Your opinion on online college degrees, please

S

steve_k

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I graduated from a traditional brick-and-mortar university and do not acknowledge the credentials of an online college degree. My rationale for this is:

1. Online courses do to teach students to interact with other people (no face-to-face contact)

2. Online coursework does not guarantee a student does not have an open textbook while completing work

3. Math courses are far more difficult to teach and learn online

4. In a traditional university, a student must be ready by the time class starts. In an online degree, a student can usually take an exam whenever that student pleases considering it is prior to the due date.

5. Online classes do not allow group activities and ease of communication

6. A student may or may not receive an e-mail response from the instructor regarding a question or issue. A traditional course allows a student to speak to the instructor in person and allows him to develop a relationship with the professor.

7. The concept of an online degree is equivalent to completing a degree by reading and studying textbooks alone. Classroom techniques used in traditional colleges and universities have been established for specific reasons.

8. If you are disconnected from the internet while taking an exam for an online course, you're screwed. I frequently get the 'this page cannot be displayed' screen for no apparent reason under Windows Vista.

If I was a hiring manager and had two candidates for a job who had equal skills, but one candidate had an online degree while the other had a degree from a traditional university, I would choose the person with a traditional college degree.

I admit I am biased towards traditional degrees and do not agree with the concept of an online degree. Please tell me how I am right or wrong regarding the statements I have made above. I have only completed one online course and feel the quality of that course was far inferrior to a standard classroom setting strictly becuase of the fact it was offered online.

Feel free tell me how right or wrong I am.
 
As a professor, I agree with you in general.

I don't put much stock in online degrees or online courses.

A lot of the college experience is having a chance to learn directly from professors (who if you're at a decent university should be experts in their fields) as well as interact with other students in the classroom, on group projects etc.

I'm sure some people can do fine and learn a lot from an online course as some are just self driven and are good and self-learning. But as a whole I'm just not a fan of the concept and I don't think I'd have learned nearly as much or be as well rounded if I'd done the online route for any of my degrees (Bachelors, Master's and Ph. D).
 
What are y'all's opinions on things like MIT's Open Courseware? I've used it in the past, and it's absolutely wonderful.

Hell, in the next few weeks, I'm going to watch their lectures for two of what I anticipate will be my more difficult courses this upcoming semester in order to be better prepared and to have seen the material before I'm getting a grade for it.

It's not the same as what you're referring to, OP, in that they don't hand out degrees, but there is a TON to be learned from it.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']What are y'all's opinions on things like MIT's Open Courseware? I've used it in the past, and it's absolutely wonderful.

Hell, in the next few weeks, I'm going to watch their lectures for two of what I anticipate will be my more difficult courses this upcoming semester in order to be better prepared and to have seen the material before I'm getting a grade for it.

It's not the same as what you're referring to, OP, in that they don't hand out degrees, but there is a TON to be learned from it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not familiar with MIT's 'Open Courseware', but I'm sure any program offered through MIT must be superior to most online universities normally advertised on daytime television (University of Phoenix for example). However, I am not convinced this 'open courseware' program will be immune to the points I highlighted in my original post. Although the 'open courseware' program may be absolutely wonderful, I'm sure a traditional classroom environment in a course at MIT is even more wonderful. Having a live discussion with someone in person just isn't the same as sending e-mails back and forth or having an online Instant Message (IM) conversation.
 
They film their professors and put the lecture videos online for free, with homework (possibly answers; I can't remember), notes for the day (if the professor provides them), and they cover a massive number of topics.

It's just as legitimate as going to an actual university. I've taken classes where I've never said a single word to the professor, where I've never needed office hours, and where I've never spoken to any of the 100 other assholes in class. How's that any different than what Open Courseware offers?

It might not be a total replacement (and like I said, they don't offer degrees), but it's a fantastic supplement (and it's nearly equal to being in a class).
 
Online Class seems like a good idea with certain subjects like Computers and technology but not other subjects like Psychology, etc.
 
I think those type of things are find (since they don't give out degrees).

It's a good way to make the material available the the public--which is good especially if it's a public university since professor's salaries are being paid partly with tax payer funding (as well as tuition, overhead on grants and all the other ways Universities bring in money).

And like I said, some people are good self learners and can get a lot from it--and tend to be the kid who do well despite never talking in class, never speaking to the professor etc. Though I think those kids get less out of college than the kids who are equally smart and do make the extra effort to participate.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']They film their professors and put the lecture videos online for free, with homework (possibly answers; I can't remember), notes for the day (if the professor provides them), and they cover a massive number of topics.

It's just as legitimate as going to an actual university. I've taken classes where I've never said a single word to the professor, where I've never needed office hours, and where I've never spoken to any of the 100 other assholes in class. How's that any different than what Open Courseware offers?

