Xbox 361, who's buying? (Link added with additional pics)

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jmiller80

jmiller80

CAGiversary!
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/the-second-xbox-360-revealed-codename-zephyr/

Rumored cooler chip, bigger hard drive, HDMI. Hopefully, this means the lawnmower of next gen will be quieter, but that means a different DVD drive.

I'm a little ambivalent about a console upgrade so soon, but maybe I could get a higher trade-in value for the current 360. Thoughts?

Is anyone interested? What else would you want to justify the "upgrade?" Built in HD-DVD?


DaPhatty Edit: More Pictures. Seems like the proof is in the pudding.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEylpyZkVpwzemjZKk.php

J Edit:
As noted in the second link, the pictured device is some sort of dev kit build.


J Edit:
Confirmed by MS employee.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163965.html

GS: What can you tell us about the HDMI-enabled Xbox 360 rumors that have been going around?

CS: We're always working on prototypes and new technologies and just playing with stuff in Redmond to see what's interesting. I think at the moment we have the widest available connections on the system. If you want to get great HD, I think we've got a good solution for that. In the future it's interesting to see where standards evolve to. I think one of the problems that the whole industry, us and entertainment, are facing at the moment is we're in this world where standards are evolving very quickly.

We have different high-definition standards for discs that we know are competing at the moment. We think HD-DVD is going to be the right way to go, but really it's all about choice in that system so that's why we're offering these sort of services with downloads--skip that whole "format wars" problem. With other standards, audiovideo standards, they're evolving very quickly as well. We're obviously keeping an eye on that and saying, "What are the future standards and how do we give consumers the right choice for that?"

At the moment, everything you might have seen is just looking at our experimentation back in Redmond, not really a product that we're thinking about announcing.
Click to expand...

As expected, they play it off as MS just trying some new stuff, which is plausible. That fails to explain why one of their trial units got in the hands of someone who would post pictures of it online.
 
Well if this is true I want my money back for my 360. This new system better cost more than $399 otherwise I feel like MS sold me up the river. What the hell ever happened to a console is a console. Sure there were like 7 versions of the PS2 but they never ADDED new stuff to the console to make it better, if I can't do 1080p on this version of the console but it will be possible on that version then they need to accept the systems for exchange.
 
Too late. I already bought mine. Though built in HD-DVD would be very nice.

[quote name='Indiana'] Sure there were like 7 versions of the PS2 but they never ADDED new stuff to the console to make it better.[/quote]

Umm... SCPH-5001 added built in IR
 
I was wondering when they would release this. Now the question is whether they would put in an integrated HD-DVD drive. I would bite on that. I have also heard from a monster rep at Circuit city that they would be releasing an HDMI cable for the current Xbox 360. Whether that is true or not I am not sure.
 
[quote name='Indiana']Well if this is true I want my money back for my 360.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. The fact that Microsoft was already willing to sell you a console that couldn't play all games to full capacity (the Core) indicates to me that, if this system is not rumor (and I'm not buying completely into it based on one photograph), then in the years to come Premium 360 users could just as easily find themselves unable to play certain software.
 
[quote name='Purkeynator']I was wondering when they would release this. Now the question is whether they would put in an integrated HD-DVD drive. I would bite on that. I have also heard from a monster rep at Circuit city that they would be releasing an HDMI cable for the current Xbox 360. Whether that is true or not I am not sure.[/QUOTE]

Well, if they do release one with an internal HD-DVD drive, that would do Sony a massive favor. There's no way they could add HDMI, HD-DVD, and a larger (100GB or so) HDD and stay at $400 MSRP. It would do Sony a favor by alleviating the "holy shit that's expensive!" factor when it comes to buying a PS3.
 
[quote name='Cormier6083']Too late. I already bought mine. Though built in HD-DVD would be very nice.



Umm... SCPH-5001 added built in IR[/QUOTE]

Yeah but that didn't make the games look better or add High Def movies.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, if they do release one with an internal HD-DVD drive, that would do Sony a massive favor. There's no way they could add HDMI, HD-DVD, and a larger (100GB or so) HDD and stay at $400 MSRP. It would do Sony a favor by alleviating the "holy shit that's expensive!" factor when it comes to buying a PS3.[/QUOTE]

I agree if they release a $599 Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, 120GB drive and HDMI they would be helping Sony.
 
