Questions about package loss during trading after you sent the payment (updated)

One CAG sells a PS3 dishonored game to me for $22.00 a few weeks ago. Right now, I still have not received the game for almost 2 weeks. I found that the his usps tracking number is not updated. The latest update is December, 17 th. however, the expected delivery date is december, 20th. I think the package lost. Does anyone have this experience before? If this really happen, what should I do? I know I am trading with CAGs it doesn't cover any buyer or seller protections. Is it my responsibility? Thank you very much.

Post updated:

Here is the tracking number.
03122120000195358770

First-Class Mail®
Dispatched to Sort Facility
December 17, 2012, 5:05 pm
RANDLEMAN,$NC$27317$
Expected Delivery By:
December 20, 2012
Delivery Confirmation™
Acceptance
December 17, 2012, 3:02 pm
RANDLEMAN,$NC$27317$




Actually, I am still dealing with this CAG. He told me he didnt want me to post his user name in there so I respect his decision. He has 100% positive feedbacks in trading with cags. He had nearly 100 transactions. In our transaction, i sent him $22 gift card amazon code for his dishonored. After several discussion, he said he will refund $11 PayPal to me for compensation if the status is no longer updated after this year. He told me I didn't request him to buy an insurance so that it is my partial responsibility. Anyways, is the partial refund a good solution for both of us?

Actually, I want to have a full refund, but he rejects full refund for the following reasons below.
1. For the insurance issue, it is my responsibility to tell him to buy a insurance, but not himself asks me actively. Since i have not requested him to buy instance, he doesn't buy insurance so he can't file a claim to USPS.
2. He confirmed he has shipped the game with the USPS tracking number. He said this is his first time to lost mail when trading with CAGs. If it is lost, It is the post office's responsibility but not himself. If he gives me full refund, he will lost $44 totally. It does not sound reasonable.
3. The amazon gift card $22 is redeemed.
4. He thought his game maybe misrouted. He thought I may receive the game in somedays perhaps 1 month or 2 months later. If he issued the full refund to me and I eventually receive the item after several months, he said I will be lucky that I get money back and get a free game, while he completely loss the game and paid some extra money plus shipping Charge, total around $44.
5. I am not paying via PayPal, eBay or amazon. The seller does not have a full responsibly for package loss and there is no buyer protection. This is cheapassgamer trading forum, not a big business.

I don't know how to argue that. Although I can argue that, he said he will not give me full refund. The $11 partial refund is his last resort if I don't receive the game within a month.

That is the reason why he only gives me a partial refund.

After our discussion, he decided to refund $11 to me for compensation if I do not receive the game this month (the tracking information doesn't update this month). Most importantly, I haven't paid $22 with PayPal. I sent him $22 amazon gift card so that I can't file any claims since the code is redeemed.
Lastly, he warned that next time I should pay the money until the item is delivered. Maybe I am too hastile. I sent him payment before he shipped the item.
Actually, are there any rules for trading in CAG?

For example, I pay the seller money first and wait him to ship the item or the seller ships the item until it is delivered, then I pay for it? Anyway, I am very confused now.

For another example, if a boy uses psn $10 code to trade a game with another CAG, does the boy give the CAG code first or the CAG sends the game with tracking number first?

Also, is it reasonable for the buyer to send the $10 code until he received the item?

Actually, do many sellers usually want the buyer to send him a code or payment first before he ships the item?

Thank you for you guys to helping me to figure it out the solution. I just want to hear more opinions and gain more experiences from you guys. I very appreciate for those who spend a lot of time in reading my post and gives me some opinions.

What is the last thing the tracking # says?

Better yet, what's the actual tracking number?

Was there anything on the tracking number. The seller could of given you a bogus tracking number.

Who was the seller?

Yes. Who was the seller? Did they have good feedback? Or was it a new CAG with no feedback under his belt?

Did you resolve your problem?

I'm curious if there is a resolution here as well.

It is the seller's responsibility to get the merchandise to the buyer. If a package is lost, it is entirely on the seller. (There are a few grey areas, such as the buyer providing the wrong address, that I could see it being on the buyer.)

So in short, if you didn't get your game and the seller won't live up to their side of the deal, file a complaint with PayPal or whatever service you paid through. Hopefully you didn't gift the payment.

well you are in a spot here since you have no feedback. but smokingpiglet^ is right. so make sure you follow up on the service you used as with PP you only have 30 days to file (from what I understand).

