Xbox2 will not have a Hard Drive?

That sucks. I had heard rumors of this for a while now.

I'll miss being able to use my own music. And I'll hate having to buy memory cards.

Edit: Note that the guy in the article doesn't work for MS, only the company that will be making the flash memory. At least, if he hasn't pissed MS off by revealing all this.
 
Yeh this definitely is a step backwards for MS. I don't think I'll be buying an XB2 whenever it comes out. By then the PSP will supply all my gaming needs
 
"What is flash memory?"

Its just a memory card like what GameCube uses.

The XBox hard drive is mainly used to pirate games so there really is no reason to keep it for XBox 2.
 
oh, well that stinks

that was one of my favorite features about the xbox, not having to use costly memory card space
 
The last part of the article suggests that the next Xbox might not get the shaft in memory cards like the Gamecube did. It says this company can produce flash memory units that hold up to 40+ GB. I doubt we'll see units with that much capacity, but maybe one card/unit will be enough for the average gamer.
 
What has me concerned is what this story implies about the functionality of the next Xbox. If there is not going to be a hard drive then there will be no way for the console to act as a DVR like Tivo, something that I could live without but I don't want six different boxes in my entertainment center. Sony has already tipped their hand in this regard with the release of the PSX and I appauld them for their foresight in giving the consumer the option to have a one-box-that-does-it-all, even if they did rush it out the door and require firmware updates.
It was long thought that MS would use the first Xbox to sneak into the living room and then introduce the Xbox 2 as the must have consumer device that does it all. Without the hard drive I find it hard to believe. Who knows maybe they have great plans. Xbox live is already broadband only and if MS developed the technology and signed all the right papers they could cut deals to have an online music library (or anything else for that matter) that streamed to your Xbox as you were playing, although I don't like that idea.
If nothing else we will all find out something during E3.
 
I think we have a bit of sensationlism from the media (or I guess you could say a bit of hype mongering from M-System's CEO)

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html

When contacted by GameSpot, Xbox group product manager David Hufford said Moran was "talking way over his head." He continued, "Mr. Moran is aimlessly speculating, and we never comment on speculation. We've made no such announcements about future Xbox products and services. And we don't intend to for quite a while. Until we do, we suggest people take guesswork for what it is."
Click to expand...

MS stated a month+ ago that they would only put in a HDD if Sony put a HDD in the PS3, they haven't officially changed that stance as far as I can tell from that quote. Of course the head of the company that makes the flash discs would love to have his discs be THE storage medium for the X2 (not just a secondary portable storage solution), that means serious coin for this company.

Personally I'm hoping Sony goes with a HDD in the PS3 and MS decides they have no choice and puts one in the next Xbox as well. Either that or these large flash discs really will be large/good (and cheap) enough to act as a HDD replacement. Kind of doubt they will be packed in the box with the console...
 
[quote name='wubb']I think we have a bit of sensationlism from the media (or I guess you could say a bit of hype mongering from M-System's CEO)

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html

When contacted by GameSpot, Xbox group product manager David Hufford said Moran was "talking way over his head." He continued, "Mr. Moran is aimlessly speculating, and we never comment on speculation. We've made no such announcements about future Xbox products and services. And we don't intend to for quite a while. Until we do, we suggest people take guesswork for what it is."
Click to expand...

MS stated a month+ ago that they would only put in a HDD if Sony put a HDD in the PS3, they haven't officially changed that stance as far as I can tell from that quote. Of course the head of the company that makes the flash discs would love to have his discs be THE storage medium for the X2 (not just a secondary portable storage solution), that means serious coin for this company.

Personally I'm hoping Sony goes with a HDD in the PS3 and MS decides they have no choice and puts one in the next Xbox as well. Either that or these large flash discs really will be large/good (and cheap) enough to act as a HDD replacement. Kind of doubt they will be packed in the box with the console...[/quote]

They will not be large and cheap. You will be paying $40 for 64 megs! Probably $60 for 128 MB. If they do not include the flash memory in the box and there is no hard drive that means I have to buy memory cards! This drives up my cost as a user and makes this product no different than the Gamecube and PS2.

I expect one company will deliver either a hard drive and that company will have the advantage in the next round.

