[kurokubushi]

A single exception does not disprove a generalization, that was his point. Just because it happens to person A and B doesn't mean it will happen to C or D. For instance, I've never had a RRoD, and the only thing that influences that is probability, not what happens to A or B in specific instances.

I know, I'm just stated this because he seems to have a "Well it hassen't happned yet, so it probally wont" mentality.

[Ronin317]

Granted the E74 bit is rather new and not too widespread yet. HOWEVER in all fairness the Jasper units have only been around in true consumption for a few months. Time will tell to see if these units are as reliable as 360 fans or microsoft claim they are. BTW didn't the 360 fans hope that reliability would go up with Zephyr, Falcon, the one before that and now Jasper?

And you think PSN has as much human garbage? You poor poor uneducated user. In THREE Minutes of Call of Duty 4 on the 360 I got told "I'm going to rape your sister, you suck $$$$er, you're gay, I'm doing your mom" ALL within three minutes of blatant stupidity. Granted this may be isolated, but it gets even more consistent when you play Halo 3 "I know I know, this game shouldn't count as it's more stupid per capita" but still, I have never been verbally insulted on PSN yet and it takes actual effort on the PSN as it comes with no mic. Factor in the socio economic status of most 360 owners and it's just a matter of time bracing yourself for the entourage of concentrated stupid. Granted you are right in the PSN is free and will eventually have more human garbage, but as long as they don't bundle a mic, this will be kept to a minimum. You also have to acknowledge that the PS3 and 360 go after different age audiences where it's people in their late 20s early 30s that have the PS3, while it's teens and early 20s that go to the 360. And reporting does what exactly? They'll just come back as a more annoying douche then before as Microsoft does a whole lot of nothing unless it's blatantly obvious like RichardGaywood, Or Gayboy incident where open sexuality is almost an instaban.

So now you have age demographics too? I don't have to acknowledge anything that isn't supported by facts. I've run into morons on both networks...regardless of if the PS3 comes with a mic or not. And it's not exclusive to Live - ever play Unreal Tournament on the PC back in the day with a headset? I've seen MS ban people for shouting stupid racist shit in games, and all 8 or 12 people reported the person. The Homophobia incidents are a whole different issue.

The point is that bashing MS because of a small group of assholes that use their service is like bashing CheapyD because someone is a douchebag on these forums. And it certainly doesn't have anything to do with price point.

Oh, and how many of the fat PS2s went tits up? Every system has problems...the RRoD is a more highly publicized one. But it simply is not a forgone conclusion that it will happen to every system, as some people claim. It's obviously an issue, but it gets way way too much play on the forums.

[Paco]

So now you have age demographics too? I don't have to acknowledge anything that isn't supported by facts. I've run into morons on both networks...regardless of if the PS3 comes with a mic or not. And it's not exclusive to Live - ever play Unreal Tournament on the PC back in the day with a headset? I've seen MS ban people for shouting stupid racist shit in games, and all 8 or 12 people reported the person. The Homophobia incidents are a whole different issue.

The point is that bashing MS because of a small group of assholes that use their service is like bashing CheapyD because someone is a douchebag on these forums. And it certainly doesn't have anything to do with price point.

Oh, and how many of the fat PS2s went tits up? Every system has problems...the RRoD is a more highly publicized one. But it simply is not a forgone conclusion that it will happen to every system, as some people claim. It's obviously an issue, but it gets way way too much play on the forums.

Yes there was studies about what demographics used the PS3, Wii and 360. The Nielsen Media Research is copied and pasted below

