Wii Storage Space - I Don't Get It

Here you go, WRD. This is an exact, verbatim quote from one of NoA's high level guys about the storage issue from an interview over at IGN:

IGN: We recently had to delete half the games and Channels on our systems to make room for two WiiWare titles. Lack of storage space has become a huge problem. What're your thoughts on this issue? Will Nintendo address it soon?

Tom Prata, NoA Wii Senior Project Manager: Consumers have the option of either deleting the game and downloading it again for no additional Wii Points, or transferring the game from Wii to external SD memory card. They can also eat my ass because they are whiny little fuckers because I have 18 Wiis at my house that I got for free for being a pimp Senior Project Manager, or Senproman, as I have named myself, as Tom Prata is a dumb name and is just my alter ego alias. I fight crime like a reverse Robin Hood - I line the mighty pockets of Nintendo by charging a lot of money for Wiiware titles I don't know shit about.

But back to the point - it's not an issue. All the babies who think it is are stupid babies who need stupid baby diapers. Why not just buy more Wiis and save the data to them, babies? You can have a Wii cluster and then our profits will get even more than more because I managed to convince all the people who already owned one to buy another even though they bitched like bitches. Then I'll get a promotion and another free system to store more shit on. fuck - sometimes I just make extra copies of data on the same system just because I fucking can and you can't, shitbags!

Also, I have a gigantic refrigerator. Seriously, it's huge. I can put a motorcycle in there, and also a naked model on the motorcycle that I can have sex with at the same time. Senproman plays it big, motherfuckers.
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Hooray!
 
WrestleCrap'sRD;4420667 said:
I just think that Nintendo giving us the ability to delete and then re-download for free is something that people either ignore or believe is not any type of solution whatsoever.
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Here's a "what-if" situation that IS possible and can be rather frustrating.

Your console breaks down. You send it in to Nintendo. There's the possibility of it being either repaired, but requiring the memory to be factory reset, or replaced. Say you also did not register your Wii on Nintendo's My Nintendo site.

You are officially fucked. You've lost all of the saves you had on the console. And if you had to have your console replaced, you've also lost whatever WiiWare and Virtual Console games you downloaded due to the console being different.

This is why either a hard drive or making save data capable of being transfered onto an SD card a MUST. When an Xbox 360 breaks down, Microsoft asks for just the console. All of your saves are fine because they're on the hard drive, which they don't ask for you to send in.

Nintendo's usually all about being user friendly and looking out for the customers. Problems like this do come up and it no longer appears user friendly nor does it make them look like they're looking out for the customers. The Wii SHOULD have the option to allow you to save your games on an SD card through the games, rather than transferring via the Wii menu.
 
[quote name='AkariK']And to think I thought it was bad when Nintendo locked saves on the Gamecube (I'm looking at you, FZero). Releasing bigger and bigger memory cards means nothing if your FZero save is stuck on the 59 block card.

I really wish Nintendo would do something right on the first try, and show themselves as actually being interested in the semi-serious to serious gamers that make up most of their customers, rather than screwing them over time and time again.

Personally, I have no love for Nintendo anymore, especially after Brawl was such a big disappointment (Melee was the sole game our GC ever got used for, Brawl sold the Wii for me), so they certainly aren't going to get my money for VC/Wiiware. I'll live with PC emulators.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree with that. I was pretty pissed after I got a bunch of the locked arcade drivers on my save file for F-Zero after inserting my memory card into the F-Zero arcade game and playing a few races. I wanted to upgrade from a 259 card to the 1019 card but my damn F-Zero save was stuck on the 259 card so I ended up keeping both memory cards. I was not about to delete my save, I had to look everywhere to find the F-Zero AC arcade game (which I finally found at Circus Circus arcade in Las Vegas). Locked saves can bite my ass.
 
[quote name='Strell']Here you go, WRD. This is an exact, verbatim quote from one of NoA's high level guys about the storage issue from an interview over at IGN:



Hooray![/QUOTE]

Brilliant!
 
[quote name='hero101']I still think nintendo isn't going to solve the storage problem. They just to add a hard drive to Wii 2.0. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Exactly. There aren't enough of you people with storage problems for Nintendo to make money off a hard drive. It ain't gonna happen. Yes, nintendo cares about you, you just don't matter in the great scheme of things. You've already forked over $1000 + on all your peripherals, games, and virtual content and will probably keep doing the same while you whine and complain - so they still win even though you hate them.

Out of the six personal friends I know that have a Wii, PLUS my parents that make seven, NONE of them will ever have storage problems because they don't download a shit ton of old games for $5-10 a pop. You are in the vast minority when it comes to Wii console ownership. Just having the VC available is fan service for all of you.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Out of the six personal friends I know that have a Wii, PLUS my parents that make seven, NONE of them will ever have storage problems because they don't download a shit ton of old games for $5-10 a pop. You are in the vast minority when it comes to Wii console ownership. Just having the VC available is fan service for all of you.[/QUOTE]

But the people who DO have a storage problem, are the ones who are giving money to them. Eventually, there will be no room and people will stop downloading. That's what we are trying to get at. A bigger HDD or SD card to play off of means more space which means we, the idiots, will be buying even MORE stuff.

I think it's just a silly thing as they could be making even MORE money. (Which is sick, since they are already making a BILLLION dollars a minute)
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Exactly. There aren't enough of you people with storage problems for Nintendo to make money off a hard drive. It ain't gonna happen. Yes, nintendo cares about you, you just don't matter in the great scheme of things. You've already forked over $1000 + on all your peripherals, games, and virtual content and will probably keep doing the same while you whine and complain - so they still win even though you hate them.

Out of the six personal friends I know that have a Wii, PLUS my parents that make seven, NONE of them will ever have storage problems because they don't download a shit ton of old games for $5-10 a pop. You are in the vast minority when it comes to Wii console ownership. Just having the VC available is fan service for all of you.[/QUOTE]

I would also add that if you had a "full system", and Nintendo released Mother or Super Mario RPG or whatever else is hotly anticipated, and even those that are saying "I will never download anything again! Screw you, Nintendo!" would find a game to delete and download later. And then the "boycott" would end, at least for that one game.

I'm just wondering why a third party wouldn't come up with something if it's such a big issue to so many hardcores...

RD
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Exactly. There aren't enough of you people with storage problems for Nintendo to make money off a hard drive. It ain't gonna happen. Yes, nintendo cares about you, you just don't matter in the great scheme of things. You've already forked over $1000 + on all your peripherals, games, and virtual content and will probably keep doing the same while you whine and complain - so they still win even though you hate them.[/QUOTE]

And I happen to disagree. Why ignore the piece of the pie, be it small, that is likely contributing to a large percentage of the profits AND influences the other consumers that make up a larger portion of the pie?