It might not be a total replacement (and like I said, they don't offer degrees), but it's a fantastic supplement (and it's nearly equal to being in a class).[/QUOTE]


That would be a fantastic supplement, however it would not a total replacement (as you have already established). Online supplements are fine in my opinion. I just don't agree with degree programs that are purely online.

Is this service available for free to anyone, or is it a free resource to current students only? If it's something I have access to for free, I'll spend some time with it.
 
I'd agree with that. The person who just sits there isn't any better than an online course with video lectures. But I think a lot of online degree programs don't have that though. It's just basically a syllabus with reading assignments, maybe some homework/papers and exam dates and the student does everything on their own. Those I don't support. But I've not looked into many lately, so maybe more have audio or video lecture downloads now.

But yeah, the student who just sits there and doesn't participate isn't getting much of anything out of the experience. Brilliant or not, they're missing the social interaction skills (and networking) needed to be successful in most careers (and life in general).
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']I just get the impression you'regiving the idea of sitting in a chair in an auditorium inherent value, steve, when it's really up to the student to take advantage of being there. Not doing so makes their situation nearly identical to taking online courses.

And Open Courseware is free for everyone: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm[/QUOTE]

It's about the ease of participation with your professor, classmates, and lectures. If someone goes to class every day and shows no enthusiam or just doesn't try or even care, that student will be far worse off than the student who takes an online degree plan and gives it a full effort.

I'm just saying that IN GENERAL, a traditional degree is better than an online degree. Of course, there are exceptions, but considering all other factors remain constant, a traditional degree is superior to an online degree IN MY OPINION. I could be entirely wrong. That's why I posted. You can't learn anything if you don't ask questions. I could take an online degree program to learn for myself, but that would not be very practical in this instance.
 
[quote name='steve_k']It's about the ease of participation with your professor, classmates, and lectures. If someone goes to class every day and shows no enthusiam or just doesn't try or even care, that student will be far worse off than the student who takes an online degree plan and gives it a full effort.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

The student who gives full effort in a class room (participates in discussion, talks to classmates, talks to the professor) along with full effort in the reading and homeworks and studying etc. will be better off than the person who puts full effort into an online course since they have no personal interaction with the professor or classmates.

That's the inherent difference in the two IMO. Trying to compare to the student who half asses it in a real class is muddying the comparison IMO.
 
I'm gonna argue w/ you on this one. First let me state that I have my Masters from Rice University in Computer Science. I'm a contract programmer part time and full time Professor at the local university.

I graduated from a traditional brick-and-mortar university and do not acknowledge the credentials of an online college degree. My rationale for this is:
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Schools like MIT w/ their Open Courseware, Fullsail, SMU, TCTA Waco do offer legit degrees. It depends on the school. I recently met a man working on his doctorate and had finished a masters degree in 2 years. He went to some school in Arizona, yeah that was a BS I bought my degree place. Discrediting a legit school's degree would be like me saying hey I graduated from Rice University and you went to Houston Community College so your not as smart as me. Doing the proper research into the school would be the smart move.

1. Online courses do to teach students to interact with other people (no face-to-face contact)
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True, but they do teach another form of social skill. They teach student how to interact properly w/ one another via another means other than face to face. I do contract work during the summer and all communication w/ clients is via telephone or e-mail. Sometimes web cam meetings. Learning proper skills w/ this type of communication is just as important. Most students will type short hand, or txt type instead of using proper grammer.

2. Online coursework does not guarantee a student does not have an open textbook while completing work
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I don't use textbooks in my classes. I use different resource sights on the internet and make my students take notes. Books are over priced and a load of shit IMO. A book is good for theory and well that's it, the majority of their hands on stuff is babyish. They tell you all the steps and you just follow them like connect the dots.

3. Math courses are far more difficult to teach and learn online
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Agreed, but if a school is any good and the Professor/Instructor is good they will have ways to help you out. I use a program called Tegrity and it will record a lesson for me so a student can watch everything I do step-by-step.

4. In a traditional university, a student must be ready by the time class starts. In an online degree, a student can usually take an exam whenever that student pleases considering it is prior to the due date.
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I've seen students show up late and leave early in person, I've also seen online classes where the student must login to the class site for a lesson at set times. I don't do my test in class, student must go to the testing center by a set date for their test. All schools have a testing center and all it takes is a quick phone call to another school and you can make out of state students show up at that testing center.

5. Online classes do not allow group activities and ease of communication
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Phone, IM, e-mail, FTP, ventrilo or something on that lines. It all depends on the student. Some groups have no problem w/ this others do. It's usually one jerk who ruins it all. This also happens in person. You have a group project and one person decides to not show up and do their share of the work.