Of course if Microsoft can delive the Xbox 2 with no hard drive for $99 I will buy it!!!! But at $300 without a hard drive? I'll wait for the PS3 so the price war can begin!
 
I'm betting the majority of Xbox owners DO NOT use the system for pirating or Linux, but for regular gaming use and XBL. Taking out the HD functionality does stop the copying of games to the HD, but also eliminates the positives of not needing memory cards... being able to rip your own music for listening in-game, convenient saving, faster loading and more complex graphics (cache to HD) not to mention downloadable updates and software. To me the Xbox Next/2 seems like a step backwards, and a slap in the face. Of course its not really fair to judge until we get some real specs and games, but until then my opinions not going to change =/
 
[quote name='magilacudy']being able to rip your own music for listening in-game, convenient saving, faster loading and more complex graphics (cache to HD) not to mention downloadable updates and software[/quote]

See, with the flash "discs" as they're calling them, I don't see this being a problem...if the cost of say, a 10GB flash "disc" is less than the cost of a hard drive, with the added benefit of no moving parts, it *may* actually be a better alternative. For the person who quoted current thumbdrive prices being what we'll pay when the time comes, you're sorely mistaken. As technology such as flash memory becomes more and more common and more easily mass produced, the price will plummet. By the time the Xbox next is ready for market, the pricing will adjust.

However, as far as ripping your own in-game music, how many games actually use this? I know out of 30+ Xbox games I own, I think only maybe 5 or 6 actually support this feature. I wouldn't miss it. As for saving and updates, if the internal flash memory was even a GB or two, that'd be more than sufficient for most of that.

People are also upset at the "compatibility" issue of flash memory. Anyone who has a USB/Pen/Key/Flash drive knows that the PC treats it as just another "disc." My friend can bring his over, and when it's connected my computer sees it as the (E:) drive. I don't see why the Xbox Next wouldn't function in a similar manner. With the proper internal usage, the "caching" function of the previous generation Xbox can be maintained. It's the architecture of the CPU and GPU that will be the primary issue in compatibility.
 
The music ripping makes the Xbox versions of certain multiplatform games more desireable to me. Games like Tony Hawk and a lot of the racing games, for example.

I'd miss that feature, but it wouldn't make me want the next console any less.
 
the ability to put my own music in alot of my games is huge, it makes Tony Hawk that much better, otherwise I'd get sick of it quicker hearing the same songs over and over

It's true the feature is only in a handful of games, but it's the 2nd largest benefit that makes me get games for the xbox over the other consoles.
 
WSB. Most of the functionality could be maintained depending on the size, and if Microsoft is tipping thier hand so early, they must be able to at least produce one that is of a size that would even be usable for them.

The only really negative thing that comes out of this is that the XBox2 is now very unlikely to be backwards compatable... it's very likely the methods of writing to disk would be different between the two media. (unless the Xbox OS is more robust than I think it is)
 
See, with the flash "discs" as they're calling them, I don't see this being a problem...if the cost of say, a 10GB flash "disc" is less than the cost of a hard drive, with the added benefit of no moving parts, it *may* actually be a better alternative. For the person who quoted current thumbdrive prices being what we'll pay when the time comes, you're sorely mistaken. /quote

If the new flash memory is built into the box yes it will be cheaper. If they are selling them to consumers for purchase you are not going to be able to purchase the flash memory for cheap. If Microsoft's goal is to make a profit on the hardware this time around we are going to pay much more for the box or it has to be stripped down.
 
The mantra of every hardware company that's made it has been "get the hardware to the consumer, even at a loss, then make your money on software licensing." MS just has to get the cost down enough so they aren't taking too big of a bath when they sell the new machine at $300 at launch. (note, $300 is just a wild guess)

Regardless, reading this article again makes me think that MS could just call off any deal with this company, since this guy has been throwing all sorts of details out that should probably remain secret for another year at least.
 
I feel sorry for anyone who owns an xbox and doesn't use custom soundtracks. Custom soundtracks is one of the big selling points that got me to buy my xbox.
 
