Wii U - General Discussion Thread

[Josh5890]

I think that Nintendo would do good to drop the basic, put the deluxe at $300 and offer an e-shop credit with purchase of the system.

 

[Cage017]

Been out of the Nintendo loop for a while, but I've been wanting the Deluxe Edition at $299 since Wii U was announced.

With the next gen of consoles $100-$200 higher than Wii U (It should not go lower than $299 IMO), this is the time for Nintendo to step up. I'm thinking Nintendo made the same mistake as Sony with the PS3 and released the console a year early. Tablets are finally becoming more of a common use and they could use that as a advantage over PS4's smaller touch screen.

Could you can still use Wii controllers on a Wii U? That along with backwards compatibility are going to push console sales.

If 3DS is going strong, why not incorportate it into the Wii U like GBA did with Gamecube and Vita is with PS4?

I don't know if the upcoming games are going to help ( I think I was the only one wildly marking out for Mega Man in the next Smash Bros.) but I'm keeping a close eye on this console race  [especially since I want to buy a Wii U].

 

[Corvin]

Yes you can still use Wiimotes/accessories with the WiiU.

 

[Blaster man]

My guess is that they will drop the Basic (haven't we seen evidence of this already?) and make the Deluxe $300. So that is sort of a $50 price drop although not really at this point since NintendoLand has been on sale cheap recently. I think $300 with a game included and a decent library (by the time the other systems launch that is) will position them somewhat decently against the PS4/One.

My 10 year-old son just discovered the Miiverse and has been messing around on that constantly for the last few days. This is where the ability to play off-screen is a huge plus. He can do that while the little kids watch something else.

I also started playing Tank Tank Tank with him and we are having a blast with that game. I don't get all the hate for it. It gets a little repetitive (what with having to clear all those medals before moving on) and you don't upgrade fast enough, but other than that it is a nice little game - definitely glad I didn't trade it in for $7 like most CAGs did when it was free at Best Buy. Actually, the only reason I have it at all is that a CAG was nice enough to send me a copy in exchange for my coupon (so he could get another one). The game was OOS around me the day the coupon went active.

I really do wonder if a $50 cut is enough. No games console has had this bad of a quarter since the Dreamcast and that's not hyperbole.

Of interest: Nintendo first predicted they would have 5.5 million Wii U sales by end of March 2013. Then they lowered their estimate to 4 million. They missed their lowered prediction. They're still nowhere near that number. Good thing they have the 3DS I guess.

 

[foltzie]

I really do wonder if a $50 cut is enough. No games console has had this bad of a quarter since the Dreamcast and that's not hyperbole.

Of interest: Nintendo first predicted they would have 5.5 million Wii U sales by end of March 2013. Then they lowered their estimate to 4 million. They missed their lowered prediction. They're still nowhere near that number. Good thing they have the 3DS I guess.

Curious if this is indicative of issues the XB1 and PS4 will have as well. I'm not convinced of that, though, as I believe Nintendo's largets competitor isnt another console, but rather the iPad.

 

[Blaster man]

Curious if this is indicative of issues the XB1 and PS4 will have as well. I'm not convinced of that, though, as I believe Nintendo's largets competitor isnt another console, but rather the iPad.

I don't think that the Xbox 1 or the PS4 will have these problems selling. There are many issues with the Wii U that have been detailed for a while now. If they really wanted a "tablet" they could have had 2 SKU's, one without the "tablet" and one with a Nexus 7. Then they could have had a Wii U app on iOS and Android and let people play with the tablets they already have or if they don't own one yet they could get a Nexus 7 which is an excellent tablet that sells for $200 and Nintendo could have got a bulk deal on. They could have then packed in the pro controller. The SKU's would have been $149.99 for a tabletless SKU and 349.99 for one that included the Nexus 7 and people would have a REAL tablet. I do think that a $150 console that uses your current tablet via an app would have sold like hotcakes and would probably still be sold out.

For reference, these numbers are in MILLIONS sold for the Jan-March quarter of this year. Yes, Apple really did sell 19,500,000 tablets iPads in 3 months. Just because Nintendo wants to make their own hardware doesn't mean that they can't make it interoperable with the things people already own. More people bought the iPad in 3 months than may end up buying a Wii U in it's entire life cycle.

Tablets are practically the definition of a disruptive technology. Not only are they destroying the Wii U's market, they're wiping out laptop sales and profits. Just a short few years ago it was damn near impossible to find a cheap laptop - you'd get a shitty netbook. Now for that same price you can get an entry level laptop that would have cost a good $800.