However, I have had a few instances on this site where the item was sent and it sat in a shipping facility for 1-3 weeks, then made a very round about way to get to my doorstep (like from tampa to a shipping facility 15 miles outside Pitt only to sit there for a 10 days and go BACK to jacksonville FL and then sent back to my apartment. yea). so this CAG who sold you the game may not be screwing you here, could just be Holiday shipping mishaps abound.

It should be the sellers responsibility imo, they can file a report with the USPS to try and locate the package. They could have also purchased Usps insurance for shipping which would have covered them on their end if package was lost.
Although just as an aside I have had packages both received myself and delivered to others where the mailman simply didn't scan the package and then the tracking forever says the same thing until it times out. I ship a lot and find it very rare that Usps actually totally loses a package. Sometimes also a package will suddenly show up even a few weeks late when it gets misrouted somehow in transit without the dc# being updated.

Thanks for the updates, OP.

Thank you for all responses in my situation. I am glad for your listening and sharing your own thoughts.
Actually, I am still dealing with this CAG. He told me he didnt want me to post his user name in there so I respect his decision. He has 100% positive feedbacks in trading with cags. He had nearly 100 transactions. In our transaction, i sent him $22 gift card amazon code for his dishonored. After several discussion, he said he will refund $11 PayPal to me for compensation if the status is no longer updated after this year. He told me I didn't request him to buy an insurance so that it is my partial responsibility. Anyways, is the partial refund a good solution for both of us? Actually, I want to have a full refund, but he rejects full refund for the following reasons below.
1. For the insurance issue, it is my responsibility to tell him to buy a insurance, but not himself asks me actively. Since i have not requested him to buy instance, he doesn't buy insurance so he can't file a claim to USPS.
2. He confirmed he has shipped the game with the USPS tracking number. He said this is his first time to lost mail when trading with CAGs. If it is lost, It is the post office's responsibility but not himself. If he gives me full refund, he will lost $44 totally. It does not sound reasonable.
3. The amazon gift card $22 is redeemed.
4. He thought his game maybe misrouted. He thought I may receive the game in somedays perhaps 1 month or 2 months later. If he issued the full refund to me and I eventually receive the item after several months, he said I will be lucky that I get money back and get a free game, while he completely loss the game and paid some extra money plus shipping Charge, total around $44.
5. I am not paying via PayPal, eBay or amazon. The seller does not have a full responsibly for package loss and there is no buyer protection. This is cheapassgamer trading forum, not a big business.

I don't know how to argue that. Although I can argue that, he said he will not give me full refund. The $11 partial refund is his last resort.

That is the reason why he only gives me a partial refund.

After our discussion, he decided to refund $11 to me for compensation if I do not receive the game this month (the tracking information doesn't update this month). Most importantly, I haven't paid $22 with PayPal. I sent him $22 amazon gift card so that I can't file any claims since the code is redeemed.
Lastly, he warned that next time I should pay the money until the item is delivered. Maybe I am too hastile. I sent him payment before he shipped the item. Actually, are there any rules for trading in CAG? For example, I pay the seller money first and wait him to ship the item or the seller ships the item until it is delivered, then I pay for it? Anyway, I am very confused now. For example, if a boy uses psn $10 code to trade a game with another CAG, does the boy give the CAG code first or the CAG sends the game with tracking number first? Also, is it reasonable for the buyer to send the $10 cod until he received the item?

Thank you guys. I have updated this post in the first post.

[quote name='raykcchan']1. For the insurance issue, it is my responsibility to tell him to buy a insurance, but not himself asks me actively. Since i have not requested him to buy instance, he doesn't buy insurance so he can't file a claim to USPS.
2. He confirmed he has shipped the game with the USPS tracking number. He said this is his first time to lost mail when trading with CAGs. If it is lost, It is the post office's responsibility but not himself. If he gives me full refund, he will lost $44 totally. It does not sound reasonable.
3. The amazon gift card $22 is redeemed.
4. He thought his game maybe misrouted. He thought I may receive the game in somedays perhaps 1 month or 2 months later. If he issued the full refund to me and I eventually receive the item after several months, he said I will be lucky that I get money back and get a free game, while he completely loss the game and paid some extra money plus shipping Charge, total around $44.
5. I am not paying via PayPal, eBay or amazon. The seller does not have a full responsibly for package loss and there is no buyer protection. This is cheapassgamer trading forum, not a big business.
[/QUOTE]

1. That's malarkey. It's the seller's responsibility to get the item to you in the described condition. Insurance is up to them, not you.
2. Not reasonable, but a risk you take as a seller.
4. Maybe. What does the tracking show at this point?
5. He's right. CAG takes no responsibility for trades/sales between its members. You still have options. If you're finding him unreasonable, contact a mod and see if getting one involved will push the situation along.