Besides, very little is actually needed from Nintendo here. The Wii already has USB ports/SD cards and an update to allow us to use them and play saves off either storage location is an easy solution without the need for the development of an expensive hard drive attachment.
 
WrestleCrap'sRD;4429953]I would also add that if you had a "full system" said:
I'm going to guess that there isn't an easy solution, because if there's room for an accessory in the market, it's going to be made. It wouldn't be too hard to get a USB based system running, so I would assume the roadblock would be the Wii's firmware.

I may be in a minority, but the storage doesn't seem like a huge problem to me yet. I can think of one or two VC games I've downloaded that have sat unplayed for at least a month, and even if it is a pain in the ass to transfer the files, it won't kill me to do it - I can just start the transfer before I go do laundry or eat, and it should be done by the time I come back.

The locked saves are a bigger issue, but I can understand Nintendo's perspective on that too: there's a chance it would break online play. Look at Mario Kart - the rankings and stats are stored in each person's profile, and those are used to help determine matchups. If everyone was able to download the profile of the guy with the highest ranking to an SD card and used it, chaos would almost definitely ensue.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I can understand their vantage point.
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WrestleCrap'sRD;4429953]I would also add that if you had a "full system" said:
Now that's not a fair take on this at all. You're talking about what are probably the two most wanted games right now, and certainly among the top 5 when it comes to the people who actually pay attention to the VC. Which - again - since this is the one part of Nintendo's strategy that's fully funded by those same people, you can't really make this argument. It would be like some band releasing a special limited edition of their earliest CD, or reissuing a rare LP, or something that appeals to that set, and then the band acting like "Oh gosh we're like really surprised you dorks actually want this."

Further, if Earthbound comes out, I'm going to be buying multiple copies of it. I realize that it will probably be futile, but I want to send a message to NoA that the fanbase is pretty serious about it, and we'd absolutely do anything we could to get Mother 3 translated (even if starmen.net is basically trying to do that right now). It'll be gifted to several people on my list, and I'm going to encourage others to do the same if they have the means.

As it stands, I've bought maybe 4-5 games this year so far, which is probably half as many as I had this time last year. Part of that has to do with the piss poor release schedule, and the other has to do with the stupid memory issues. It's pure profit lost to Nintendo. Yeah, maybe only 20-30 bucks from me, and maybe there's only another thousand people that can make that claim.

As for third parties not enacting a solution....well, do you consider homebrew kids as a third party? I guess they really aren't in the "official" sense, but they are in the "some agency" sense. And they have enacted SD card loaded and the ability to back up all of your saves.

I don't know much about programming, and I know even less about memory structures and all the technicalities that come with that particular segment - buffers, addresses, input/output mechanics, workflows, etc - but I'm pretty sure it would take Nintendo's programmers all of one day to write in a firmware update that added SD loading. The guys writing their OS could knock that ish out in a few hours I'm guessing.

Meanwhile, Nintendo continues to think "hey, since it only affects a small percentage, it doesn't affect us as a whole." That's incorrect reasoning. If not for the fact that the solution would (most likely) be simple to implement, then what about the fact that it would help VC sales? That it would help third parties who want DLC and other such abilities?

It would be like a car manufacturer today thinking that CD players are a useless accessory that "only the CD owners would use, and we just can't be sure who owns CDs these days." Yeah - you can save the 10 bucks putting in a cassette deck rather than a CD deck - but you're hurting yourself in ways that are indirectly measurable.
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If you play VC games (like I do myself), then you're cool with spending 8-10 bucks on a snes game that in most cases can be easily bought for less. The tradeoff? Convience. I love knowing that I dont have to plug in a snes/genesis/TG16/ NG4/etc...etc... for a bit of gametime with the classics. And unless you're stealing mom's credit card, more than likely the demographic for wii ware and VC is around 21-30, the ages of what VC would likely cater to. 21-30 year old gamers probably make a bit of cash, (IE: gaming is expencive), so whats the issue with releasing a media capable of playing this content without inconviencing the customer?

My point is, you're paying a premium for convience.

So Nintendo, release a 40-60GB hard drive standalone for the USB expansion already on the Wii for the higher demographic because they're the demographic filling up their internal storage. You'll charge at the nose for it, (par for this stuff, across the board) and everyone will be happy. And do it before 3rd party does.

Success.
 
[quote name='lilboo']But the people who DO have a storage problem, are the ones who are giving money to them. Eventually, there will be no room and people will stop downloading. That's what we are trying to get at. A bigger HDD or SD card to play off of means more space which means we, the idiots, will be buying even MORE stuff.

I think it's just a silly thing as they could be making even MORE money. (Which is sick, since they are already making a BILLLION dollars a minute)[/QUOTE]

No, see, just like wrestlecrap said - Your demographic won't stop downloading. You'll bitch and moan about no hardrive and STILL download more titles. If they came out with a HDD, you'll bitch about the price and maybe half of this hardcore demographic will buy one and STILL bitch about no voice chat and friend codes and online play.

Somehow I think Nintendo knows there's no way to completely please you people yet you constantly demonstrate your unconditional devotion to the brand no matter what they do or don't do. Like I said before, the mere existence of the VC product was fan service for your group as no 50 year old grandma is going to be downloading Gunstar Heroes, ever.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a USB hard drive for the Wii. It's just not going to happen. Look at the PS2 HDD. I'm sure Nintendo looked at that as a good lesson in how not to do business. The main impedance to mass storage has to be piracy, after that - compatibility. Games made to use the hard drive would be incompatible for the userbase that didn't have one creating consumer confusion.

Look at how many sku's the 360 and PS3 have. Mary Jane Mom doesn't know square one which version of the Xbox360 little Johnny has, and wouldn't know which one to buy for Christmas either. Another lesson I'm sure Nintendo executives understand: that their consumers aren't 8 hour a day gaming fanatics and know every detail and spec. of every console version on the store shelf.
 
Your whole argument is predicated on "we don't need a hard drive," or "wii don't need a hard drive," depending on how cheeky one wishes to be.

However, it's not required. Just enable SD load access with a firmware update. Problem solved, and a cheap and quick solution at that.

As Mooky pointed out, though, Nintendo could easily just release their own branded HD, charge an arm and a leg for it, reap in the profits, and people like me would gladly do so. You have a point about "maybe half of us" would buy it, but it would make me happy.

