Would you support a ban of the face veil in the United States?

[quote name='Strell']Being that this is my personal fetish and the basis for the website I run - veiledandcrazykids.com - I would not be opposed. Girlsgoneveiled.com is my other site, but that's really more of a strictly higher class kind of voyeurism, for those with more discerning tastes.[/QUOTE]

LOL! have you ever seen Totally Baked??? OMG there is a part in there about "Fundamentalist Girls Gone Wild" or something along those lines, it's so funny!!

On a serious note, if we did ban Veils we'd be asking for more terrorist threats IMHO.

It's on Youtube lol
 
[quote name='punklivz']

On a serious note, if we did ban Veils we'd be asking for more terrorist threats IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

What you suggest here is absolutely sinister.
 
[quote name='Rex_Banner']Yes.

You're in america now, you have rights as a human being. Take the shit of your face.[/QUOTE]

What?!?!? Do you speak and negate yourself constantly? Must be a tough life. So sorry.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']What you suggest here is absolutely sinister.[/QUOTE]

It is, but it's a valid point. A move like banning face veils would 100% rile up the extremist Islamic groups who already hate the US, make it easier for them to recruit etc. as it would be a real slap in the face to much of the Muslim world.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.[/QUOTE]

Look up the word "jingoism."
 
[quote name='berzirk']OK, I get it, I get it. You don't know crap about Islam but want to have an opinion on it...
So keep telling me about what it's like to be muslim, or a muslim woman. You've got tons of credibility so far.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what he is saying about rabbit. I'm an American and constantly amazed by how many people have worthless opinions that expect others to take them seriously. "You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

I am an ex-Muslim and I can confirm that what berzirk is saying. Wearing the veil IS part of the religion but not mandatory. Some Muslims like to think that it is and I take issue with that but will not prevent those who do want to wear them. If it doesn't hurt you then mind your own goddamned business. And quit wasting your limited thought caparcity on formulating hafl-baked ideas and use that to read a book on that subject. No, anythign by Glen Beck or his ilk count as books. There is no shortage of scholarly material on these subjects But, you don't want to put the effort to actually learn? Sounds like brash, lazy arrogance to me. Now, why don't people like us Americans???
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It is, but it's a valid point. A move like banning face veils would 100% rile up the extremist Islamic groups who already hate the US, make it easier for them to recruit etc. as it would be a real slap in the face to much of the Muslim world.[/QUOTE]

The cartoons from Denmark also riled up Islamists. There's no pleasing these people, and nothing we do to alleviate their anger is going to work.
 
The particular cartoons that really pushed Muslims over the edge weren't actually from the cartoonist. They were more offensive than what the cartoonist did. They were photoshopped images of things that were taken out of context, such as a clothes-wearing pig that was a drawing to promote a food event. These altered pictures were distributed by a Muslim Imam to deliberately create anger where there wasn't originally.

Even though hijabs and veils are used to show modesty, I have seen some young women wear hijabs along with such clothes as tight leggings. So I don't know what the intent is anymore.

I an against a ban for them, but face-covering veils have a stigma all their own unrelated to religion. In my opinion, it makes the person appear closed off to society and unapproachable if we can barely see their face. It's the same kind of reasoning that makes some people think you're a douchebag for wearing sunglasses indoors.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']The cartoons from Denmark also riled up Islamists. There's no pleasing these people, and nothing we do to alleviate their anger is going to work.[/QUOTE]

Sure, but not doing things to blatantly offend them doesn't hurt anything.

Not to mention banning an article of clothing--especially one with religious meaning--would fly in the face of the very freedoms the US was founded on.
 
[quote name='CC Ricers']The particular cartoons that really pushed Muslims over the edge weren't actually from the cartoonist. They were more offensive than what the cartoonist did. They were photoshopped images of things that were taken out of context, such as a clothes-wearing pig that was a drawing to promote a food event. These altered pictures were distributed by a Muslim Imam to deliberately create anger where there wasn't originally.

