Will Food Become a More Valuable Commodity then Oil?

The US is the best place to be during a food shortage.

1. We can pay the most for food if we need to import.

2. We have plenty of unused land that can be converted to agriculture.
 
[quote name='62t']considering the % of the world's population dont even have access to clean water...[/QUOTE]

Ummm, yeah. If the op thinks wars haven't already been fought over food and water then think again.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Ummm, yeah. If the op thinks wars haven't already been fought over food and water then think again.[/quote]

I never thought that.

I am talking about in the United States.
 
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but nothing going on economically right now in the world is not planned, especially in America. This is all being carefully orchestrated with an end goal that is up for speculation.

Food is the most powerful weapon in the world. Ever since the times of Sumeria, government has figured out that if they can convince people to depend on them for feeding their families, they have ultimate control. It works basically the same now, except instead of priests running the food granaries, the priests are now international banks/Federal Reserve. But the end result is the same.

I've also long believed that the loss of the common knowledge everyone use to have of growing things and agricultural arts the past 3 generations is ultimately going to cause a lot of suffering.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
I've also long believed that the loss of the common knowledge everyone use to have of growing things and agricultural arts the past 3 generations is ultimately going to cause a lot of suffering.[/quote]

If the ground is too poor to grow food or there is a drought, raise livestock such as cattle, pigs or chickens.

If the ground is in decent shape and you have access to enough water, read the package on the seeds for proper care instructions.

Farming just isn't that hard. The stupidest people have been growing food for the last 6,000 years.

Even if everybody had to start growing their own food tomorrow, most people would survive.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']
Even if everybody had to start growing their own food tomorrow, most people would survive.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. If there were mass food shortages at grocery stores, or suddenly food prices skyrocketed, for a long period of time, especially if there was little or no power, many people that have lived in big cities their whole lives and survive off mcdonalds and starbucks would panic.

It's not as easy as you describe to grow enough for a family to have food year round. There is much more to it than reading instructions on seed packets, not to mention the hope that you have enough food storage to last you until your crops are ready.

There is another variation to the OP. What about the massive denutritionalizing of foods? You really don't have to take people's food away from them if you want to starve them to death. Just give them nothing but crap they can afford to eat, and it's almost the same.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I disagree. If there were mass food shortages at grocery stores, or suddenly food prices skyrocketed, for a long period of time, especially if there was little or no power, many people that have lived in big cities their whole lives and survive off mcdonalds and starbucks would panic.

It's not as easy as you describe to grow enough for a family to have food year round. There is much more to it than reading instructions on seed packets, not to mention the hope that you have enough food storage to last you until your crops are ready.

There is another variation to the OP. What about the massive denutritionalizing of foods? You really don't have to take people's food away from them if you want to starve them to death. Just give them nothing but crap they can afford to eat, and it's almost the same.[/quote]

I will concede that a person with no survival skills other than how to "supersize it" would be at a disadvantage in any situation outside the modern pampered US lifestyle. I don't know a polite way to mention the people affected by hurricane Katrina here, but they're apt.

For a person who has been camping for at least a few hours or visited someplace without cable, I believe that person can gain enough knowledge to be self sufficient in a matter of months.

Having year round reserves of food isn't as simple as water and walk away, but it isn't hard either.

If one has access to a few thousand square feet of decent soil and adequate water, that area will produce vegetables within 120 days. There will be leftovers that can be canned and will last for a few years. One won't gain weight, but health won't deteriorate either.

If one has access to an acre of decent land, one can grow grains that can keep a family stocked in bread every day. If the grain is kept dry and away from vermin and fungus, it won't rot for years. Sealing it in a vacuum puts it at MRE levels. At this point, one can gain weight, but all of the sandwiches are meatless.

If one has access to a second acre of decent land, the grain from it can feed chickens year round. Now, one has eggs at every meal and plenty of nitrogen rich shit to replenish the several acres of soil.

Another couple of acres allows for a lot of fun by raising cattle. Now, one can have steak and hamburger at many meals, but there'll need to be fences to keep dinner on the property.

...

If there was a prolonged major food shortage, there would be some pain in adjusting to an agrarian lifestyle. However, the only deaths would be those too old, infirm or stubborn to accept the new reality. Everybody else would lose some weight during the adjustment and bitch about how much better the old days of dieting and working were.

...

Regarding the lack of nutrition in foods, there are always vitamins. They're almost as cheap as Ramen Noodles.
 
[quote name='Y2J850']At what point do we get to become cannibals? On the plus side America is full of fatties to choose from.[/quote]

But it would be all gristle!!! Boo fatties!!!!
 
[quote name='Y2J850']At what point do we get to become cannibals? On the plus side America is full of fatties to choose from.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but who wants fatty meat? I prefer a leaner cut myself!
 
Food is already a more valuable (and wasted) commodity than oil.

How much more do people pay for bottled water over tap? How much more do people spend on $3-$5 on a cup of coffee every day than they do on a $40-50 gallon of gas every two weeks?

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='HotShotX']Food is already a more valuable (and wasted) commodity than oil.

How much more do people pay for bottled water over tap? How much more do people spend on $3-$5 on a cup of coffee every day than they do on a $40-50 gallon of gas every two weeks?