I have more songs on my XBOX than I do on my computer. I sat there and copied probably 25 of my CDs onto the thing, and named 'em all too. For comparison, I have about 200 mp3s on my comp.
It took a while, but it was worth it. It's nice being able to integrate some good music into your game.
 
I love this news. Those X Box elitists who kept flaunting their hard drive as one of the reasons X Box was so.. 'advanced'. What.. now?

Custom soundtracks are neat features, downloadable content's nifty, this is certain. Sure, it sucks to lose features like that but.. - I just enjoy the smack-back it gives the elitists.
 
i know microsoft is pushing online gaming so i still believe they will have a hard drive though as an option down the line. this way it will make more money selling the harddrive seperate as people would want to buy it so they can download contents for games.
 
That statement was made by M Systems CEO and it is all speculation. Many gaming sites have already gone to M$ and they have said that this man is talking way over his head. So nothing is official and this DOES NOT mean that there will be no HD.
 
Many sites including Firingsquad are reporting that there will DEFINITELY be no hd in the Xb2. However its still vaporware so who knows what the final product will be.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']The only really negative thing that comes out of this is that the XBox2 is now very unlikely to be backwards compatable... [/quote]

Thant's what I was thinking. If it's not backwards compatible, i'm not going to get it.
 
[quote name='bfg9k']Thant's what I was thinking. If it's not backwards compatible, i'm not going to get it.[/quote]

That's rather silly reasoning.
 
[quote name='WhipSmartBanky'][quote name='bfg9k']Thant's what I was thinking. If it's not backwards compatible, i'm not going to get it.[/quote]

That's rather silly reasoning.[/quote]

Actually, backwards compatability on any system is a VERY, VERY important feature.
 
Yeh... that's why selling PSX games is still more or less profitable because you can still play them on the PS2.

Also, don't you feel a little warm and tingly inside imagining these current XBox games with DX9 graphics and antialiasing and other good stuff upcoming with XB2... *drool*
 
If the only deciding factor for purchasing a next generation system is whether it plays the preceding hardware's games...that is rather silly reasoning.

I'm not against backward compatibility as a nice bonus. As long as it doesn't bottleneck the CPU architecture or otherwise hinder it, I'm all for it. But I'm not going to be dissuaded if it's not a standard feature. The new games made for it will decide for me if and when I get any next generation system.

Besides, even if it were backward compatible, I doubt I'd toss my current system.
 
[quote name='Scrubking'][quote name='WhipSmartBanky'][quote name='bfg9k']Thant's what I was thinking. If it's not backwards compatible, i'm not going to get it.[/quote]

That's rather silly reasoning.[/quote]

Actually, backwards compatability on any system is a VERY, VERY important feature.[/quote]

People keep talking about Backwards compatibility and I just don't see that as being a make or break issue. If you already have the other game system then who cares? People bought a Playstation even though it would not play any other media. People bought the Gamecube and Xbox when they could not play anything else. The PS2 was successful because their name is already out there and they were first to market on this generation. I do not believe that backwards compatibility makes all the much difference. I will buy the next generation systems because I love gaming not because it can play OLD games. I want it to play NEW games... that why I bought it.
 
Why are you all saying a no hard drive is a bad thing???? Flash memory is fast, has no moving parts, and in a year, will be dirt cheap. This is a win win all around.MS could use their clout and get 4gb compact flash cards for $100 or less right now. It will be even cheaper and bigger in a year. Do you really think current xbox games will look better on the xbox2? I doubt it. Do ps1 games look better ona ps2? NO. Backwards compatability is a huge deal. Why would you want more systems taking up space. What if the xbox1 breaks? Then what are you gonna but another one?
 
No hard drive = likely no business from me.

The XBox hard drive is probably the main reason I didn't buy a PS2. Since MS is taking this wussy "wait and see" attitude in regards to what they are going to do to compete with the PS3, they seem to have lost a lot of their drive. I don't know if one of the guys who left the XBox team (Ed Fries, Seamus Blackley) took all the innovation with them when they left or not, but something needs to change.

I never bought a PS2 and probably never will, but I'll be more than happy to pick up a PS3 if the XBox 2 doesn't at least live up to the first one.

I'll save my judgement until we hear more, but right now it doesn't look good.

