Christopher Hitchens is dead

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Died of esophagal cancer late last night.

A famous atheist and public intellectual that's more popular for his biting rhetoric and quick wit. Aside from that, he also had a heavy touch of the islamophobias and lasted through less than 2 seconds of waterboarding(edit: actually 15 seconds of drizzling). Since he was an atheist, there will be no RIP dedications from me, but we can argue his effectiveness, tactics, and his penchance for booze and cigarettes that ultimately killed him, which is more befitting to him.

Here are two popular clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIviufQ4APo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
 
No matter what you thought of him I think he was pretty courageous.

The guy wasn't afraid to put what he believed out there, even though much of it was unpopular (and some was ironically)

I don't think he liked abrahamic religion period. Therefore it's somewhat incorrect to say that he was islamophobic, he wasn't too easy on the christians either. Instead he was more abrahamic phobic. Also ironic considering he was named Christopher.

RIP for a courageous man.
 
Yeah read this late last night before I turned in. Though his opinion on our adventures in Iraq tended to rub me wrongly he was a great thinker and an even better speaker. Although I wouldn't exactly call him a islamophobe, but more person who disliked every religion. While he was an ass from time to time I always got the feeling from him that he was truly genuine in everything he published and wrote.
 
I'm a little surprised no one is really shitting on him. He had no qualms about shitting on people after they died (Falwell, Mother Teresa, Princess Di), its probably fitting that he should get that same treatment.
 
I tuned out his atheist shit much the same as I tune out Bill Maher's, but this guy on any other topic really had some points that ensured you took the time to stop and think. The religion thing, I just can't pick a side on that, much like gun control or abortion, where both sides have such valid arguments.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I'm a little surprised no one is really shitting on him. He had no qualms about shitting on people after they died (Falwell, Mother Teresa, Princess Di), its probably fitting that he should get that same treatment.[/QUOTE]

Eh - Christopher was a pundit and people asked him what he thought. He could either be disingenuous or honest and he chose brutally honest.

In the same vein I'm sure he would want you to give your honest opinion now that he's passed.
 
[quote name='SgtMurder']Good riddance, he's just as hateful as the radical clerics in the middle east.[/QUOTE]

Dude, your whole shtick is hate.

What's the matter - having trouble staying in character? You do some of the weakest-ass trolling I have ever witnessed. It's just bad - and not in a "it's so bad it's good" way. It's just bad.
 
[quote name='camoor']Dude, your whole shtick is hate.

What's the matter - having trouble staying in character? You do some of the weakest-ass trolling I have ever witnessed. It's just bad - and not in a "it's so bad it's good" way. It's just bad.[/QUOTE]

Ok kid, let me spell it out for you, since you seem to pull straws from containers.

I do not spew hate, like that of Mr.Hitchens, I don't publish books titled "Religion is Poison" like he did. Even the OP stated, he was islamaphobic and was quick to trash anyone who died like the tactless ass he was.

If you like the guy, fine, but don't expect every to kiss his ass when all he did was bring nothing but ignorance and irrational thought to the world.
 
[quote name='SgtMurder']Ok kid, let me spell it out for you, since you seem to pull straws from containers.

I do not spew hate, like that of Mr.Hitchens, I don't publish books titled "Religion is Poison" like he did. Even the OP stated, he was islamaphobic and was quick to trash anyone who died like the tactless ass he was.

If you like the guy, fine, but don't expect every to kiss his ass when all he did was bring nothing but ignorance and irrational thought to the world.[/QUOTE]
Easy there, troll. Don't twist my words into meaning something it doesn't. He might've had hated all religion, but he had a special place for Islam. Not to mention that his critique of Falwell is on point as well as on others.

[quote name='camoor']It's the new "nice guy" Sgt Murder. That temp ban did wonders :lol:[/QUOTE]
LOLZ...if info was right, he got temp-banned from trolling in a non-vs. thread. I'm pretty sure no one cares about the asshole of CAG that is vs. Hell, it took forever for gargus in OTT.:lol:
 
[quote name='dohdough'] He might've had hated all religion, but he had a special place for Islam.
[/QUOTE]

I think he was especially harsh on Islam because of current events. Christians are rather boring targets given that hardly anyone in the West takes their religion seriously. It seems a bit more prominent in the middle east by comparison.
 