Hell, offer it online only so you don't overship/end up with useless product.
 
[quote name='Strell']Your whole argument is predicated on "we don't need a hard drive," or "wii don't need a hard drive," depending on how cheeky one wishes to be.

However, it's not required. Just enable SD load access with a firmware update. Problem solved, and a cheap and quick solution at that. [/quote]

This.

Or a firmware update allows more USB storage devices (including hard drives) and allows games and channels to save to those devices.

No one would have to buy anything if they didn't want to, but they would still be able to connect whatever (to an extent) USB storage device to the Wii that they want.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']No, see, just like wrestlecrap said - Your demographic won't stop downloading. You'll bitch and moan about no hardrive and STILL download more titles. If they came out with a HDD, you'll bitch about the price and maybe half of this hardcore demographic will buy one and STILL bitch about no voice chat and friend codes and online play.
[/QUOTE]

Well, you have our demographic wrong. I haven't bought a title since Donkey Kong Country 3. I have spent over a hundred dollars on VC games to fill up my wii and there a dozens out that I would love, but I have stopped buying because of the HD issue. So yes I will bitch and moan, but NO I will not delete games to download more titles. I may be stubborn, but I have played Nintendo since I was three years old and have always been a fan and if Nintendo doesn't want to listen to their most loyal fans (yes, I would consider myself one) then they have lost their foundation. Sure money is important, but that seems to be all Nintendo cares about now-a-days. There will be two games that I will purchase in the future: Earthbound and Pilotwings 64. I probably have just enough space for both. After that, I will be content and will just play with what I have. I will delete no games.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Well, you have our demographic wrong. I haven't bought a title since Donkey Kong Country 3. I have spent over a hundred dollars on VC games to fill up my wii and there a dozens out that I would love, but I have stopped buying because of the HD issue. So yes I will bitch and moan, but NO I will not delete games to download more titles. I may be stubborn, but I have played Nintendo since I was three years old and have always been a fan and if Nintendo doesn't want to listen to their most loyal fans (yes, I would consider myself one) then they have lost their foundation. Sure money is important, but that seems to be all Nintendo cares about now-a-days. There will be two games that I will purchase in the future: Earthbound and Pilotwings 64. I probably have just enough space for both. After that, I will be content and will just play with what I have. I will delete no games.[/quote]

Bravo. You're the kind of person we need to get out there in mass numbers and teach Nintendo a lesson. It's a pity that the truly unforgiving mindset is such a minority these days. Although, I really just think Nintendo is going 'We are making money now, so we're not going to touch anything. The rest of you can go to hell, and we'll laugh at you. Maybe when the system dies like the Gamecube, we'll fix it all in the next console'.

Someone mentioned earlier that putting in an HD led to piracy. Hell, the Wii already has modchips out. I can already download any Wii game I want and play it - I buy the good ones anyway (and did any of you read that article where they stated that 40% of all Wii games [at the time of the article, like 3 months ago] got a rating of 40% or lower?). What could adding an HD possibly do to make it worse?
 
Oh god. GameCube flashbacks here.

Nintendo was stubborn as hell about online play with the GameCube (claiming there wasn't a need for it) and pushed the damned GBA-GCN connectivity.

Now we have the problem of space issues and them offering a completely DIFFERENT answer than what we want.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']Oh god. GameCube flashbacks here.

Nintendo was stubborn as hell about online play with the GameCube (claiming there wasn't a need for it) and pushed the damned GBA-GCN connectivity.

Now we have the problem of space issues and them offering a completely DIFFERENT answer than what we want.[/quote]
+1
What Nintendo doesn't seem to be getting is that yeah, sure, Wii is printing shitloads of money. But a lot of those casual people that are helping Nintendo out now will be nowhere to be seen unless Ninty's next console launches with Wii Sports 2. It's the diehard fans that got Nintendo through the Gamecube. It's the diehard fans who bought that damned E-Reader. It's the diehard fans that bought Nintendo's BS through good and bad. And maybe Nintendo thinks they won't fall, but it was that cocky attitude that led us from SNES to Gamecube.
 
[quote name='Strell']Your whole argument is predicated on "we don't need a hard drive," or "wii don't need a hard drive," depending on how cheeky one wishes to be.

However, it's not required. Just enable SD load access with a firmware update. Problem solved, and a cheap and quick solution at that.

As Mooky pointed out, though, Nintendo could easily just release their own branded HD, charge an arm and a leg for it, reap in the profits, and people like me would gladly do so. You have a point about "maybe half of us" would buy it, but it would make me happy.

Hell, offer it online only so you don't overship/end up with useless product.[/QUOTE]

I think this was directed at me, so I'll respond:

My argument's premise wasn't "We don't need a harddrive." As I said, I'd love one. It's that Nintendo doesn't need to make one, period, no matter how many squeaky wheels there are under the bus. There just aren't enough of you. Plus, Nintendo already has a shit ton of your money and with all likelihood, will keep getting it whether they make a storage device or not.

And arguing that Nintendo should make it because there's already piracy is not a valid argument. Piracy in America is relatively negligible compared to other regions, but it doesn't mean they have to make it easier for the pirates make illegality more available to the general market. It's very probable that creating this simple fiirmware function to load off SD cards would allow the Wii to be more easily hacked by the pirate community, especially if no extra hardware is required. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't want to open that box.

We all know how easily the DS is hacked for homebrew. A relatively simple process for nerds, but near impossible to a 10 year old or a mom becuase you have to buy special hardware, know what to download, where to put it, and deal with all kinds of compatibility and file conversion issues. Mod chips are not child's play either, nor is the Zelda save exploit. Piracy is basically out of reach to 99% off the market because they are not as savvy as we are with computers.

Just think of how easy it could be to write a small program to take over control of the Wii and play every 8 bit game ever made through a simple download to your SD card from your computer. Great for the homebrew community, but horrible for Nintendo as they spend countless dollars trying to close the door they opened and lose money from the VC games that the rabid fanbase stops buying, because they're now getting them for free.

And don't freaking lie to yourselves, or me - as soon as you knew all you had to do was download a boot file and some roms and transfer them to an SD card, NONE of you would be forking it over to the big N anymore.
 
didnt read this whole thread, so sorry if it's been mentioned, but a hard drive or open SD access would not only solve our laziness with VC/WW games, but also open up new possibilities.

for example.. not sure how many of you listen to Major Nelson's podcast,but he interviewed the Penny Arcade guys, and they cited the Wii's storage issue as the sole reason that their game wasn't coming out for WW. They even put that game out for LINUX, so i tend to believe them. So even at that, we know we're missing Rock Band DLC, Guitar Hero DLC, 4 Penny Arcade games, and who knows what else.