6. A student may or may not receive an e-mail response from the instructor regarding a question or issue. A traditional course allows a student to speak to the instructor in person and allows him to develop a relationship with the professor.
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Most schools use Blackboard or something similar. I use that in my classes and e-mails never fail. All online communication takes place in that program. It tells me when a student reads an e-mail. When they last logged in, what pages they view. It also informs the student that they have work due, when they have test dates, that they have e-mail. Most e-mail address's that I've ever seen from students are their spam boxes. Schools have software they can use to fix problems like you state.


7. The concept of an online degree is equivalent to completing a degree by reading and studying textbooks alone. Classroom techniques used in traditional colleges and universities have been established for specific reasons.
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Those techniques while good for some are not suited for others. I had a job as a lead programmer before I ever had a degree. I self taught myself the majority or stuff I know. Taking those proven techniques and adapting them correctly for online students is not an easy task, but it can be done.

8. If you are disconnected from the internet while taking an exam for an online course, you're screwed. I frequently get the 'this page cannot be displayed' screen for no apparent reason under Windows Vista.
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Yeah the software is not 100% fail proof, but I know w/ the software I use I know if the program crashed while the student was taking their test. I may not be able to fix the problem, but I can help out by giving a re-test. Again using a testing center can help w/ this, but even they have had this error. Most software should save the test up till it crashed. If your school doesn't have something like this they suck.

If I was a hiring manager and had two candidates for a job who had equal skills, but one candidate had an online degree while the other had a degree from a traditional university, I would choose the person with a traditional college degree.
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So if you were my hiring manager when I started programming at the age of 19 I'd never have been given a chance. Seeing as how I had no education, heck I even dropped out of HS right before I graduated due to family matters. What if I were to not hire you due to you not being a fellow alumni from Rice? What happened to giving everyone a fair chance? Also unless you checked out the school how would you know it was an online degree? They don't say Online Degree of Applied Arts and Science in whatever field. The above is almost the same as saying your black and your not as good as a white person.

I admit I am biased towards traditional degrees and do not agree with the concept of an online degree. Please tell me how I am right or wrong regarding the statements I have made above. I have only completed one online course and feel the quality of that course was far inferrior to a standard classroom setting strictly becuase of the fact it was offered online.
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From my experience it all comes down to the instructor. I do just fine in person and online. I'm also not as old as the building that I teach in. Most teachers/Professors/Instructors are old and don't really spend the proper time developing their online classes. The online class is probably an overload class taken on for extra pay. I've also seen the teacher give the glass to a graduating student worker so they don't have to deal w/ it. So instead of interacting w/ the teacher you talk to a student. Are all classes like that nope, again all depends on the school and their staff. Another thing to think about is the student. The fail rate for online classes is higher than face to face classes. Reason behind this is most student fail to do what is required by them. They don't check e-mail on time, or do their work. Being in an online class takes more discipline in my opinion than showing up.
 
[quote name='lilytrabbit']

True, but they do teach another form of social skill. They teach student how to interact properly w/ one another via another means other than face to face. I do contract work during the summer and all communication w/ clients is via telephone or e-mail. Sometimes web cam meetings. Learning proper skills w/ this type of communication is just as important. Most students will type short hand, or txt type instead of using proper grammer.

I've seen students show up late and leave early in person,

Phone, IM, e-mail, FTP, ventrilo or something on that lines.

Most schools use Blackboard or something similar.

So if you were my hiring manager when I started programming at the age of 19 I'd never have been given a chance. Seeing as how I had no education, heck I even dropped out of HS right before I graduated due to family matters. What if I were to not hire you due to you not being a fellow alumni from Rice? What happened to giving everyone a fair chance? Also unless you checked out the school how would you know it was an online degree? .[/QUOTE]

Talking to someone in person is just not the same as talking to someone electronically. In person I can use hand gestures, read body language, look to see who wants to speak, or even draw a picture if I need to. I really should not even have to elaborate on this. I don't care if you are talking to someone online on a virtual screen Jetson's-style. It's just not the same.

I'm trying to keep my two examples with only ONE differentiating feature; online versus traditional. Sure, if someone is a complete dumbass or sleeps through everything, that student is going to fail regardless of the classroon structure. If the student sets the building on fire, sure, he is not going to complete a course through a traditional university. Considering EVERYTHING remains the same and the ONLY difference is whether the class is online or not, I still feel traditional is the better route.

If I was a hiring manager for a job that REQUIRED a bachelors degree, and I had a stack of 200 resumes on my desk for the position (which is typical right now), I would sort through those resumes which met the qualifications for the job and would prefer an applicant from a traditional university. Some universities are known for their online programs. A degree from the University of Phoenix or AIU is probably an online degree. If I was a hiring manager, I would probably be able to identify these schools better than I can now.