[quote name='BigNick']Do you really think current xbox games will look better on the xbox2? I doubt it. Do ps1 games look better ona ps2? NO. [/quote]

Yes.

[quote name='Indiana']People keep talking about Backwards compatibility and I just don't see that as being a make or break issue. If you already have the other game system then who cares?[/quote]

Ah, but you're missing the biggest incentive for people who DON'T have the previous system. I own a PS1 but not a PS2, and if the PS3 has backwards compatibility with both it will be a HUGE draw for me to pick one up. You're getting basically three systems for the price of one.

People don't want a ton of systems hooked up to their TV. They want one or two.

Backwards compatibility is a must.
 
[quote name='Indiana']
People keep talking about Backwards compatibility and I just don't see that as being a make or break issue. If you already have the other game system then who cares? People bought a Playstation even though it would not play any other media. People bought the Gamecube and Xbox when they could not play anything else. The PS2 was successful because their name is already out there and they were first to market on this generation. I do not believe that backwards compatibility makes all the much difference. I will buy the next generation systems because I love gaming not because it can play OLD games. I want it to play NEW games... that why I bought it.[/quote]

Backwards compatability means you can get rid of your old system, sell it, give it to a realtive, whatever but the main thing is it's not wasting room in your home anymore while allowing you to still play the games... strangly enough I'd think xbx owners would love to not have the original still taking up space in their homes when the second arrives... :wink:

Truth be told the only reason i havnt dumped my old PS is because I had it modded to play Japanese games and I sure as heck am not risking t PS2 mod.
 
[quote name='"Alpha2"'][quote name='Indiana']
Backwards compatability means you can get rid of your old system, sell it, give it to a realtive, whatever but the main thing is it's not wasting room in your home anymore while allowing you to still play the games... strangly enough I'd think xbx owners would love to not have the original still taking up space in their homes when the second arrives... :wink:

Truth be told the only reason i havnt dumped my old PS is because I had it modded to play Japanese games and I sure as heck am not risking t PS2 mod.[/quote]

Hello yeah! I gave my old PS1 to my girlfriend and now I have a fellow gamer...who I do it with. She's much better than my friend Ray.
 
[quote name='magilacudy']Also, don't you feel a little warm and tingly inside imagining these current XBox games with DX9 graphics and antialiasing and other good stuff upcoming with XB2... *drool*[/quote]

I couldn't care less about graphics.
 
I am totally 100% into the whole backwards compatible thing. Simply because, since it happened it's almost like a MUST to continue with. The Gameboy is so successful because if you have been playing Gameboy since when it came out in the 80's.. chances are you have alot of games!

With each generation, the bar must be raised. Sure you really can't compare a Gameboy with the console systems, but because that PS2 was the first system to do this, it should continue. Just like Xbox was the first system with a harddrive, it should continue. N64 (Im pretty sure it was N64) was the first system to have 4 controller ports. Now, that's a must. I never knew why Sony didn't add that to the PS2. So with the next round of consoles, they should all do what they have done in the past and then add something new. Graphics and sound are nice and yeah..but I want new and different features. If PS3 doesn't have 4 controller ports.. why? Why wouldn't it? They have no reason to not add it.

But in regards to some other posts in here someone said like Gamecube didn't have backwards compatibility, but people still bought it. But um, Gamecube is the first Nintendo console with mini DVDs. Everthing else has been cartridge.

However, one thing I'm not certain of is that.. even if they DO let us play our Xbox games on the Xbox2..not all games save onto the memory card. So how would we transfer our games over to the new Xbox? Unless their new memory cards pretty much allow ALL xbox games to save on them.. But yeah.. that's it.

If all 3 systems come out roughly the same time, I'll have to see which offers the best specs and who raised the bar a little bit. Though, if they all come out 5-6 months apart.. I'll just pick them up one by one ^_^
Well.. Maybe.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot'] Since MS is taking this wussy "wait and see" attitude in regards to what they are going to do to compete with the PS3, they seem to have lost a lot of their drive.[/quote]

Microsoft is in a position that they HAVE to wait. Sony has had the upper hand for two generations and people will buy the PS3 just based on name and reputation alone. Microsoft doesn't have that advantage in gaming. Microsoft must come out of the gate with the better hardware platform for Xbox Next that can do everything the PS3 can do and do it better, if not more.