Remember the rumors about the Nintendo Power channel a while back? could that be a victim of storage too?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']I think this was directed at me, so I'll respond:

My argument's premise wasn't "We don't need a harddrive." As I said, I'd love one. It's that Nintendo doesn't need to make one, period, no matter how many squeaky wheels there are under the bus. There just aren't enough of you. Plus, Nintendo already has a shit ton of your money and with all likelihood, will keep getting it whether they make a storage device or not. [/quote]

they don't have to, but it would be bad business if they didn't. If they make $5m in VC sales in a year(i have no idea, just throwing a number out), that number could be $7 or $8m if people didnt have to jump through hoops to manage the games they have stored. heck, with the "expanded audience" of the Wii, most of them dont even know what an SD card is, let alone how to use it in the wii.

And arguing that Nintendo should make it because there's already piracy is not a valid argument. Piracy in America is relatively negligible compared to other regions, but it doesn't mean they have to make it easier for the pirates make illegality more available to the general market. It's very probable that creating this simple fiirmware function to load off SD cards would allow the Wii to be more easily hacked by the pirate community, especially if no extra hardware is required. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't want to open that box.
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The box is open. You can go to any bittorrent tracker and download WW channels. Once it's setup it's MUCH faster to install them from an SD card using homebrew tools than it is to re-download them, or to use Nintendo's tools for copying them back and forth.

We all know how easily the DS is hacked for homebrew. A relatively simple process for nerds, but near impossible to a 10 year old or a mom becuase you have to buy special hardware, know what to download, where to put it, and deal with all kinds of compatibility and file conversion issues. Mod chips are not child's play either, nor is the Zelda save exploit. Piracy is basically out of reach to 99% off the market because they are not as savvy as we are with computers.
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the Wii already tags the VC channels on your SD card with the id of the wii that owns them. nothing would change by letting the Wii execute those channels. it just needs to do the same check before executing that it does before copying.

Just think of how easy it could be to write a small program to take over control of the Wii and play every 8 bit game ever made through a simple download to your SD card from your computer. Great for the homebrew community, but horrible for Nintendo as they spend countless dollars trying to close the door they opened and lose money from the VC games that the rabid fanbase stops buying, because they're now getting them for free.
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That too, is already out there, and again it's easier/faster to work with the homebrew tools than Nintendo's supported ones. In theory I can fit hundreds of SNES games on a 2gb SD card. Homebrew emulators can access them right from the card, the Wii cannot. Think of MP3's. iTunes is one of the top music retailers.. because they made it just as easy to BUY music as it was to pirate it.

And don't freaking lie to yourselves, or me - as soon as you knew all you had to do was download a boot file and some roms and transfer them to an SD card, NONE of you would be forking it over to the big N anymore.
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that's not true at all. I'll be the first to admit that I had Dr. Mario installed on my Wii before it came out here in the US. the day it was released on WiiWare officially, i deleted that copy and purchased the legit one. I also demo'd Defend Your Castle for about 10 minutes. It wasn't my type of game so i got rid of it, but if I had liked it, i absolutely would have purchased it(that's a side argument for nintendo to release demos!)

Bottom line: Just because we want ease of use doesn't mean we're unethical.
 
WrestleCrap'sRD;4420667]I understand that these games take more space said:
..at the very least they should let the games download in the background, and let us set up a download queue. heck, for that matter, let us make "playlists" of games that we can download together in one shot. at least then you could start downloading that 40mb WiiWare game while you hop in to play something else for a while. until it's done.

and this is being extra nitpicky, but give us the option of a real progress bar and memory display in real units. I think almost everyone knows what a MB is,.. but i dont have a CLUE what a "block" is. I just know I have about 300 of them.
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[quote name='bmulligan']My argument's premise wasn't "We don't need a harddrive." As I said, I'd love one. It's that Nintendo doesn't need to make one, period, no matter how many squeaky wheels there are under the bus. There just aren't enough of you. Plus, Nintendo already has a shit ton of your money and with all likelihood, will keep getting it whether they make a storage device or not.[/quote]

Yet you turn right around, again, and make the counter argument against a hard drive. Fine, we get it. You don't need one, but don't go around making claims that none of us do.

[quote name='bmulligan']And arguing that Nintendo should make it because there's already piracy is not a valid argument. Piracy in America is relatively negligible compared to other regions, but it doesn't mean they have to make it easier for the pirates make illegality more available to the general market. It's very probable that creating this simple fiirmware function to load off SD cards would allow the Wii to be more easily hacked by the pirate community, especially if no extra hardware is required. I'm sure Nintendo doesn't want to open that box.[/quote]

The point here is that piracy should not be a deterrent to making a hard drive. In no way am I saying that Nintendo should not implement preventative piracy measures with a hard drive. Look at the iPhone. Look at mod chips. "Piracy is the problem" is not a good excuse to ignore key features that should not be left out of a system.

[quote name='bmulligan']Just think of how easy it could be to write a small program to take over control of the Wii and play every 8 bit game ever made through a simple download to your SD card from your computer. Great for the homebrew community, but horrible for Nintendo as they spend countless dollars trying to close the door they opened and lose money from the VC games that the rabid fanbase stops buying, because they're now getting them for free.

And don't freaking lie to yourselves, or me - as soon as you knew all you had to do was download a boot file and some roms and transfer them to an SD card, NONE of you would be forking it over to the big N anymore.[/QUOTE]

By that logic, the music industry should be failing. But it's not.
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']Yet you turn right around, again, and make the counter argument against a hard drive. Fine, we get it. You don't need one, but don't go around making claims that none of us do.[/quote]

You're not READING. You're EMOTING. I'll say for a THIRD TIME - I'd love a Hard Drive for the Wii. I'm not arguing why there shouldn't be one, I'm giving an arguments as to WHY Nintendo won't make one. There's a big difference there that you seem to be oblivious to.

Just because WE (see that? - WE, as in me too!) want one doesn't make it a good business decision to fabricate a product and write the software for it's implementation. There is a thing called diminishing returns and scale of economies in marketplace economics. Products don't just appear out of thin air and turn a profit. There are many things that have to be planned, and paid for for it to happen. If you think they'd only make 8 million dollars from a HDD from new VC downloads, you just disproved your own argument for making one. That would probably cover the marketing budget for the product- never mind the R&D, the factory tooling, programming, distribution, tech support and a myriad of other costs they may never recoup.