Hopefully it's true and it's the only model they make. I've got a non-sensing IR sensor that's been like that since launch, I'd love to trade it in for a box with more features.
 
[quote name='Indiana']I agree if they release a $599 Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, 120GB drive and HDMI they would be helping Sony.[/QUOTE]

It's quite a conundrum for 360, really. They've pledged to embrace the HD-DVD format, and that's fine (esp. since the player is both optional and reasonably priced). However, they've also pledged (and I don't really fully believe this for the long-term future of the 360) that the HD-DVD will only be used for movies, and never for games.

If they choose to integrate it, and add the other things people want, they've easily constructed a $500 console (I'd say it's premature to say it would be $600 - especially b/c MS can weather losses better than Sony, and they're well aware of the backlash of pricing a system that high). Anyway, if they integrate it and allow it to be used for games, they've alienated the just-shy-of-10-million people who currently own a 360, and shown that consumers can't rely on a 360 for the duration of its lifespan based on on the system itself, but the bureaucratic decisions of the company.

OTOH, if they merely integrate it as a movie player (just as likely), they have a system that's closer in price to the PS3, but gives Sony the size advantage because that storage can be used for the PS3 titles, but not the 360.

It's a major catch-22. Personally, I'd like a larger HDD for the 360 and that's about it. I don't see why HDMI is so bloomin' necessary, since the 360 *could* feasibly achieve 1080p over component (it does already for games, doesn't it?). Moreover, if they're committed to not using HD-DVD as a gaming format, it may not serve them well to integrate it (unless the end strategy is to create three-tiers of consoles for consumers to purchase from - yikes).
 
This definitely one to file under the rumor heading.

The picture lends credibility (if authentic), but doesn't say much other than that this is one possible direction they are working on (as you would expect). Remember all those cosmetic design iterations for the 360? This could be the same thing on the nuts-and-bolts hardware side. Or it could be a new devkit.

MS isn't alone in this endeavor/folly. See the PS3.5 or PS3X comments, as it were.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/20/ken-kutaragi-talks-av-centric-ps3-uh-psx3-ps3x/
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's quite a conundrum for 360, really. They've pledged to embrace the HD-DVD format, and that's fine (esp. since the player is both optional and reasonably priced). However, they've also pledged (and I don't really fully believe this for the long-term future of the 360) that the HD-DVD will only be used for movies, and never for games.

If they choose to integrate it, and add the other things people want, they've easily constructed a $500 console (I'd say it's premature to say it would be $600 - especially b/c MS can weather losses better than Sony, and they're well aware of the backlash of pricing a system that high). Anyway, if they integrate it and allow it to be used for games, they've alienated the just-shy-of-10-million people who currently own a 360, and shown that consumers can't rely on a 360 for the duration of its lifespan based on on the system itself, but the bureaucratic decisions of the company.

OTOH, if they merely integrate it as a movie player (just as likely), they have a system that's closer in price to the PS3, but gives Sony the size advantage because that storage can be used for the PS3 titles, but not the 360.

It's a major catch-22. Personally, I'd like a larger HDD for the 360 and that's about it. I don't see why HDMI is so bloomin' necessary, since the 360 *could* feasibly achieve 1080p over component (it does already for games, doesn't it?). Moreover, if they're committed to not using HD-DVD as a gaming format, it may not serve them well to integrate it (unless the end strategy is to create three-tiers of consoles for consumers to purchase from - yikes).[/quote]
Well spoken; I would think that this is something MS would want to put under their hat for the next generation of XBox. Right now their foot hold is still blossoming, to introduce new "standards" will send a rift through their market and possibly splinter the relationship not only with the "long term" owners (those that were able to get a console in the first six months) but also those of us who have just recently made the switch over.

I agree that a larger hard drive would be nice, but let's be realistic, the thing needs to be released at the SAME price the 20 GB is at now. I can't see where anyone will want to spend $200 on a 100 GB HDD ... I'll just clean mine off when it gets to capacity thank you.