If I was a hiring manager ten years ago (I was only 18 years old then) and saw your resume, I would probably give you a chance even though you did not have the college degree. However, the job market is more competitive now, and if the job requires a degree, the hiring manager should expect to be able to hire someone with a college degree. Wtih a stack of 200 to 500 resumes submitted for every single job opening (no exaggeration with the current economy), employers should expect to be able hire someone who meets or exceeds each of the job's requirements today in 2009.
 
Yeah in today's job market in most fields you need at least a bachelor's degree (if not higher) in a good school (or luck out and have it from the school of the person reviewing the applications) to have any chance at making the first cut.

Even then it's often not enough since you have tons of applicants, many of home have high GPAs from top Universities and a lot of good work experience applying for jobs.

So yeah, online university degrees aren't going to help you much at all next to a stack of applicants with degrees from top universities and good work experience.

It may not be fair, but life isn't fair and the job marketplace is especially not fair. You have to do everything you can to be as marketable as possible, and in most fields it's a good idea to bust ass from high school on and get degrees from the best universities (and departments for grad school) that you can as you need ever possible advantage you can get. So in that sense online degrees are really generally a waste.
 
Well I have had a few friends try this it didn't end well for them or their pocketbooks. I would say its just best to a campus.
 
[quote name='packerfan10']Well I have had a few friends try this it didn't end well for them or their pocketbooks. I would say its just best to a campus.[/QUOTE]

Some online universities are just as expensive as traditional universities. They should be cheaper being how the online school does not have a campus to pay for. Sure, they may have a corporate headquarters building somewhere, but the cost of that building is nothing compared to a nice university campus.
 
from a Professor on Yahoo.

It's about the reputation of the college and not whether it was online or not. Most colleges now teach online and those people who don't like online education simply have been left behind. A bit like those people who think you can only do research in a library (because the internet is evil) or that online shopping will never catch on, it's just a fad.

The diploma does not say "online" but the transcripts might. Some colleges (UC Berkeley for example) have a prefix for online and extension courses.

The best colleges in the world are offering degrees online. Who would you hire - the Harvard, Oxford, Stanford, Duke... grad that did work online or the East Podunk State Teacher's College grad who did the classroom and is now an expert kegstander? I'm going with the former. I bet most employers are too. We all know what goes on down at party-central and 13th Grade State College.

Interestingly, as much as Prof. 'Ranto doesn't like online programs; every college on his CV (Villanova, UMinn, Duke, and UC-Berkeley) teaches online as does his employer. They seem to all disagree with him about the viability of distance education.
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I think that online classes and degree have their purpose. Some jobs out there look down upon online degrees, but in reality a degree is a degree. College is what you make of it. I am a 24 year old junior, and could care less for the face-to-face interaction with the common "where is the next kegger?" mentality that many fresh out of high school kids have. I go there for me and my own reasons. I go to lectures, do my homework, take the tests and get credit for my hardwork. I don't go to college for the personal aspect of it.
 
[quote name='cmart05']from a Professor on Yahoo.[/QUOTE]

This guy is comparing the best and brightest student who applies for the most reputable online program to the worst traditional college student at a less than reputable university.

That's like if I were to say that typically, newer cars built in the modern age of technology outperform older cars from 30 years ago. Then, someone approaches me and says 'no way, man! you're wrong! A Ferrari built in 1979 will outperform a 2009 Ford Taurus!!' You can't compare the absolute best within a class to the absolute worst of another and then say the the classes are equal.

Compare the AVERAGE online university taken by the AVERAGE college student and then compare that to the AVERAGE college student at an AVERAGE tradtional university. If you want to compare a scenerio with the best or worst students at the best or worst school, keep all comparisons equal.
 
Yeah, there's a difference from online classes offered by top universities and whole online universities like University of Phoenix.

You're going to get more out of an online class put together by a professor from a top tier university on average than one put together by someone at some online university.

Though I'd still say the Harvard student who takes Class X in person will get more out of it in average than the Harvard student who takes that class online.
 
[quote name='steve_k']This guy is comparing the best and brightest student who applies for the most reputable online program to the worst traditional college student at a less than reputable university.

That's like if I were to say that typically, newer cars built in the modern age of technology outperform older cars from 30 years ago. Then, someone approaches me and says 'no way, man! you're wrong! A Ferrari built in 1979 will outperform a 2009 Ford Taurus!!' You can't compare the absolute best within a class to the absolute worst of another and then say the the classes are equal.

Compare the AVERAGE online university taken by the AVERAGE college student and then compare that to the AVERAGE college student at an AVERAGE tradtional university. If you want to compare a scenerio with the best or worst students at the best or worst school, keep all comparisons equal.[/QUOTE]

A ferrari built in 1979 will absolutely outperform a 2009 Ford Taurus, lol. :)

In any case you totally took the post out of context and are missing the point. He is clearly stating that just because it is an on-line degree it is not looked down upon. If you go to a reputable school and take online courses it should not and will not affect you in any way. Some people learn better teaching themselves then going to school or what not.

