Why must everything be in Spanish?

I went to an ATM in Manhattan today and there were more language options than I care to mention. Why is it so hard to believe that banks will do anything to make more money?

Just to appeal to the selfish side in all of you immigrant haters. We kind of need a huge influx of young blue collar workers. In case you haven't noticed, a humongous amount of Baby Boomers will soon hit retirement age. If we all still want to have some benefits around when Gen X hits retirement age we need alot more workers now to contribute to the system. There are two solutions for this problem.

1. Start banging like jackrabbits thus creating a larger natural born population.
2. Allow more immigrants (legal and illegal) to enter the country.

Now, I personally prefer number 1 but 'Merica loves it's birth control. So what else do we do?
 
[quote name='depascal22']I went to an ATM in Manhattan today and there were more language options than I care to mention. Why is it so hard to believe that banks will do anything to make more money?

Just to appeal to the selfish side in all of you immigrant haters. We kind of need a huge influx of young blue collar workers. In case you haven't noticed, a humongous amount of Baby Boomers will soon hit retirement age. If we all still want to have some benefits around when Gen X hits retirement age we need alot more workers now to contribute to the system. There are two solutions for this problem.

1. Start banging like jackrabbits thus creating a larger natural born population.
2. Allow more immigrants (legal and illegal) to enter the country.

Now, I personally prefer number 1 but 'Merica loves it's birth control. So what else do we do?[/quote]

US does not "need" any additional unskilled labor. If you think that corpos are going to funnel a significant part of profits they make off the backs of hard working blue-collar immigrants into benefits for low-rung retirees, then you are either incredibly naive or insane. The blue-collar jobs that can be outsourced to other countries have already left or soon will, leaving a smaller footprint of construction/restuarant/janitorial/trucking jobs; the types of jobs that unskilled American workers are fiercely competing with illegal immigrants to win.

America's financial health lies in attracting professionals and skilled laborers to it's shores. Scientists, doctors, and computer professionals (lawyers are a maybe ;) ). Financially speaking, the guy who cures your cough or helps write the next killer app is much more valuable then a construction gang.
 
I'm going to have to bust out a White Stripes quote I heard on the radio yesterday:

"Why don't you kick yourself out? You're an immigrant too."
 
[quote name='depascal22']I went to an ATM in Manhattan today and there were more language options than I care to mention.[/QUOTE]
I used an ATM in Turkey last month. I sure did appreciate the English option.
 
[quote name='camoor']US does not "need" any additional unskilled labor. If you think that corpos are going to funnel a significant part of profits they make off the backs of hard working blue-collar immigrants into benefits for low-rung retirees, then you are either incredibly naive or insane. The blue-collar jobs that can be outsourced to other countries have already left or soon will, leaving a smaller footprint of construction/restuarant/janitorial/trucking jobs; the types of jobs that unskilled American workers are fiercely competing with illegal immigrants to win.

America's financial health lies in attracting professionals and skilled laborers to it's shores. Scientists, doctors, and computer professionals (lawyers are a maybe ;) ). Financially speaking, the guy who cures your cough or helps write the next killer app is much more valuable then a construction gang.[/quote]

I never said I expected corporations to funnel any money for anyone but themselves. I was just saying that legal immigrants pay their taxes and that goes towards social security. That's what we need. I agree more than ever that we need more skilled workers but if we can't encourage them to immigrate here then we can encourage low skill workers to come here, pay taxes, and have babies that could grow up to be skilled workers.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']You're acting like US law is somewhat logical. You forget that up until a little while ago it was illegal for homosexuals to have sex. Hell its still illegal to use a harmless little herb called Cannabis.

Our immigrant predecessors did something I consider a lot more illegal; they murdered millions upon millions of natives who were here before us.

In my opinion we have no right to complain about mexicans breaking a few rules when you consider what we've done to the real owners of this land.[/QUOTE]

In my opinion you're full of shit. I'm not going to get into the homosexual thing, marijuana or historical arguments as they are irrelevant to this debate and would veer us well off topic, however. If you want to talk about any of those in a separate topic I'm game though.

1. Regardless of the factual nature (or lack thereof) of some of what you post above, something being wrong is not excused by something else being wrong. "You say you robbed a bank?!" "Settle down, you shoplifted something yesterday yourself."

2. The law is the law. Illegals broke the law by illegally coming across the border, period. To say that complaints about breaking the law are not valid is insipid.