As for the HD-DVD, if they want to make this a standard format they're going to NEED to drop the price of the add-on unit. Again, I spent $400 on my box already, I'm not ready to drop another $200 to play the newest games; they might as well call it a PC then.

Also, 1080P is achieveable and looks damn good from my understanding. A guy at work just got a 360 and a 56" 1080P DLP and all he could do is roll his eyes back when describing how beautiful the pciture was.

Finally, IMO, the one thing MS should be doing to get more people into the 360 ... SUPPORT KB/MOUSE!!! You have the USB ports and the ability to update the system, PLEASE add this support in, I can only image how sweet the FPSs would be.

There you go, my $.02 with a $.01 tip.
 
Seems like this is going to be the new trend...the Appleization of consoles. Release a new update every year or so with just enough new features to woo new buyers and get current owners to rebuy, but not enough new features to alienate those who purchased the now outdated version.

The PS3 and the Wii are getting the same treatment as well.

I don't think Microsoft is stupid enough to start using HD-DVD as their media of choice for games, however. As others have stated, forcing someone to buy the $200 HD-DVD drive just to play games in the future would not sit will with most 360 owners.

Microsoft has being very clear about the HD-DVD drive. They want it to be optional and they want it only for movies. Recent Microsoft comments about not wanting to force people to buy something (HD-DVD drive) that might become the next Betamax is a pretty good indication of what their stance is on the HD-DVD player.

"Betamax" comment linked: http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/360/microsoft-rep-says-hddvd-the-next-betamax-226205.php
 
[quote name='CrimsonPaw']I agree that a larger hard drive would be nice, but let's be realistic, the thing needs to be released at the SAME price the 20 GB is at now. I can't see where anyone will want to spend $200 on a 100 GB HDD ... I'll just clean mine off when it gets to capacity thank you.[/quote]

If they can drop the price of the 20GB to $50 (because let's face it: people can make due with the 20GB very easily), and sell the 100GB for $100 (I don't know if that's even reasonable for the size drive, really), they'll be in a nice spot - a fully functional 360 can be had for $350 (Core+20GB HDD), and people who really want to use the space can upgrade to the 100GB for the same cost as the old drives.
 
I think an integrated HD-DVD would work along lines of the Blu Ray drive in the PS3 with one difference. The drive can read both DVD and HD-DVD. Games would only come on DVD. HD-DVD would be for movies only.

MS might be able to do a software update to add HD-DVD game support a year later -- but I think printing DVDs is more cost effective than switching to HD-DVD games. Need more space? Use multiple discs or dump some uncompressed data to a bigger hard drive. Even if there were HD-DVD games, I don't think MS would leave us out to dry. It would be silly, but they could print games in two formats -- multiple DVDs and single HD-DVDs (like PC games during the CD --> DVD era).

360 games currently output at 1080p over component. My TV will tell me the resolution and it is 1920x1080. Technically, I think it is rendered in 1080i and upscaled to 1080p, so I'm not sure whether the system can render games in 1080p. The horsepower is probably there, but it might take some programming tricks.
 
This is exactly what I've been waiting for before buying a 360. That and the fact that I have a huge backlog of last-gen games.
 
[quote name='Indiana']Yeah but that didn't make the games look better or add High Def movies.[/quote]

Yes but it made my girls gone wild DVD's easier to watch
 
This is very, very funny to me. If this were Nintendo, most people would be lining up to pay full price for a new console just because it's: smaller, in color, a different color, different shape, different cartridge slot, front lit, back lit, has a pokemon sticker, etc. I'm not bashing anybody posting complaints about this, it's just highlighting the difference between Nintendo fans and other fans. Personally, I think it's shitty to re-release a console and expect the early adopters to pay full price, even though we are the reason the consoles are selling. It almost makes me feel as if we paid full price to beta test the hardware.
 
[quote name='Cormier6083']Too late. I already bought mine. Though built in HD-DVD would be very nice.



Umm... SCPH-5001 added built in IR[/quote]

Plus the network adaptor.
 
The lack of optical out makes me think that this is a fake. HDMI carries sound, but users need the ability to connect their surround sound system.
 