I think it's common sense that if you take all your online courses from Phoenix Unversity and let's say I take all my online courses from Rutgers or Penn State or some school like that who would more than likely have the better transcript?

Why would you even need to compare anything to the "average" college student? What is average? I'm willing to bet your opinion of average is different to mine as would be the other persons.

There is a stigma with primarily taking on-line courses and there shouldn't be. Like that poster also said, a lot of professors are turning more to the online courses because there are more positives than negatives for this. It's all up to you really, if you can go to school full-time and attend classes great but for those of us who work online courses are great. I do take regular classes at night as well, but I am a full-time student as well as a full-time worker and the only way that's possible is with online courses.
 
[quote name='cmart05']....a lot of professors are turning more to the online courses because there are more positives than negatives for this.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, as a professor the only benefit I see is less work on my end--which is good since research takes up the bulk of my time and is the most important thing to getting tenure and promotions.

So it would be nice not to have to spend 3 hours a week in the classroom, even moreso if it's an online course that doesn't involve recorded lectures but rather just assigned readings and grading of assignments, responding to e-mail questions etc.

I do agree that some people probably do learn better on their own in terms of learning from a straight memorize knowledge fact. But what you miss out on in developing social skills from interacting in the classroom, thinking more critically about the material from in class discussions, debate assignments etc. etc., as well as having more direct exposure to the professor who should be an expert in their area if you're at a decent program and so on.

But yeah, some just are shy, introverted etc. and aren't going to get much out of that stuff anyway so and online class is probably better for them. And honestly, better for me since it's one less non-participating student in my classroom.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Honestly, as a professor the only benefit I see is less work on my end--which is good since research takes up the bulk of my time and is the most important thing to getting tenure and promotions.

So it would be nice not to have to spend 3 hours a week in the classroom, even moreso if it's an online course that doesn't involve recorded lectures but rather just assigned readings and grading of assignments, responding to e-mail questions etc.

I do agree that some people probably do learn better on their own in terms of learning from a straight memorize knowledge fact. But what you miss out on in developing social skills from interacting in the classroom, thinking more critically about the material from in class discussions, debate assignments etc. etc., as well as having more direct exposure to the professor who should be an expert in their area if you're at a decent program and so on.

But yeah, some just are shy, introverted etc. and aren't going to get much out of that stuff anyway so and online class is probably better for them. And honestly, better for me since it's one less non-participating student in my classroom.[/QUOTE]

I agree with all your points, but some of the online courses I have taken have required me to make a group with other students and do group projects. I will agree, for the most part not all online courses will have a whole lot of face-to-face social interaction but there are online courses that do require this.

I do agree it's less work for the professor but I thin it's also easier for the students to get help because they won't have to wait after class or go during a professor's ridiculous office hours to try and get help. You can just shoot him an e-mail and he can help you right away. I think some online courses also provide webcams so you can sit in on live lectures or what not, I have never took one of those so I don't know if it's true or not.
 
I think college is what you make of it, whether it was online or at a university. I went to four years at a reputable school and I knew plenty of people who coasted by and never went to class, etc. I'm sure everyone does. On the other hand, my boss just finished his Masters online and I've never seen somebody work so hard for a degree. He just didn't have time to go sit in a class since he works full-time.

Online courses are perfectly able to educate someone if that person is willing to be educated, the same way reading a book can educate you.

I personally wouldn't trade my college experience for anything, but at the same time I wouldn't look down my nose at somebody who had gone online.
 
[quote name='cmart05']
I do agree it's less work for the professor but I thin it's also easier for the students to get help because they won't have to wait after class or go during a professor's ridiculous office hours to try and get help. You can just shoot him an e-mail and he can help you right away.
[/QUOTE]

Well that's not really true in that even for a regular class you can e-mail your professor anytime.

I'm very responsive to e-mails and stress on the first day that e-mail is the best way to get help quickly vs. office hours etc.

Most professors are more than willing to meet with students outside of office hours by appointment as well, as we realize there's no way to have office hours that work for every student given all the different class and work schedules people have.

So I don't agree with that point at all. With a regular class you can have just as much e-mail contact etc., and also get the benefit of having the face to face interaction. I take interest in my students, ask ones falling behind to come see me etc. etc. I doubt I'd go that extra mile for online students I've never met in person--online classes are more self learning so I'd be more apt to let people sink or swim on their own.
 
the only benefit I see is less work on my end
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Less work, what?? I've done several online only classes and they seem to be more work at times. Sure I may not be in a class room at a set time, but I'm required to do office hours. I don't know what other schools hours are like mine are 15/10. 15 class hours and 10 office. So I work a total of 25hours a week. The online class is usually a 3hour class, but is always tacked on as an overload for the faculty at my school.