[quote name='electronicmaji']Your assuming we are referring to naturalization. Yet the fact is many 2nd and 3rd generation americans can not speak english either. Especially among the Asian, Italian, Greek, and Polish communities.[/QUOTE]

And like I said, if that is true our government has let us down once again, since to be a naturalized citizen (i.e. American) you must be able to speak English. Or are you saying non-citizens are Americans?

[quote name='electronicmaji']You should at least stop acting like your all fucking saints and the unwashed mexican hordes are thieving pedophiles....the only race that is as bad as that are the peruvians..[/QUOTE]

I don't think any of us (most of all not myself) called or implied that Mexicans are "unwashed pedophiles," so time to stop with the strawmen.

And why are you so bigoted against Peruvians?

[quote name='pittpizza']I'm going to have to bust out a White Stripes quote I heard on the radio yesterday:

"Why don't you kick yourself out? You're an immigrant too."[/QUOTE]

What a terribly stupid quote. Most of us aren't immigrants. And I would hope that any of us who are immigrants are legal immigrants, with whom I (and I hope everyone else) have no problem whatsoever with as they played by the rules and broke no laws.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']In my opinion you're full of shit. I'm not going to get into the homosexual thing, marijuana or historical arguments as they are irrelevant to this debate and would veer us well off topic, however. If you want to talk about any of those in a separate topic I'm game though.

1. Regardless of the factual nature (or lack thereof) of some of what you post above, something being wrong is not excused by something else being wrong. "You say you robbed a bank?!" "Settle down, you shoplifted something yesterday yourself."

2. The law is the law. Illegals broke the law by illegally coming across the border, period. To say that complaints about breaking the law are not valid is insipid.



And like I said, if that is true our government has let us down once again, since to be a naturalized citizen (i.e. American) you must be able to speak English. Or are you saying non-citizens are Americans?



I don't think any of us (most of all not myself) called or implied that Mexicans are "unwashed pedophiles," so time to stop with the strawmen.

And why are you so bigoted against Peruvians?



What a terribly stupid quote. Most of us aren't immigrants. And I would hope that any of us who are immigrants are legal immigrants, with whom I (and I hope everyone else) have no problem whatsoever with as they played by the rules and broke no laws.[/QUOTE]

Unless you're originally a native american you can not claim you're not an immigrant. Every single american came here and stole land from the native people. I'm pretty sure that was against Native American law.

As for your response on laws and so forth; what is the point of following a law when it doesn't make sense? Where is the law drawn between freedom intended by our forefathers and the constitution and the law? If the goverment puts up a law thats clearly in violation of the constitution does that make that law legal and what we do illegal? I doubt it.

The founding fathers intended for America to be a great nation. We ourselves created this image. We said, "Give us your dirty, hungry, unwashed masses." We ourselves all came here rather 10 or 100s of years ago as immigrants. I see very little difference if you ancestors came here from Poland 150 years ago or came here from Mexico 20 years ago.

You're acting like we actually justifiably own this land. All the earth here is covered in blood from the millions of indians we killed. I will never turn away any neighbor who wants to live on this land. Considering most mexicans are of indian descent (compared to the very small percent of americans of native descent) I feel not only do they deserve to be treated like all the original imigrants but have a right to be here.

Frankly I don't care if you're Polish, Cuban, Peruvian, Mexican. I don't care if your 1 year old or 60 year old. I dont care if you came here 300 years ago or 1 month ago. We are a melting pot. Our very image is that of a nation that accepted all. We created the American Dream and compared to third world countries like Mexico America is a dream.

I refuse to kick anyone out of America who is following their dream.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']I refuse to kick anyone out of America who is following their dream.[/quote]

I like the cut of your jibe.

We better take advantage of the people that want to work in this country while this is still a desirable country to work in.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I never said I expected corporations to funnel any money for anyone but themselves. I was just saying that legal immigrants pay their taxes and that goes towards social security. That's what we need. I agree more than ever that we need more skilled workers but if we can't encourage them to immigrate here then we can encourage low skill workers to come here, pay taxes, and have babies that could grow up to be skilled workers.[/quote]
Well you're living in a fantasy world if you think social security is going to be around for long. Besides the majority of tax revenue in the US comes from small businesses, then large corporations (less then it should, thanks tax loopholes), and then a small percentage from individual citizens. Unskilled immigrants are more likely to be on or below the poverty line, meaning they get special tax breaks and acutally cost the government (through medicare, welfare, housing programs, etc) more then the money they put in the system.