"Nintendo Wii The Wii, which is by far the bestselling home console of this generation, appeals mainly to males aged between six and 11, and females aged between 25 and 34. Women over the age of 35 use the Wii much more than either the PS3 or Xbox 360. Which would kind of explain how Wii Fit continues to top the all-format charts month after month.
Microsoft Xbox 360
The Xbox 360, currently sitting in a very comfortable second place in terms of sales, appeals mainly to males aged between 12 and 17, and females aged between 25 and 34. This seems like a bizarre mix but the younger age range for boys could explain the level of petty whining and douchebaggery on display over Xbox Live.
Sony PS3
The PS3 generally seems to appeal to the older generation, with no young kids anywhere in the mix. This could just be because the Sony machine is so damn expensive that kids are still saving up their pocket money for one. Both males and females saw the largest usage amongst the 18 to 24 age range. This is considered the hardcore range where gamers play more games and for longer than any other age range.
The most telling statistic to emerge from this survey is that the Wii is by far the least used console, despite being installed in the most homes. This confirms a thought I’ve had for a long time now: the Wii is a short-lived novelty only brought out for parties."
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The best advice I got on those people is to just mute everyone and have only friends go through because the vast majority of people get no punishment or not enough reports for it to warrant a ban. And small group of assholes? You're being quite generous I see. I can do that too. Sony is only a little in debt from the PS3, but in all honesty assholes and little shits are the norm on Live. And it does have to do on price point as the cheaper something is, the obvious lower class or hoods can afford it. And in turn you get people yelling all sorts of obscene crap without any problem. Some of my friends are guilty of this too and I asked them "why?" The answer I got was "because it's fun and it's Xbox live, everyone else does it so who cares?" I'm sure this sentiment is quite true as almost 75% of the people on live are douches who think under the cloak of anonomyous "you can't find me" nature of live, they can go and say the foulest shit on the planet. I blame this on giving 16 year olds mics.

And the PS2 going tits up? Granted the PS2 build quality sucked ass for the first year and a half, but you're comparing a tiny fixer upper to a complete pile of shit. The PS2 only got Dre's and this was fixed by opening it up and tweaking a little cog. The 360 overheats and the motherboard warps, gpu fries or the whole thing is burned to hell. One is fixable by regular people. The other is completely damned to hell and most likely unfixable unless you got hands of god. You can't compare them. But it's thanks to their shitty hardware that microsoft went from their incredibly generous three month warranty from 2005 to half of 2006 to the one year standard, three year RRoD warranty.

[Ronin317]

I really don't buy that data at all, sorry. Nielsen or not. Xbox 360 is the college age system of choice, and it's not all 16 year olds. Also, with the party system in place, you don't have to hear a damn thing from anyone else except those in your party. And it is a small group - How many times have you played a 12 player deathmatch and there's one asshole out of 12? That amounts to small group. 75% is a gross exaggeration. And if live is so terrible, why is it far and away the most popular gaming service? And the rest of what you said is conjecture...lower class hoods? what kind of shit is that? My buddy owns a used media store, and the 'lower class hoods' you speak of are still playing PS2, and waiting until the price drops to get a PS3. Now, this is a store in a suburb of Pittsburgh, so I'm sure it doesn't speak for the mass market, but it does say something.

And yes, the PS2 went tits up on many people, and you're overestimating it being a "tiny fixer upper" for most people. You're talking about people whose VCRs are still in use AND flashing 12:00. People who burn toast on a regular basis - and when trying to make tuna salad on toast end up in a burn unit with mayo in their hair. (RIP Richard Jeni on that one...)

[kurokubushi]

I really don't buy that data at all, sorry. Nielsen or not. Xbox 360 is the college age system of choice, and it's not all 16 year olds. Also, with the party system in place, you don't have to hear a damn thing from anyone else except those in your party. And it is a small group - How many times have you played a 12 player deathmatch and there's one asshole out of 12? That amounts to small group. 75% is a gross exaggeration. And if live is so terrible, why is it far and away the most popular gaming service? And the rest of what you said is conjecture...lower class hoods? what kind of shit is that? My buddy owns a used media store, and the 'lower class hoods' you speak of are still playing PS2, and waiting until the price drops to get a PS3. Now, this is a store in a suburb of Pittsburgh, so I'm sure it doesn't speak for the mass market, but it does say something.

And yes, the PS2 went tits up on many people, and you're overestimating it being a "tiny fixer upper" for most people. You're talking about people whose VCRs are still in use AND flashing 12:00. People who burn toast on a regular basis - and when trying to make tuna salad on toast end up in a burn unit with mayo in their hair. (RIP Richard Jeni on that one...)

The asshole ratio really has do do with what game your playing. With the 360 lets use it's 3 most popular mutliplayer games as an example.