Even if the class didn't have anything fancy other than e-mail and posting of assignments you will ALWAYS have someone come in and need help. So you will spend hands-on time w/ a student or two.

The big thing I keep seeing is the social skills you develop. Come on that's crap! Kids have been developing that same skill since kindergarten. Does something change once you walk into a college class room? Look around the next time you are in a class room how many kids talk? How many just sit there and do their own thing. When you notice a group of students talking pay attention to whom they are talking to. I'll bet they talk to the same set repeatedly. So the only social skill they have is interacting in a clique.

Giving out group assignments is always met w/ moans and groans. Most students hate the things and several students always ask "Can I do this alone", and unless the teacher sets up random groups they break up into their cliques. So they really don't learn any new social skill, if you know someone and can work w/ them w/ out problems what social skills are you learning?
 
[quote name='lilytrabbit']Less work, what?? I've done several online only classes and they seem to be more work at times. Sure I may not be in a class room at a set time, but I'm required to do office hours. I don't know what other schools hours are like mine are 15/10. 15 class hours and 10 office. So I work a total of 25hours a week. The online class is usually a 3hour class, but is always tacked on as an overload for the faculty at my school.
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For me I just teach two classes a week (5 hours class time) and have 3 hours of office hours. Of course that's not counting time spent writing lectures, making exams, grading stuff, responding to e-mails etc.?

Are you at a teaching school or a research university? I'm a at research university so my appointment is 50% teaching 50% research. I probably log around 50-70 or 80 hours a week depending on how much stuff I have going on (class prep, grant proposals, final reports for grants, article writing etc.)

But due to my interests and tenure/promotion weighing more heavily on research I spend probably more like 60-65% of my working hours each week on research, and that will go up once I'm not having new course preps and have taught all my classes a few times and have things set.
 
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I was going to edit the last post, but was lazy. Why are Online Degree's popular and why do they exist needs to be looked at.

They don't exist for the kid who just graduated high school and is going to college. No they exist for the working class. People who have jobs and can not find time to attend a class in person. Do these people really need to develop more social skills seeing as how they have jobs?
 
[quote name='lilytrabbit']
They don't exist for the kid who just graduated high school and is going to college. No they exist for the working class. People who have jobs and can not find time to attend a class in person. Do these people really need to develop more social skills seeing as how they have jobs?[/QUOTE]

Guess that depends on what their job is.

Are the stuck in some shitty, unskilled manual labor job because they did poorly in school and didn't develop good communication skills etc.?

Or do they have a decent white collar job and just want a degree to help them with promotion and moving up in the career.

So I do think online degrees have a place for some types of students. I just don't think it's an equal substitute for a 4 year college experience for the traditional student.
 
In my opinion, I would accept online universities coursework if they're from universities with great credentials in the academic field such as M.I.T. Takeing their day by day lecture classes and posting on the internet is okay with me, but when we mention "institutions" like Phoenix University or Capella, that's where we need to cut the line at.

The online coursework from those places is their bread and butter, probably no damn essential bulk, no damn difficulty; you're basically buying your degree. Sad to say, these days when you refer to "stepping stone" education like in community colleges, they too are taking the same path. I'm not going to say even in solid, credited universities there aren't people looking for the easy way out, but probably less likely because the people who were accepted, had been academically proficient all their lives.

Back to the community colleges, I myself am attending one, and just recently took a philosophy class. The professor was a great instructor and basically told us he's not going to hold our hands, and assured us it wasn't going to be an easy "A" class. He himself said that, online classess contribute to at least 25-30% of his pay because of the relative convenience and less difficult coursework.

That's the reality in the U.S as of now, we're basically "buying" our degrees if there is no challenge and attention. The professors would risk losing students if they don't show "compassion" towards their grades. Inflating grades, giving extra bonus points, it's utter bs. Since he majored in Philosophy, he feels corrupted by the system, but also if people with education adminstration degrees are making 6-figures, than why can't he have a peice of the pie too.

Essentially though, the man is a great teacher, and in the summer we had a great class, so expectations were high, and the strong would survive. I guess he has to adapt to certain circumstances, but since he thought high of us, he challenged us fully.

Anyways, getting back to your question, I'd probably just see how credible the institution you wish to partake in for online degrees really are. If they pass, then by all means go ahead. Just don't be fooled by the "get rich quick" schemes most online "institutions" are trying to lure the masses in.
 
[quote name='mis0']Online colleges are a joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

Watching commercials like that solidify my opinion that online colleges.. are indeed fail.[/QUOTE]

This commercial claims you can make $25,000 more per year with an online degree. Being how the commerical does not specify what type of degree it will be, it is safe to assume they are selling 2-year associates degrees.