Even though hijabs and veils are used to show modesty, I have seen some young women wear hijabs along with such clothes as tight leggings. So I don't know what the intent is anymore.
[/QUOTE]

I have made that observation as well. Its demonstrates the way religion generally handicaps the though process. The girls who do this obviously have not thought this through or they would see the utter hypocrisy. Its much like Christians who go to church and do all manner of things like abuse their spouses, lie, gossip, have premarital sex or affairs, etc. They often believe they are good Christians. Especially support war and claim to follow Jesus Christ. Religion allows them to turn off their ability to think in exchange for worshiping some higher authority and therefore live within logical fallacies.

For your previous point, I would require a link/source.
 
[quote name='rabbitt'] There's no pleasing these people, and nothing we do to alleviate their anger is going to work.[/QUOTE]

What you fail to understand is that we don't want you to please us. We just don't want you to go out of your way to offend us. I'm not speaking in generalities here, I'm speaking to you specifically. Your post history has shown that you dislike Islam. That's fine. That doesn't please or displease me. When you create a thread to give your Islamic interpretation on the face veil, you offend. You had to go out of your way to do it. About 90% of people think it should not be banned. Poll over.

So what is your real intent?
 
Despite the 6 morons who voted to completely ban veils, there isn't much room for debate here, I think the better question is, should they be required to remove their veils while going through security checkpoints, or for picture ID?
 
I'll say no, but people who wear veils need to take them off for stuff like drivers' license photos, because you need some sort of proper identification.
 
[quote name='Clak']No, in fact if I see one more gangsta with his shorts around his knees and his ass exposed I may starts wearing a veil just to keep from seeing it.[/QUOTE]
I support a ban on 'gangstas'(usually middle class white kids whose mommy and daddy buy them everything)dressing like they do. But let's keep the veils cuz let's face it, some of the women wearing em are uuuuuugly underneath em. It's like a public service some are doing for us by keeping their faces hidden.;):applause:
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I support a ban on 'gangstas'(usually middle class white kids whose mommy and daddy buy them everything)dressing like they do. But let's keep the veils cuz let's face it, some of the women wearing em are uuuuuugly underneath em. It's like a public service some are doing for us by keeping their faces hidden.;):applause:[/QUOTE]

Then would you support all ugly chicks wearing veils? I'm on the fence with that. What I would love to ban is FAT chicks wearign tight clothes. PLEASE! If you don't work out and it shows in spades, DO NOT WEAR WORKOUT CLOTHES!!! UGHHHHHH! Now that would have been a better poll question for the OP than this xenophobic shit. This poll is just a veiled (pun intended) attempt at bigotry. Seriously, not everyone lives the same as Americans. Get over it. But then again getting over differences wouldn't make you an American anymore. You want to shove your lifestyle down everyones throats and invade countries to do it.
Teach-Democracy-T-Shirt-%288093%29.jpg
 
[quote name='rabbitt']The cartoons from Denmark also riled up Islamists. There's no pleasing these people, and nothing we do to alleviate their anger is going to work.[/QUOTE]

How would you like it if I came to your house, threw you out and put one of my friends in there and then went on to take your salary. You are in DIRE need to learn YOUR OWN HISTORY. It amazes me how little Americans know of their own history and proceed to act as if they know what is best for the rest of the world. Your history is littered with overthrows of govts, support of brutal paramilitary groups who rape and gut pregnant nuns, torture, disappear, murder, and terrorize local populations. Subverting elections. Arm both sides of a conflict. And guess what? Its not just the Arab world as your vacuous media would have you believe. Ever heard the term Yankee? Yeah, Latin America, your neighbors, have major beef with your govt. Asia. Africa. Even some Europeans. Interesting thing, after 9/11, 90% of Greeks thought that the USA deserved it. Now, resist reacting on limited knowledge and worldview. Could our support of fascist rule have a little something to do with that?

Keep that ignorance to yourself lest you make a fool out of yourself. Whoops, you already have.