The point here is that piracy should not be a deterrent to making a hard drive. In no way am I saying that Nintendo should not implement preventative piracy measures with a hard drive. Look at the iPhone. Look at mod chips. "Piracy is the problem" is not a good excuse to ignore key features that should not be left out of a system.
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But piracy IS a good reason NOT to make a storage device that will get used for illegal content, and make it easier to do so by giving pirates direct access to Wii BIOS instead of a 10 step process with special hacking hardware. The point is why should Nintendo spend the money to implement anti-piracy measures and keep having to maintain and support new HD hardware and software when they can just sit on their hands and keep making great profits with their current business model?


By that logic, the music industry should be failing. But it's not.
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Guess what? The music and movie industries are in a slow, progressive decline.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
The point is why should Nintendo spend the money to implement anti-piracy measures and keep having to maintain and support new HD hardware and software when they can just sit on their hands and keep making great profits with their current business model?
[/quote]
Stop making sense. These guys want their hard drive and economics be damned!
[quote name='bmulligan']
Guess what? The music and movie industries are in a slow, progressive decline.[/quote]
There is some evidence that (while there is a decline), it is not nearly as drastic as it would seem. A huge chunk of revenue for these industries was catching up on releasing back catalogue items in the new format. Once they reached near-saturation point for these items, they were left to rely primarily on new releases. Nintendo is currently milking that back catalogue, but (like the music and movie industires), the bulk of buyers don't amass huge collections.
 
[quote name='smoger']they don't have to, but it would be bad business if they didn't. If they make $5m in VC sales in a year(i have no idea, just throwing a number out), that number could be $7 or $8m if people didnt have to jump through hoops to manage the games they have stored. heck, with the "expanded audience" of the Wii, most of them dont even know what an SD card is, let alone how to use it in the wii.[/quote]

As you said - you don't know. You just throw numbers out there and have no idea that smarter men than you are crunching those numbers and the announcements haven't come yet about a spankin' new HDD, have they?



The box is open. You can go to any bittorrent tracker and download WW channels. Once it's setup it's MUCH faster to install them from an SD card using homebrew tools than it is to re-download them, or to use Nintendo's tools for copying them back and forth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and mom and grampa have any idea what bittorrent is, right? And they know how to use the Zelda exploit, right? And they know how to use freeloader and where to buy it, right ? Right. You are proving my point that giving hackers a direct pipeline to the Wii I/O bus with a HDD would/could make all the special hardware and tricks obsolete, creating a streamlined process to make piracy available to many more people. Right now it isn't widely known or easily available.


that's not true at all. I'll be the first to admit that I had Dr. Mario installed on my Wii before it came out here in the US. the day it was released on WiiWare officially, i deleted that copy and purchased the legit one. I also demo'd Defend Your Castle for about 10 minutes. It wasn't my type of game so i got rid of it, but if I had liked it, i absolutely would have purchased it(that's a side argument for nintendo to release demos!)Bottom line: Just because we want ease of use doesn't mean we're unethical.
Click to expand...

Well, that makes ONE semi-ethical pirate. Perhaps one or 2 more would make Nintendo suddenly change it's mind. Nintendo doesn't seem at all interested in pushing VC games for profit by volume. If they were, we'd see reduced rates or packages, or at least freebie incentives for other product purchases. Hell, we don't even have the Nintendo club in the States and probably never will. There's just is no compelling reason to make a HDD or direct SD card resident software (if it's even possible) other than YOU really, really want them to do it. It's just not going to happen. They're making enough money off Wii's and games as it is.

I'm also not saying it's pointless to bitch about it. I'm sure they're making the Wii 2 right now and gearing up for a release around 2010. If they hear enough demand, it will, no doubt, be included in the next machine. But don't hold your breath for the Wii32XTurboDuo add-on peripheral.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You're not READING. You're EMOTING. I'll say for a THIRD TIME - I'd love a Hard Drive for the Wii. I'm not arguing why there shouldn't be one, I'm giving an arguments as to WHY Nintendo won't make one. There's a big difference there that you seem to be oblivious to.[/QUOTE]

As there seems to have been a misunderstanding, it would have helped if you had clarified slightly better. Since I'm not the only one who seem to think that your argument was as such, I don't feel that I was "oblivious" to it.

[quote name='bmulligan']Just because WE (see that? - WE, as in me too!) want one doesn't make it a good business decision to fabricate a product and write the software for it's implementation. There is a thing called diminishing returns and scale of economies in marketplace economics. Products don't just appear out of thin air and turn a profit. There are many things that have to be planned, and paid for for it to happen. If you think they'd only make 8 million dollars from a HDD from new VC downloads, you just disproved your own argument for making one. That would probably cover the marketing budget for the product- never mind the R&D, the factory tooling, programming, distribution, tech support and a myriad of other costs they may never recoup.[/QUOTE]

I'm well aware of economics of development. And if you looked, most of us aren't even suggesting a hard drive but rather allowing games/saves to be played/moved from the SD card. But let's seriously think about this.

It was revealed that 10 million VC games were sold to date this past February. Let's say each game was an average of $7, so that works out close to $70 million. If only 5% of the current wii console owners were to buy an additional game (let's say 25 million) due to additional storage, you would have around $8.75 million. Keep in mind, I'm not even considering potential WiiWare sales + price increase, and I'm giving what I consider very conservative numbers.

Do you really believe that the R&D for a firmware change is really going to make its way up to $8.75 million? There's probably quite a few (smaller) console games where development doesn't even run that high, and I imagine the man hours is likely to be much greater in those instances.

[quote name='bmulligan']But piracy IS a good reason NOT to make a storage device that will get used for illegal content, and make it easier to do so by giving pirates direct access to Wii BIOS instead of a 10 step process with special hacking hardware. The point is why should Nintendo spend the money to implement anti-piracy measures and keep having to maintain and support new HD hardware and software when they can just sit on their hands and keep making great profits with their current business model?[/QUOTE]

Spoons and forks are a tool used to feed fat people, so they obviously should be abolished.

All jokes aside, both the 360 and PS3 have hard drives and seem to be doing fairly well even with piracy in consideration. 45 million titles on XLA (Aug 2007). I couldn't find numbers for the PSN Store, so I don't know what to compare there. If Microsoft and Sony can do it, why can't Nintendo? I feel that Nintendo by "sitting on their hands" is missing out on even greater profits, and really leaving the Wii behind the times.

[quote name='bmulligan']Guess what? The music and movie industries are in a slow, progressive decline.[/QUOTE]

Really? The music industry isn't in a decline, it's shifting gears to catch up with the changing technology, which is really the whole point here with additional storage to the Wii.