Halo: This series is Nartiouse for being filled with asshole,homphobic 10 year olds, and your be extremly lucky to get into a game withoutone in there.

Call of Duty: 4- For as long as I played it the amoount of assholes I've ran into was very small, you get the occasional guy who thinks it's funny to fire a rocket launcher at the begining of a hardcore match, but thats about it.

Gear of War- My short expierence on this game was somewhere inbetween COD:4 and Halo 3. The asshole ratio wasent narly as large as Halo, but it still happned on a regular basis.

Also I'd like to pint out that the main reason why you probally don't have as amny assoles on PSN, because other than games that come with one (warhawk and socom) Hardly anyone has a mic.

As for your guys "PS2 going Tits up" Argument that ps2 failure ratio was NO WHERE near the the ratio of the 360. At it's worse the ps2 reached nearly a 10% failure rate, while this is addmitidly more than the standard 2-3%, it is nore where near the over 30% failure rate of the 360. And if you sent a ps2 in to get fixed, it stayed fixed, it dient happen again, and again. What you guys like to neglect to mention the the launch systems of the original xbox had a tendancy to breakdown also.

[David Hibiki]

$350 by September. I don't think they will do $300 anymore.

You'll notice lately theres a lot of PS3 deals - $50 Giftcard thrown in, free wireless controller, etc. It all ads up to about a $50 price cut, and it looks like Sony is willing to take that.

I'm guessing $300 sometime late next year at this rate, and by then the 360 will be $150 for the arcade

[David Hibiki]

it is nore where near the over 30% failure rate of the 360. .

All original 360's are bound to fail eventually, and Falcons failure rate is supposed to be low. Jaspers hopefully won't fail as much if MS has learned their lesson.

If you want PS3 fail rates go around and search how many people are having problems with their 60 gigs. I frequent other msg boards and they have had 10 sixty gigs fail in the last week. Do a search online.

[rumarudrathas]

(...) If it was 100% software like the PS1 emulator, they could have added it at no extra costs. But since PS2 BC requires at least a GS (because no console GPU out there has a high enough fill rate to emulate it) along with other components, that brings the costs up, PCB size increases, and so on.(...)

I was actually under the impression that the 80gb CECHExx line actually had a 100% Software emulation (both for EE and GS), but I guess I should have done more researching

From http://kotaku.com/ga...t-to-308467.php

The 60GB model launched in Europe was a new model (shared with the 80GB model launched subsequently in USA) which contains only a modified version of the Graphics Synthesiser chip from the PS2 and not the Emotion Engine chip. The European launch model therefore used a combination of software and the modified version of the PS2 Graphics Synthesiser chip to deliver backwards compatibility for PS2 titles. As a result the percentage of backwards compatible PS2 titles was slightly reduced.

But, earlier on in the same article:

The 40GB model, to be launched in Europe on 10th October, is a new model and is not equipped with any of the semi conductors from the PS2, and backwards compatibility would therefore have to be achieved by software emulation alone. The sheer numbers of PS2 titles available, together with the increased complexity of using a software only solution for each and every title means that to ensure accurate software emulation for the majority would be technically challenging, time consuming and costly. As we have mentioned on several occasions, our engineering resources are now focused on developing new and innovative features and services for the PS3 and, as a result the 40GB model does not have backwards compatibility with PS2 titles.

Though, That is to say that a 100% software emulation solution may not be out of the realm of possibility, just yet. Yes, development of such software that can even be called "functioning" is not only difficult and time consuming, but also expensive. The major difficulty with any software solution is that there will be no guarantee that software engineers could make every piece of code from any given ps2 CD to be emulated perfectly on the PS3. Even if they managed to do that, could you imagine the size and complexity of such a piece of software that needed to be installed in your system?

Though, let's do say that Sony did manage to complete such an undertaking, and do are able to utilize a highly functioning and usable software solution for the PS3. It may be possible to appease the BC-demanding crowd if Sony is to 1.) install the software to all existing SKI line with no price increase(and thus them eating the cost of development, in a way), 2.) create an offshoot SKU with a price higher than an existing SKU line (maybe an "Elite" package, due to a lack of a better term, having a bigger hard drive and other extras) and/or 3.) offer the Software as a pay for download from the PSN, or offer it for free and having Sony eat the development cost yet again.