[quote name='SgtMurder']
If you like the guy, fine, but don't expect every to kiss his ass when all he did was bring nothing but ignorance and irrational thought to the world.[/QUOTE]

No, he didn't bring religion.
 
[quote name='Strell']...

Wait, "rest in peace" is considered theistic?[/QUOTE]

i don't know the origin of that phrase, but 'rest' seems to convey continued existence, perhaps? he's not dead, he's just resting.

'be dead in peace' isn't exactly the most comforting phrase, however.

it's a stretch, but there's my attempt.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']I think he was especially harsh on Islam because of current events. Christians are rather boring targets given that hardly anyone in the West takes their religion seriously. It seems a bit more prominent in the middle east by comparison.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree that he was heavily influenced by 9/11, but that he starts and ends on that without considering the fact that the West has had a very strong influence on allowing, and even encouraging, religious fanaticism. The US, in particular, was instrumental in overthrowing many democratically elected governments that were socialist leaning throughout the Cold War and in turn, installing and heavily supporting brutal dictatorships. Afghanistan was one of those countries.

[quote name='SgtMurder']I see the Vs. Section has no qualms about religion bashing....[/QUOTE]
We have no qualms against bashing almost anything or anyone. Especially you.

[quote name='mykevermin']i don't know the origin of that phrase, but 'rest' seems to convey continued existence, perhaps? he's not dead, he's just resting.
'be dead in peace' isn't exactly the most comforting phrase, however.

it's a stretch, but there's my attempt.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty close. It's more of a reference to worldly suffering and release of a soul, so when a person is dead, the soul is hopefully free from worldly pain. It comes from a prayer.

Having a soul implies some type of afterlife or other supernatural phenomena upon death, so I'm pretty sure it's anti-atheistic.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']We have no qualms against bashing almost anything or anyone.[/QUOTE]

...as long as it's a well-deserving target

Well - most of us at least.
 
[quote name='dohdough']That's pretty close. It's more of a reference to worldly suffering and release of a soul, so when a person is dead, the soul is hopefully free from worldly pain. It comes from a prayer.

Having a soul implies some type of afterlife or other supernatural phenomena upon death, so I'm pretty sure it's anti-atheistic.[/QUOTE]

Ok, this is "War on Christmas" levels of stretching here.
 
[quote name='SgtMurder']Good riddance, he's just as hateful as the radical clerics in the middle east.[/QUOTE]
Yeahhhh, man who critisizes religion with rhetoric is as bad as the middle eastern clerics and imams who issue fatwa's. Yeah, he was totally spewing the same hate they were.

[quote name='panzerfaust']I think he was especially harsh on Islam because of current events. Christians are rather boring targets given that hardly anyone in the West takes their religion seriously. It seems a bit more prominent in the middle east by comparison.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he kinda was, however I would ask you really don't forget his special place for Christians like Mother Theresa. He was really hard on her in many ways. Also I think a lot of his distaste for Islam came from the his friendship with Salmon Rusdie, who is still under a fatwa from Khamenei and how the UK politicians handled the situation.
[quote name='dohdough']

That's pretty close. It's more of a reference to worldly suffering and release of a soul, so when a person is dead, the soul is hopefully free from worldly pain. It comes from a prayer.

Having a soul implies some type of afterlife or other supernatural phenomena upon death, so I'm pretty sure it's anti-atheistic.[/QUOTE]
I personally use the term because I think it is more secular than spiritual in tone now.
 
Never particularly cared for Hitchens. His politics were... unpleasant. I can't claim to be an expert on the guy, but the only really good thing I can think of from him was his acting as Devil's Advocate for Mother Teresa.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Never particularly cared for Hitchens. His politics were... unpleasant. I can't claim to be an expert on the guy, but the only really good thing I can think of from him was his acting as Devil's Advocate for Mother Teresa.[/QUOTE]

Was anything he said true about Teresa? It seemed like a valid argument, but I haven't heard much from the other sides.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']Well yeah, I know his stance.[/QUOTE]
Then what is the question?
But yes, most of everything he said is defensible and probably correct. However I can see how one might question how the way in which MT was a tool for the Vatican and how much she believed in her positions.
 