 

[RedvsBlue]

Curious if this is indicative of issues the XB1 and PS4 will have as well. I'm not convinced of that, though, as I believe Nintendo's largets competitor isnt another console, but rather the iPad.

I don't think we're gonna see sellouts on the XB1 and PS4, they might enjoy marginally more success than Wii U but they'll struggle for a few years at least. The biggest problem is price, average consumers are the ones who make or break a video game console's success and average consumers care about price first. Part of the success of Wii was the motion controls and the casual friendly appeal of it, but another part of it was the cheap launch price, especially in comparison to PS3's $500-600 launch price and the 360's $400 price at the time.

At this point in time, new consoles at $400-500 isn't going to appeal to the casual market particularly in light of the fact that all the big games (Call of Duty, Madden, Fifa) are coming out on the current gen as well. There isn't enough of a hook there to convince people they need to spend that money right now. You'll get the diehards of course, just like Nintendo got their diehard fanbase to come out, but you won't convince the casual 3-4 game a year buyer they need to upgrade at that price yet. The issue though is that we're getting to the point of diminished returns with consoles. We're left with basically just better graphics, yes I know there's more but from outward appearances those are minor additions(most gamers aren't going to care about streaming, kinect, lightbars, ps eye cameras, etc.). The current gen brought a lot more to the table: online, DLC, wireless standard controllers, blu ray (in the case of PS3), etc.

The economy just isn't in the same place it was in past console launches, people don't have the kind of disposable income they once did. It's turning around but for the time being people are being very skittish about big purchases, particularly when it's for purely entertainment purposes. Sure the iPad is selling well but people are buying those as hybrid entertainment/productivity devices.

Sony is trying to use a lower price to attract casuals and Microsoft is trying to use Kinect/TV features to attract casuals. I could be entirely wrong and they might have it pegged but personally I just don't feel like this will be enough to attract the casual buyers creating a Christmas-time fervor for these consoles.

 

[Blaster man]

I don't think we're gonna see sellouts on the XB1 and PS4, they might enjoy marginally more success than Wii U but they'll struggle for a few years at least. The biggest problem is price, average consumers are the ones who make or break a video game console's success and average consumers care about price first. Part of the success of Wii was the motion controls and the casual friendly appeal of it, but another part of it was the cheap launch price, especially in comparison to PS3's $500-600 launch price and the 360's $400 price at the time.

At this point in time, new consoles at $400-500 isn't going to appeal to the casual market particularly in light of the fact that all the big games (Call of Duty, Madden, Fifa) are coming out on the current gen as well. There isn't enough of a hook there to convince people they need to spend that money right now. You'll get the diehards of course, just like Nintendo got their diehard fanbase to come out, but you won't convince the casual 3-4 game a year buyer they need to upgrade at that price yet. The issue though is that we're getting to the point of diminished returns with consoles. We're left with basically just better graphics, yes I know there's more but from outward appearances those are minor additions(most gamers aren't going to care about streaming, kinect, lightbars, ps eye cameras, etc.). The current gen brought a lot more to the table: online, DLC, wireless standard controllers, blu ray (in the case of PS3), etc.

The economy just isn't in the same place it was in past console launches, people don't have the kind of disposable income they once did. It's turning around but for the time being people are being very skittish about big purchases, particularly when it's for purely entertainment purposes. Sure the iPad is selling well but people are buying those as hybrid entertainment/productivity devices.

Sony is trying to use a lower price to attract casuals and Microsoft is trying to use Kinect/TV features to attract casuals. I could be entirely wrong and they might have it pegged but personally I just don't feel like this will be enough to attract the casual buyers creating a Christmas-time fervor for these consoles.

I agree price is the biggest factor for the average consumer. Most people simply don't have that much disposable income on a toy. That said, the PS3 launched at 500/600 and it's lowest quarterly sales figures were roughly 500k so that's more than 3 times the sales the Wii U had last quarter and those 500k figures were considered bad for PS3! To say that X1/PS4 will have only marginally more success than the Wii U would basically mean that the entire console market has failed. The collapse of the market like that would spell the end of console gaming in the way we've been used for for decades.

 

[Richard Kain]

To say that X1/PS4 will have only marginally more success than the Wii U would basically mean that the entire console market has failed. The collapse of the market like that would spell the end of console gaming in the way we've been used for for decades.

