants try to learn English. My grandfather was FORCED to learn English. If he didn't, he didn't go to school. But now, we have bi-lingual classes, which is complete an utter bullshit.[/QUOTE]
not in new york...
watch gangs of new york.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']And a couple of weeks ago, we actually had illegals protesting demanding rights. Can you believe that shit?[/QUOTE]

NO WAI!!!!! RIGHTS!!!!

What savages.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']not in new york...
watch gangs of new york.[/quote]

I love how you take your history lessons from movies.

In defense of your opinion though, alot of people seem to be forgetting that their great-grandparents probably didn't speak English. They also stayed in small tight knit German, Irish, and Italian neighborhoods. My great-grandmother never learned English but her son (my grandfather) went on to serve America proudly in World War II. I'm sure glad she was allowed to live as she saw fit and still passed on the principles and values that makes this country great.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']....its sad because we forget all americans started out as immigrants...[/QUOTE]

It's even sadder when someone uses this fact as a way to excuse illegals breaking the law and some not jumping in the melting pot like their predecessors. This is coming from someone who supports increased legal immigration.

[quote name='mykevermin']NO WAI!!!!! RIGHTS!!!!

What savages.[/QUOTE]

Next thing you know they'll be demanding not to be tortured or detained indefinitely without charge...
 
I am originally from South Florida and have lived and worked for many years in Miami, Florida, where the street signs are in english and in spanish and much of the population are spanish speaking. There is a lot of spanish radio and spanish signage on commercial establishments. One could definitely get by without speaking a lick of english if they stayed in these areas.

This is an interesting topic that I discussed/read/wrote about extensively in a law school class called "US Races and the Justice System." In that class we talked about so-called "English Only" laws which required that all government documents/street signs/etc. be printed in English Only. The pro is that it saves time/money/resources, and compels people to learn to read and write and speak english. The con is that it disenfranchises (look it up if you dont know what it means) spanish speakers or those who are not proficient in English and can be viewed as discriminatory. It should be noted that many of these people who cannot read/write english ARE US CITIZENS, not immigrants or illegal aliens.

Additionally, in this class we also discussed a theory authored by Neil Gotunda (I think that was his name) called reverse assimilation. Basically the theory of reverse assimilation goes as follows: (1) The first level of immigrants who come fresh off the boat work the hardest, both economically and work the hardest in attempting to assimilate and prove to society that they are a benefit. (2) Their offspring, who are born in America and are thus US Citizens, see their parent's efforts to assimilate as "selling out" thier heritage, see the discrimination and injustice wrought upon minorities in the US, and go backwards towards poverty/drugs/despondency etc...

BTW, unless you're a Native American Indian, you're an immigrant too.

Also spanish speaker does not equal mexican, for all the ignorant people using the word "Mexican" instead of "spanish speaker."

I forget who but somebody posted "even though to be a citizen you are supposed to be fluent in English." This is simply untrue and the U.S. Immigration code states that simply being born in America makes you a citizen. This is the law that our legislature made whom YOU elected.

Also elder, you really need to get past this. I don't see what is so difficult to understand. Many citizens speak spanish and companies would like to make it easier for them too. It isn't any skin off of your back. I dont get what your so upset about? Is it because this is spoiling the sanctity of your "pure" nation? Is it becasue you can only read/see so many things in a day and seeing the spanish is filling up your quota?

Don't get me wrong, I can completely empathize with people in the exceptional areas where they do have a hard time because they cannot speak English. Miami is a perfect example. It sucks and it does give somebody the feelings "Why the (how do you get that shaqfu symbol in your posts?) am I having a hard time here because everybody here is speaking spanish and this is America Damn It!?" That does suck and it is unfortunate but that is not the issue here. You're not complainging about the uniquely cuban ethnic areas of S. Miami, you're complaint is with "Everything in Spanish."

Additionally you asserted that signs in Spanish are everywhere which requires no response because it is prima facie absurd. I've personally traveled America extensively, both coasts and much of the middle. Spanish speakers/signage is the exception, not the norm. As to the automated phone menus, so long as you Press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish I dont have a problem with it. (just kidding, kind of).
 
[quote name='pittpizza']It should be noted that many of these people who cannot read/write english ARE US CITIZENS, not immigrants or illegal aliens.[/QUOTE]

This is not true. If it is true, our immigration authorities have let us down in yet another area. To wit:

Language

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language.

http://www.us-immigration-attorney.com/citizenship.htm
 
[quote name='depascal22']I love how you take your history lessons from movies.

In defense of your opinion though, alot of people seem to be forgetting that their great-grandparents probably didn't speak English. They also stayed in small tight knit German, Irish, and Italian neighborhoods. My great-grandmother never learned English but her son (my grandfather) went on to serve America proudly in World War II. I'm sure glad she was allowed to live as she saw fit and still passed on the principles and values that makes this country great.[/QUOTE]


I took 4 years of american history in high school. I was just using a movie to illustrate a point.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']It's even sadder when someone uses this fact as a way to excuse illegals breaking the law and some not jumping in the melting pot like their predecessors. This is coming from someone who supports increased legal immigration.
[/QUOTE]

You're acting like US law is somewhat logical. You forget that up until a little while ago it was illegal for homosexuals to have sex. Hell its still illegal to use a harmless little herb called Cannabis.

Our immigrant predecessors did something I consider a lot more illegal; they murdered millions upon millions of natives who were here before us.

In my opinion we have no right to complain about mexicans breaking a few rules when you consider what we've done to the real owners of this land.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Our immigrant predecessors did something I consider a lot more illegal; they murdered millions upon millions of natives who were here before us.

In my opinion we have no right to complain about mexicans breaking a few rules when you consider what we've done to the real owners of this land.[/quote]

Show me one person whose ancestors don't have blood on their hands, and I'll show you a damn lier.

Pardon me for thinking that progeny shouldn't have to pay for the sins of their fathers.
 
[quote name='camoor']Show me one person whose ancestors don't have blood on their hands, and I'll show you a damn lier.

Pardon me for thinking that progeny shouldn't have to pay for the sins of their fathers.[/QUOTE]

You should at least stop acting like your all fucking saints and the unwashed mexican hordes are thieving pedophiles....the only race that is as bad as that are the peruvians..
 
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