Wombat to the Rescue!

W

waco2austin

CAG Veteran
Ok, one last thing about the Resident Evil 5 "white man killing black people thing" before we "kill the subject". I hate to say it, but I'm not really surprised at the response from Cheapy D on the subject when he brings up Africans killing other Africans as a "out" for Resident Evil to be portraying it in a video game. And I most definitely won't go into the underlying issues linked to the African genocide being committed in that country due to outside influence. I do know that, from reading other forums, it seems the majority of white people couldn't care less about the portrayal, and are highly defensive of the game, but please understand why this is a sensitive issue. Throughout history we [Blacks, African-Americans] have had to deal with racism to some degree pretty much everyday of our lives.

Now with you guys being Jewish I'm certain you've dealt with your share of racism in one form or another as well, but at least you're less prone to it due to the fact that few people can just look at you and say "hey, look at that Jew". But with Blacks, as well as Hispanics, Asians, Native-Americans, etc., this is something we have to deal with 24/7, especially in America, where the big melting pot of cultures only stands to intensify some people's racial intolerance. It's like with Jews being forced to display the "Star of David" on your chest everywhere you go during the Holocaust and being judged by that symbol before anyone else has even had the chance to interact with you. Wouldn't that suck Cheapy? Now please don't think that I'm comparing the Holocaust with Resident Evil 5 in any way, shape, or form because I most definitely am not. But we too have had our own "Holocaust" of sorts that I'm certain you're aware of. Now from reading previous posts, most people will say that "No one had a problem when all the zombies getting killed were white people!". Now that's true to an extent. But if you looked back on all the past Resident Evil games and replaced Rebecca, or Chris Redfield, with a Black person [or say like a Native American, Middle-Eastern, or even a Hispanic person] doing the exact same thing, do you think it would have been as popular or sold nearly as many copies? And be honest with yourself......I think not.

And I really appreciated the enlightenment that Wombat was able to bring to the topic. Although my agreement with Wombat on most subjects generally range in the 50/50 area, and although it didn't quite sound like he won Cheapy over, at least it makes me feel good that there are some people out there, people who aren't Black, that at least have a shred of understanding about the crap that non-Whites in America have had to go through most of their lives. Cheapy, you seem like a really smart, cool guy who occasionally has the potential to come outta left field and be totally clueless (let's not talk about the whole blackface thing you did a few months back) and I'm really starting to appreciate the alternate views that Wombat brings to the show. I don't know if you pay this guy or not for what he does, but if not, then you should, and if you already give him a salary, then pay him more. Especially now that his wife is making so much more money than he is. Thanks for your time and understanding guys. Still love the show.
 
dude its japanese people making a game, i don't see you complaining there aren't any japanese main characters. This would be a different story if it was made in America, but its not.


ohh and in some cases you can tell someone is jewish by looking at them.
 
I didn't post this to create any type of flame-war, I only wanted to give my feelings towards the situation and hope that everyone can at least take the time to read and understand, even if you disagree.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']dude its japanese people making a game, i don't see you complaining there aren't any japanese main characters. This would be a different story if it was made in America, but its not.

[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair, the general public isn't going to know it is a Japanese game. I have to admit, before I heard one word from anyone on this subject, I was a bit, uh, uncomfortable, watching the trailer for RE5. It was almost subconscious at first until I realized why I felt that way. I've never played an RE game and yet I know they are zombies and thus it is "different". But whether people know that or not, it does have a strange feeling to it, at least to me. Now if the final game has sympathetic non-zombie Africans in it (that you protect, or help you, or even that you play as for portions) then I think any criticism would be muted. Hopefully there are some of those elements in the final game - especially the playable character option (even if just for a mission or two).

Anyway, OP, I know exactly where you are coming from, and I'm as white as can be ;). I, too, thought Cheapy's comment about Africans killing each other was completely irrelevant in this discussion. It is one thing to dismiss the criticism of the game as overly-sensitive but I would approach it more as I mentioned - let's wait and see what the actual game is like and not get too upset over a 3 minute trailer.
 
[quote name='io']Well, to be fair, the general public isn't going to know it is a Japanese game. I have to admit, before I heard one word from anyone on this subject, I was a bit, uh, uncomfortable, watching the trailer for RE5. It was almost subconscious at first until I realized why I felt that way. I've never played an RE game and yet I know they are zombies and thus it is "different". But whether people know that or not, it does have a strange feeling to it, at least to me. Now if the final game has sympathetic non-zombie Africans in it (that you protect, or help you, or even that you play as for portions) then I think any criticism would be muted. Hopefully there are some of those elements in the final game - especially the playable character option (even if just for a mission or two).