If you have ANY interest in your own history then read Mr Blum's expertly documented
Killing Hope: US Interventions in the Third World since World WarII

[SIZE=+0]
KillingHope.jpg
[/SIZE]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html

"It was in the early days of the fighting in Vietnam that a Vietcong officer said to his American prisoner: "You were our heroes after the War. We read American books and saw American films, and a common phrase in those days was 'to be as rich and as wise as an American'. What happened?"

An American might have been asked something similar by a Guatemalan, an Indonesian or a Cuban during the ten years previous, or by a Uruguayan, a Chilean or a Greek in the decade subsequent. The remarkable international goodwill and credibility enjoyed by the United States at the close of the Second World War was dissipated country by country, intervention by intervention."

William Blum
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Then would you support all ugly chicks wearing veils? I'm on the fence with that. What I would love to ban is FAT chicks wearign tight clothes. PLEASE! If you don't work out and it shows in spades, DO NOT WEAR WORKOUT CLOTHES!!! UGHHHHHH! Now that would have been a better poll question for the OP than this xenophobic shit. This poll is just a veiled (pun intended) attempt at bigotry. Seriously, not everyone lives the same as Americans. Get over it. But then again getting over differences wouldn't make you an American anymore. You want to shove your lifestyle down everyones throats and invade countries to do it.[/QUOTE]
I would openly support a ban on fat folks wearing tight clothes in general and this is coming from a guy who's fat himself. But at least I have the common decency to wear loose fitting clothes and I don't think I'm all that like some of these fat chicks do.

They jiggle their jello ass like it's the best thing out there.:puke:

That brings me to the worst offenders of them all: the 600 lb people using the Hoverounds that Wally World and other stores provide for them. If you can walk from your car to the store to get into the scooter inside the store, you can waddle your ass to the snack aisle to go get another case of Ho-Ho's as well as walk around the store in general for exercise.

America is too fat as it is. It's a shock to me that this nation hasn't sunken into the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean already from the sheer girth of our combined populace.
 
You guys have the pleasure of seeing a fat chick wearing tight work out clothes like spandex and you see the cellulite? Like you see the mini-cellulite craters shape? GGGGGG (I'm stuttering)..GGGROSSSS!!!! WTF! I don't understand! Is there fat instead of a brain? How can they think that is not gross? If I was fat, I would wanna hide that shit in loose clothes.
And then they won't walk when they actually can and use segway type shit? And ride one to get their super size value meal with all the extras? Most people are obese because they are lazy and eat shit. Only a small percent are genetic. Only in America. SUPER-size caskets! Sad!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOLxEDvKURo&feature=player_embedded
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']You guys have the pleasure of seeing a fat chick wearing tight work out clothes like spandex and you see the cellulite? Like you see the mini-cellulite craters shape? GGGGGG (I'm stuttering)..GGGROSSSS!!!! WTF! I don't understand! Is there fat instead of a brain? How can they think that is not gross? If I was fat, I would wanna hide that shit in loose clothes.
And then they won't walk when they actually can and use segway type shit? And ride one to get their super size value meal with all the extras? Most people are obese because they are lazy and eat shit. Only a small percent are genetic. Only in America. SUPER-size caskets! Sad!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOLxEDvKURo&feature=player_embedded [/quote]

You know what I'm REALLY sick of, THIS fuckin' commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKPeYrrhIvQ

They play it 24/7 on virtually every channel. It's so fuckin' annoying. I wanna take one of these scooters and ram it up it's inventors ass, put it on super high speed and aim it towards a frickin' DEEP lake.

But at least the people in the commercial seems to be the other group the scooter people focus on mainly: old folks. I have no problems with old people, but the fat asses who weigh 12,000 lbs and whose fat hangs half a foot over each side of the seat on these scooters really need Jenny Craig(or Jack Kevorkian).
 