And I can't understand why you think there's any likelihood that unskilled workers will have kids who grow up to win white-collar professions. All of the statistical evidence says otherwise.
 
[quote name='camoor']Well you're living in a fantasy world if you think social security is going to be around for long. Besides the majority of tax revenue in the US comes from small businesses, then large corporations (less then it should, thanks tax loopholes), and then a small percentage from individual citizens. Unskilled immigrants are more likely to be on or below the poverty line, meaning they get special tax breaks and acutally cost the government (through medicare, welfare, housing programs, etc) more then the money they put in the system.

And I can't understand why you think there's any likelihood that unskilled workers will have kids who grow up to win white-collar professions. All of the statistical evidence says otherwise.[/quote]

I'm not saying that it's definately going to save Social Security. Stop acting like an ass and putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that Social Security can be helped by getting more taxpayers into the system.

I'm just looking at the history of our country when I say that unskilled labor can have children that grow up to become skilled workers. Are all Italians and Irishmen still dockworkers and fisherman? No, they saved up their money and put their kids through school. Eventually, after a couple generations, their great grand kids achieved more success. Most of the doctors I worked with are children of immigrants. Some were even Holocaust survivors. They came to this country and worked hard. They took two or three jobs so that their kids would do well. It's happened every generation. Why are you being so pessimistic about their chances? Stop being a hater for 2 minutes and give these people a chance.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Unless you're originally a native american you can not claim you're not an immigrant. Every single american came here and stole land from the native people. I'm pretty sure that was against Native American law.[/quote]

Utter bullshit. I was born here and therefore am not an immigrant. Do you even know what "immigrant" means? For heaven's sake, using your "logic" all American Indians are immigrants from Africa.

And no, I did not steal any land from anyone. It so happens that neither did any of my ancestors, but even if they did *I* did not. You can't hold someone accountable for their ancestors' actions, that is just stupid.

[quote name='electronicmaji']As for your response on laws and so forth; what is the point of following a law when it doesn't make sense? Where is the law drawn between freedom intended by our forefathers and the constitution and the law? If the goverment puts up a law thats clearly in violation of the constitution does that make that law legal and what we do illegal? I doubt it.[/quote]

Are you arguing that laws preventing open borders and unregulated immigration are unconstitutional? That's what it looks like to me. I think you're in a small, radical minority on that point.

And what do you mean there is no point following a law if it doesn't make sense? We are a country where laws are made by those we elect. If you don't like the laws, elect someone to change them. There is no "I don't think this law is right and therefore I have a right to disobey it" precedent in our country. See how far that will get you in court.

[quote name='electronicmaji']The founding fathers intended for America to be a great nation. We ourselves created this image. We said, "Give us your dirty, hungry, unwashed masses." We ourselves all came here rather 10 or 100s of years ago as immigrants. I see very little difference if you ancestors came here from Poland 150 years ago or came here from Mexico 20 years ago.[/quote]

Again, you are confusing people with their ancestors. I doubt anyone on this board came here 100s of years ago as immigrants.

And you are also confusing illegal immigration with immigration. I have never argued against all legal immigration; in fact, I'd like to see it increased. What I do not like is illegal, unregulated immigration that contributes to drugs, violent crime, gangs, possible terrorist infiltration and other problems. There is a big difference between those who follow the rules and come here legally and those who refuse to do so, break the law and come here illegally. It doesn't matter if they are from Poland, Mexico or Timbuktu.

[quote name='electronicmaji']You're acting like we actually justifiably own this land. All the earth here is covered in blood from the millions of indians we killed. I will never turn away any neighbor who wants to live on this land. Considering most mexicans are of indian descent (compared to the very small percent of americans of native descent) I feel not only do they deserve to be treated like all the original imigrants but have a right to be here.[/quote]

If you really feel this way just about every culture on Earth is covered with blood. Do you think, for example, the American Indians who were living in North America when European colonists arrived were in perfect harmony with one another and never had wars, took others' land, killed other tribes? You are either ignorant about the history of the people you supposedly care so much about or just plain dumb.

But your last sentence betrays you: you'd like to turn the clock back 500 years and punish current-day Americans for what you see as the sins of their forefathers. You are indeed on the super-lunatic fringe.