Anyway, OP, I know exactly where you are coming from, and I'm as white as can be ;). I, too, thought Cheapy's comment about Africans killing each other was completely irrelevant in this discussion. It is one thing to dismiss the criticism of the game as overly-sensitive but I would approach it more as I mentioned - let's wait and see what the actual game is like and not get too upset over a 3 minute trailer.[/QUOTE]

White guilt.
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']White guilt.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, though my family is all European peasant immigrant stock that came over here in the 1910's-1920's :lol:.
 
[quote name='io']Perhaps, though my family is all European peasant immigrant stock that came over here in the 1910's-1920's :lol:.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya, it's just strange in general how a person (not only you) could kill hundreds of white people and Arab people in video games and not bat an eyelash, but one lone game has you killing Africans and we feel remorse.
 
who gives a shit the gameplay better be spot on..
no one said shit when guild Wars had the Paragons(spear chuckers) added in Nightfall...grow up...
your the reason why racism exists because you want to pull the race card everytime you get hurt;
but in reality cracker is accepted and the'n-word' isn't, who the fuck is in the wrong here...??
if you cant get past that someone may be different then you then you need to grow up..whether its color,accent,blonde, blue eyes, bigger smaller, taller shorter..how about all those alien games, how the fuck do u think they feel...?
 
[quote name='waco2austin'] But if you looked back on all the past Resident Evil games and replaced Rebecca, or Chris Redfield, with a Black person [or say like a Native American, Middle-Eastern, or even a Hispanic person] doing the exact same thing, do you think it would have been as popular or sold nearly as many copies? [/QUOTE]

I disagree. Ever heard of the film "Night of the Living Dead"?
 
[quote name='waco2austin']I'm not totally familiar with that movie Night of the Living Dead. Describe the events for me please.[/QUOTE]

Horde of white zombies attacks a farm house. The only survivor from the house at the end of the film is Ben who is the lead human character and, coincidentally, the only black person in the house. (Although he tragically gets shot later by fellow humans that mistake him for a zombie.)

And that movie is pretty much seen as one the inspirations for the entire zombie genre including the Resident Evil video games.
 
Ok, that's cool. I haven't seen the movie but I'll take your word for it, but don't you think a movie is a different experience? What I mean is, you sit there for 2 hours "watching" someone's imagination play out on-screen, but with a videogame, you're not just watching, you're "performing" these acts. They can create a game like Manhunt 2 and it gets an Adults-Only rating, but you create a movie like Hostel 2 which I'm willing to bet is way worse than Manhunt, and it gets an "R" rating and parents/guardians can still take their kids to see it, sick wacko parents, but parents, nonetheless, and they're out there.

Now I don't know if you're familiar with the name Nat Turner. If not, then Wiki it, and read it. Especially the part under "Capture and execution". This was a terrible black man that created a Massacre of innocent white people. Now, these were slavery times, and when I use the term "innocent" I refer to the women and children who were only involved due to the color of their skin, and I use the term lightly for the male victims who enslaved him. Once he was caught, they made an example of this guy to everyone. They probably told you little to nothing of this in school, of course. This guy lost it, and I repeat, HE DID A TERRIBLE THING.

If Capcom made a videogame about it, do you honestly believe that anyone would buy it. HELL TO THE N.O. What if he was surrounded by undead whites trying to kill him? No. What if he was a policeman? Still no. You know what happened to the black guy in Resident Evil 2, right? If you don't then shame on you, what are you doing on a videogame site? haha.

edit: oh damn, the black guy survives til the end and then gets shot accidentally???! Damn. I gotta go rent this. Thanks for the info Shipwreck.
 
[quote name='waco2austin']Ok, that's cool. I haven't seen the movie but I'll take your word for it, but don't you think a movie is a different experience? What I mean is, you sit there for 2 hours "watching" someone's imagination play out on-screen, but with a videogame, you're not just watching, you're "performing" these acts. They can create a game like Manhunt 2 and it gets an Adults-Only rating, but you create a movie like Hostel 2 which I'm willing to bet is way worse than Manhunt, and it gets an "R" rating and parents/guardians can still take their kids to see it, sick wacko parents, but parents, nonetheless, and they're out there.