In reverse order:

[quote name='joeboosauce']How would you like it if I came to your house, threw you out and put one of my friends in there and then went on to take your salary. You are in DIRE need to learn YOUR OWN HISTORY. It amazes me how little Americans know of their own history and proceed to act as if they know what is best for the rest of the world. Your history is littered with overthrows of govts, support of brutal paramilitary groups who rape and gut pregnant nuns, torture, disappear, murder, and terrorize local populations. Subverting elections. Arm both sides of a conflict. And guess what? Its not just the Arab world as your vacuous media would have you believe. Ever heard the term Yankee? Yeah, Latin America, your neighbors, have major beef with your govt. Asia. Africa. Even some Europeans. Interesting thing, after 9/11, 90% of Greeks thought that the USA deserved it. Now, resist reacting on limited knowledge and worldview. Could our support of fascist rule have a little something to do with that?

Keep that ignorance to yourself lest you make a fool out of yourself. Whoops, you already have.

If you have ANY interest in your own history then read Mr Blum's expertly documented
Killing Hope: US Interventions in the Third World since World WarII
...[/quote]

Pseudo-intellectual relativistic bullshit. Exactly what you get when you've been reading the same author as Osama bin Laden.

[quote name='berzirk']What you fail to understand is that we don't want you to please us. We just don't want you to go out of your way to offend us. I'm not speaking in generalities here, I'm speaking to you specifically. Your post history has shown that you dislike Islam. That's fine. That doesn't please or displease me. When you create a thread to give your Islamic interpretation on the face veil, you offend. You had to go out of your way to do it. About 90% of people think it should not be banned. Poll over.

So what is your real intent?[/quote]

I don't appreciate the derogatory tone of what you direct towards me but I'll respond anyways.

You must think you're being generous with the following: "We just don't want you to go out of your way to offend us." You take 'please' in the previous sentence to mean something literal, as in a favor or attempt at saving face. Perhaps I should have said 'appease' instead.

All of that said, I'm thankful for your intellectual honesty. You make the point that I wanted to allude to with that line. Islam expects special treatment from non-Muslims. It wants immunity from criticism. It wants Comedy Central to be afraid of airing cartoons. It wants Denmark to be afraid of posting comic strips. It wants CNN to be afraid of airing them, for fear of retribution. And 'moderate' Muslims such as yourself would criticize the cartoonists before your condemned the retaliatory fires in the streets by enraged Muslims.

All I can say is that you better get used to being offended if all it takes is discourse about the garb of your faith, because I won't bow to the fatuous ramblings of imams who only need one book and claim to understand everything about the world based on it. If you're feeling left out, I won't settle for the KKK to wear their hoods in public.

[quote name='dmaul1114']
Sure, but not doing things to blatantly offend them doesn't hurt anything.

Not to mention banning an article of clothing--especially one with religious meaning--would fly in the face of the very freedoms the US was founded on. [/quote]

Who gets to decide what is offensive? This comes up again and again, but nobody has ever had a reasonable response to this. The only thing we can say under the flag of reason is that, everyone gets offended at some point and that while we are allowed to be so, it doesn't give us permission to blow up cars.

So what if someone is offended. That doesn't give them the right to silence my opinion and it certainly doesn't allow them to act on the offense. I am offended on a daily basis, but I don't deny anyone the right to express themselves (in verbal or written form) and I don't blow up cars.
 
I'm the first to call out Henry Kissinger and the bombing of Cambodia. He should be imprisoned for war crimes and it's a shame he isn't behind bars now.

You're going to have to show me where I say or allude to that.
 
Rabbit-

Dude, you're delusional. You've got a hardon for Islam bashing, like to make up imaginary situations were some veiled boogey(wo)man is out to get you, then use a series of misinterpretations or actions by a handful of people in public as all of your evidence.

Nobody is silencing your opinion, however stupid and bigoted it is. But we are allowed to call you a dick and move on. If you think some guy on a videogame forum whining and bashing Islam is enough to offend me, then you give yourself too much credit. Heck, I used to do stand up comedy. Not too many other hobbies/professions require thicker skin.

With hecklers, we'd chalk it up to a person being drunk, or just being an asshole that needs attention. So, if you're not drunk...ehem....