[quote name='electronicmaji']Frankly I don't care if you're Polish, Cuban, Peruvian, Mexican.[/quote]

That's not what I saw you write above. You specifically insulted Peruvians. I just wondered why you hate them so much? Especially considering your bullshit about "never turning away a neighbor" above. Enough with the hypocrisy and bigotry already!

[quote name='electronicmaji']I don't care if your 1 year old or 60 year old. I dont care if you came here 300 years ago or 1 month ago. We are a melting pot. Our very image is that of a nation that accepted all. We created the American Dream and compared to third world countries like Mexico America is a dream.

I refuse to kick anyone out of America who is following their dream.[/QUOTE]

Again, you are full of shit. You can't accept that people distinguish between legal and illegal immigration, so you draw upon ideas Americans cherish (the melting pot, the American dream) as justification for illegal immigration when they are really ideas pertaining to legal immigration -- law-abiding people who follow the rules, work hard and get ahead in life.
 
I love how these middle-class college kids (or high school) breathe such nobility into the 'immigrant'. That they're such, proud hard working people.

You middle class kids who're living in your parents basement probably have no idea what it is like to support your family on $6.00 an hour (or less).

Frankly, we are doing the illegals a dis-service by continuing to employ them. They are just being exploited by their (illegal hiring) employer, as they are not required to have a minimum wage, insurance, taxes, etc for anyone w/o documents.

All the signs in Spanish serve the same purpose to a lesser extend. It also implies that of all of our immigrants, that Spanish speakers are unable or unwilling to learn english themselves.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Frankly, we are doing the illegals a dis-service by continuing to employ them. They are just being exploited by their (illegal hiring) employer, as they are not required to have a minimum wage, insurance, taxes, etc for anyone w/o documents.[/quote]

Don't know about that. As bad as it is for illegals, they wouldn't be showing up if it wasn't worse in their home country.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']
Frankly, we are doing the illegals a dis-service by continuing to employ them. They are just being exploited by their (illegal hiring) employer, as they are not required to have a minimum wage, insurance, taxes, etc for anyone w/o documents.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to be argumentative, but IMHO I completely disagree. They would not be dieing in droves of dehydration in the desert and setting out to cross the open ocean in chugs (a term used for the rafts cubans use) if coming to America was viewed by them as a disservice. 6 dollars an hour can go along way for these people, especially when compared to 0 dollars an hour.

Im not saying its right or fair, im simply pointing out that they reap great benefit by working those minimum wage jobs as compared to their alternatives.

An interesting side note, as to cubans the US immigration law uses a "wet foot/dry foot" law. If they make it to dry land, they can stay becasue in the eyes of the law they are political refugees whereas a hatian on the other hand cannot because they are economic refugees. BEcause of this law when coast guard cutters are sent to intercept the chugs and deport the cubans back to cuba, many of them jump out of the raft and take their chances with trying to swim to shore, it is quite an awful scene that demonstrates that entering America, at least in their eyes, is not a disservice at all.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']I refuse to kick anyone out of America who is following their dream.[/quote]

Right- even when they're not paying taxes, yet taking advantage of our public places.

[quote name='electronicmaji']Unless you're originally a native american you can not claim you're not an immigrant. Every single american came here and stole land from the native people. I'm pretty sure that was against Native American law.[/quote]

There's a reason why Native Americans look Asian. Because they emigrated from Asia across the then-frozen Bering Strait. They're as much "immigrants," as you say, as we are.

A bigot if I ever saw one.
 
Quotes taken from December 21, 2012 as 50cent & Jay-Z are the first hip-hop artists inducted into the Council on Foreign Relations.

"MANIFEST DESTINY 2.0 MUTHA F*CKAS!!!!!!! GIMME DAT OOOOIL!!!"
"What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine... grand chessboard beeee-yotch!!!"
"Get wit da program, it's called global hegemony, holla at ya boy rockafella!"

anyways, enough joking. now its time to vent, lets take a look at the bigger picture, shall we?

You guys need to realize that as the immigration problem is allowed to get worse, there will be programs and restrictions rolled out from both sides of the political spectrum to control the illegals. Sounds good right??? wrong... The thing is, these new programs and restrictions will effect everybody, not just the illegals, and will restrict everybody, that means you too. :no: Biometrics and the National ID Card will eventually become the new state ID by May 2008(though some states are rejecting it), and a new form of tyranny will engulf this country. (*in russian accent*) PAPERS PLEASE?

