[CheapyD]

The gang talks about the new Xbox One DRM policy shift, E3 swag etiquette, Marvel Heroes and much more.  Stay tuned after the show for all 5 mini-podcasts, recorded on location at E3 2013.
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Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: One More Time/Daft Punk - One Day at a Time Closing Credits
 
CAGcast #327 - 0-1h 15m 39s
Microsoft Press Conference - 1h 15m 41s
Sony Press Conference - 1h 42m 36s
Day 1 - 1h 57m 10s
Day 2 - 2h 24m 2s
Day 3 - 2h 40m 12s
Grab the audioboos separately/via RSS
 
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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.

[Neo]

I'm looking forward to this, since Cheapy completely predicted the reversal of Microsoft's policies happening within a few days last week.

[io]

Hmm - my cable appears to be on the fritz - so listen to this I will...

 

Ah, Ship, you found out!  I told you it was great for the first one, anyway, to make it a surprise (does no one do this any more!?).  Oh well, congrats - I have two of that kind (one 16, one 3) so if you need any advice never hesitate to ask .

[RandyNDee]

Awesome already got it downloaded at work. Can't wait to hear it.

[detectiveconan16]

"Gamer's rights" apply to those who live in their parents' basements.  We whine about how Microsoft or EA is screwing us over, but when some other company in some other field is screwing us over in food, environment, education, etc, we'll gladly ignore those and tolerate it with a grin in our face.

 

Guys, did you think "Man of Steel" was worse than Green Lantern?  That's what one blogger I read said.

[sunfiredragon]

I haven't listened to this yet, so forgive me if you talk about it this week. I was wondering if you guys would talk about Microsoft's new plan to convert MSP over to actual local currency, specifically that any converted values will be subject to a one year expiration. I know a lot of people on here have stockpiled points (myself included) and I am pretty concerned about it.

 

What motivation could they possibly have to do this other than just greed?!

 

It seems like they have made the right decisions in regards to backing off of DRM, but I have yet to hear any amendments to their new MSP policies.

[Curufinwe]

Unfortunately, people who stockpiled MS Points are a tiny minority who MS can get away with screwing over.  I stopped maintaining a Points balance of over 100 because of all the Xbox Live accounts that got stolen, and I only have one 800 Point card left to redeem.  But I do feel bad for people in your situation.  The one year time limit sucks.

[Condor80]

I'm only about 10 minutes in but wanted to comment before I forgot what I wanted to write.

 

Congrats ship, that's great news! Where in your mansion is the nursery going?  

 

Let the wombat bashing begin... I don't see what the big deal is about taking the free stuff.  Isn't that what it's there for? 

 

 

Hmm - my cable appears to be on the fritz - so listen to this I will...

 

Ah, Ship, you found out!  I told you it was great for the first one, anyway, to make it a surprise (does no one do this any more!?).  Oh well, congrats - I have two of that kind (one 16, one 3) so if you need any advice never hesitate to ask .

 

I think it's a small percentage now.  We didn't find out for our first and everyone we talked tot was surprised we didn't.  

[4thHorseman]

Ship, nothing wrong about talking to the homeless. I think with Wombat being from New York, he may have been desensitized to it while us in the midwest don't run across it anywhere near as much.

 

And congratulations on the little girl!

 

Also, you all need to get together more often. I love hearing you all talk about your escapades.

[Kerig]

Longest. CAGCast. Ever.

 

 

 

OK, not really.  It's just the audioboos afterwards turning the file into GiantBombcast length

[40_ounce]

Can't wait to listen to this. I do all my podcast listening at work, so i guess I have to wait until 6pm tonight.

[stingray2772]

I fail to see the problem with Wombat getting some swag. Maybe it is because I feel I'd do the same, but if the stuff is there to be taken, take it. Regardless of him getting T-Shirts and whatever else, I see no problem with him getting a Hot Wheels... true it is a cheap toy, but he's giving it to his son, come on - jeez.

 

EDIT: How can a Halo wallet be horrible?!

[LiK]

All dat E3 swag.

Also, Marvel Heroes is not in beta anymore. It's the final game. And each of the bundle packs are $85. Ouch.

[mwmike11]

You guys were spot on with your thoughts on the Xbox One. Yes, it is annoying they took EVERYTHING out just to get at the check-ins, and I'm thinking we might see those creep back in later on down the road. Personally, the only one that was making me scratch my head was the whole bit about needing a check in for games being played off the disc tray. There really was no need for it. It will not be interesting to see what will come next from Xbox One, though I'm still holding off on getting one for a couple years. Want to get more life out of my 360 before diving in.

[my2k2zx2]

Thanks Ship, didnt know there were freebies in the Starbucks app.

[AvidWriter]

At first I was like "WHAT 3 hours!" then I saw you added the audio boos.

[firehawk12]

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

 

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange.  If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

 

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time.  I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same.

[twiceborn]

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

 

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange.  If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

 

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time.  I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same..