I doubt he would have shipped the game to you without receiving payment first. That's a ridiculous defense. "If you didn't want the game to get lost, you shouldn't have traded with me!" :lol:

Please post the tracking number.

This sucks and something similar happened to me on ebay before. I sold a game to someone and it somehow ended up taking about 6 weeks (USPS 1st Class) to get to the buyer. In the meantime I shipped the buyer a replacement. Of course both eventually arrived and I just let the buyer keep both. Took a good loss on it but not a whole lot else you can do.

Frankly to lessen the blow on everyone I'd say to split the costs and just accept the $11 refund for now, give it another few weeks, and if it still hasn't shown up the seller should refund you the other $11.

If I didn't receive a game I would not be satisfied with a partial refund. Also remember, if he does not rectify the situation then you can leave appropriate feedback. At this point the only acceptable alternatives to me are him either sending you another copy of the game or a full refund.

[quote name='thelonepig']1. That's malarkey. It's the seller's responsibility to get the item to you in the described condition. Insurance is up to them, not you.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. If the seller bought something on Amazon and Amazon gave him that bullshit excuse, would the seller only accept half reimbursement?

I've learned the hard way a few times, but if the seller did not pay for tracking or insurance, the liability falls on him or her. If the seller is reading this, just give him the refund. If you're already going to refund him $11, why not just refund him $22. If it were me, I wouldn't risk hurting my reputation.

POST THE TRACKING NUMBER

Also, sounds like the CAG is spouting some bullshit. You can still file a claim and start an investigation even without insurance. I've done it before when a package of mine was lost.

It is MOST CERTAINLY the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer. If USPS lost his package, then HE is out the payment and the item. You should get a full refund. It isn't your responsibility to ask for insurance, that is for him to decide on. Again, even though there is no insurance, he can still call in with the tracking number and have them investigate.

It isn't your fault that the package was lost. Why should you have to suffer? This is something that happens from time to time and it is on the seller. After all, he is the one that shipped the item. It doesn't matter if he sold it on CAG or Amazon, or got a gift card or paypal as payment. This is still on him.

If you never receive the game and you don't get a full refund, leave him negative feedback.

If you never receive the game and only get a partial refund, leave him neutral feedback.

If you end up getting the game, leave him positive feedback because in the end this is a USPS mistake.

If you end up getting your full refund, then there was no real trade and you wouldn't leave him feedback at all.

Also, there are no real rules on CAG in terms of trading, but the norm is:

-If trading, lower feedback ships their end first

-If selling, the buyer pays first and then the item is shipped

I doubt that nearly anyone on this forum would ship an item and wait to be paid until it was delivered - especially to someone with no feedback! Again, this CAG is talking out of his ass. It is unfortunate that his package has possibly been lost, but he is handling it the wrong way. I wish you would give his name so I know to avoid him.


POST THE TRACKING NUMBER

I have had two packages that I sent to someone (without dc #s for some reason) get lost in the mail a long time ago.

What I did was the fair thing. I returned the games that were sent to me or agreed upon a fair amount of money (in my case it was 15 dollars) to be sent to the other person since their package was lost.

I think that if the seller already cashed the money that he should return it all or send you Dishonored. It is only fair.

I was just scammed on CAG two weeks ago from user

xphoenix23

he took 150 dollars and promised to overnight a Wii U. Found out later he took the picture from ebay and hasn't logged on since.

My example is just to show you that some people on here have no class. You don't know for sure if he is scamming you or what. At least he is paying you SOMETHING. It is still not right. If the seller is reading this, refund his money dude.

Here is the tracking number.
03122120000195358770

[quote name='Yamato']POST THE TRACKING NUMBER

Also, sounds like the CAG is spouting some bullshit. You can still file a claim and start an investigation even without insurance. I've done it before when a package of mine was lost.

It is MOST CERTAINLY the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer. If USPS lost his package, then HE is out the payment and the item. You should get a full refund. It isn't your responsibility to ask for insurance, that is for him to decide on. Again, even though there is no insurance, he can still call in with the tracking number and have them investigate.