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

spending a lot of money on bottled water and starbucks has nothing to do with food.


that said, at this point im not worried about any food shortages despite the media coverage its getting.

although, im with thrustbucket on the conspiracy thing... kind of. i just find it very, suspicious that so many necessities are rising in price after years of being stagnant as the dollar falls.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Where's your Messiah now, half the world?[/quote]

It takes weeks to starve to death and only 2 seconds to insert a clip into an AK-47. It'll work out.
 
sooo...putting the mesiah bashing aside in a thread on food shortages... There's an article on MSN today about Sam's and Costco having to limit the amount of rice people are buying. Because of rising food prices, restaurant owners are going in and buying in bulk afraid of how much higher it will go. Of course, if the price of oil continues to go up, then there's no doubt that food prices will go up. After all, to get the rice from the farmer to the market takes gas and oil which is more expensive right now.

Oh, another quick note. I don't know if anyone watched Bill Maher last week but he had on an African refugee who's been living in the US and published a book. They started talking about food prices and how people are buying less food since there may be a "food shortage" in the US. She put things into perspective by saying the food shortage here is nothing compared to the food shortages in other parts of the world where digging for food out of random trash cans is a normal occurrence. And it's true. The homeless here can find shelter and food at soup kitchens and hostiles for them but in other countries, you sleep in the wild and you search for food until you find it whether it be in a trash can, or a carcass in the field that you can fire up.

Anyway, all I am getting at is that we are no where close to having a food shortage like the rest of the world nor are we close to being like the people of the Depression Era who bought large cans of food and hid them away in different parts of their homes. Prices may have gone up, but it just means we have to crunch our numbers and decide whether or not food is more valuable than another game, another purse, or another cellphone.
 
[quote name='boo']
Anyway, all I am getting at is that we are no where close to having a food shortage like the rest of the world nor are we close to being like the people of the Depression Era who bought large cans of food and hid them away in different parts of their homes. Prices may have gone up, but it just means we have to crunch our numbers and decide whether or not food is more valuable than another game, another purse, or another cellphone.[/QUOTE]

I've always believed anyone that does not maintain a stockpile of food storage is asking for it.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I've always believed anyone that does not maintain a stockpile of food storage is asking for it.[/quote]

I keep trying to explain that to my wife every time I stuff the freezer and cabinets.
 
Well, unless the food is fresh produce that goes bad, there's no reason not to have a good amount of food on hand. Besides, it means less trips to the grocery store which I used to love but damn, they can get really overrun.

I actually have an aunt that keeps no food on hand except for maybe a thing of oreos or 12 pack of drinks. So literally every day she goes to the grocery store to buy "fresh" food to cook for dinner or breakfast. I think that's crazy! You aren't even guaranteed freshness just because you bought it from the grocery store because depending on which stop it is on the delivery drivers route, you could be getting produce and meat 2-3 days later than other grocery stores. And since she lives in a small town, that puts her "freshness" even further out. Oh well.
 
[quote name='boo']Well, unless the food is fresh produce that goes bad, there's no reason not to have a good amount of food on hand. Besides, it means less trips to the grocery store which I used to love but damn, they can get really overrun.

I actually have an aunt that keeps no food on hand except for maybe a thing of oreos or 12 pack of drinks. So literally every day she goes to the grocery store to buy "fresh" food to cook for dinner or breakfast. I think that's crazy! You aren't even guaranteed freshness just because you bought it from the grocery store because depending on which stop it is on the delivery drivers route, you could be getting produce and meat 2-3 days later than other grocery stores. And since she lives in a small town, that puts her "freshness" even further out. Oh well.[/quote]

Good to know people like that are out there.

All I have to do during a famine is barricade for three weeks. Then, I can buy another house on the cheap.
 
Modern agriculture is the process of converting petroleum energy into human-edible energy. As oil increases in value, so will food.

I think the rice shortages have more to do with low agricultural investments than anything. Maybe SE and Central Asia will reinvest in their agricultural sectors.

I'm more worried about fresh water supplies. Without it, you can't grow shit, even if you have all the oil in the world.
 
Our current food production is only possible with oil. Without the machines and oil-based fertilizers, it is estimated that the earth could only feed a little under 2 billion people. Modern farmland is just a big sponge for fertilizers. Without them, growing enough food for most of the 7 billion people would be impossible.
 
Or what about the wheat that has been pushed aside to grow the corn and soy for the new ethanol fuesls... that actually cause a ton of air pollutants to manufacture..

The wheat is jumping through the roof and with our open door type policy to foreign countries and our week dollar we sold and sold the wheat last year. We will pay for that coming up, and if more farmers convert to Corn and Soy Wheat will go through the roof... ever to to eat something without wheat.... its surprising how much food wheat makes its way into.

*edit
As a matter of fact there is an article up on this very subject on MSN today:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24361263
 
[quote name='Zing']Our current food production is only possible with oil. Without the machines and oil-based fertilizers, it is estimated that the earth could only feed a little under 2 billion people. Modern farmland is just a big sponge for fertilizers. Without them, growing enough food for most of the 7 billion people would be impossible.[/quote]

You are right.

Our current food production model is monoculture.

Grow the same crop year after year.

To acheive the same results, you need oil as pesticide and fertilizer.

...

However, our food production model can become polyculture.

Grow different crops season after season or set aside fallow land.

Use "green manure" to reduce pest problems and to restore nutrients to the soil.

Also, more land could be used to grow food instead of lawns for gas-powered lawnmowers.

Then, everybody is fed without oil.
 
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