Again, I think you got your answer to the poll question, a resounding no. Sooo...why are you still posting?

Anyhoo...not a whole lot coming out of this thread, so I'm done with it. Bye bye. Or as salaam alaikum, if you want to be horrified and need ammunition for your next rant...er, thread.
 
A religious person is telling me that my views don't line up with reason? By definition, religious thought discards reason for belief.

You've misrepresented my view in nearly every post of this topic. I suppose it's easier for you to attack a straw-man, but none of what you assess is actually what I say. And while we're at it, only one of us has resorted to ad hominem.

Finally, you're missing the point entirely when you say that no one is silencing my opinion. Precisely the point of the blasphemy laws is that it they are an attempt to silence dissent within and beyond the perimeter of Islam.

As an aside, I'm curious of what it is I've said that you classify as bashing. And if you think I reserve my vitriol for only one religion, you haven't even scratched the surface of naivete.
 
I wouldn't support a ban. But AFAIC veil wearing women are on their own with the whole driver's license/passport/bank thing. Like it or not, when you interact with certain institutions and businesses they have a need to see your face for identification.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']
Who gets to decide what is offensive? This comes up again and again, but nobody has ever had a reasonable response to this. The only thing we can say under the flag of reason is that, everyone gets offended at some point and that while we are allowed to be so, it doesn't give us permission to blow up cars.

So what if someone is offended. That doesn't give them the right to silence my opinion and it certainly doesn't allow them to act on the offense. I am offended on a daily basis, but I don't deny anyone the right to express themselves (in verbal or written form) and I don't blow up cars.[/QUOTE]

Are you really that big of an asshole?

All my post was getting at is that it shouldn't be that hard to treat everyone with respect, regardless of how they differ from you. Why do we have to mock other lifestyles, religions etc.? Or ban clothing that has religious meaning to other groups?

Of course being offended isn't justification for terrorism, no one remotely implied that.

But we're talking about banning face veils here, which is denying someone the right to express themselves--which you just said you don't do. So logic fail--par for the course for this stupid subforum though.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']I'm the first to call out Henry Kissinger and the bombing of Cambodia. He should be imprisoned for war crimes and it's a shame he isn't behind bars now.

You're going to have to show me where I say or allude to that.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='rabbitt']
Pseudo-intellectual relativistic bullshit. Exactly what you get when you've been reading the same author as Osama bin Laden.
[/QUOTE]
That.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Ever heard the term Yankee? Yeah, Latin America, your neighbors, have major beef with your govt.[/QUOTE]

Their issue is really with Daddy Yankee
 
Nope I would think they would have every right to wear them. The real reason they want them gone is that because in most of Europe they have huge spying grids with cameras on the streets and face recognition program. They can't get the people wearing the cloths.
 
I would not support a ban. People should be able to dress as they wish, even if some may feel that it's supressive of women or whatever.

However: Items like these should have to be removed when taking pictures for picture ID's, Passports, etc. And any face covering should have to be removed to verify someone is the person in their ID photo.

Whats the point of having photo ID if everyone looks like a Ninja? If I have to take my shoes off to get on a plane then you should have to remove your veil to get on a plane.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Are you really that big of an asshole?

All my post was getting at is that it shouldn't be that hard to treat everyone with respect, regardless of how they differ from you. Why do we have to mock other lifestyles, religions etc.? Or ban clothing that has religious meaning to other groups?

Of course being offended isn't justification for terrorism, no one remotely implied that.

But we're talking about banning face veils here, which is denying someone the right to express themselves--which you just said you don't do. So logic fail--par for the course for this stupid subforum though.[/QUOTE]

To your first question, in real life, yes. But I'm honestly surprised by your reaction nonetheless, one because I quite like you and two because, while I don't go out of my way and I certainly don't do it consciously, I like to think I speak decently to my fellow man when I debate.

There have been several innuendos in the topic alone to suggest that being offended by something is good enough to act against a 'blasphemous' view. This isn't something ever said outright, but look for it in the form of euphemisms.