Funny thing is, it'll be sold to you through media propaganda, and you will embrace your slavery... like the Patriot Act, Iraqi War, & the war on "Terror". Can you imagine having to thumbscan just to clock into work or perhaps buy a gallon of milk at the convenience store?

and for those who resist... it'll be sold to you like this...
"no thumb scanny-scanny... no pay checky-checky"
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Utter bullshit. I was born here and therefore am not an immigrant. Do you even know what "immigrant" means? For heaven's sake, using your "logic" all American Indians are immigrants from Africa.

And no, I did not steal any land from anyone. It so happens that neither did any of my ancestors, but even if they did *I* did not. You can't hold someone accountable for their ancestors' actions, that is just stupid.



Are you arguing that laws preventing open borders and unregulated immigration are unconstitutional? That's what it looks like to me. I think you're in a small, radical minority on that point.

And what do you mean there is no point following a law if it doesn't make sense? We are a country where laws are made by those we elect. If you don't like the laws, elect someone to change them. There is no "I don't think this law is right and therefore I have a right to disobey it" precedent in our country. See how far that will get you in court.



Again, you are confusing people with their ancestors. I doubt anyone on this board came here 100s of years ago as immigrants.

And you are also confusing illegal immigration with immigration. I have never argued against all legal immigration; in fact, I'd like to see it increased. What I do not like is illegal, unregulated immigration that contributes to drugs, violent crime, gangs, possible terrorist infiltration and other problems. There is a big difference between those who follow the rules and come here legally and those who refuse to do so, break the law and come here illegally. It doesn't matter if they are from Poland, Mexico or Timbuktu.



If you really feel this way just about every culture on Earth is covered with blood. Do you think, for example, the American Indians who were living in North America when European colonists arrived were in perfect harmony with one another and never had wars, took others' land, killed other tribes? You are either ignorant about the history of the people you supposedly care so much about or just plain dumb.

But your last sentence betrays you: you'd like to turn the clock back 500 years and punish current-day Americans for what you see as the sins of their forefathers. You are indeed on the super-lunatic fringe.



That's not what I saw you write above. You specifically insulted Peruvians. I just wondered why you hate them so much? Especially considering your bullshit about "never turning away a neighbor" above. Enough with the hypocrisy and bigotry already!



Again, you are full of shit. You can't accept that people distinguish between legal and illegal immigration, so you draw upon ideas Americans cherish (the melting pot, the American dream) as justification for illegal immigration when they are really ideas pertaining to legal immigration -- law-abiding people who follow the rules, work hard and get ahead in life.[/QUOTE]


Yes in fact I can blame people for what their ancestors did. Especially if they took no attempt to correct it. Theres redistribution for a reason. Point is every american started out the way these illegal immigrants did in fact our borders were open. Just because they are closed now does not make what these hispanics are doing any different from what the polish, italian, greek, german, and english did before them.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Yes in fact I can blame people for what their ancestors did. Especially if they took no attempt to correct it. Theres redistribution for a reason. Point is every american started out the way these illegal immigrants did in fact our borders were open. Just because they are closed now does not make what these hispanics are doing any different from what the polish, italian, greek, german, and english did before them.[/QUOTE]

Um yeah, it makes it illegal.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Yes in fact I can blame people for what their ancestors did.[/QUOTE]

EHH!!!! Wrong answer!!
 
The difference between these days and our ancestors days is that back then, the country was being built up and we needed to build up towns, cities, etc. Nowadays, everything is packed to hell and crowded. It's only going to get worse.
 
[quote name='Blackout542']The difference between these days and our ancestors days is that back then, the country was being built up and we needed to build up towns, cities, etc. Nowadays, everything is packed to hell and crowded. It's only going to get worse.[/QUOTE]

Not where I live. In fact it takes too long to get anywhere.

And again you speak of legality as if it matters. If the sons and daughters of millions of people who arrived here via one manor make the manor they very well came here illegal not only is hypocritical its stupid and in my opinion makes it more legal than illegal.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Not where I live. In fact it takes too long to get anywhere.

And again you speak of legality as if it matters. If the sons and daughters of millions of people who arrived here via one manor make the manor they very well came here illegal not only is hypocritical its stupid and in my opinion makes it more legal than illegal.[/quote]

They arrived here on one manor?