[quote name='KaneRobot'][quote name='BigNick']Do you really think current xbox games will look better on the xbox2? I doubt it. Do ps1 games look better ona ps2? NO. [/quote]

Yes.[/quote]

Not by default. You have to turn on the smooth rendering, and sometimes that can cause performance issues.
 
Having your own music on the hd is a plus, but the problem is not enough games support it. I have one game that supports it and i think its a great feature.
 
People keep talking about Backwards compatibility and I just don't see that as being a make or break issue. If you already have the other game system then who cares? People bought a Playstation even though it would not play any other media. People bought the Gamecube and Xbox when they could not play anything else. The PS2 was successful because their name is already out there and they were first to market on this generation. I do not believe that backwards compatibility makes all the much difference. I will buy the next generation systems because I love gaming not because it can play OLD games. I want it to play NEW games... that why I bought it.
Click to expand...

I see your point and it's a very valid one. However, I still think backwards compatibility is very important. It's true we buy systems like Gamecube and Xbox when they don't have it, but that's because they can't. Lemme put it this way, if the Gamecube came with a special attachment allowing you to play all previous nintendo cartridge games it probably would sell a lot more. Granted this probably isn't physically possible but it's just an example. Systems get old and breakdown, my Xbox won't last forever but when that hardware goes, I'd still like to be able to play my games. Besides, Sony has already stated they will backwards compatibility for the PS3 so why wouldn't MS want to keep up with the competition.
 
[quote name='WhipSmartBanky']

Microsoft is in a position that they HAVE to wait. Sony has had the upper hand for two generations and people will buy the PS3 just based on name and reputation alone. Microsoft doesn't have that advantage in gaming. Microsoft must come out of the gate with the better hardware platform for Xbox Next that can do everything the PS3 can do and do it better, if not more.[/quote]

I disagree. They obviously had to wait and see on the last system - at that time no one had heard of the Xbox outside of the hardcore fans who follow this kind of stuff. The general public's introduction to the XBox was about a month before launch when all those weird glowing X commercials were being shown on TV. MS had to be careful since they hadn't even really tested the waters before they just dove in at the deep end right off the bat.

This time is different. XBox has a fanbase with the general public now, and people are going to buy it regardless of how "powerful" the system is compared to the PS3. Most regular people have zero idea of how fast the processors in each will be, or who is making their graphics card, whatever. If the XBox 2 has Halo 3 and PS3 has GTA 6 (or whatever), people will buy it. Microsoft would have to be totally ignorant - and they are not - to think they were going to overtake Sony any time soon. This is something that is going to take a long, long time if they manage to do it.

The irony here is, part of the reason the XBox caught on is because they did stuff with the system no one had thought to do before. Playing wait-and-see just ain't the attitude I've come to expect from the XBox.
 
More fuel for the speculation:

http://www.xboxaddict.com/news/view.php?News_ID=4511

Here's the text of the article for the lazy:

100MB/sec Flash Disk On Xbox 2?
Posted by: Nguyen on Thursday, March 11th, 2004
Type: Rumor
Source: http://www.theinquirer.net/

M-Systems, which has a deal to provide technology for the Xbox 2, said today it has released a 2.5-inch ultra ATA 90GB solid state drive that can transfer data at 100MB/sec burst rate. In sustained read/write rates it delivers 40MB/sec.

The ATA-6 flash disk supports Ultra DMA 5 transfer modes, and will work at high altitudes, as well as in industrial and military applications.

The device is intended as a drop in replacement for ATA and SCSI mechanical hard drives. It complies with a number of military standards from the DoD, the NSA, the USAF, the US Army and the US Navy.

The products are already available, M-Systems said.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='PsyClerk']That 90GB flash drive also probably costs what we in the business call a 'crapload' of money.[/quote]

If the Xbox is out in 2005-2007, that's an eternity in computer hardware terms. This technology will be cheaper by then, especially when it's mass produced on the video game console level.
 
Yea, Flash drives are dropping in prices pretty quick, like WSB said by the time the new hardware is out the drives will be pretty cheap.
 
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