This is a very real possibility. Also, console manufacturers are responsible for this situation. The extension of the current console cycle is part of the reason why the next one is going to have a challenge in taking off.

 

[007]

This is sort of an aside since people are talking about the XB1/PS4 launches... I'm genuinely curious to see how these work out in terms of actual numbers sold. The Wii U launch was interesting in the way that we kept hearing that pre-orders were enormous, sold out through March, whatever whatever. When launch hit, though, we discovered that, uh, there really wasn't a problem with obtaining one. We're hearing similar things about the pre-order numbers for the XB1 and PS4 now. You know, well beyond predecessors and all that.

Pre-orders have become a huge thing. I think REGULAR people have begun to realize the re-sell value for items like this which, combined with how much easier it is to pre-order now than it was seven years ago, creates this interesting scenario where a decent percentage of people pre-ordered for reasons other than wanting the console. It's not just resellers, either... show of hands, how many people here have BOTH the PS4 and the XB1 pre-ordered? I'm guilty of this, and I know damn well that I'm only getting one.

So, was the Wii U launch and massives amount of returns a fluke, or will we see something similar this fall? Sony has already claimed they'll have more than enough consoles this holiday, so... we'll see, I guess. Again, slightly off-topic, but it's something I'm curious to see play out.

 

[Blaster man]

This is sort of an aside since people are talking about the XB1/PS4 launches... I'm genuinely curious to see how these work out in terms of actual numbers sold. The Wii U launch was interesting in the way that we kept hearing that pre-orders were enormous, sold out through March, whatever whatever. When launch hit, though, we discovered that, uh, there really wasn't a problem with obtaining one. We're hearing similar things about the pre-order numbers for the XB1 and PS4 now. You know, well beyond predecessors and all that.

Pre-orders have become a huge thing. I think REGULAR people have begun to realize the re-sell value for items like this which, combined with how much easier it is to pre-order now than it was seven years ago, creates this interesting scenario where a decent percentage of people pre-ordered for reasons other than wanting the console. It's not just resellers, either... show of hands, how many people here have BOTH the PS4 and the XB1 pre-ordered? I'm guilty of this, and I know damn well that I'm only getting one.

So, was the Wii U launch and massives amount of returns a fluke, or will we see something similar this fall? Sony has already claimed they'll have more than enough consoles this holiday, so... we'll see, I guess. Again, slightly off-topic, but it's something I'm curious to see play out.

Evidently some of Nintendo's poor January sales were from lots of people returning the Wii U. As far as the Wii U launch went, no one at any of the stores near me was camping out for it and I went into TRU the day of the launch to buy something different and there were Wii U's available to buy, they hadn't sold out at 1PM. I knew the console was in trouble at that point. I simply couldn't believe that it wasn't sold out as soon as the store opened. Go into your local TRU or Best Buy when the others launch and see if there's any you can just walk in and buy.

 

[Deader2818]

All the stores around here were sold out on launch day but got more in the next few days.

All areas are different. Some people could walk in and get a Wii on launch but couldn't get a PS3 for awhile.

Where I lived (different than now) You couldnt find the Wii for a year+ but PS3 was ready available right at launch.

 

[theflicker]

All the stores around here were sold out on launch day but got more in the next few days.

All areas are different. Some people could walk in and get a Wii on launch but couldn't get a PS3 for awhile.

Where I lived (different than now) You couldnt find the Wii for a year+ but PS3 was ready available right at launch.

Stop with your reasonable approach. I'd rather hear more of Blaster man's bold statements about the future and his fascinating historical fiction where Nintendo ships a Wii U with a Nexus tablet inside.

 

[Blaster man]

Stop with your reasonable approach. I'd rather hear more of Blaster man's bold statements about the future and his fascinating historical fiction where Nintendo ships a Wii U with a Nexus tablet inside.

Yeah, it's not like all the anecdotal evidence discussed at launch turned out to be true...

 

[Deader2818]

how many more and different ways are you going to tell us you wont buy a will u till it drops $100?

 

[theflicker]

Yeah, it's not like all the anecdotal evidence discussed at launch turned out to be true...

I don't know what you're trying to say. The point is that anecdotal evidence is worthless.

 

[Blaster man]

how many more and different ways are you going to tell us you wont buy a will u till it drops $100?

At this point I may wait for it to drop $200. If the dismal sales keep up for another 18-24 months the product will probably be discontinued.

I don't know what you're trying to say. The point is that anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Go tell the Federal Reserve that their highly anticipated and market changing beige book is worthless.