It isn't your fault that the package was lost. Why should you have to suffer? This is something that happens from time to time and it is on the seller. After all, he is the one that shipped the item. It doesn't matter if he sold it on CAG or Amazon, or got a gift card or paypal as payment. This is still on him.

If you never receive the game and you don't get a full refund, leave him negative feedback.

If you never receive the game and only get a partial refund, leave him neutral feedback.

If you end up getting the game, leave him positive feedback because in the end this is a USPS mistake.

If you end up getting your full refund, then there was no real trade and you wouldn't leave him feedback at all.

Also, there are no real rules on CAG in terms of trading, but the norm is:

-If trading, lower feedback ships their end first

-If selling, the buyer pays first and then the item is shipped

I doubt that nearly anyone on this forum would ship an item and wait to be paid until it was delivered - especially to someone with no feedback! Again, this CAG is talking out of his ass. It is unfortunate that his package has possibly been lost, but he is handling it the wrong way. I wish you would give his name so I know to avoid him.


POST THE TRACKING NUMBER[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your helpful opinions. I have posted the tracking number already. Actually, the seller has over 100 positive feedbacks. Maybe I am too hastile again. I have left him a positive feedback already.

[quote name='thelonepig']1. That's malarkey. It's the seller's responsibility to get the item to you in the described condition. Insurance is up to them, not you.
2. Not reasonable, but a risk you take as a seller.
4. Maybe. What does the tracking show at this point?
5. He's right. CAG takes no responsibility for trades/sales between its members. You still have options. If you're finding him unreasonable, contact a mod and see if getting one involved will push the situation along.

I doubt he would have shipped the game to you without receiving payment first. That's a ridiculous defense. "If you didn't want the game to get lost, you shouldn't have traded with me!" :lol:[/QUOTE]

What is a mod?

[quote name='kyrhon']Yes. Who was the seller? Did they have good feedback? Or was it a new CAG with no feedback under his belt?[/QUOTE]

He is the seller with over 100 positive feedbacks.

[quote name='raykcchan']What is a mod?[/QUOTE]

A moderator. Someone who donates their time to the site to resolve disputes, delete unhelpful/hurtful posts, and generally moderate the forum.

Pookymeister and Shrike are the two that are active in the trading forum.

funny story.. i just experienced something similar.

On December 2nd i bought a Video game from a seller on ebay for $4 dollars total. She sent the game out the next day with the usps tracking number. After a day the tracking stopped updating and a week and a few days went by.

She contacted The postal service but they really didn't give her a solution. We both thought the package got lost because of the holiday season and she decided to give me a full refund.. turns out the package finally arrived on the 24th and the tracking number updated as well.. i ended up sending her the money back...


I would give it a week or two more... if the package doesn't arrive and the tracking number doesn't update then a partial refund would be a good way to end it..

[quote name='raykcchan']Thank you for your helpful opinions. I have posted the tracking number already. Actually, the seller has over 100 positive feedbacks. Maybe I am too hastile again. I have left him a positive feedback already.[/QUOTE]

Why would you leave positive feedback before the deal was finished? Also, it doesn't matter if he had 200 feedback. It is the seller's responsibility to have the item delivered. Let him know that he can call USPS and get it sorted out because the same thing happened to a game I was selling. After a few calls they opened an investigation at the sorting facility.

I know you don't want to push the issue, and it is unfortunate that the seller's package is lost. Still, the burden is on him.

It seems that you don't want the buyer to be out the $44 and you have some sympathy. Maybe the best option is to just wait a month to see if it shows up - I've also had a package shipped to me First Class that took 21 days to arrive for unknown reasons. If you're willing to wait a month, do so. It could very well show up after the holidays wind down. If it still hasn't shown up by the end of January, then I would push for the full refund.

According to the USPS tracking number your package wasn't accepted/dispatched by USPS until December 17th.

It looks like it was shipped by First Class mail which while it is technically rated as a a 2-5 business day service all bets are off during the Holidays.

I would give it one more week. Even though the seller didn't have insurance he can still contact USPS and provide his shipping information and explain that you as the buyer haven't received the item yet. USPS will then do something called a "track back" and they will send an alert to all the postal facilities where the item should have traveled while en route to your address and see if it got stuck somewhere along the way.

Look at the tracking the package was clearly misrouted and is on it's way

Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility

December 30, 2012, 2:25 am

CITY OF INDUSTRY, CA 91715

The Usps must have misplaced the packaged but it's now showing movement I would give it about a week to arrive at this point. The good thing is the package is now showing up again in the system so this should work out ok.