[quote name='peteloaf']It almost makes me feel as if we paid full price to beta test the hardware.[/quote]

Bingo.
 
[quote name='DCriminal']The lack of optical out makes me think that this is a fake. HDMI carries sound, but users need the ability to connect their surround sound system.[/QUOTE]

The proprietary top connection has an optical out on the end of the cable that connects to the system. Take a look at the current 360 HD cables -- that's how I have mine outputing 5.1.


Edit:
I think I see your point now. That doesn't solve the problem for people who bypass the receiver and run the HDMI straight to the TV. That's what I'd have to do because my receiver was from before the dawn of HDMI. Perhaps it's time to buy a new receiver, too...
 
This WOULD be total BS on Microsofts part. They better give me an upgraded system too. However, I'm perfectly happy with mine now. My TV that I have the 360 on does NOT have HDMI, so not a big deal. The HDD would be nice though and I have HD-DVD already.
 
[quote name='doubledown']This WOULD be total BS on Microsofts part. They better give me an upgraded system too. However, I'm perfectly happy with mine now. My TV that I have the 360 on does NOT have HDMI, so not a big deal. The HDD would be nice though and I have HD-DVD already.[/QUOTE]
How old is your TV?
 
[quote name='jmiller80']I think an integrated HD-DVD would work along lines of the Blu Ray drive in the PS3 with one difference. The drive can read both DVD and HD-DVD. Games would only come on DVD. HD-DVD would be for movies only.

MS might be able to do a software update to add HD-DVD game support a year later -- but I think printing DVDs is more cost effective than switching to HD-DVD games. Need more space? Use multiple discs or dump some uncompressed data to a bigger hard drive. Even if there were HD-DVD games, I don't think MS would leave us out to dry. It would be silly, but they could print games in two formats -- multiple DVDs and single HD-DVDs (like PC games during the CD --> DVD era).

360 games currently output at 1080p over component. My TV will tell me the resolution and it is 1920x1080. Technically, I think it is rendered in 1080i and upscaled to 1080p, so I'm not sure whether the system can render games in 1080p. The horsepower is probably there, but it might take some programming tricks.[/quote]

Integrated HD-DVD/DVD drive would not work. HD-DVD is still not the base format and still fighting a war with Blu-Ray. It would be costly and risky to integrate a HD-DVD/DVD drive into 360s.

1) the console would no longer be $400 because HD-DVD drives are not cheap to produce.
2) the drive will probably not be as fast as the current DVD drives in 360s right now.
3) printing games in two formats is suicide; regular DVD games would be $60. What should HD-DVD "enhanced" games price for? $70? $80? Absurd.

There is no problem with DVD storage. No developer has ever complained about DVD storage. In-Game graphics are so good now that CG and FMV are no longer needed. They simply use the same graphics engine to produce cutscenes. THere is no longer a need for multple-disc games. Gears of War is the first title to prove that. I would be very suprised if developers are even using 75% of DVD capacity at the moment.
 
[quote name='nintendokid']Integrated HD-DVD/DVD drive would not work. HD-DVD is still not the base format and still fighting a war with Blu-Ray. It would be costly and risky to integrate a HD-DVD/DVD drive into 360s.

1) the console would no longer be $400 because HD-DVD drives are not cheap to produce.
2) the drive will probably not be as fast as the current DVD drives in 360s right now.
3) printing games in two formats is suicide; regular DVD games would be $60. What should HD-DVD "enhanced" games price for? $70? $80? Absurd.

There is no problem with DVD storage. No developer has ever complained about DVD storage. In-Game graphics are so good now that CG and FMV are no longer needed. They simply use the same graphics engine to produce cutscenes. THere is no longer a need for multple-disc games. Gears of War is the first title to prove that. I would be very suprised if developers are even using 75% of DVD capacity at the moment.[/QUOTE]
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: What world do you live in?
 
I don't find HD that important seeing as I don't have an HDTV yet (on an xbox 360, but I'm planning on getting one sooner than the HDTV ) but I do support console longevity. One thing they need to add is the four rubber bumpers on ALL of the DVD drive lids. They were the things that were causing the problem with the 360 scratching game discs. Yeah you shouldn't be moving it in game, but come on people.