 

[MetalSlugger]

Nintendo's failure to provide post-launch content has doomed the Wii U's first year more than anything. As soon as the games stopped being released the sales numbers dropped like a rock. I'm not saying that tablet+next gen competition don't also play a huge part, but the main reason no one will buy a U is the barren software library.

 

[Billytwoshoes]

So, was the Wii U launch and massives amount of returns a fluke, or will we see something similar this fall? Sony has already claimed they'll have more than enough consoles this holiday, so... we'll see, I guess. Again, slightly off-topic, but it's something I'm curious to see play out.

Agreed, as I've said before, this is all still too early to tell. The only legitimate complaint and concerns you can have at the moment is the lack of software support this year (which is fairly common anyways with new console launches), and if the "on the horizon" games don't interest you.

Nintendo came out with a pair of jacks in this hand, but even that can be a decent stance if the other holdings from Microsoft and Sony are equally as bad, which we won't know for sure until early 2014.

 

[theflicker]

Go tell the Federal Reserve that their highly anticipated and market changing beige book is worthless.

Yes, your observations in a Best Buy one day are the same as the Federal Reserve's report.

 

[Blaster man]

Yes, your observations in a Best Buy one day are the same as the Federal Reserve's report.

Alright I will try to explain this to you....
Convenience store owners all over the country reported 6 pack sales dropped a ton. That anecdotal evidence led the Fed to see that housing was in trouble long before anyone else knew because construction workers stopped buying beer.

MY personal anecdote doesn't provide evidence for anything, I agree with that. When you combine thousands of these reports all over the country with the fact that eBay prices were going at or below retail, it was obvious. Yes, you can indeed draw conclusions from this sort of thing.

 

[MetalSlugger]

eBay prices were at or below retail because you could still find them at stores, due to soft demand, due to a lack of compelling software. You won't sell a gaming console that only has two decent, exclusive games available.

 

[foltzie]

While Blaster certainly has a terse tone, nevertheless, he is right the current tea leaves do not bode well for Nintendo on the console front.  More importantly, his metaphor with the fed reserve is spot on in this situation. There were lines for the 360, Wii, and PS3 and almost none for the Wii U. While there were reports of pre-order sell outs, it was a stark sign that the Wii U launched without across the board sell outs short of Nintendo flooding the retail channel. These signs could have been wrong, but the sales forecast being over a million units off to date indicates significant issues.

Nintendo was a generation behind in having a platform that lends itself well to online FPS or sports games. Those fans are entrenched 360 and PS3 owners. In order to overcome that momentum Nintendo would have to have something considerably better to offer and while the Gamepad might offer some options, they did not lock down EA support for reasons that have been speculated at length.

There are many other issues that harmed the Wii U at the start such as not packing Nintendoland into the basic set, no Wii Remote, no Wii Sports, trickling out the VC updates, the region free issue, the hardware itself, the Gamepad adding ~$100 to the price, ect.

No matter the reason, the Wii U stumbled out of the block with casuals and hardcore fans, and it may recover, but Nintendo took some big steps with the 3DS to get it going well, and they have not, as of yet indicated that they have plans to enact a price cut or take some other drastic step.

I type all that as an individual who picked up a Wii U at launch and have already filled up two screens with digital content. I love the system, but it is a tough sell in abstract, albeit an easier sell if someone actually plays one of the asymmetric games, but a $350 sale?

Tough, very tough, though not impossible since I see a lot of kids playing on iPads that start at $399

 

[Blaster man]

I think Nintendo's best chance to salvage the Wii U at this point would be to use their massive pile of cash to invest in their business.  I mean, isn't that what business are supposed to do?  Invest in GAMES GAMES GAMES.  These numbers are not figures I know for sure, it's just wild guesses at the prices.  I know that MS locked in the DLC for GTA4 for 50 million.

1.  If I were running Nintendo I would have bought the Saint's Row franchise from bankrupt THQ.  It sold for something like 23 million dollars and will generate hundreds of millions!  - 25 million

2.  I would purchase Atlas and make the next Persona on Wii U only.  50 million

3.  I would pay for the next Bioshock or Infinite game to be on the Wii U as a timed exclusive and with all DLC for that platform only to be given away for free. - 80 to 100 million

4.  Pay for Namco to release a tales game on the platform - 10 million

5.  Pay for bungie to release an FPS on the platform - 50 million

6.  Pay for SE to release Final Fantasy 15 on the platform and give all DLC away to Wii U customers for free - 70 to 50 million

7.  Pay Bethesda to release the next Elder Scrolls game on the platform - 80 million

8.  Get COD on the platform - ? million

9.  Lower the price of the Wii U to $250 at the same time at least 2 big games launch.

10.  Hire more employees to pump out your games faster.  Nintendo has only 5,000 employees TOTAL and that includes engineers to design their consoles, execs, HR and other overhead staff, developers, artists, etc.  There's a reason why budgets became bloated in the HD era, it's because it had to happen to get the games out.