I will say this one caveat though, the truth of the situation is that the market penetration of the PS2 is so great right now that I don't really see the reason why there are people craving BC, when there is a good chance that they themselves already own a perfectly working PS2. Hell, my fiance had a launch model, of which we sold in order to afford a 60gb PS3. Hell, you could just "tack" on the price of buying a used PS2 for someone to a price dropped PS3, and you will still be way ahead than any current PS3 owner.

As a personaly anecdote, I haven't really played any ps2 titles on my PS3 at all lately. I remember playing a round or two of Odin's Sphere (a game of which I haven't finished yet...), but aside from that, I mainly play the current generation offerings that the console can offer, and I'm not worst for it. The reason why I invested on a BC PS3 borded on a purely aesthetic one; I wanted to reduce the clutter on our entertainment center, and I thought it would be ludicrous to have so many consoles in full display (between us, we also own a 360 and a Wii). I'm not bitter with me not touching the BC aspect of my ps3 and my fiance has said that it is better to have it, so we could at least finish our ps2 backlog (which BTW, is still stagnating).

Just my two cents on the issue of BC

As for the price drop... Why the hell not?

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

And if you sent a ps2 in to get fixed, it stayed fixed, it dient happen again, and again. What you guys like to neglect to mention the the launch systems of the original xbox had a tendancy to breakdown also.

Actually, the Xbox was a beast last gen compared to the PS2. The one local shop had only a handful of broken Xbox systems, as opposed to a couple ROOMfuls of broken PS2's.

As for the broken consoles staying fixed, tell that to my one buddy who had to send back his PS3 FOUR friggin' times before they fixed it right.

Each time they sent it back, they may have fixed the prior problem, but it developed a NEW problem.

So, before saying that the PS2's that Sony oh so professionally repaired never had another problem, think again.

[js1]

Actually, the Xbox was a beast last gen compared to the PS2. The one local shop had only a handful of broken Xbox systems, as opposed to a couple ROOMfuls of broken PS2's.

As for the broken consoles staying fixed, tell that to my one buddy who had to send back his PS3 FOUR friggin' times before they fixed it right.

Each time they sent it back, they may have fixed the prior problem, but it developed a NEW problem.

So, before saying that the PS2's that Sony oh so professionally repaired never had another problem, think again.

Sony does NOT fix the units that you send back, at least for you. What they do is just give you a refurbished unit and fix yours to send to someone else. That's part of the reason why I don't want to send mine into them. I think I will see if I can replace my laser and then sell my 40gb model and get a new 80gb unit+ a 2-3 warranty wherever I buy it.

[kurokubushi]

Actually, the Xbox was a beast last gen compared to the PS2. The one local shop had only a handful of broken Xbox systems, as opposed to a couple ROOMfuls of broken PS2's.

As for the broken consoles staying fixed, tell that to my one buddy who had to send back his PS3 FOUR friggin' times before they fixed it right.

Each time they sent it back, they may have fixed the prior problem, but it developed a NEW problem.

So, before saying that the PS2's that Sony oh so professionally repaired never had another problem, think again.

Having diffrent issues with the same system is still alot betther than sending it in to be fixed, and then having the same damn thing happen to months latter.

[GamerPro4000]

The PS3 should drop soon i think. i believe there are going to be a whole new flag ship of ps3 that are going to be less powerful than the current 80's and 120's. no chrome trim, touch sensitive power button, card readers, i believe there might be 2 less cpus out of the 8. Basically its gonna be more like a wii. I read this some where in an article. Also, a lot of people believe the ps3 should also drop soon is because the other competitive companies like samsung that make blu-ray players and selling them for a cheaper price. So it should bring down the cost of the ps3. Based on how blu-ray discs are selling better now, its obviously the blu-ray is getting more common and the more common the technology is, the cheaper they will be.

Edited by gamerpro4000, 28 February 2009 - 03:51 AM.

[cochesecochese]

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[rickonker]

i believe there might be 2 less cpus out of the 8. Basically its gonna be more like a wii.

Why do people say shit like this?

[kongfunk]

I think the price drop will happen after March 23.
Because all those $150 credit card deals that Sony offered in December ended that date.