Now I don't know if you're familiar with the name Nat Turner. If not, then Wiki it, and read it. Especially the part under "Capture and execution". This was a terrible black man that created a Massacre of innocent white people. Now, these were slavery times, and when I use the term "innocent" I refer to the women and children who were only involved due to the color of their skin, and I use the term lightly for the male victims who enslaved him. Once he was caught, they made an example of this guy to everyone. They probably told you little to nothing of this in school, of course. This guy lost it, and I repeat, HE DID A TERRIBLE THING.

If Capcom made a videogame about it, do you honestly believe that anyone would buy it. HELL TO THE N.O. What if he was surrounded by undead whites trying to kill him? No. What if he was a policeman? Still no. You know what happened to the black guy in Resident Evil 2, right? If you don't then shame on you, what are you doing on a videogame site? haha.[/QUOTE]

I'm really failing to make the connection to a fictional science fiction story and Nat Turner (yes, I'm familiar with him and learned about him in school).

But I do think you are sadly mistaken if you think people wouldn't buy a video game with white zombies being killed by a black hero. I'm pretty sure I bought Blade and killed a lot of white vampires before I realized that the game wasn't very good.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']I'm really failing to make the connection to a fictional science fiction story and Nat Turner (yes, I'm familiar with him and learned about him in school).

But I do think you are sadly mistaken if you think people wouldn't buy a video game with white zombies being killed by a black hero. I'm pretty sure I bought Blade and killed a lot of white vampires before I realized that the game wasn't very good.[/quote]
__________________________________________________________

Well, how about this. Just completely reverse the roles. Look back at that trailer and reverse the "color scheme" if you will. A lone black (or other "minority" in America) dude, laying waste to hundreds of crazed white American zombies. Would you buy it? Maybe you would, being a gamer and all, and if it got good reviews. But would America "buy it"? Doubtful. I think there would be the same uproar from white people as there are from black people today. Regardless.
Any game with a person from one particular race killing one type of people from another race would cause an uproar, and it should, regardless of the two races. Hell, I can't play online as Cole without someone occasionally getting pissed because I blew them away and using the "N" word in some form or another, without even knowing what race I really am. They just see a big black guy on the screen. And its not just blacks, its all races that get disrespected and it sucks and I hate it but unfortunately its the kinda sh*t we gotta deal with because people keep teaching their kids this dumb crap.
 
We all watched the same thing, and the only thing I thought of it was RE in Africa. You, and those ignorant enough to hunt for problems where problems do not exist, are the only ones that see any racism in the game. The fact of the matter is, there is no negative portrayal of anyone.

Perhaps if anything zombies now run and work as teams, which should make the zombie activists happy. Now all they need is a sitcom like the cavemen.

It never even occurred to me the characters were black until the issue was brought up. I saw impoverished people in an African setting with machetes. The first thing I thought was 90% of all African civil wars. I grew up in a very racially diverse area to the point where nobody gave a damn about it. It bothers me when people pull the card when something isn't the way they like it.

If the game was a black guy killing white zombies nobody would say shit. Blade is a racism movie because Blade is black and the vampires, who kill people (like zombies), are about 90% white. Everyone go cry now.

No, I'm not ignoring racism. I've accepted that it exists on rare occasion and searching for it only causes otherwise non-existent problems. The big names in racism are the Jesse Jacksons, the ones turning a once important cause into a charade to stir up old controversies. If you are dealing with racism 24/7, you need to move out of whatever time lapsed town you are in, or stop trying to find it.

edit: The xbox live population is by no means a representation of society. People will search for any insult they can, and if the most obvious one is that, then they will use it. If anything the word has lost so much meaning thanks to it's flagrant use by sects of the black community that I'm not surprised the little live kiddies throw it around.
 
[quote name='Surferflames']We all watched the same thing, and the only thing I thought of it was RE in Africa. You, and those ignorant enough to hunt for problems where problems do not exist, are the only ones that see any racism in the game. The fact of the matter is, there is no negative portrayal of anyone.

Perhaps if anything zombies now run and work as teams, which should make the zombie activists happy. Now all they need is a sitcom like the cavemen.

It never even occurred to me the characters were black until the issue was brought up. I saw impoverished people in an African setting with machetes. The first thing I thought was 90% of all African civil wars. I grew up in a very racially diverse area to the point where nobody gave a damn about it. It bothers me when people pull the card when something isn't the way they like it.