While they're in there, maybe they could come up with a better cooling system too. My only problem is if this will be exclusive to premiums and not cores. The core should be able to get just as much technical advancements as the premium, specifically if they promote console longevity.

And yes, 360 owners did get fucked, bad. Microsoft rushed the 360 and are now supposedly putting out a new better one? I know people would be pissed, especially if they last alot long than the old 360s. It is like you beta tested the 360, which sucks. balls. It's a good thing I didn't get one.

Oh and, uh...persoanally..seeing as not alot of people have HDTVs in the first place they should make making sure that the console lives more than it does now a top priority rather than putting in HDMI.
 
I just thought of something.... if this new 360 ditches the DVD tray and replaces it with a front loading slot like the Wii then I'm sold. IMAGINE A GREEN LED AROUND THE SLOT!!!!! HOLY SHIT THE NEXT NEXT GEN IS HERE!!!!! Woo hoo!!!!
 
I don't think that they're going to integrate the HD-DVD or a new bigger Hard Drive. They will probably just add the HDMI port and the new chipset and still sell it for the same price that way nobody loses.
 
It figures...I just bought a 360. I was at first holding out for a newer model but I did get a free 1-year Product Replacement Plan from Gamestop so if it goes maybe I would get the new upgrade. Honestly though I am happy with the system and I don't really see these enhancements effecting me so I'm not too worried about it. I would see the need for a smaller, quieter, and more efficent XBOX360 (2) down the line but it doesn't look like they will take that approach if they add more to the system. As long as I can play the new games that come out I'm cool.
 
[quote name='anomynous']:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: What world do you live in?[/quote]

A world in which RPGs have stayed the same-length as 10 years ago. A world in which we almost no longer see CG cutscenes as these take much man power, storage, and money, which could be used in other areas of game production. A world in which we work with what we have. A world in which the Nintendo DS, a cartridge (HEAVEN FORBID?! Cartridge with paltry storage?) system sells like hotcakes. A world in which smartasses like you give cocky one sentence comments which make no argument whatsoever. A world in which people are smart enough to be able to -right- "anonymous" :rofl:
 
The revised xbox360 will have 1. a cooler processor, 2. a bigger hard drive, 3. probably have HDMI. 3.
It will not have 4. HD-DVD built in. And games will not be made in HD-DVD.

Reasons.
1. It runs too hot. We know it. They know it. Strictly for more reliability they will do it.
2. Now that they have started music, tv and movie downloads a 20gb drive is not going to come close to cutting it. Hard drive prices are so cheap the cost difference to include a larger drive would be small.
3. I say probably, because everyone wants it to have it, and it is becoming standard on all the new HDTVs. The question is how much it would cost to modify the board to include this. If it doesn't cost too much they will do it, cost too much they won't.

And 4. They won't include HD-DVD because it would be too expensive. They are at a good price point with Sony right now and they know it. Nobody really cares about HD-DVD or Blue-Ray yet. It's true. Also because modifications 1-3 might piss current owners off, but not that much. Including an HD-DVD would make them furious.
And they definitely would never make HD-DVD games. They have 4 million+ units out there now- they are not gong to say "sorry you can't play the new HD-DVD games". And no publisher is going to cut 4 million possible purchasers out. It is the same reason a hard drive is not required for any game.

If anything my guess is that they will eventually get rid of the core unit.
One with a small HD will be the core. And then one with a bigger HD and maybe HDMI( or the HD-DVD bundled- I doubt it) wold become the new premium.
 
[quote name='Indiana']Well if this is true I want my money back for my 360. This new system better cost more than $399 otherwise I feel like MS sold me up the river. What the hell ever happened to a console is a console. Sure there were like 7 versions of the PS2 but they never ADDED new stuff to the console to make it better, if I can't do 1080p on this version of the console but it will be possible on that version then they need to accept the systems for exchange.[/quote]

Uh, actually they did. Later down the line, the PS2 outputed DVD playback in 480 progressive while the early/launch PS2 only did 480i. Not much of an upgrade unless you had an HDTV and component cables for the thing.