Aside from all that I've mentioned, us "wanting" a hard drive for additional VC/WiiWare games isn't the only reason. What about developers? What about DLC for games?

It seems clear that at this point we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I feel like I have some sound points as to why the Wii needs additional storage, be it a hard drive or SD capabilities. Storage these days is cheap, and there should be no excuse not to address it at this time.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']My argument's premise wasn't "We don't need a harddrive." As I said, I'd love one. It's that Nintendo doesn't need to make one, period, no matter how many squeaky wheels there are under the bus. There just aren't enough of you. Plus, Nintendo already has a shit ton of your money and with all likelihood, will keep getting it whether they make a storage device or not. [/quote]
There's a HUGE difference between NEED and NOT WANTING TO DO IT.

The Wii NEEDS a solution to memory space that isn't an ass-backwards and half-assed idea that someone is getting paid up the wazoo just to take one minute to tell you. Bullshit. I want a REAL solution. Deleting things doesn't solve my problem. It just further delays the inevitable. Sooner or later, my Wii's gonna be full again. And guess what? I can't move save files to an SD card if they're locked. Now what? I'm fucked. Why? Because regular Wii games don't give the option to save onto SD.

And if I do move shit onto my SD card? Same thing's gonna happen. Sooner or later, that SD card is gonna get full. So when my SD card and Wii are full, what now? Buy ANOTHER SD card? That's not a fucking solution. That's just making things highly inconvenient and forcing me to either delete things I don't want to or making me shell out more money.

It's times like these where I'm glad that the Wii's suffering from a god awful third party shovelware-fest. Makes it easier on me to not have to buy anything for a while. Lord knows how many more of Nintendo's upcoming games are going to come out and take up over 100 blocks of space and include firmware upgrades and additional channels.

Quit dicking around, Nintendo. Everytime we NEED something, you try giving us a bullshit excuse why you're not gonna do it. GameCube needed online play. You told us we didn't want it and gave us GBA-GCN connectivity, instead. We told you we needed better third party support after the awful support N64 and GameCube got. Instead, you said reaching everyone was more important and gave developers free reign to do what they pleased with the Wii, leading to us having titles such as Ninjabread Man, Chicken Shoot, and Game Party. Knock it off!

[quote name='bmulligan']Guess what? The music and movie industries are in a slow, progressive decline.[/quote]
That's because movies have lost originality and all music is starting to sound like the same shit. Movies and music stopped being good near the mid-90s.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']That's because movies have lost originality and all music is starting to sound like the same shit. Movies and music stopped being good near the mid-90s.[/quote]
That is so insightful! I never thought of it that way before! You should get a job as an industry analyst.

This is the best thread ever.
 
Ok, so it's an economic issue? Have we not already discussed the numerous things that Nintendo has produced that went nowhere?

Just from the last few years:

E-Reader
GC Broadband
DS Rumble Pack
DS Web Browser
GBA Connectivity Cable
GC DK Bongos

... and you're telling me it's a money issue? Nintendo has a history of producing things that *maybe* have lukewarm sales, and even less support. Jesus, just look at the Broadband adaptor... Nintendo basically made and sold something they didn't even support. This is why I can't get behind the 'economic' argument against this. Also, lest we forget, Nintendo also produced most of those when they *weren't* rolling around in bathtubs of money. At least an HDD would be useful (and I still don't think it's the best option, I stand behind the SD card).

Now... issue 2. Piracy. Look, we're all adults here: piracy exists, and nothing Nintendo does or doesn't do is going to prevent it. Now, the casual market, who seem to be giving them a ton of money, is NEVER going to buy into piracy, HDD (or SD enabled) or not. So that basically takes them out of the equation. No matter what, Nintendo makes boatloads off of them. The second, of course, is the 'hardcore' crowd. This is where the piracy comes from... but guess what? It's still a TINY TINY TINY percentage of them. It's foolish to think that everyone in the 'know' (i.e. people on this board) pirate games. I'd venture to say that most simply don't. Making it easier isn't suddenly going to sway everyone into doing it and, guess what, they'll still buy the games. Or, at least, still buy Nintendo's games. Look at the sales for Nintendo produced games... Galaxy, Brawl, Paper Mario... piracy sure hurt those sales, huh?

The point is... Nintendo, both from a monetary or piracy standpoint, doesn't have much to lose by giving us a way to have more space, be it an HDD or enabling the SD slot. Period.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']Movies and music stopped being good near the mid-90s.[/QUOTE]Let me guess: you're about 28-30?
 
[quote name='Tsukento']And if I do move shit onto my SD card? Same thing's gonna happen. Sooner or later, that SD card is gonna get full. So when my SD card and Wii are full, what now? Buy ANOTHER SD card? That's not a fucking solution. That's just making things highly inconvenient and forcing me to either delete things I don't want to or making me shell out more money.[/QUOTE]

Given that you can get a 2GB SD card for less than $10 now, I don't think money's a good argument here - if there's a hard drive, who knows how much it's going to cost?

[quote name='007']Ok, so it's an economic issue? Have we not already discussed the numerous things that Nintendo has produced that went nowhere?

Just from the last few years:

E-Reader
GC Broadband
DS Rumble Pack
DS Web Browser
GBA Connectivity Cable
GC DK Bongos

... and you're telling me it's a money issue? Nintendo has a history of producing things that *maybe* have lukewarm sales, and even less support. Jesus, just look at the Broadband adaptor... Nintendo basically made and sold something they didn't even support.[/QUOTE]
Who's to say that they'd actually support a hard drive, or wouldn't find some way of implementing it that would impede or destroy its ability to be useful?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Nintendo add-ons from the past decade or so that were actually successful - the N64's Transfer Pak, Rumble Pak, and Expansion Pak were moderately successful at best, and even then it was only because they were packaged in with first party titles. Even now, a lot of the accessories out there don't seem to be selling very well. The Wii Zapper, for instance, is still sitting on the shelves in the stores in my area.

I don't know how much money Nintendo made off of those accessories or any others that are slipping my mind right now, but after so many accessories that haven't sold all that well, maybe they're deciding to back off for a while? These kinds of things can generate a LOT of unsold product and occupy a lot of space (anyone else remember the giant stacks of DK Bongos in GameStop stores last year?) if they aren't successful, and that might be why Nintendo hasn't released a hard drive yet.
 