If the game was a black guy killing white zombies nobody would say shit. Blade is a racism movie because Blade is black and the vampires, who kill people (like zombies), are about 90% white. Everyone go cry now.

No, I'm not ignoring racism. I've accepted that it exists on rare occasion and searching for it only causes otherwise non-existent problems. The big names in racism are the Jesse Jacksons, the ones turning a once important cause into a charade to stir up old controversies. If you are dealing with racism 24/7, you need to move out of whatever time lapsed town you are in, or stop trying to find it.

edit: The xbox live population is by no means a representation of society. People will search for any insult they can, and if the most obvious one is that, then they will use it. If anything the word has lost so much meaning thanks to it's flagrant use by sects of the black community that I'm not surprised the little live kiddies throw it around.[/QUOTE]
Hey Surferflames:

You are insulting........."You, and those "ignorant" enough to hunt for problems where problems do not exist....."

You are in denial...... "If the game was a black guy killing white zombies nobody would say shit."

And you are clueless......."The xbox live population is by no means a representation of society."

When there are over 7 million people online and I can experience derogative racial remarks on a daily basis, I think that's a pretty clear indication of society....at least in the 18-34yr old demographic. Are you serious?

BTW- Blade is just the main character in a movie where he fights alongside whites (Kris Kristofferson, Jessica Biel for God's sake) against "mostly" white Vampires. His own mom was a vampire, which he killed. Did you even see the movie?

Talks break down because of posters like you and people who let anger instead of common sense speak for them. Thanks for calling me ignorant. I guess next you'll be forcing your religion on me too.
 
Actually I'll be telling you religion is the common man's opium and the cause of much of the problems in history, but that is not the subject.

I can't fully respond to much of what you said, because you didn't say much at all.

Yes I saw blade, I only bring it up as a comparison to what you are saying is supposedly happening/not happening. You don't know if the RE5 guy has black sidekicks. Maybe he meets a native from the area and teams up with him. It's a pretty damn close comparison. "just the main character in a movie" vs main character in a video game. I'm by no means in denial, nor clueless.

You can call me insulting all you want, but if that was a trailer for a horror movie that aired on national television it would fade away without more then a post on some fanatics blog or some failing politicians platform. Technically I never called you ignorant, but you have made yourself come across very much so.

I have only hate for those who wish to blame others for their own problems. Hate to break it to you but none of us enslaved you. If you didn't, this thread wouldn't exist and you would have just saw the trailer and said "oh, another RE."

I also fail to see how I am breaking down talks. I'm encouraging you to be more open to the idea that not all of us are filled with historical anger like you appear to be. Sure people profile, it happens, but not nearly as much as some people make it out to be. Hell I pay higher car insurance because I am a male, but nobody cares about that. I get "random" bomb residue tests every time I go to the airport because I generally fly alone.

Accept that it's not a hidden message targeted to influence the people of the world to hate black people. It's just a game.
 
[quote name='waco2austin']__________________________________________________________

Well, how about this. Just completely reverse the roles. Look back at that trailer and reverse the "color scheme" if you will. A lone black (or other "minority" in America) dude, laying waste to hundreds of crazed white American zombies. Would you buy it? Maybe you would, being a gamer and all, and if it got good reviews. But would America "buy it"? Doubtful. I think there would be the same uproar from white people as there are from black people today. Regardless.
Any game with a person from one particular race killing one type of people from another race would cause an uproar, and it should, regardless of the two races. Hell, I can't play online as Cole without someone occasionally getting pissed because I blew them away and using the "N" word in some form or another, without even knowing what race I really am. They just see a big black guy on the screen. And its not just blacks, its all races that get disrespected and it sucks and I hate it but unfortunately its the kinda sh*t we gotta deal with because people keep teaching their kids this dumb crap.[/QUOTE]

Reverse the roles, yes I still buy it. I don't care what the skin colors of the protagonist or the zombies are. I've never once looked at a game and decided I've not wanted to buy it due to the race of the characters.
 
To zombie infection, we're all the same color. Once we're all zombies, racial tension will be gone forever! Let's look forward to that glorious day!
 
[quote name='waco2austin']Now with you guys being Jewish...[/quote]

whoa whoa whoa, lets not start throwing out racial slurs lol
 
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