Is it okay for a KKK member to walk around with his hood on? Of course, he'd be asked to remove it for all of the identification processes at airports and banks, that sort of thing- but do we grant this religious group to wear its face veil as well as Muslim women?

[quote name='fullmetalfan720']That. [/quote]

I didn't say that the points he brings up are entirely invalid. Nobody denies the US's imperial nature. I certainly don't. But I don't make excuses for extremist assholes in this light.

Nevermind that his entire post in defense of Muslim extremists was contradictory and hypocritical. If he's so opposed to imperialism, he'd know that Osama bin Laden strives for nothing less than a Muslim empire.
 
Well, I was just surprised by your comment as I'd never gotten the asshole vibe from you before.

You came across more as supporting that guy on here was campaigning with the offensive drawing's of Mohammed to protest Comedy Central editing the South Park episode after they got complaints from Muslims. Which was absurd as people should have wrote Comedy Central and complained, not been assholes and mocked Muslims deliberately to piss them off.

My point in the earlier post was we have free speech, but that doesn't mean that it should be socially acceptable to go around disrespecting others, mocking people different from us etc. It's 100% legal (and should be) to do so. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be frowned up as the world is a much better place when people treat others with respect, find ways to laugh without putting others down etc.

As for the KK, sure they're allowed to wear they're hoods etc. where ever, just like Muslims are allowed to wear face veils. Both should have to take them off for identification, security checks etc. But we're a nation founded on free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of expression etc. Banning of any clothing flies in the face of that.
 
[quote name='rabbitt'] Pseudo-intellectual relativistic bullshit. Exactly what you get when you've been reading the same author as Osama bin Laden.[/QUOTE]

Again, make my case for me. READ it before you rush to judgment. I know that is against your MO but really you just seem ignorant. I suppose CIA documents of illegal operations with complete disregard for others lives is relativist. Have you ever seen a butchered body of a child? You tell people who have suffered at the hands of YOUR govt that their dead loved one is a relative matter. Then 911 is a relative matter. ONLY 3000 people. Thats nothing. /sarcasm

And here's a lesson. Attacking the messenger, ie berzirk because he is religious, weakens your so called argument. If his point is valid which it is, you should counter his point. And his point still stands strong. Your fear of other that are different are behind your pathetic rationalizations. Its obvious you are not aware of it and that is truly sad when someone does not understand their own devices. Further, so what if OBL has read Blum's book? You know Hitler read a lot of US policies in constructing his. Especially, in regards to genocide ie US policies of extermination against the Native population.


If THIS is your poster child for Islamic imposition over others, find a real cause. Using guns, tanks, F14s, drones, missiles, the threat of nuclear force, and torture are a far greater impositions than someone choosing to wear clothes over their face. While you're at it why don't you ban masks on Halloween? Oh, I see. YOUR customs are fine but others aren't.

Really, you are the example of those Americans who are out of touch with teh world and experiences of others. Your singular experience is all you know and all that matters. Just because you are atheist, hardly means that you are free of indoctrination. You show it with your ethnocentric poll here.

Why don't YOU stop imposing bombs on others? And stop imposing control over the third world in your decadent and depraved need for cheap, cheap, cheap and cheap resources?

I think MUSLIM guy as well a many other MUSLIMS have actually had a slight imposition. Haha and you are going to whine about clothing? Grow up and some balls and appreciate that you are not under the boot-heels of Uncle Sam for being a f-n brownie. Cry baby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rfVLo4xFY

Imagine being interrogated and tortured for 16-20 hours STRAIGHT?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL3__pxKUkI
 
[quote name='rabbitt']Is it okay for a KKK member to walk around with his hood on? Of course, he'd be asked to remove it for all of the identification processes at airports and banks, that sort of thing- but do we grant this religious group to wear its face veil as well as Muslim women?
[/QUOTE]

Is it OK or moral? No.

Is it legal. Yes.

There's the difference in your argument. This is still America right? Focus on the big issues and let all the cultural issues be decided by the individual.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top