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The Texas budget is in big trouble. Any thoughts from conservatives?


#31 depascal22   Daddy Fat Sacks CAGiversary!   10195 Posts   Joined 14.1 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:19 PM

Mmmmm. Tecate.

As for tax rates in Texas, politicians will never raise taxes because they would be voted out. It's a classic case of self-interest trumping responsibility.

#32 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 04:07 PM

So the answer then is to default?

that's the thing: they have to raise revenues somehow, and a $25B deficit isn't something you're going to be able to increase speeding tickets to cover.

There's no fat to cut, but they must cut fat.

So the union boys will be stripped of everything including their dignity, but that's not going to account for much of anything.

Then you'll have to either enter into woah-there-batshit-crazy territory (e.g., privatizing the entire education system, seceding from the United States), or you'll have to raise tax rates. They'll probably go all flat tax or fair tax, however - just shuffle the cards long enough to convince the public that they're accomplishing something, and not simply playing a game of monte carlo - and then the next governor of Texas will encounter a $50B budget deficit when Perry does not run for re-election, seeking instead to move onto national level politics. The entire thing will successfully be blamed on Democrats, despite no more than seven existing in the state by that year. Austin will become its own country.

That's the kicker, isn't it, fair-minded liberal types? That woah-there-fucking-insanity is more likely to occur, and will be heralded as more reasonable, than any tax hike. Not just by the public, but the media, too. I can already hear Chris Matthews questioning the need for public education on "Fireball" or whatever his show is.

#33 Knoell   Achievement Unlocked CAGiversary!   2584 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 05:35 PM

So we see california, new york, and new jersey have raised spending and raised taxes to bring themselves into a giant deficit. Texas has lowered spending and lowered taxes to bring them into a giant deficit.

Does this mean we all agree that there is a moderate level of spending and taxing to be done here?

#34 depascal22   Daddy Fat Sacks CAGiversary!   10195 Posts   Joined 14.1 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:11 PM

So we see california, new york, and new jersey have raised spending and raised taxes to bring themselves into a giant deficit. Texas has lowered spending and lowered taxes to bring them into a giant deficit.

Does this mean we all agree that there is a moderate level of spending and taxing to be done here?


No. It means that the Party of Fiscal Responsibility doesn't really have an 'effin clue how to balance a budget. When you take that away, what do Republicans stand for? Banning gay marriage, slandering black single mothers, and fighting Roe v Wade?

#35 UncleBob  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:42 PM

Speaking of creative accounting, the Tax Foundation is a policy arm of the Republican party. They are an agenda-driven institution, and not to be trusted with data.


Not sure why the Tax Foundation would have an agenda against the state of California, but, again, if you can provide alternative information that shows California on the lower end of the tax scale, that'd be wonderful.

#36 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:55 PM

http://krugman.blogs...eliable-source/

#37 UncleBob  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 08:18 PM

http://krugman.blogs...eliable-source/


Okay, I get that you don't think that the Tax Foundation is a reliable source and that they apparently have some kind of evil agenda against the state of California or something. Can you provide an alternative source that shows that California has a lower tax rate than most other states?

#38 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 08:43 PM

http://www.jsonline....n/89702927.html

Hey, Census data!

#39 UncleBob  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 09:03 PM

http://www.jsonline....n/89702927.html

Hey, Census data!


I'm not sure if the colors are confusing to you, but it appears to me that Texas is near one end of the color chart while California is near the other end.

Posted Image

#40 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 09:06 PM

It's not that simple, hombre.

Do you want to compare it to Texas by itself? Or "most other states" as you requested two posts up? This moving target stuff is irritating.

#41 UncleBob  

Posted 08 January 2011 - 09:17 PM

It's not that simple, hombre.

Do you want to compare it to Texas by itself? Or "most other states" as you requested two posts up? This moving target stuff is irritating.


I just want you to back up your claim that both California and Texas have tax rates that are too low, when Texas seems to be on the bottom end of the lower half, while California seems to be on the upper end of the upper half when it comes to tax rates by state. Unless you're saying that all states have too low of tax rates - which doesn't explain the states that aren't going belly-up.

#42 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6251 Posts   Joined 14.6 Years Ago  

Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:09 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...=rssnyt&emc=rss

Whole thing. Read it.