OomsFloatingHouse.jpg
 
If you're trying to compare today's illegal immigrants to the storied immigrants of the past, you're way off.

Today's immigrants don't stay here. Alot of the migrant workers only come up here for seasonal work and then travel right back to mexico/central america/wherever.

They're not interested in the american dream, they're just here to exploit us.

The past immigrants saw america as a land of oppurtunity and put down roots here.
 
They're here to exploit us??? Really? Really? By picking all of strawberries for 4 bucks an hour and a hot lunch? That exploits us? By cleaning up all our nasty cum stained hotel sheets for $5.50? That exploits us?

You called us all middle class kids that honor the immigrant. I don't understand where you get that from. I'm middle class but I put myself there. I work full time and support a family. I understand that some people would stick themselves in the trunk of a car for 3 days just to get a chance to work and live here. You can call that supportive or whatever. You can say I'm naive and living in a fantasy world but I like to think that this country is still great enough that people are DYING to get here. With your attitudes, this country will go back to being a second class country that no one cares about. What happened to "Give your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."?
 
The Illegal Mexican is not exploiting the Legal American Citizen.

The Law Enforcement Officer is exploiting the Legal American Citizen.
(aka the Prison-Industrial Complex)

The Law Enforcement Officer is not exploting the Illegal Mexican.
(visit a local traffic court, see it with your own eyes)
 
[quote name='depascal22']They're here to exploit us??? Really? Really? By picking all of strawberries for 4 bucks an hour and a hot lunch? That exploits us? By cleaning up all our nasty cum stained hotel sheets for $5.50? That exploits us?

You called us all middle class kids that honor the immigrant. I don't understand where you get that from. I'm middle class but I put myself there. I work full time and support a family. I understand that some people would stick themselves in the trunk of a car for 3 days just to get a chance to work and live here. You can call that supportive or whatever. You can say I'm naive and living in a fantasy world but I like to think that this country is still great enough that people are DYING to get here. With your attitudes, this country will go back to being a second class country that no one cares about. What happened to "Give your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."?[/quote]

Listen buddy, as I tried to explain before, from an economic standpoint it's never a good deal to import poverty from other countries.

Practically speaking, stemming the tide of illegal immigration and beefing up the more selective, skill-seeking immigration process would be a net gain for the country.

The real solution needs to be implemented by South American countries, they need to clean up the corruption and make their homelands attractive places to live and work. Stopping the insane war on drugs would also be a step in the right direction.

In the meantime, morally speaking I don't know what the right thing to do is. Personally I tend to think that if you want to come to America that badly, there should be a streamlined, efficient program whereby you can get papers that enable you to legally work and pay your fair share of taxes. Unfortunately however, there's probably a limit to how generous the US can be in opening her borders.
 
[quote name='camoor']Listen buddy, as I tried to explain before, from an economic standpoint it's never a good deal to import poverty from other countries.

Practically speaking, stemming the tide of illegal immigration and beefing up the more selective, skill-seeking immigration process would be a net gain for the country.

The real solution needs to be implemented by South American countries, they need to clean up the corruption and make their homelands attractive places to live and work. Stopping the insane war on drugs would also be a step in the right direction.

In the meantime, morally speaking I don't know what the right thing to do is. Personally I tend to think that if you want to come to America that badly, there should be a streamlined, efficient program whereby you can get papers that enable you to legally work and pay your fair share of taxes. Unfortunately however, there's probably a limit to how generous the US can be in opening her borders.[/QUOTE]

Yet Importing poverty from other countries made America what it is today. Whether you like it or not all our ancestors were poor bastards only the worse off of the world came too america and the only thign it did was boost the economy.

Great Logic there Bub.
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Yet Importing poverty from other countries made America what it is today. Whether you like it or not all our ancestors were poor bastards only the worse off of the world came too america and the only thign it did was boost the economy.

Great Logic there Bub.[/quote]

You're right!

America was made from poor immigrants.

Colonial America just kinda happened - it was nothing but sweat, hard work, and a bunch of homeless vagrants whose boats materialized out of thin air. Being that colonies were bankrolled as gold and tobacco farming sites by English institutions such as the London Virginia Company, they were naturally much worse off financially then the native Americans (remarkable because the native Americans didn't even have a concept of private property)

The trend continues - it was the poor immigrants who lead the charge to found America and make it what it is today, not rich landed third and fourth generation Americans such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and George Mason.