Of course the seller didn't want his name posted. If the package has been lost for good, saying it's half your fault and only giving you a partial refund is a dirty move, and he obviously doesn't want people to know how he operates in a situation like this.

I disagree that it's all on the seller. He did his part and mailed it out.

If it truly was lost then refunding half is more than reasonable.

I'm stil curious who the seller was...

[quote name='whoknows']I disagree that it's all on the seller. He did his part and mailed it out.

If it truly was lost then refunding half is more than reasonable.[/QUOTE]

you're kidding right? That is absolutely NOT how e-commerce works. Insurance does and always has protected just the seller.

The buyer has fulfilled their obligation in a sale by making payment and providing a correct shipping address. Everything after payment has been made is the responsibility of the seller.

[quote name='GBAstar']you're kidding right? That is absolutely NOT how e-commerce works. Insurance does and always has protected just the seller.

The buyer has fulfilled their obligation in a sale by making payment and providing a correct shipping address. Everything after payment has been made is the responsibility of the seller.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I see the sellers responsibility as getting the item sent out in a timely manner. It's not under their control if the carrier loses it.

If it's something like the item was poorly packed and it's damaged when it gets to the buyer, then yeah, something like that is on the seller, but in this case the seller did nothing wrong. He mailed it out and has proof that he mailed it out. If it was lost (which we know it wasn't) I can't see the seller as being at fault.

This is CAG, just two people trading, it's not Amazon where refunding or replacing doesn't really affect them in a noticeable way. I expect people to be more reasonable and understanding on here.

[quote name='whoknows']I disagree. I see the sellers responsibility as getting the item sent out in a timely manner. It's not under their control if the carrier loses it.

If it's something like the item was poorly packed and it's damaged when it gets to the buyer, then yeah, something like that is on the seller, but in this case the seller did nothing wrong. He mailed it out and has proof that he mailed it out. If it was lost (which we know it wasn't) I can't see the seller as being at fault.

This is CAG, just two people trading, it's not Amazon where refunding or replacing doesn't really affect them in a noticeable way. I expect people to be more reasonable and understanding on here.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter where the transaction is taking place, it is the seller's responsibility for the package to get to the buyer safely.

[quote name='whoknows']I disagree that it's all on the seller. He did his part and mailed it out.

If it truly was lost then refunding half is more than reasonable.[/QUOTE]

I also disagree on it being on the Sellers responsibility. For one thing insurance, is 100% on the buyer. I never buy insurance unless I'm asked to do so, and if I'm asked your paying for it not me.

Additionally, it's the sellers responsibility to get it in the mail, but they have zero control over USPS, so unless the seller made a mistake in packaging or shipping, I don't think he should be held 100% responsible. I know if it where me, I would not provide a 100% discount. I thoroughly think a 50% refund is reasonable and appropriate.

In fact, I think I was in a situation like this once, I can't remember which side I was on, but someones package got lost in the mail. We decided on the same course of action, with no arguments, a 50% refund to the buyer. In the end it never happened as the package turned up, but refunding half is the most fair way to go. You have to remember, the seller is loosing just as much as the buyer is. This isn't a business, and individual CAGS can't be held to the same e-commerce standard as amazon, or some B&M retail outlet.

[quote name='Rozz']It doesn't matter where the transaction is taking place, it is the seller's responsibility for the package to get to the buyer safely.[/QUOTE]

No, it's the sellers responsibility to do everything in their power to facilitate getting the package to get to the buyer safely.
This is one person trading with another, this is not a store. There is no refund policy, or agreement for delivery protection. As a seller, you must try to get the package in the hands of the buyer, but when things go wrong, I think everyone on both sides needs to be reasonable and understanding, and come to a fair and equitable agreement that leaves both sides, the buyers, and the sellers equally satisfied, or as close to satisfied as can be gotten with the remaining product and funds.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']No, it's the sellers responsibility to do everything in their power to facilitate getting the package to get to the buyer safely.
This is one person trading with another, this is not a store. There is no refund policy, or agreement for delivery protection. As a seller, you must try to get the package in the hands of the buyer, but when things go wrong, I think everyone on both sides needs to be reasonable and understanding, and come to a fair and equitable agreement that leaves both sides, the buyers, and the sellers equally satisfied, or as close to satisfied as can be gotten with the remaining product and funds.[/QUOTE]

The buyer already did their part by paying you. If you choose a shipper that loses the package then it is on you. They would have every right to file a PayPal dispute against you if the tracking says it was never delivered. Store or not, you have the responsibility of getting the buyer their item if they exchanged money or goods for your product.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']I also disagree on it being on the Sellers responsibility. For one thing insurance, is 100% on the buyer. I never buy insurance unless I'm asked to do so, and if I'm asked your paying for it not me.

