WTF is up with the confederate flag?

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[quote name='pittpizza']
MANY people in this thread, (IMO of course) seem to be DRASTICALLY downplaying the role racism and slavery serve in the symbol of the confederate flag. It does, at its most simplest definition, represent the union and symbol of the slave states. So to me, it says at least "I support the slave states!"[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Then, using the same logic, I'm sure you are equally as offended when you see people wearing Che shirts, as they clearly support murdering and imprisoning innocents. Right?
 
Do any of these symbols really matter that much? Confederate flags, US flags, even Che T-shirts like thrust said. They can all mean something bad. Why focus on the symbols instead of the ideas behind them?
 
Just to throw this out there - for those of you who think anyone waving the Confederate Flag is a racist - do you feel children (or, heck, adults) who celebrate Halloween do it to scare away the undead spirits? Do you think everyone who celebrates Christmas does so in celebration of Christ?
 
you don't stop with inappropriate and meaningless comparisons, do you?

first and foremost, both of those examples' cultural symbolism has been 150% made into a commodity for purchase. second, they're fucking holidays. big ones, too, that most of the country participates in. third, their cultural meanings prior to co-optation weren't about being pro secession or racism or negative things (unless I suppose you were in favor of letting the undead hang around at samhain).

absolutely incomparable.
 
I like how you made absolutely no effort to answer the question asked.

I also like how you make no attempt to understand symbolism and how symbols can change and evolve over time and how the same symbol can have different meanings for different people.
 
Saw a dude at Chuck E. Cheese yesterday and he was wearing a Confederate Flag tank top. The caption at the top read, "I'm doing this just to piss you off." I'm pretty sure kids getting candy on Halloween don't do so just to piss people off.

Why is everyone making comparisons to other things in this thread? It's like a bad Family Guy episode where shit gets compared just to try and get a point across. The flag flew over states that seceded from the Union. They went to war over perceived injustices against them by the North. Is this really what you guys want to support?

EDIT -- If the flag truly means southern pride now, why do ignorant white dudes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and other states in the North fly the flag? I think I'm gonna start flying the Mexican flag just to piss off my white neighbors.

EDIT # 2 -- camoor and Ramstoria, you guys just don't get it. I'm making a simple comparison not saying that Mexicans and slaves have the same exact circumstances. Both groups of people fled the oppression and poverty they were under to areas of the North where they cold find jobs and live somewhat normal lives. I guess I should wait for the inevitable nitpicking because you guys would rather get the one up in an Internet argument than discuss the effect that the Stars and Bars have on our citizens.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Why is everyone making comparisons to other things in this thread?[/quote]

Because facts and reason are against them?
 
There's something about that attitude: "I'm doing this just to piss you off," that I think is relatively recent and wholly American.

If we're not offending someone somewhere at somepoint, then we aren't showing off our freedoms.

Like when the US news media laughed their collective asses off when John Kerry made reference to "pass[ing] a global test" during a 2004 debate. The idea that we hesitate before doing whatever the fuck it is that we want to at that very moment is UNAMERICAN.

But that's another topic for another thread.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Saw a dude at Chuck E. Cheese yesterday and he was wearing a Confederate Flag tank top. The caption at the top read, "I'm doing this just to piss you off." I'm pretty sure kids getting candy on Halloween don't do so just to piss people off.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that guy was wearing the shirt in a real attempt to piss people off.
Much like the guy wearing the shirt about hearing voices really hears voices and the guy wearing the shirt about being a Federal Boobie Inspector is really a federal agent sent to inspect the breasts of good looking women.

And I'm sure the kids that TP'd my neighbor's lawn last Halloween did so because they thought the neighbor's needed some toilet paper, but couldn't be bothered to leave it on their doorstep.

[quote name='depascal22']Why is everyone making comparisons to other things in this thread?[...]you guys just don't get it. I'm making a simple comparison[...][/quote]
Heh.
 
There's a difference between wearing the Stars and Bars in an attempt to piss people off and wearing a Boobie Inspector shirt.

I made the comparison betwen slaves and Mexicans because of other posts being made. It was along the gist that if you're going to make comparisons, make them at least contextual and relevant to the discussion. I guess that makes me a hypocrite. I'm cool with it.
 
In my (admittedly, limited) experience, if you're doing something just to piss people off, you generally don't tell them you're doing it just to piss them off. It tends to limit the effectiveness.