[quote name='Strell']Ok, this is "War on Christmas" levels of stretching here.[/QUOTE]
What the hell do you think "rest in peace" means or where it came from? I think you're confusing agnosticism with atheism here.

[quote name='thenurseryan']who.... wait... nah dont even care.[/QUOTE]
Cared enough to post apparently.
 
[quote name='dohdough']What the hell do you think "rest in peace" means or where it came from? I think you're confusing agnosticism with atheism here.
[/QUOTE]
Agnosticism is epistemological more than anything else. It is not even a world view, but merely a way to weigh evidence and look for answers. While atheism is more a summation of ones views on religion and its effects. One is making an actual statement the other only says how to deal with information. Just thought I should add this in since it seems like you think agnosticism is a position, like atheism is, instead of what it truly is a philosophical approach to gain new information.

Forgive me if I misunderstood you insulation. I have had multiple glasses of whisky at this point.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Agnosticism is epistemological more than anything else. It is not even a world view, but merely a way to weigh evidence and look for answers. While atheism is more a summation of ones views on religion and its effects. One is making an actual statement the other only says how to deal with information. Just thought I should add this in since it seems like you think agnosticism is a position, like atheism is, instead of what it truly is a philosophical approach to gain new information.

Forgive me if I misunderstood you insulation. I have had multiple glasses of whisky at this point.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you're making an academic argument...not that there's anything wrong with that of course. I disagree that angosticism is more epistemological than not, but your reasoning is sound when using that framework. It's just that I don't use that framework...heh.:lol:

I also dabble in whisky from time to time. Dalwhinnie 15 and Yamazaki 12 are my favs so far, but I really prefer cognac tbh.:cool:
 
[quote name='The Crotch']...

I don't think that's whisky, cinder.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't be the first time I was too dumb to understand what one wrote or said.
[quote name='dohdough']Sounds like you're making an academic argument...not that there's anything wrong with that of course. I disagree that angosticism is more epistemological than not, but your reasoning is sound when using that framework. It's just that I don't use that framework...heh.:lol:

I also dabble in whisky from time to time. Dalwhinnie 15 and Yamazaki 12 are my favs so far, but I really prefer cognac tbh.:cool:[/QUOTE]

I am not one to drink expensive whiskies, I usually just go for stuff that that is easily accessible and is not to rough, and usually stick to JW black or markers mark. Although Yamazaki 18 was yummy as was highland park.
 
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Agnostics are atheists anyway, they just don't realize it most of the time. If one is undecided about the existence of god, they can't possibly beleive in it. Granted they may not be as sure about it as others, but taking the middle of the road position is ultimately the same as not believing. It's just a bit safer position.
 
[quote name='Clak']Agnostics are atheists anyway, they just don't realize it most of the time. If one is undecided about the existence of god, they can't possibly beleive in it. Granted they may not be as sure about it as others, but taking the middle of the road position is ultimately the same as not believing. It's just a bit safer position.[/QUOTE]

I don't know about that. I think most agnostics are decidedly not modern American Christians, but they are leaving the door open on more abstract concepts like the human soul or the spiritual realm.

The self-identified athiests that I have met are more hard-core about science and math explaining everything. You start talking about Christ, Buddha, or Tarot cards and most of them get as militant as the "war on Christmas" crowd.
 
Which is why I said they may not be as sure as others (the hard-core you describe). But believing is an either/or proposition, there is no "kinda" about it. You can say you aren't sure about the existence of a god, but that inherently means you don't believe in one.
 
[quote name='Clak']Which is why I said they may not be as sure as others (the hard-core you describe). But believing is an either/or proposition, there is no "kinda" about it. You can say you aren't sure about the existence of a god, but that inherently means you don't believe in one.[/QUOTE]

Two things:

1) Agnosticism is a statement about the metaphysical realm in general. To limit it to the God question misses a ton of religious views.
2) Brilliant people have written tomes on the question of whether or not the spiritual ream/God/etc exists. Anyone who is not agnostic for at least a small part of their life is either simple in the head or just not being honest with themselves
 
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