Additionally, it's the sellers responsibility to get it in the mail, but they have zero control over USPS, so unless the seller made a mistake in packaging or shipping, I don't think he should be held 100% responsible. I know if it where me, I would not provide a 100% discount. I thoroughly think a 50% refund is reasonable and appropriate.

In fact, I think I was in a situation like this once, I can't remember which side I was on, but someones package got lost in the mail. We decided on the same course of action, with no arguments, a 50% refund to the buyer. In the end it never happened as the package turned up, but refunding half is the most fair way to go. You have to remember, the seller is loosing just as much as the buyer is. This isn't a business, and individual CAGS can't be held to the same e-commerce standard as amazon, or some B&M retail outlet.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much this. If the buyer wants insurance it's up to them to ask for and pay for it.

Also agreed about what the sellers responsibility is.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']I also disagree on it being on the Sellers responsibility. For one thing insurance, is 100% on the buyer. I never buy insurance unless I'm asked to do so, and if I'm asked your paying for it not me.

Additionally, it's the sellers responsibility to get it in the mail, but they have zero control over USPS, so unless the seller made a mistake in packaging or shipping, I don't think he should be held 100% responsible. I know if it where me, I would not provide a 100% discount. I thoroughly think a 50% refund is reasonable and appropriate.

In fact, I think I was in a situation like this once, I can't remember which side I was on, but someones package got lost in the mail. We decided on the same course of action, with no arguments, a 50% refund to the buyer. In the end it never happened as the package turned up, but refunding half is the most fair way to go. You have to remember, the seller is loosing just as much as the buyer is. This isn't a business, and individual CAGS can't be held to the same e-commerce standard as amazon, or some B&M retail outlet.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='whoknows']Pretty much this. If the buyer wants insurance it's up to them to ask for and pay for it.

Also agreed about what the sellers responsibility is.[/QUOTE]

What are you guys stuck in 1999?

Find one reputable trading website or marketplace or payment processor that agrees with you that "insurance is for the buyer".

That isn't how things work. As a seller you are contracting USPS/UPS/Fed Ex to deliver a package for you. If they fail to do so that is YOUR problem---NOT the buyer's.

The only responsibility a buyer has is to make payment.

[quote name='GBAstar']What are you guys stuck in 1999?

Find one reputable trading website or marketplace or payment processor that agrees with you that "insurance is for the buyer".

That isn't how things work. As a seller you are contracting USPS/UPS/Fed Ex to deliver a package for you. If they fail to do so that is YOUR problem---NOT the buyer's.

The only responsibility a buyer has is to make payment.[/QUOTE]

This. I honestly cannot believe that these guys think that the buyer should bear some of the burden. If you bought something from Amazon and the package was lost, you're telling me that you'd be fine not getting a full refund? You'd be fine with partially paying for something you never even received?

"Oh, but wait! Amazon is a store! They can't possibly be compared to two regular people buying and selling on a trading forum!"

Why not? Amazon, as the seller, contracts UPS to deliver the item to you. This is the same thing the CAG is doing. It doesn't matter who is selling or who is buying, it is the same circumstance at the end of the day. A buyer is paying to receive something from the seller, who makes a decision on how to get the item to the buyer. This includes choosing a carrier service, such as the USPS, and choosing shipping options, such as First Class, Priority, Delivery or Signature Confirmation, and insurance. It is up to the seller which services are used.

I just sold a laptop on eBay and chose to buy Signature Confirmation for my protection. I didn't buy insurance, however, because I wanted to save money. I instead put my faith in the USPS that I wouldn't have any problems. My laptop had an estimated delivery date set, but on that date, the laptop was still at a sorting facility in my state where it had been sitting for days. Months before, I had already lost one package to this same sorting facility (by the way, I gave the buyer a full refund).

Now, if this laptop ended up lost, you're telling me that I am not at fault for not buying insurance? It is reasonable to ask my buyer to only accept $250 back from a $500 purchase because he didn't ask me to ship with insurance? I don't think so. The first thing I did was call the USPS and had them open an investigation. I chose them to deliver my laptop, so it is my responsibility to ensure that they follow through.