[quote name='MisterHand']Let me guess: you're about 28-30?[/quote]

o_O whats this have to do wtih movies and music I'm 31 and find new music and movies all the time I like. I'm a bit more picky I admit given I have more realistic feel for where my money is coming from and where it needs to go(bills suck). But I still enjoy modern movies and music. Back on topic Nintendos put out a lot of bad perhiprials when is a better time than now to made one that the VC enthusist would enjoy?
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']Given that you can get a 2GB SD card for less than $10 now, I don't think money's a good argument here - if there's a hard drive, who knows how much it's going to cost?


Who's to say that they'd actually support a hard drive, or wouldn't find some way of implementing it that would impede or destroy its ability to be useful?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Nintendo add-ons from the past decade or so that were actually successful - the N64's Transfer Pak, Rumble Pak, and Expansion Pak were moderately successful at best, and even then it was only because they were packaged in with first party titles. Even now, a lot of the accessories out there don't seem to be selling very well. The Wii Zapper, for instance, is still sitting on the shelves in the stores in my area.

I don't know how much money Nintendo made off of those accessories or any others that are slipping my mind right now, but after so many accessories that haven't sold all that well, maybe they're deciding to back off for a while? These kinds of things can generate a LOT of unsold product and occupy a lot of space (anyone else remember the giant stacks of DK Bongos in GameStop stores last year?) if they aren't successful, and that might be why Nintendo hasn't released a hard drive yet.[/quote]

Ok, but let's be fair here... not even counting the plethora of controllers for the Wii, we've got the Wii Zapper, the Wii Wheel, and the Wii Balance Board already. Now, there is NOTHING there to indicate that they're 'backing off' a bit and, even if there were, it would be a little ridiculous to use the fact that a shell for the Wiimote isn't selling to rule out producing what would be a functional memory card. Then again, the Balance Board *is* selling (be fair, people wouldn't by a board-less WiiFit), so that's actually proof that some sort of FUNCTIONAL accessory would sell.

Hell, if we want to get all 'conspiracy theory', they could just intentionally make an HDD and release it in small numbers so it becomes rare and sought after, thereby creating an artificial demand, just like they did with the Wii, amirite? ;)
 
[quote name='MisterHand']Let me guess: you're about 28-30?[/quote]
22, actually.

[quote name='Gothic Walrus']Given that you can get a 2GB SD card for less than $10 now, I don't think money's a good argument here - if there's a hard drive, who knows how much it's going to cost?[/quote]
Convenience is also a factor. If I'm gonna need to buy something to resolve space issues, I'd rather buy something once and not have to worry about going out to the store to buy more SD cards.

But as I've also said before, unlocking saves is also a necessity. Otherwise, you really are forced to delete something you may not want to get rid of just to save space.


[quote name='Gothic Walrus']The Wii Zapper, for instance, is still sitting on the shelves in the stores in my area.[/QUOTE]
Nintendo hasn't really given the Wii Zapper much of any advertisement, compared to something like the Rumble Pak. Hell, the e-Reader had more advertising than the Wii Zapper. It also has to do with the fact that very few games make actual use of the Zapper. In fact, the only two games that really benefit from it are Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles and House of the Dead 2 & 3.

Lack of advertising and lack of games to really make any use of it have made it pretty much unknown. Also doesn't help stores set it up in the dark corners of their Wii sections and that the Nyko Perfect Shot is much more appealing, and cheaper compared to the bouncing price the Zapper has (some places it's $19.99, others it's $24.99).

[quote name='Gothic Walrus'] I don't know how much money Nintendo made off of those accessories or any others that are slipping my mind right now, but after so many accessories that haven't sold all that well, maybe they're deciding to back off for a while? These kinds of things can generate a LOT of unsold product and occupy a lot of space (anyone else remember the giant stacks of DK Bongos in GameStop stores last year?) if they aren't successful, and that might be why Nintendo hasn't released a hard drive yet.[/quote]
Don't be so sure. In terms of accessories by Nintendo (ones that sport their logo on packaging), we've got...

-Wii remote
-Nunchuck
-Classic Controller
-SD Cards
-Wii Zapper
-Wii Wheel
-Wii Balance Board
-Wii Component Cables
-DS/Wii Wi-Fi USB Dongle
-Wii Remote Gloves
-Wii Game Wallets
-Wii Remote Carrying Cases
-Wii Sling Bag
-Wii Storage and Protection Kit

Then you have official accessories for major third party games like Guitar Hero guitars, Rock Band instruments, and DDR's dance pad. Some of these accessories are just for controllers alone.

Nintendo doesn't really care how many accessories they throw out there, even if they don't sell. They did it with Game Boy, Game Boy Color, GBA, Micro, and even DS and DS Lite.
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Well, you have our demographic wrong. I haven't bought a title since Donkey Kong Country 3. I have spent over a hundred dollars on VC games to fill up my wii and there a dozens out that I would love, but I have stopped buying because of the HD issue. So yes I will bitch and moan, but NO I will not delete games to download more titles. I may be stubborn, but I have played Nintendo since I was three years old and have always been a fan and if Nintendo doesn't want to listen to their most loyal fans (yes, I would consider myself one) then they have lost their foundation. Sure money is important, but that seems to be all Nintendo cares about now-a-days. There will be two games that I will purchase in the future: Earthbound and Pilotwings 64. I probably have just enough space for both. After that, I will be content and will just play with what I have. I will delete no games.[/QUOTE]

So let's say that PW64 comes out, and you don't have enough space for Earthbound. You wouldn't move a game over to an SD card or simply delete it, you'll just ignore a game you've wanted for literally years to prove your point?

You sir are a better man than me! ;)

RD
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']I'm well aware of economics of development. And if you looked, most of us aren't even suggesting a hard drive but rather allowing games/saves to be played/moved from the SD card. But let's seriously think about this.

It was revealed that 10 million VC games were sold to date this past February. Let's say each game was an average of $7, so that works out close to $70 million. If only 5% of the current wii console owners were to buy an additional game (let's say 25 million) due to additional storage, you would have around $8.75 million. Keep in mind, I'm not even considering potential WiiWare sales + price increase, and I'm giving what I consider very conservative numbers.

Do you really believe that the R&D for a firmware change is really going to make its way up to $8.75 million? There's probably quite a few (smaller) console games where development doesn't even run that high, and I imagine the man hours is likely to be much greater in those instances.[/quote] Costs for product development were in reference to a HARD DRIVE, not a firmware update. The issue seems to be fuzzy as to which will ultimately satisfy the hungry hardcore.


Spoons and forks are a tool used to feed fat people, so they obviously should be abolished.