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

Having diffrent issues with the same system is still alot betther than sending it in to be fixed, and then having the same damn thing happen to months latter.

How video game console manufacturers get away with the 90 day warranty that was prevalent in the PS2/Xbox/GC gen, while other major electronics manufacturers at least give six months to a year, is beyond me.

I never really liked that you only had three months and that you were guaranteed that if a problem arose it was going to happen on day 91.

Most of the DRE problems were easily fixed by either by realigning the laser or just by simply cleaning it. I saved myself $75 MANY times over by learning how to take apart the PS2(and the Xbox as well)and do the work myself.

However, I can only imagine the MILLIONS of people who Sony made an easy $75 off of because they were too afraid to open their own console up.

I still have NO doubt that THAT is why Sony sold over 100 million PS2's, since many of those were rebuys to replace the faulty ones that DRE'd.

[darkcecil32]

How video game console manufacturers get away with the 90 day warranty that was prevalent in the PS2/Xbox/GC gen, while other major electronics manufacturers at least give six months to a year, is beyond me.

I never really liked that you only had three months and that you were guaranteed that if a problem arose it was going to happen on day 91.

Most of the DRE problems were easily fixed by either by realigning the laser or just by simply cleaning it. I saved myself $75 MANY times over by learning how to take apart the PS2(and the Xbox as well)and do the work myself.

However, I can only imagine the MILLIONS of people who Sony made an easy $75 off of because they were too afraid to open their own console up.

I still have NO doubt that THAT is why Sony sold over 100 million PS2's, since many of those were rebuys to replace the faulty ones that DRE'd.

While I agree in part with what you say, a factor that should not be overlooked is the care people took care of their consoles with my. My best friend and I both had launch day PS2's, but we both babied them to death. I had mine for 4+ years before I sold it, never had a single problem other than the machine would always make a weird screeching sound the FIRST time you ejected it after powering it on (never subsequent times).

I also know people who had launch days or later systems that had issues because of negligence less than 3 months in, but were able to be covered by warranty, but had issues that could have been completely avoided. I also know people who had them break down 1-2 years in. I don't think I heard of anyone missing the warranty period by less than a month. If someone had their console break down within days 91-100, I would feel really bad for them. I don't think the PS2 was designed to be a faulty system if properly cared for.

I think either extreme is too general and too anecdotal to go by.

Oh yeah, on topic, I think a 50$ price drop is more reasonable to expect than a 100$ price drop. Just an inkling, but with sony stating that their goal is to start turning a profit over being competitive coupled with the fact that the system is still selling at a loss, I am expecting a price cut less than 100$.

[dog_from_duck_hunt]

i'm thinking about getting the ps3 from dell.com. does anyone know if a better deal will come along. will the price drop be that much better?

[StrandedBrit]

i'm thinking about getting the ps3 from dell.com. does anyone know if a better deal will come along. will the price drop be that much better?

If that's with the 20% code then I'd say go for it. I got another one a few weeks ago with that deal and turned out to be just under 340 total. Even if Sony dropped it next month to 300 + sales tax, that's not that big of a difference.

[Kayden]

Hickey also adds that he's heard murmurs of a Blu-ray-free PS3 in the works. Without the Blu-ray hardware, the console's production cost would shrink enough to rationalize a substantial price drop.
I have my doubts about this rumor. It makes no sense that Sony would remove the Blu-ray from consoles when, in many ways, Blu-ray was the Playstation 3's raison d'etre. From the day the Playstation 3 was introduced, Sony all but said it was selling the PS3 below cost in order to win the "format war" over HD-DVD. Abandoning that niche would be admitting that Blu-ray hasn't delivered as hoped.

How about the fact that without one, none of the fucking games work? Sounds like a pretty good reason to not cut it. Just further proof that "experts" and "analists" don't know jack.

[dog_from_duck_hunt]

If that's with the 20% code then I'd say go for it. I got another one a few weeks ago with that deal and turned out to be just under 340 total. Even if Sony dropped it next month to 300 + sales tax, that's not that big of a difference.

yeah i did the deal from dell and got a controller too. it ended up costing me 399.58 with tax inculded. so i'm happy with that!