I get that the seller has done nothing wrong and that the fault lies with the carrier. It is still the seller's responsibility, though. It sucks that the seller is going to take a loss, but that is just how it is. Asking the buyer to share the burden is crazy. If they are willing to accept it, though, more power to them. I know that if a seller asked me to accept a partial refund and refused to give all of my money back I would be filing a paypal claim and leaving a negative feedback. I would definitely sympathize with the buyer, but it isn't my responsibility.

Anyway,

As for the OP and his issue, the tracking number has updated with activity and it seems the package was misdirected but is now on the way to being delivered. I have spoken with the seller in question and it seems there was more to the story than the OP has let on. Some people in here, including myself, jumped to conclusions without hearing both sides of the story.

Mods have already been contacted and things are getting resolved, so there is no sense in continuing the discussion of seller responsibility in this thread. If we're still going to talk about this, we should create a new thread in an appropriate forum and direct the discussion there.

Good thing this was only a $22 game

It is very important to make the distinction between a private seller, and a retail outlet. This is NOT by any means, a store, and that is important when determining responsibility. The seller is NOT responsible for the item once it leaves their hands, and yes most stores if you want to protect your item in shipping, you have to request it, and pay extra for insurance. Generally it's called using UPS, since it's auto insured, but occasionally you can just buy extra USPS insurance, but it is the buyers responsibility.

Additionally, there are plenty of situations where a retail outlet will leave you out in the cold in regards to getting your items. You are taking for granted that Amazon, and big outlets with reputations to uphold will go above and beyond to satisfy a whiny customer, but a small mom and pop organization, can easily just say "no, it's not my problem", because it isn't. It usually doesn't happen, but its a very real possibility.

Look, bottom line. The Seller has a responsibility to make good in some way, but not with a 100% refund. This is a community, not a store. This is an individual, not a corporation with insurance, he can recap his costs for lost/stolen items. Asking the seller is a jerk move, and gouging him for double the costs spent, he lost the items, and the payment, that's BS. Fairest condition, assuming there was no foul play, and all parities made no mistakes is a half refund.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']It is very important to make the distinction between a private seller, and a retail outlet. This is NOT by any means, a store, and that is important when determining responsibility. The seller is NOT responsible for the item once it leaves their hands, and yes most stores if you want to protect your item in shipping, you have to request it, and pay extra for insurance. Generally it's called using UPS, since it's auto insured, but occasionally you can just buy extra USPS insurance, but it is the buyers responsibility.

Additionally, there are plenty of situations where a retail outlet will leave you out in the cold in regards to getting your items. You are taking for granted that Amazon, and big outlets with reputations to uphold will go above and beyond to satisfy a whiny customer, but a small mom and pop organization, can easily just say "no, it's not my problem", because it isn't. It usually doesn't happen, but its a very real possibility.

Look, bottom line. The Seller has a responsibility to make good in some way, but not with a 100% refund. This is a community, not a store. This is an individual, not a corporation with insurance, he can recap his costs for lost/stolen items. Asking the seller is a jerk move, and gouging him for double the costs spent, he lost the items, and the payment, that's BS. Fairest condition, assuming there was no foul play, and all parities made no mistakes is a half refund.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely 100% wrong and you will not be able to find any valid information to back up what you claim to be true.

This is NOT by any means, a store, and that is important when determining responsibility. The seller is NOT responsible for the item once it leaves their hands,

Click to expand...

False.

and yes most stores if you want to protect your item in shipping, you have to request it, and pay extra for insurance.

Click to expand...

False.

Generally it's called using UPS, since it's auto insured, but occasionally you can just buy extra USPS insurance, but it is the buyers responsibility.

Click to expand...

False.

but a small mom and pop organization, can easily just say "no, it's not my problem", because it isn't. It usually doesn't happen, but its a very real possibility.

Click to expand...

False.

Asking the seller is a jerk move, and gouging him for double the costs spent, he lost the items, and the payment, that's BS. Fairest condition, assuming there was no foul play, and all parities made no mistakes is a half refund.

Click to expand...

False.