A waitress probably makes $15,000 a year. $25,000 on top of this equates to $40,000. There is no way someone is going to finish an online degree (probably just an associates) and land a salaired job paying $40,000 a year with no professional work experience in the current economy. I have a masters degree from an accredited state university and a bachelors degree in business administration with a 4.00 as the top student out of my undergraduate class of 937 students (granted there are about a dozen or so others ranked #1 with a 4.00) and nearly three years of post-graduate professional experience. I feel I am worth $40,000 in the current economy. I really don't believe someone with an online degree from this particular school being advertised with no professional work experience can expect to make the same as I expect to make.

Keep in mind, I am referring to the advertisement for 'Education Connection', or whatever it was.
 
An online degree won't get you respect in any field, although that's not to say you won't know the stuff just as well as a student at a traditional university.
 
[quote name='steve_k']This commercial claims you can make $25,000 more per year with an online degree. Being how the commerical does not specify what type of degree it will be, it is safe to assume they are selling 2-year associates degrees.

A waitress probably makes $15,000 a year. $25,000 on top of this equates to $40,000. There is no way someone is going to finish an online degree (probably just an associates) and land a salaired job paying $40,000 a year with no professional work experience in the current economy. I have a masters degree from an accredited state university and a bachelors degree in business administration with a 4.00 as the top student out of my undergraduate class of 937 students (granted there are about a dozen or so others ranked #1 with a 4.00) and nearly three years of post-graduate professional experience. I feel I am worth $40,000 in the current economy. I really don't believe someone with an online degree from this particular school being advertised with no professional work experience can expect to make the same as I expect to make.

Keep in mind, I am referring to the advertisement for 'Education Connection', or whatever it was.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. My girlfriend graduated from the same (very good) school as me last year (a year later than I graduated) with a good GPA and is still looking for fulltime employment. The current job climate is so bad that I could almost guarantee that resumes from online degree-holders are not getting put into the "interview" pile very often.
 
All of my CIS classes were either hybrid classes (mostly online with 1 class meeting every other week) or totally online. In computer science classes at least, i don't think having a physical class really matters. Between your textbook and countless online resources, a teacher seems redundant. Other classes i wouldn't want to take online.

My school offered an online communications class where you must tape yourself giving two speeches in front of an audience. Since that sounded like too much of a hassle, i took that class in person.
 
[quote name='steve_k']This commercial claims you can make $25,000 more per year with an online degree. Being how the commerical does not specify what type of degree it will be, it is safe to assume they are selling 2-year associates degrees.

A waitress probably makes $15,000 a year. $25,000 on top of this equates to $40,000. There is no way someone is going to finish an online degree (probably just an associates) and land a salaired job paying $40,000 a year with no professional work experience in the current economy. I have a masters degree from an accredited state university and a bachelors degree in business administration with a 4.00 as the top student out of my undergraduate class of 937 students (granted there are about a dozen or so others ranked #1 with a 4.00) and nearly three years of post-graduate professional experience. I feel I am worth $40,000 in the current economy. I really don't believe someone with an online degree from this particular school being advertised with no professional work experience can expect to make the same as I expect to make.

Keep in mind, I am referring to the advertisement for 'Education Connection', or whatever it was.[/QUOTE]


If you think a waitress makes $15,000 a year you are sorely mistaken. $40,000 dollars is on the low end for anyone with a degree from any university; I have friends who just graduated and most are on track to make 2 or 3 times that in their first year.
 
I think online classes are perfectly fine.

Many of my college professors were terrible lecturers, so I just read the textbook during class instead of paying attention to the professor. I imagine that online colleges would work the same way or perhaps even better. I looked at some of the coursework in the MIT and Stanford Open Courseware and learned a hell of a lot more in their programming class then I did in my own.
 
Don't confuse online classes with online schools. Most traditional schools now offer fully online degrees, but they aren't some fly by night totally online school.
 
[quote name='Icen']If you think a waitress makes $15,000 a year you are sorely mistaken. $40,000 dollars is on the low end for anyone with a degree from any university; I have friends who just graduated and most are on track to make 2 or 3 times that in their first year.[/QUOTE]

The girl from the commercial was dressed like an IHOP or Denny's waitress, not a waitress from some fancy restaurant with high-dollar entres. Maybe I am sorely mistaken about the earnings of an IHOP waitress, but I really doubt it. In a fancy restaurant, I'm sure waiters and waitresses make plenty of money.

I don't know what state you live in, or what your friends majored in, but I've never seen starting salaries in Houston for $80,000 to $120,000 annually. I spend on average over an hour a day reading job postings, and most entry level positions I've found start off between $25,000 and $45,000 annually. I've seen plenty of job postings for positions paying $80,000 to $120,000, but they all require ten to fifteen years professional experience.