But, yeah... I mean, the shirt said he was wearing it to piss people off. If you read it on some guy's shirt, then it must be true.

My guess is the guy thought (incorrectly) that the shirt was funny. If he really wanted to piss people off, he could have just as easily wore a shirt consisting of a plain Confederate flag or, perhaps, the old town flag of South Park...
fic-spk1.gif
 
[quote name='UncleBob']In my (admittedly, limited) experience, if you're doing something just to piss people off, you generally don't tell them you're doing it just to piss them off. It tends to limit the effectiveness.

But, yeah... I mean, the shirt said he was wearing it to piss people off. If you read it on some guy's shirt, then it must be true.

My guess is the guy thought (incorrectly) that the shirt was funny. If he really wanted to piss people off, he could have just as easily wore a shirt consisting of a plain Confederate flag or, perhaps, the old town flag of South Park...
fic-spk1.gif
[/QUOTE]

You need a better copy of the South Park flag because it had people of many different colors on it but I get your point.

The Confed. flag story just illustrates the ignorance of the people that still fly the Stars and Bars. Was Chuck E. Cheese even close to an appropriate place for it to be seen? No. Was it ironic or funny? At the same time, maybe I shouldn't think that everyone wearing a Packers jersey at Lambeau is a Packers fan. Ooops. There I go being hypocritical again.
 
Got something better than that? Cuz it's a decent point. It seems that you can't look at what a person is wearing and make a assumption about them no matter what they wear. Oh, he's wearing the Stars and Bars. He's so rebellious and ironic!

That guy's wearing a Packers jersey, he must be a Viking fan in disguise! It would be too obvious for a football fan to wear the jersey of their favorite team because you can never ever make assumptions based on what a person wears.
 
You need a better copy of the South Park flag because it had people of many different colors on it but I get your point.
Click to expand...
Now, I haven't wanted South Park in awhile, but I believe that the episode (which thinly mimicked the same issue we are debating here) dealt with the town's flag (pictured above) and everyone's reaction to it. By the end of the episode, the town had a new flag which was similar, but showed people of all colors joining hands with the black stick person still hanging.

It's funny - I prefer Star Trek over Star Wars, but I was joking with a friend of mine about going to the local premier of the new Star Trek movie in a Storm Trooper outfit.

Anyway, I guess if you read it on a shirt, it *must* be true. I'm gonna go get me an Federal Boobie Inspector shirt.
 
Like I said, there's a difference between wearing a Confederate Flag shirt and a Federal Boobie inspector. I'd argue that neither of them were appropriate for Chuck E. Cheese and I'd say that you're a fool for wearing either unless you're at a beach on the Gulf of Mexico.

Here's my question to you since you seem to be avoiding it. Would you wear a Confederate Flag shirt and the quote "I'm doing this just to piss you off" and expect people to think it's ironic?

How about we change the football analogy to a person at the Meadowlands wearing a Giants or Jets jersey since perdition thinks that the statement is blasphemous? Should we assume that they're making an ironic statement?

You could argue that the asshole didn't wear the shirt to make a political statement but because it was hip and cool. That leads us back here. How did a flag that stands for a secessionist group of states that supported slavery long past everyone else become an icon for hip and cool? Will Nazi swastikas be hip and cool in the next decade or so?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Here's my question to you since you seem to be avoiding it. Would you wear a Confederate Flag shirt and the quote "I'm doing this just to piss you off" and expect people to think it's ironic?[/QUOTE]

No, but then I also don't expect everyone to think exactly like I do.

Do you?
 
[quote name='depascal22']
Here's my question to you since you seem to be avoiding it. Would you wear a Confederate Flag shirt and the quote "I'm doing this just to piss you off" and expect people to think it's ironic?[/QUOTE]
Just the ones with a sense of humor



[quote name='depascal22']. How did a flag that stands for a secessionist group of states that supported slavery long past everyone else become an icon for hip and cool?[/QUOTE]
Slavery in American ended 1865,
In Brazil 1888
Korea 1894
china 1906
UN 1948
Oman 1970

There are many more countries that abolished slavery after America you can find some here
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline#2.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Like when the US news media laughed their collective asses off when John Kerry made reference to "pass[ing] a global test" during a 2004 debate. The idea that we hesitate before doing whatever the fuck it is that we want to at that very moment is UNAMERICAN.

But that's another topic for another thread.[/QUOTE]

If you make the thread I'll disagree with your assessment ;)
 
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