Actually none of that is false, and just coming in here and claiming that it is means nothing. You can go now, Thanks.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']Actually none of that is false, and just coming in here and claiming that it is means nothing. You can go now, Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Again if we time warped back to 1999 some of that would be true. But as it stands today, if you are conducting business and you accepted PayPal or any type of payment that is backed by a credit card everything you mentioned is false; regardless if you are a small seller or Walmart.com

I don't trade on CAG but if you can point out where it states in the Trading Forum that the seller has no responsibility for the item once it leaves their possession I'll recant my statements.

In modern day eCommerce it is 100% the sellers responsibility to make sure they can show proof that the item was delivered based on the T&C set forth by the merchant they used to accept paypment. If it is PayPal you must show that the item was delivered to the zip code in which the buyer lives (under $250) or you must show signature confirmation if the purchase is over $250 (lemme guess.... it's the buyers responsibility to pay for signature confirmation.... right? right? WRONG).

Most Credit Card companies have identical policies.

Where this was a transaction that wasn't funded by either (trade on a trading forum) then the seller must adhere to whatever policies are in place on CAG.

Where one party received the goods as described and assuming the other party doesn't (the tracking has updated so let's hope they do) then the person who mailed the game is 100% at fault.

They chose to ship the item by USPS. That was their choice. It's pretty ing simple.

[quote name='GBAstar']Again if we time warped back to 1999 some of that would be true. But as it stands today, if you are conducting business and you accepted PayPal or any type of payment that is backed by a credit card everything you mentioned is false; regardless if you are a small seller or Walmart.com

I don't trade on CAG but if you can point out where it states in the Trading Forum that the seller has no responsibility for the item once it leaves their possession I'll recant my statements.

In modern day eCommerce it is 100% the sellers responsibility to make sure they can show proof that the item was delivered based on the T&C set forth by the merchant they used to accept paypment. If it is PayPal you must show that the item was delivered to the zip code in which the buyer lives (under $250) or you must show signature confirmation if the purchase is over $250 (lemme guess.... it's the buyers responsibility to pay for signature confirmation.... right? right? WRONG).

Most Credit Card companies have identical policies.

Where this was a transaction that wasn't funded by either (trade on a trading forum) then the seller must adhere to whatever policies are in place on CAG.

Where one party received the goods as described and assuming the other party doesn't (the tracking has updated so let's hope they do) then the person who mailed the game is 100% at fault.

They chose to ship the item by USPS. That was their choice. It's pretty ing simple.[/QUOTE]

False, not a store, end of story.

Point out on the trading forum on where is says there is this specific responsibility, What, You can't? Exactly.

Now your statements are are just getting ridiculous, you show me one store that give 100% free, constant signature confirmation, or UPS ground, or Fed Ex, none of them do. Of course it's on the seller to pay extra of shipping protection, especially in a non-store environment.

There is a reason there is a 2 - 5 day USPS Priority, and a 2 - 5 day UPS Ground, that cost different prices. Cause one is insured, and it's up to the buyer to pay for it.

These arguments don't matter, cause this isn't a store, that's all there is to it. This is a TRADING community, not a store, and the rules are different.

[quote name='DoubleEcksZero']False, not a store, end of story.

Point out on the trading forum on where is says there is this specific responsibility, What, You can't? Exactly.

Now your statements are are just getting ridiculous, you show me one store that give 100% free, constant signature confirmation, or UPS ground, or Fed Ex, none of them do. Of course it's on the seller to pay extra of shipping protection, especially in a non-store environment.

There is a reason there is a 2 - 5 day USPS Priority, and a 2 - 5 day UPS Ground, that cost different prices. Cause one is insured, and it's up to the buyer to pay for it.

These arguments don't matter, cause this isn't a store, that's all there is to it. This is a TRADING community, not a store, and the rules are different.[/QUOTE]

For any shipment, regardless of shipping method, it is highly recommended to add in a delivery confirmation, either picked up at the shipper's cost, or worked into the shipping price for the item. It's a small money expense that can add in some peace of mind for both parties, knowing that they both can keep an eye on it via the USPS website, which can be set up to send out email status updates for the package. If the item is either expensive, hard to replace, or both, insurance for the item(s)' worth is a very good idea, either assumed at the shipper's cost or worked into the shipping cost. It's a very good idea to PM (or email) the buyer the DC for the box being shipped, so they can track the item as it's being shipped.

Click to expand...

Derpity Derp Derp

The buyer fulfilled his obligation by paying for the item.

The seller's obligation was to ensure the item reached its destination and was in the condition that was stated. His end has yet to be fulfilled.

I would side with the buyer and say he either should receive the game in which he paid for or a refund of $22.