Honestly, if they just cut the price of the console, hired more staff, and bought as many studios as they could to get non traditional exclusives on the platform they'd be able to sell this thing.  I don't think re-releaseing Wind Waker is going to do it.

Again, I'm talking largely out of my ass on these costs.  I don't know what it would cost but I do know that Nintendo has over 10 BILLION dollars and spending a few hundred million or even 1 billion to get this platform not just off the ground but POPULAR is something that most companies do.  They wouldn't just sit and let a product fail.  They'd either abandon it or make damn well sure it succeeds.

Of course this is all back seat driving and I have no clue if it would help them.  Another option would be to pay folks that already own a Wii U a couple hundred bucks and launch a newer console.  At least they'd be able to have good will from the small number of people that bought it and have a new console and a fresh start.

 

[io]

I think we can all agree that it probably should have launched as one SKU with NintendoLand at $300.  That would have put them in a much better position now (as they could then go to $250 this Fall and be considerably cheaper than the PS4/One).  But still the drought of software would have hindered them either way. 

I don't get the argument of including a tablet.  No tablet is going to provide the type of games the Wii U is capable of.  And if all it did was provide tablet-quality games, then why would people buy that over an iPad or alternative?  That would have been an epic disaster, while the current situation is merely very bad .  In any case, I don't see them competing with the iPad any more than Sony/MS are.  The tablet is just an add-on to the standard controller.

The great thing about the Wii U and the tablet is the ability to do local multiplayer with 2 people with each getting full-screen views.  This is an awesome feature that actually makes me want to play it more - only problem being there aren't enough games for it.  But Tank Tank Tank was much more fun with my son because of that.  I hear the Sonic racing game is like that and I can only assume Mario Kart will be as well.

As for the newer systems, I have no doubt they will sell better than the Wii U, but I don't think they will be breaking records either.  What is even more unheard of than the Wii U not selling out day 1 (although like others I saw that it was around me - took several days for it to show back up again) is that these new systems have been available for preorder for so long and launch day systems are still available.  I jumped on my PS4/One preorders day 1 assuming like last gen they would be sold out within 24 hours.  Wow, how that has turned out to be wrong.  I'm sure they are producing a better supply this time vs. last gen, but still...  The people who are going to be really disappointed are those trying to sell them at launch on eBay.  I think that will be a huge flop.  And thus we will see a lot of returns on these systems and a decent supply in stores leading up to the holidays.

 

[Deader2818]

Really, all this gloom and doom stuff is really premature. Nothing has changed form now and a few months ago. After this holiday season when they have releases a lot of exclusive games and they are STILL not selling, THEN there is a problem.

 

[RedvsBlue]

Stop with your reasonable approach. I'd rather hear more of Blaster man's bold statements about the future and his fascinating historical fiction where Nintendo ships a Wii U with a Nexus tablet inside.

I'd suggest putting blaster on ignore and be done with it. I put him on ignore a long time ago when every post he made in every thread talked about how shitty the wii u is but he plans on gettingone as soon as they drop the price, come out with more games, hand wash his ballsack, etc. I see he keeps posting in this thread so I can imagine his tune hasn't changed much, unless he actually bought one, which I highly doubt.

 

[RedvsBlue]

Really, all this gloom and doom stuff is really premature. Nothing has changed form now and a few months ago. After this holiday season when they have releases a lot of exclusive games and they are STILL not selling, THEN there is a problem.

I think people really underestimate where the video game market is these days, we've seen some major publishers drop out lately and other stalwarts floundering. Every publisher is getting super timid these days because unless you're the next call of duty you aren't making enough profit. Look at Tomb Raider, that game sold very well but despite that it still wasn't good enough for Square Enix. The problem is that most publishers don't have a backup plan to help them take chances anymore. That's why you aren't seeing 3rd party support for wii u, because these publishers are hemorrhaging money and they can't afford to take risks on new platforms.