I'm basing this on the Houston job market with an MBA with a specialization in finance. I do acknowledge engineering degrees are worth more, but a business degree is not worth $80,000 to $120,000 annually unless you can supplement that degree with at least ten years of post graduate, professional experience.

If I'm wrong, please tell me what state you live in. I'll move there and live the life of a rich man!
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Don't confuse online classes with online schools. Most traditional schools now offer fully online degrees, but they aren't some fly by night totally online school.[/QUOTE]

So this topic is about fully online schools? As in schools with no brick and mortar locations? I was under the impression that we were talking about schools which offer online degrees, but also have a B&M school.
 
To those opposed of online degrees, would you hire someone who has 10 years experience in what he is being hired for but has an online degree from Phoenix/Kaplan/Devry/Full Sail or a recent graduate from Harvard but has no work experience?


The HR people that I have talked to say it is more about experience and what you can do than where you got your degree from as long as the school is accredited.
 
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[quote name='steve_k']The girl from the commercial was dressed like an IHOP or Denny's waitress, not a waitress from some fancy restaurant with high-dollar entres. Maybe I am sorely mistaken about the earnings of an IHOP waitress, but I really doubt it. In a fancy restaurant, I'm sure waiters and waitresses make plenty of money.

I don't know what state you live in, or what your friends majored in, but I've never seen starting salaries in Houston for $80,000 to $120,000 annually. I spend on average over an hour a day reading job postings, and most entry level positions I've found start off between $25,000 and $45,000 annually. I've seen plenty of job postings for positions paying $80,000 to $120,000, but they all require ten to fifteen years professional experience.

I'm basing this on the Houston job market with an MBA with a specialization in finance. I do acknowledge engineering degrees are worth more, but a business degree is not worth $80,000 to $120,000 annually unless you can supplement that degree with at least ten years of post graduate, professional experience.

If I'm wrong, please tell me what state you live in. I'll move there and live the life of a rich man![/QUOTE]

You're probably right about IHOP waitresses. I have a jaded view because I have the fortune (or misfortune) of being around a plethora of generally wealthy persons and live in a fairly nice area. Most of my friends got their degree in engineering or some physical science and go off to work for large companies like Microsoft or nVidia or some big hedge fund on Wall Street.
 
This topic is interesting to me as I just started an all online masters program in statistics at Texas A&M. I personally am of the mindset that totally online universities are less than desirable, but that reputable colleges with online programs are close to being as good as on campus (or for people with poor attention spans like me, better :). I'm living in Blacksburg, as I already have relationships with the professors at Virginia Tech.

The way the classes are taught: the lectures are recorded live with the on campus students and are posted about 3 hours later. There is a live Q/A session twice a week in each class where we are able to directly ask questions to the professor via a mic. Each class has a forum in which the professor and the TA answer questions regarding homework/tests/etc, and from the class I've taken, it takes about 1 hour to get a response during the day and about 4 hours if you post at night.
 
[quote name='ananag112']So this topic is about fully online schools? As in schools with no brick and mortar locations? I was under the impression that we were talking about schools which offer online degrees, but also have a B&M school.[/QUOTE]


I'm talking about college programs where a student logs onto a computer for each and every class under the degree program and accomplishes all the degree requirements while remaining hidden behind a computer screen and doesn't have to interact with a living, breathing person through personal contact.

This mainly refers to online universities rather than a traditional university that happens to also have a few online courses for students to take along with classroom setting courses.
 
In my opinion, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their little worlds. I'm not a schemer. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are.
 
[quote name='life.exe']To those opposed of online degrees, would you hire someone who has 10 years experience in what he is being hired for but has an online degree from Phoenix/Kaplan/Devry/Full Sail or a recent graduate from Harvard but has no work experience?


The HR people that I have talked to say it is more about experience and what you can do than where you got your degree from as long as the school is accredited.[/QUOTE]


Yep, experience can matter more than degree in general--whether its from an online university or a top real university.

But where the degree can come in is in time breakers. Two applicants with nearly identical experiences that don't set them apart, one has online degree one has Harvard degree, I'd go with the Harvard grad.

But online degree with 10 years of outstanding experience vs. someone fresh out of Harvard, I'm going with the experience.

But again, it's kind of apples to oranges. The quality of degree only matters in making you stand out from applicants similar on other qualifications.
 
All any degree amounts to is a piece of paper, nothing more. What having a degree any degree says about a person is that they are trainable. The majority of what you learn in a class room environment is null and void once you start a job. Most places re-train you to do things their way. You just take the principal fundamentals of what you learned and apply it.

Having a degree lets a company know that they can take a risk hiring you and you'll probably last more than a few weeks or months. They know they'll get a decent employee and not some slacker who wants everything handed to them.
 
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