Anyway, I hope MS does do this, this will justify them keeping the price at the $300 or $400 range against the PS3 and not have to do a price drop to spur sales.
 
[quote name='nintendokid']A world in which RPGs have stayed the same-length as 10 years ago. A world in which we almost no longer see CG cutscenes as these take much man power, storage, and money, which could be used in other areas of game production. A world in which we work with what we have. A world in which the Nintendo DS, a cartridge (HEAVEN FORBID?! Cartridge with paltry storage?) system sells like hotcakes. A world in which smartasses like you give cocky one sentence comments which make no argument whatsoever. A world in which people are smart enough to be able to -right- "anonymous" :rofl:[/QUOTE]
Ahem. Nearly every developer out there has complained about DVD's storage space. The Ninja Gaiden guy, Itaki or what ever his name is, has complained about DVD's storage space, especially for DoA4. All the Sony 2nd parties and 1st parties complain about DVD's storage. EA has complained about DVD storage space. Bethsheda has complained about DVD storage space. And my user name is the same as my gamertag, because when I tried for anonymous on XBL, it wasnt available. You are wrong. Developers have complained about storage space. :rofl: at you
 
I'm not completly sure what the big deal here is personally..

The slim PS2 had built in IR, and network adaptor. It was also smaller and less prone to the same kinds of defects as the original while costing the same amount.

I don't really see a difference, it's not a company trying to 'screw you', or offend their consumers by delivering a better product -- it's a hardware revision thats an IMPROVEMENT.

I personally would rather have a company incrementally improve the product (bigger HDD, new input types), as opposed to keeping it artificially in the past to keep everything 'equal' .. a 20 gig HD is already a bit on the small side, in three years, it will be flat out tiny. In a year or two, HDMI may be the norm.

I just picked up my Xbox 360 a month ago, so I could theoretically understand a bit of frustration if you had JUST bought it yesterday, and this came out tomorrow -- but by the time this thing theoretically comes out, I will most likely have my machine for another six months or a year.. To me, it's worth having the 360 now, and when I inevitably HAVE to buy a different one (when it's most likely a lot cheaper), I can get the updated unit then.

edit: took out a reduntant 'smaller' in the 1st paragraph
 
I wouldn't flip out too much yet. We've seen "evidence" of a 360 with an included HDMI port (including photos) in the past. This time the rumor has a bit more juice behind it thanks to the mysterious "new chipset" that will be coming soon/spring/summer/fall/2007/whatever, but I'm not ready to bite yet.

I bet before the day is out someone from MS will deny this and call it bogus. Whether they are lying or not is another story.


We'll also find out whether they blatantly lied regarding the 360's HDMI capabilities in the first place. I have no problem paying an extra 10 or 20 bucks for an HDMI adapter/cable for the 360, since I've had the thing for almost a year now. However, if they have it ONLY available on the new console, then we have a problem. While I suppose it's an arguable point, I'd wager (and hope people would be smart enough to realize) that an HDMI port is a bigger deal than an IR add-on like the updated PS2 had.


Somewhat off-topic, the new Sharp LCDs coming out supposedly this month have a DVI-I port, so perhaps my prayers of a high quality, affordable LCD TV that can pull off the 360's asinine bend-over-backwards requirements for 1080p/upconverting DVD will finally come true. A VGA-to-DVI adapter technically should (I'm crossing the fingers) work with it, as Sharp's most recent sets have accepted 1080p via analog and digital inputs in the past.
 
Is this engadget site a credible source? We all know there is a new chip coming out, but all this? Seems to be more of a photshop prank more than anything. How come none of the other bigger sites, IGN, teamxbox and other haven't jumped all over this news?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']???[/QUOTE]

Costco pretty much lets you return anything for any reason up to 3 years after purchase. I'm guessing he will just tell them his is broken and when they replace it he will get the new one. (Assuming the new one has the same SKU)
 
Relax ppl.. this things a rumor and if it wasn't your not seeing this for atleast another year or so.. thats when most hardware revisions take place anyhow. And big deal it has HDMI.. i dont even have a 1080p set. And i doubt most of you ppl do either.
 
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