Look at vita and 3ds too, yeah the 3ds is turning around but there still isn't anything approaching significant 3rd party support. They'd rather fart out some ios/android free to play game because they make so much more money these days versus the cost investment.

 

[Blaster man]

I think people really underestimate where the video game market is these days, we've seen some major publishers drop out lately and other stalwarts floundering. Every publisher is getting super timid these days because unless you're the next call of duty you aren't making enough profit. Look at Tomb Raider, that game sold very well but despite that it still wasn't good enough for Square Enix. The problem is that most publishers don't have a backup plan to help them take chances anymore. That's why you aren't seeing 3rd party support for wii u, because these publishers are hemorrhaging money and they can't afford to take risks on new platforms.
Look at vita and 3ds too, yeah the 3ds is turning around but there still isn't anything approaching significant 3rd party support. They'd rather fart out some ios/android free to play game because they make so much more money these days versus the cost investment.

This is why Ubi said they weren't interested in making any games that can't be used as a series. I'm a little concerned that watch dogs will be annualized like Assassins Creed.

http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-won-t-start-an-ip-if-it-can-t-become-a-franchise-258128.phtml

 

[moothemagiccow]

I think people really underestimate where the video game market is these days, we've seen some major publishers drop out lately and other stalwarts floundering. Every publisher is getting super timid these days because unless you're the next call of duty you aren't making enough profit. Look at Tomb Raider, that game sold very well but despite that it still wasn't good enough for Square Enix. The problem is that most publishers don't have a backup plan to help them take chances anymore. That's why you aren't seeing 3rd party support for wii u, because these publishers are hemorrhaging money and they can't afford to take risks on new platforms.

Look at vita and 3ds too, yeah the 3ds is turning around but there still isn't anything approaching significant 3rd party support. They'd rather fart out some ios/android free to play game because they make so much more money these days versus the cost investment.

The problem is big names blow millions on making AAAAAAAAA games that aren't actually fun, so they don't turn a profit. The same thing is happening with "tentpole" summer movies. Most people aren't dumb enough to pick up a bad game, or sit through a bad movie in the information age.

And Call of Duty isn't immune. People aren't buying because it's annualized, they're buying because the game has been diversified. Zombies? Aliens? Horses? Compared to the original, blops 2 is unrecognizable.

 

[Blaster man]

The problem is big names blow millions on making AAAAAAAAA games that aren't actually fun, so they don't turn a profit. The same thing is happening with "tentpole" summer movies. Most people aren't dumb enough to pick up a bad game, or sit through a bad movie in the information age.

And Call of Duty isn't immune. People aren't buying because it's annualized, they're buying because the game has been diversified. Zombies? Aliens? Horses? Compared to the original, blops 2 is unrecognizable.

The point made in the Ubi article I posted is that AAA games are the only things that sell enough to have a chance of breaking even and that's the problem Nintendo is starting to run into. They didn't understand the amount of staffing they needed to get games out the door on time.

 

[FriskyTanuki]

I think people really underestimate where the video game market is these days, we've seen some major publishers drop out lately and other stalwarts floundering. Every publisher is getting super timid these days because unless you're the next call of duty you aren't making enough profit. Look at Tomb Raider, that game sold very well but despite that it still wasn't good enough for Square Enix. The problem is that most publishers don't have a backup plan to help them take chances anymore. That's why you aren't seeing 3rd party support for wii u, because these publishers are hemorrhaging money and they can't afford to take risks on new platforms.

Look at vita and 3ds too, yeah the 3ds is turning around but there still isn't anything approaching significant 3rd party support. They'd rather fart out some ios/android free to play game because they make so much more money these days versus the cost investment.

The Tomb Raider thing is this recent trend where publishers just throw a ton of money at a new game to try to force it into the top-tier of sales even if it's the sort of game that doesn't fit that mold, which leads to games like Tomb Raider having such absurdly high expectations that having the best launch in the series' history is somehow a failure. EA's also guilty of that with Battlefield, Dead Space 3, and Medal of Honor, which has only resulted in positive results for Battlefield due to positioning it as a Call of Duty competitor. It's not a sign of the market being doomed, but foolish notions by the publisher that more money solves all of their problems rather than cutting back on the budget so that those games can be reasonably made for the type of sales numbers that it'll get. EA and Square Enix are feeling the sting of those decisions now and are mostly cutting back in response.