Educated, wildy successful entrepeneurs such as Benjamin Franklin could never hope to have the same influence as a German immigrant ditch digger of the same time.

I could go on but why bother - it's so freaking obvious that throught America's history unskilled immigrants have benefitted America financially much moreso then the citizens born in America and skilled/white-collar immigrants.
 
We're not saying that skilled people didn't make this country great. We're just saying that those people aren't coming here in droves so what do we do? People are using our higher educational system and high tailing it back home instead of sticking it out in a country that seems to be more and more anti-immigrant.

If we change the standard to only allow highly skilled workers, the poor will just be forced to turn to smugglers. The Chinese smugglers are bad enough. I hate that people resort to prostituting themselves for a decade just for a chance at the American Dream. It's despicable that more people will profit from illegal human trafficking. I'm not saying let everyone in but there shouldn't be any sort of quota system. Let people in that want to be here.

On the other hand, I agree with you about the War on Drugs. It's a humongous waste of money that could be better used to police the border.
 
:whistle2:k [quote name='camoor']You're right!

America was made from poor immigrants.

Colonial America just kinda happened - it was nothing but sweat, hard work, and a bunch of homeless vagrants whose boats materialized out of thin air. Being that colonies were bankrolled as gold and tobacco farming sites by English institutions such as the London Virginia Company, they were naturally much worse off financially then the native Americans (remarkable because the native Americans didn't even have a concept of private property)

The trend continues - it was the poor immigrants who lead the charge to found America and make it what it is today, not rich landed third and fourth generation Americans such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and George Mason.

Educated, wildy successful entrepeneurs such as Benjamin Franklin could never hope to have the same influence as a German immigrant ditch digger of the same time.

I could go on but why bother - it's so freaking obvious that throught America's history unskilled immigrants have benefitted America financially much moreso then the citizens born in America and skilled/white-collar immigrants.[/quote]

Do I sense some sarcasm here?
 
[quote name='electronicmaji']Yes in fact I can blame people for what their ancestors did.[/quote]

Well, obviously you can blame them; we do not control your thoughts or speech. However, like I stated before, it is still just stupid to do so. You are blaming people for something beyond their control.

[quote name='electronicmaji']Especially if they took no attempt to correct it. Theres redistribution for a reason. Point is every american started out the way these illegal immigrants did in fact our borders were open. Just because they are closed now does not make what these hispanics are doing any different from what the polish, italian, greek, german, and english did before them.[/QUOTE]

And when were our borders last "open"? Why do you think the world of 1776 is the same as the world of 2007? Are you that naive?

And WTF are you talking about "took no attempt to correct it"? Are you suggesting what you think I'm suggesting, that all European/African/Asian/etc. immigrants and all their ancestors "go back from whence they came"? If you are you're in the lunatic-lunatic fringe and not just the lunatic fringe that I took you for.
 
[quote name='depascal22']With your attitudes, this country will go back to being a second class country that no one cares about. What happened to "Give your tired, your poor, your huddled masses."?[/QUOTE]

What happened is our government stopped enforcing the law, leaving us to cope with a lot of criminal activity around the border area. At the same time, Congress reduced legal immigration inflow, thus making more people turn to the illegal human traffickers.

We need to reverse this insane trend by stopping illegal inflows and making it easier for the honest people willing to follow the rules. They're lined up around the globe to come here legally yet we allow millions to sneak across in San Diego or huddled in a cargo hold. Most Americans don't think it's quite fair that someone in Mexico City who waits for 20 years to come here legally and honestly is less well-off in their endeavor than someone who hops the border illegally, comes here and then mooches off of government services while not paying taxes.
 
You're missing the whole point.

1. The illegal immigrants are not paying taxes (like you and I do.) Yet they're using city/state/federal services. Hey, I'd love to get out of paying taxes myself.
2. Do we assume that the Spanish speaking immigrants are unable or unwilling to learn English so we must put signs everywhere in both languages? (Why don't we do this for Asian or African immigrants?)
3. If you're a legal worker you have a right to an 8 hour day with a half hour lunch break and federal safety and wage standards. Otherwise, you're screwed. If you actually valued the immigrants coming here at all, you'd rally them to sign up for citizenship.
 
Let's get back on track....

Q: WHY MUST EVERYTHING BE IN SPANISH?

A: It's not... is CheapAssGamer in Spanish?