All jokes aside, both the 360 and PS3 have hard drives and seem to be doing fairly well even with piracy in consideration. 45 million titles on XLA (Aug 2007). I couldn't find numbers for the PSN Store, so I don't know what to compare there. If Microsoft and Sony can do it, why can't Nintendo? I feel that Nintendo by "sitting on their hands" is missing out on even greater profits, and really leaving the Wii behind the times.
Click to expand...
See? Now we're back to harddrives again. MS and Sony already have integrated HDD in their systems. The point is moot. They also have at least 3 different SKU's for their product which is confusing for the simpletons that are the market for the Wii.

Holy heaven, Nintendo just announces a harddrive for the Wii for only $149 !! Yea !! A wii costs $249. Now it costs 249 +149 = $400 to get it with a harddrive. Gosh, I might as well buy a PS3 for that price, or a 360 and a few games - they already have harddrives built-in. Now the Wii looks underpowered AND overpriced, and only compatible with DLC games like Guitar Hero 5 and Rockband 2 IF YOU BUY THE HDD !! All the producers that clamored for storage and DLC to be available for the Wii will now start bitching that it should be integrated into the system and they won't make their games for the Wii unless Nintendo submits again.

And as far as piracy is concerned, we are talking about a company who stayed with the cartridge game format specifically to thwart piracy when CD ROM was the overwhelming new standard. That has to give you more insight into the type of control Nintendo will retain in the face of any overwhelming outcry. They don't like to be told what to do - by anyone - not the game makers, not the fans. Ninteendo leads, you follow, period.

They've already made their statement on how they are going to shape the industry with this generation of console and in their eyes, they're doing just fine - without a HDD, or SD loading, or whatever else the peanut gallery complains about.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']22, actually.


Convenience is also a factor. If I'm gonna need to buy something to resolve space issues, I'd rather buy something once and not have to worry about going out to the store to buy more SD cards.

But as I've also said before, unlocking saves is also a necessity. Otherwise, you really are forced to delete something you may not want to get rid of just to save space.

[/quote]

I see your point about the hard drive, but do you realize how big the SD cards are? I have a 1 gig SD card and have the check mii out channel, one 64 game, one tg cd game, 5 snes games, 4 nes, one genesis and one tg-16 game and I still have 6789 blocks left on the card (yes it is actually that number oddly). If you were to buy a 2 gig card thats about 14,000 blocks of space. Actually Amazon currently has 8 gig SD cards for pretty cheap like under $50 (which is around 56,000 blocks if I am correct). I don't think you can fill up 14,000 blocks of space really fast.

Either way they do need to unlock saves. It's pretty annoying when some games are starting to reach the 100+ block area for saves and I can't copy them.


They do need to allow loading from the SD card slot. I don't see why not since the SD card slot is essentially a big ass memory card and in theory a firmware upgrade away. Personally I myself have not bought a game since I got FF: CC. Mostly because there has been shit lately but also because I am not deleting games unless the game in question is that amazing (I even passed up Dr. Mario because I have no room). Also I been noticing that I usually play VC games in 15-20 minute increments at a time since they have the save anywhere feature (and I only have that much free time) and for me it is very inconvenient to spend 3-6 minutes transfering games because I only use the VC for such short times.

Sure this is only for the few who filled up their Wii's but it's more of a why not. It's like a collectors edition of a game. Not that many people will buy it (considering it is not as big as Halo), but it is still there for those few people who are die hard fans. Same goes for the VC, I mean sure the fanbase of the Wii is more towards casual gamers but there is still that hardcore fanbase. I mean I can almost say Nintendo is starting to become lazy and greedy fuckers for not allowing this. Also if there is an issue of piracy, there shouldn't be. The reason is if they code it right, there shouldn't be any new way to load games from the SD card, but the old ways will still be there for those few who want to do it. I don't see what the big problem is since it seems in THEORY so easy to do. Now I don't know the internals of the Wii, but hell why can't they do it? One cheap fix could potentially increase downloads for the few with filled Wiis and prevent future problems of storage.
 
Does anybody have a list of the games that have locked save files ?

I'm wondering if this is primarily showing up in newer release games. If it is, it could be being done to specifically eliminate things like the Zelda save exploits. And if that's the case, we may never be seeing direct SD loading of software.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Does anybody have a list of the games that have locked save files ?

I'm wondering if this is primarily showing up in newer release games. If it is, it could be being done to specifically eliminate things like the Zelda save exploits. And if that's the case, we may never be seeing direct SD loading of software.[/QUOTE]

i tried to start making a list of this once before... shortly after the system came out and it became clear that game saves could be locked. but at the time, nobody really cared because wiiware was not out yet and there were less vc games... but here's what i remember off the top of my head...

Super Smash Bros. Melee
Mario Kart Wii
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Endless Ocean
MLB Power Pros
Elebits
Metal Slug Anthology
Ghost Squad
TMNT
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Meet the Robinsons
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy
Mario Strikers Charged (online data)

and presumably every game that has online content.
 
WrestleCrap'sRD;4447966]So let's say that PW64 comes out said:
Well, I have about 200 blocks remaining. I deleted the Wii Opera channel and the Everybody vote channel to clear the space up for me. I will keep those blocks free until those games come out. As for deleting or moving games, I really am sticking with my decision and will not delete or move anything off my Wii that I have purchased. I know one person won't make a difference, but if other people are doing the same thing then that is really how change happens. Maybe Nintendo's VC sales will drop. I highly doubt over 50% of the people who buy wii's would actually be tech savvy enough to actually connect their systems to the internet. The VC is for gamers. And when the gamers run out of room, Nintendo will have to respond (assuming we all don't throw everything on multiple SD cards because we can't keep our credit cards in our pockets).
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='tayaf69']Well, I have about 200 blocks remaining. I deleted the Wii Opera channel and the Everybody vote channel to clear the space up for me. I will keep those blocks free until those games come out. As for deleting or moving games, I really am sticking with my decision and will not delete or move anything off my Wii that I have purchased. I know one person won't make a difference, but if other people are doing the same thing then that is really how change happens. Maybe Nintendo's VC sales will drop. I highly doubt over 50% of the people who buy wii's would actually be tech savvy enough to actually connect their systems to the internet. The VC is for gamers. And when the gamers run out of room, Nintendo will have to respond (assuming we all don't throw everything on multiple SD cards because we can't keep our credit cards in our pockets).[/QUOTE]

I applaud your dedication to your cause.

Would never do it myself, but hey, if you're willing to take a stand, maybe others will as well.

RD
 
[quote name='lilboo']Probably for new instruments for Guitar Hero or Rock Band or some OTHER accessory that we will only use once :bomb:[/quote]
I'll laugh if Nintendo releases their own USB keyboard for the Wii.
 
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