 

[RedvsBlue]

The Tomb Raider thing is this recent trend where publishers just throw a ton of money at a new game to try to force it into the top-tier of sales even if it's the sort of game that doesn't fit that mold, which leads to games like Tomb Raider having such absurdly high expectations that having the best launch in the series' history is somehow a failure. EA's also guilty of that with Battlefield, Dead Space 3, and Medal of Honor, which has only resulted in positive results for Battlefield due to positioning it as a Call of Duty competitor. It's not a sign of the market being doomed, but foolish notions by the publisher that more money solves all of their problems rather than cutting back on the budget so that those games can be reasonably made for the type of sales numbers that it'll get. EA and Square Enix are feeling the sting of those decisions now and are mostly cutting back in response.

I don't think it's all that recent. You go through EA pretty extensively and they're probably the biggest offenders of chasing money that isn't there. We all know UDraw is the major reason for THQ's failure but they also got to a point with trying to save the whole company with Darksiders 2. Then there's 2k who has chased it with both Darkness 2 and (even more so) Spec Ops. Disney has almost altogether pulled out of video games (save the upcoming Disney Infinity). Sega has scaled back its releases significantly. With Assassin's Creed on the seeming decline, Ubisoft has to be betting big that Watchdogs will be their next major franchise.

 

[moothemagiccow]

The point made in the Ubi article I posted is that AAA games are the only things that sell enough to have a chance of breaking even and that's the problem Nintendo is starting to run into. They didn't understand the amount of staffing they needed to get games out the door on time.

Of course, cheaper games never make money. No one's ever invested a million dollars on something and gotten half back. As for Nintendo's staffing, they've got fewer employees than Ubisoft. They've never understood staffing, except when the Wii made them the most profitable company per capita.

Speaking of money, shouldn't you be losing some on the stock market right now?

 

[Blaster man]

Of course, cheaper games never make money. No one's ever invested a million dollars on something and gotten half back. As for Nintendo's staffing, they've got fewer employees than Ubisoft. They've never understood staffing, except when the Wii made them the most profitable company per capita.

Speaking of money, shouldn't you be losing some on the stock market right now?

Of course people make money if they can make a game for a million dollars. Unfortunately that's not easy to do in the HD era. If you're more capable at doing this then maybe you can work for these guys and make a fortune. Usually the people that make games by themselves or with one or two other people don't get paid until the game sells. They're gambling and hoping it pays off.

You sure are interested in my stock picks huh? Well I bought a bunch of EA stock at $13 and I picked up some Apple stock at 425 so I'm doing alright. Thanks for asking! Tim Cook recently talked to the head of China Mobile which has 700 million users. If they can get the iPhone on that carrier then that's going to rocket the stock to the moon. It should get back to 600 easily at that point.

 

[moothemagiccow]

Because there's nothing at all in between Super Meat Boy and Call of Duty

 

[TimboSliceGB]

wii u keeps going down now even more stores are going to stop selling wii u what has nintendo done to their home system brand. Really really sucks what has happen to wii u.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Really, all this gloom and doom stuff is really premature. Nothing has changed form now and a few months ago. After this holiday season when they have releases a lot of exclusive games and they are STILL not selling, THEN there is a problem.

wii u line up for late 2013 is not that impressive to over haul system selling issues

 

[Deader2818]

I guess we will find out after the holidays then?

Maybe they wont sell like crazy, but with their holiday line up, it will pick up. Can't see it still not selling when they will put out games alot of people will want.

 

[Blaster man]

I guess we will find out after the holidays then?

Maybe they wont sell like crazy, but with their holiday line up, it will pick up. Can't see it still not selling when they will put out games alot of people will want.

I'm sure it will pick up around the holidays, that's only natural. The question is, how much will it pick up and how many sales would be considered a success at this point? Would 1 million during the holidays be a huge success? 500k? What?

 

[Richard Kain]

I'm sure it will pick up around the holidays, that's only natural. The question is, how much will it pick up and how many sales would be considered a success at this point? Would 1 million during the holidays be a huge success? 500k? What?

It's difficult to say at this point. Not selling Wii U's isn't actually hurting Nintendo right now. The hardware is still being sold at a loss, and they haven't pushed their first-party development yet, so they aren't missing out on too many software sales. They could go for another year with soft sales on the Wii U and not have too much to worry about.

The danger at the moment is mindshare and market perception. They need to avoid having everyone write the Wii U off before it has a chance to really flourish. That's the major issue they're struggling with on the third-party developer front. Consumers will be a much easier sell. When Mario Kart U comes out, there will be a number of consumers who will buy a Wii U just for that. Everyone knows where they have to go to get their Nintendo fix. Get the right titles out and a given number of consumers will show up. But the third-party development will be a much harder proposition without an established install base.