Hola! Yo soy el Cheapo Depo y esto es mi amigo... el Chupacabro Wombato!!!
 
I'd just like to know what services illegal immigrants use without paying for. The only one I can think of (but it's a pretty damn big one) is immigrants using emergency rooms instead of going to general practitioners. It doesn't really count since most hospitals are privately run these days. It's caused one hospital to close. Other than that, I don't see any immigrants getting unemployment or even getting a dime from anyone else.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'd just like to know what services illegal immigrants use without paying for. The only one I can think of (but it's a pretty damn big one) is immigrants using emergency rooms instead of going to general practitioners. It doesn't really count since most hospitals are privately run these days. It's caused one hospital to close. Other than that, I don't see any immigrants getting unemployment or even getting a dime from anyone else.[/QUOTE]

You obviously have very little understanding of how the health care system works.
 
[quote name='depascal22']We're not saying that skilled people didn't make this country great. We're just saying that those people aren't coming here in droves so what do we do? People are using our higher educational system and high tailing it back home instead of sticking it out in a country that seems to be more and more anti-immigrant.[/quote]

Skilled immigrants have always and are still coming to America in droves. The great mythical "reverse brain drain" in the news is still many years off, if it happens at all (I doubt it - as bloated and ineffective as our govt is, it's still the thinnest layer of beaucracy that exists)

Haven't you ever wondered why the American medical and technology professions are so diverse and worldly?
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'd just like to know what services illegal immigrants use without paying for. The only one I can think of (but it's a pretty damn big one) is immigrants using emergency rooms instead of going to general practitioners. It doesn't really count since most hospitals are privately run these days. It's caused one hospital to close. Other than that, I don't see any immigrants getting unemployment or even getting a dime from anyone else.[/quote]

This is a situation where games can help - you should def pick up a copy of SimCity. See how many services the poor require versus the taxes they pay, and then get back to me ;)
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'd just like to know what services illegal immigrants use without paying for. The only one I can think of (but it's a pretty damn big one) is immigrants using emergency rooms instead of going to general practitioners. It doesn't really count since most hospitals are privately run these days. It's caused one hospital to close. Other than that, I don't see any immigrants getting unemployment or even getting a dime from anyone else.[/QUOTE]

Erm, you need to do a little reading up on this and other subjects. Illegals use all sorts of government services, and a lot of hospitals have had financial difficulties or closed because of a flood of uninsured illegals going to their emergency rooms and not being able to pay (they have to treat people legally and morally). Try here:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
Click to expand...

Of course, this study includes only government costs and not costs to private hospitals and the like.
 
I would like to see neutral and independent a cost benefit analysis (with no agenda whatsoever) comparing the the costs imposed by illegal immigrants to the benefits our society gains from having them here. The predominant benefit I would assume is in agriculture and sources of cheap labor.

I am not asserting that they give more benefit than detriment, nor vice versa. It would just be interesting to see thats all.

Also, somewhere along the line, people in this thread started equating spanish speakers with illegal aliens which, while the vast majority of illegal aliens happen to be spanish speakers, does not make them the same thing. Many U.S. citizens speak spanish.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'd just like to know what services illegal immigrants use without paying for. The only one I can think of (but it's a pretty damn big one) is immigrants using emergency rooms instead of going to general practitioners. It doesn't really count since most hospitals are privately run these days. It's caused one hospital to close. Other than that, I don't see any immigrants getting unemployment or even getting a dime from anyone else.[/quote]

Do you know what your taxes even go for? Do you read what the bond proposals you vote for each season are?
Come on...
Uh, they're using roads, their children are going to school, using the police/fire dept.

Shit, I'd like to not pay taxes too. Please, pay me under the table!
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Do you know what your taxes even go for? Do you read what the bond proposals you vote for each season are?
Come on...
Uh, they're using roads, their children are going to school, using the police/fire dept.

Shit, I'd like to not pay taxes too. Please, pay me under the table![/quote]

To be honest, being minimum wage earners (some with families) they would be paying a pittance of taxes.

The employers are the one raking in the profits - no need to pay healthcare, taxes for these employees, etc.
 
[quote name='camoor']To be honest, being minimum wage earners (some with families) they would be paying a pittance of taxes.

The employers are the one raking in the profits - no need to pay healthcare, taxes for these employees, etc.[/quote]

Which is why if you valued the immigrant worker at all you'd fight to get them legalized.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top