#43 depascal22   Daddy Fat Sacks CAGiversary!   10195 Posts   Joined 14.1 Years Ago  

Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:12 PM

Somehow conservatives will blame this on illegals.

#44 Clak   Made of star stuff. CAGiversary!   8079 Posts   Joined 10.2 Years Ago  

Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:45 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...=rssnyt&emc=rss

Whole thing. Read it.

Given that old story on textbook revisions in Texas, I don't really think they're worried about education, let alone how much they spend on it. Just cut it completely and let parents home school their kids like god intended.:roll:

#45 UncleBob  

Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:51 PM

Somehow conservatives will blame this on illegals.


Actually, Myke already did. Is he a conservative?

#46 speedracer   Banned Banned   3735 Posts   Joined 15.6 Years Ago  

speedracer

Posted 11 January 2011 - 07:32 PM

http://www.businessinsider.com/texas-budget-shortfall-2011-1?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+clusterstock+%28ClusterStock%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

[B]Wow: Texas Deficit Estimate Comes In Worse Than The Worst Expectations

Bad news on the state of muni finances.

The Texas budget is expected to run a $27 billion two-year budget shortfall according to just-released state estimates.

That's worse than the $25 billion that Paul Krugman cited last week when he gleefully noted that a GOP bastion was facing deficit problems.

(Conservative pundit Kevin Williamson responded by saying that "insiders" were estimating a mere $11-$15 billion shortfall. Obviously those insiders were optimistic.)

In the first year, the state is expected to collect $72.2 billion versus expenditures of $87 billion.

Texas may still be in a better shape than states like Illinois, but this is a severe gap, and cuts to healthcare or education or higher taxes are coming.

I couldn't help but notice that unions were left off that list. Guess its their fault every other time but this one.

And lol to cuts to health care and education in a state in the bottom 10 in both in spending per person. Good luck with that.

#47 UncleBob  

Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:04 PM

No comment on the "better than Illinois" part of that quote, I see. :D

Here in Illinois, they're promoting a "temporary" increase of the state income tax - almost doubling it. Yay.

#48 speedracer   Banned Banned   3735 Posts   Joined 15.6 Years Ago  

speedracer

Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:45 PM

No comment on the "better than Illinois" part of that quote, I see. :D

Here in Illinois, they're promoting a "temporary" increase of the state income tax - almost doubling it. Yay.

To be honest, my first thought when I read that was "huh. Illinois is in trouble?" The sites I read are always talking about CA, NY, TX, and FL budgets.

#49 dmaul1114   Banned Banned   24688 Posts   Joined 14.5 Years Ago  

dmaul1114

Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:47 PM

Most every state is in trouble, just to varying degrees. Been tons of cuts here in Georgia, and the new Republican governor is talking big about making a lot more cuts as the budget is still way in the red.

Edited by dmaul1114, 11 January 2011 - 11:36 PM.


#50 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

Posted 11 January 2011 - 11:26 PM

Here in Illinois, they're promoting a "temporary" increase of the state income tax - almost doubling it. Yay.


I suspect that's a policy you don't particularly like. What would you prefer instead?

#51 UncleBob  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:48 AM

I suspect that's a policy you don't particularly like. What would you prefer instead?


I liked my idea to have Indiana annex my border county into their state, but I couldn't get much support around it. :D

The obvious answer is "cut spending". Where? Not 100% sure. But, apparently, neither are our state lawmakers, as the only ideas they have are:

Raise personal income taxes.
Raise corporate income taxes (to what will be the highest state in the union).
Raise the cigarette tax.
Require websites play taxman. (Amazon.com has already announced that they will cancel their affiliate program in Illinois if Quinn signs the legislation. In 2009, Illinois residents paid $18 million in state income tax from Amazon.com affiliate earnings alone. $18 Million - gone.)

Taxes, taxes, taxes - that's all these politicians can come up with. Because us border counties don't lose enough business to Indiana and Missouri as it is.

One thing that seems to come up in conversation quite a bit is our state pension system. It's apparently one of the most generous in the country - and severely underfunded. There's been efforts to reshape the system so that new employees coming will receive benefits more in line with what's comparable from the rest of the country - while not taking away anything from those already in the system - but that idea has been fought tooth and nail.

#52 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15229 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:52 AM

Taxes, taxes, taxes - that's all these politicians can come up with. Because us border counties don't lose enough business to Indiana and Missouri as it is.