Once the production costs reduce enough for Nintendo to sell the Wii U at a profit, they will probably start pushing the marketing. For now, it seems that they are riding the lull between generations. If the PS4 and XBox One come out really strong in the first half of 2014, it will put a lot more pressure on Nintendo. If neither of the next-gen competitors blow up, Nintendo will have more breathing room next year.

 

[GBAstar]

Really, all this gloom and doom stuff is really premature. Nothing has changed form now and a few months ago. After this holiday season when they have releases a lot of exclusive games and they are STILL not selling, THEN there is a problem.

I would say we're nearing doom and gloom when over the last sales period the WIi outsold the Wii U.

 

[io]

I wonder if the (very cheap) existence of the Wii isn't part of the problem.  MS and Sony will have the same problem as well (that is cheaper versions of their new console readily available with a huge library of cheap games competing with the next gen release).

I mean, the Skylanders Giants Wii bundle was available for as low as $100 just recently and that is a hell of a deal for someone looking for a new console.  At that price differential they might not even take a second look at the Wii U.  I seem to remember Nintendo ditching the Gamecube hardware pretty quickly when the Wii launched.  They might want to do the same now.  Unlike MS and Sony, they can afford to do that since the new hardware is backwards compatible so they can both continue to push Wii software while also encourage upgrading (instead of having people pick up cheap $100 replacements).

Personally, I think this aspect (BC) is vastly underappreciated.  For a family in need of a new console, they can get a Wii U for $300 that does everything the Wii does plus much, much more.  The Wii could then be sold/given away or used in a kids room or something.  And all the games will still work on either system plus they can get a handful of new experiences on the Wii U.  I know they sent out that one message to Wii owners via the system about upgrading.  But they need to push it way more in their marketing.  The Wii U being BC was probably the biggest reason I bought one at launch as I knew I could transfer all my digital stuff and get rid of my aging launch-day Wii system. (Though I have not done so - my plan was to eBay it instead of getting a pittance for it at GS since it is a Gamecube-compatible model.  At the time the Wii U came out those could get $75-$100 but I'm afraid to look now )

 

[TimboSliceGB]

wii u has couple isssues, 1. the name should have never had Wii in it. 2. the cheaper price of wii. 3. i think some people see the name and wii u and thnk oh it's just a updated version of wii heck at work we get alot of people bringing back wii u games thinking their kids could play it on the org wii.

 

[io]

Tell me about it.  I've been trying to sell an extra game I picked up from the Blockbuster sale and so far I've had to cancel 3 sales in a row over the name confusion. I message them before shipping to make sure they want it for the Wii U and all 3 times the buyers didn't realize it isn't for the original Wii (though they do seem to be aware that there is a new system at least).  This is despite a picture showing the game and disc, and text in my auction stating that it is not compatible with the original Wii.  Clearly some of the fault here lies with Nintendo's name choice and subsequent marketing though the majority of the blame goes to the buyers for being stereotypical idiotic eBay users .

 

[pitfallharry219]

Target isn't helping to clear up any confusion:

 

[io]

That reminds me I haven't heard anything from Amazon about my Pikmin 3 order.  I guess there's little chance I'm getting it before Monday.  I did get the Skylanders Giants pack on a Saturday from them when it released on a Sunday so we were able to play that before street date.  But of course with a game I really, really, would like to play early that won't happen...

Edit: What the hell Amazon!?  It says delivery is expected Wednesday.  And I have Prime too - I almost always get new games on release day.   I may have to pick up and open that Gamestop preorder I put in a long time ago and then return the Amazon copy to GS when I get it...

 

[DNukem170]

I would say we're nearing doom and gloom when over the last sales period the WIi outsold the Wii U.

Considering Nintendo probably makes more money over Pokemon toothbrushes in Japan than they do video games worldwide, I don't think there is much doom and gloom at NOJ.

 

[Billytwoshoes]

Target isn't helping to clear up any confusion:

Yeah, the Wii console + Wii U tablet is pretty bad, I guess 9 months isn't enough time to get some updated images in the ad department.

 

[io]

Oh, crap, I didn't even notice that.  I thought it was bad enough they were showing the Wii Skylanders Giants bundle so close to Pikmin 3 :lol:.  I guess part of that is because my original Wii was white and my Wii U black so I just saw that as a Wii U system under the tablet controller.