You work at Walmart, why do you care?

#53 UncleBob  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:06 AM

You work at Walmart, why do you care?


A) Because I have friends and family members who don't work at Walmart.
B) Because the more jobs we have available, the less people who will need various forms of handouts (funded by our already stretched tax dollars).
C) Because I enjoy doing business at places besides Walmart and don't much enjoy driving an hour to do so (which, of course, also takes more money out of the Illinois tax system).
D) Because the more local people who have money, the more they'll be able to spend at my Walmart, giving me a bigger bonus, allowing my store to spend more on payroll and hire more people.

#54 Sporadic   done with this site CAGiversary!   9499 Posts   Joined 15.6 Years Ago  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:55 AM

A) Because I have friends and family members who don't work at Walmart.


maybe they should?

B) Because the more jobs we have available, the less people who will need various forms of handouts (funded by our already stretched tax dollars).


build more walmarts?

C) Because I enjoy doing business at places besides Walmart and don't much enjoy driving an hour to do so (which, of course, also takes more money out of the Illinois tax system).


what? how can you be such a traitor to a company, no, family, that has given you everything that you have???

D) Because the more local people who have money, the more they'll be able to spend at my Walmart, giving me a bigger bonus, allowing my store to spend more on payroll and hire more people.


but if they build more walmarts, that will give more people more money, who will spend it at walmart, which enables walmart to build more walmarts where people can work

...

what's the problem again?

#55 UncleBob  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 12:17 PM

maybe they should?
build more walmarts?
what? how can you be such a traitor to a company, no, family, that has given you everything that you have???
but if they build more walmarts, that will give more people more money, who will spend it at walmart, which enables walmart to build more walmarts where people can work
...
what's the problem again?


What a helpful, insightful, meaningful, wonderful post you've added to the conversation. Thanks!

#56 depascal22   Daddy Fat Sacks CAGiversary!   10195 Posts   Joined 14.1 Years Ago  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:01 PM

It was better than praying that Indiana would annex your county.

You could always do what I did and move from Illinois to Indiana.... I know it's hard to imagine moving a whole thirty minutes away but, hear me out. You could stop bitching about high taxes and work for a Wal-Mart in Evansville or Princeton.

#57 UncleBob  

Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:37 PM

It was better than praying that Indiana would annex your county.

You could always do what I did and move from Illinois to Indiana.... I know it's hard to imagine moving a whole thirty minutes away but, hear me out. You could stop bitching about high taxes and work for a Wal-Mart in Evansville or Princeton.


Actually, I've worked for two of the three stores in Evansville and the store in Princeton. Really enjoyed the store in Princeton.

But, alas, moving from Illinois to Indiana doesn't help my friends and neighbors here in the area.

#58 speedracer   Banned Banned   3735 Posts   Joined 15.6 Years Ago  

speedracer

Posted 13 January 2011 - 02:17 PM

It's like when you buy a car and then all you see on the road is your car. Now all I'm seeing is Illinois news. I'm really stoked that Illinois chose the tax increase only (basically) route. Now we have Texas who will only cut services, Illinois that only raised taxes, and California that did both. Obviously there's a shit ton of externalities that can affect the outcomes of each (population, economic base, etc) but I'm still really interested to see how each comes out.

#59 camoor   Jams on foot fires CAGiversary!   15229 Posts   Joined 15.5 Years Ago  

Posted 13 January 2011 - 08:10 PM

maybe they should?



build more walmarts?



what? how can you be such a traitor to a company, no, family, that has given you everything that you have???



but if they build more walmarts, that will give more people more money, who will spend it at walmart, which enables walmart to build more walmarts where people can work

...

what's the problem again?


:lol:

#60 UncleBob  

Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:53 AM

It's like when you buy a car and then all you see on the road is your car. Now all I'm seeing is Illinois news. I'm really stoked that Illinois chose the tax increase only (basically) route. Now we have Texas who will only cut services, Illinois that only raised taxes, and California that did both. Obviously there's a shit ton of externalities that can affect the outcomes of each (population, economic base, etc) but I'm still really interested to see how each comes out.


Should be interesting. We need that Jackson/Popcorn .gif.
Probably the main reason you're hearing about Illinois is because of the amount of the tax increase.