Yeah, they totally flipped on that point.

[painkillah]

Wow 10GB in 10min? Is that just a guess or what? That would be around 200Mb/s or 20MB/s. How much you pay per month? The US is just getting 100Mb/s in some areas and the normal rate is $100+ a month. Our infrastructure is behind. I am waiting for my provider to go from 50 to 100. My mom lives less than 30 miles from me and she can only get Uverse. 

[shipwreck]

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange. If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time. I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same.

I'm fairly certain that I didn't think Sony was competent enough to pull off this kind of DRM strategy, but I don't really care if I was right or not. Overall I was just confident that one of these companies was not in a position to implement this without the other doing it as well.

[guardian_owl]

I imagine it is not a mistake, the US's internet blows in comparison to a lot of other industrialized countries.

 

Bottom line, Microsoft thought they could go it alone with their more strict DRM practices because they were the big dog in the previous gen. It is only after the large amount of bad press in legitimate media and less preorders compared to the PS4 did they relent. It is a similar mistake Sony made when they tried to get away with selling the PS3 at such a high cost at launch because the PS2 was the big dog in the previous gen.

 

Why are you assuming publisher's didn't ask for / suggest the more draconian DRM to allow revenue sharing on used games sales? I don't imagine it was a coincidence EA began to dismantle project $10 around the same time many of Xbox's 1 features were close to announcement.

 

I quite like Lord of the Ring's Online system for equipables. You have head, arm, leg, armor, etc. slots which add to stat boosting and then you have a second identical set of slots for your visual armament. So if you love the stats on a piece of armor but think visually it looks hideous, you can still equip it, but then choose something else to display instead. No more wearing goofy/mismatched armor pieces just because they have the best stats.

[shipwreck]

Why are you assuming publisher's didn't ask for / suggest the more draconian DRM to allow revenue sharing on used games sales? I don't imagine it was a coincidence EA began to dismantle project $10 around the same time many of Xbox's 1 features were close to announcement.

It's not all assumption. We talk to people at E3 that know things and the overall message we were getting from everyone was that this did not come from publishers and many publishers/developers did not want it.

[ZombieJeebus]

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

 

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange.  If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

 

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time.  I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same.

 

I forget which one, but in one of the Audioboos Cheapy (and Ship I think) said that MS will back off the DRM.  Probably the 'boo following the Sony presser.  So you could say they were right either way. 

[David Hibiki]

Wombat is so #SWAGYOLO

First thing I thought of on the whole MS 180? Cheapy D. He has a nice crystal ball... 

[firehawk12]

 

I'm fairly certain that I didn't think Sony was competent enough to pull off this kind of DRM strategy, but I don't really care if I was right or not. Overall I was just confident that one of these companies was not in a position to implement this without the other doing it as well.

 

Sure, but I think, probably rightly so, that everyone just assumed that Microsoft wouldn't be the one to drastically reverse their position after spending all this time and money engineering their DRM scheme in the first place.  Millions must have been spent developing the point of sale system for "select retailers" alone.

 

 

I forget which one, but in one of the Audioboos Cheapy (and Ship I think) said that MS will back off the DRM.  Probably the 'boo following the Sony presser.  So you could say they were right either way. 

 

Hah, that's fair.  Seeing all those Major Nelson interviews though, I had my doubts!

[itachiitachi]

 

Why are you assuming publisher's didn't ask for / suggest the more draconian DRM to allow revenue sharing on used games sales? I don't imagine it was a coincidence EA began to dismantle project $10 around the same time many of Xbox's 1 features were close to announcement.

It's not all assumption. We talk to people at E3 that know things and the overall message we were getting from everyone was that this did not come from publishers and many publishers/developers did not want it.

 

What people in the know? All that we've been hearing for months is that the publishers have been pushing for DRM. Many of the publishers have had a history of pushing draconian DRM and trying to stop used game sales.

 

Last podcast you guys where saying something along the lines of MS wasn't stupid, So do you really think MS said "You know what would be a great idea, what if we take a huge PR hit by anouncing DRM and no used games, even though publishers are saying they want this"?

[trip1eX]

I could care less about the nextbox policies.  I wish the vocal internets would complain about digital game prices.  If digital game prices were lowered by $10 or even $20  then you'd see most folks buying digital versions because of the price and convenience.  This would eliminate used games for the most part since few would have a reason to buy discs.  MS could make a Blu-Ray-less nextbox sku for $50 less.  Problem solved.  EVeryone wins, but retailers maybe.

 

As for retailers, digital gaming is a matter of when not if so might as well get it over with now. Some retailers would inevitably carry the discs anyway.  If ABC retailer  didn't want to carry disc games then gamers would direct their blind rage toward the retailer.  MS wins that battle.

 

Now we are back to stone ages and there is little reason to not buy the disc.  Not when you can save so much more money when you buy a disc due to trade-in value.  

[trip1eX]

You guys could be right about the nextbox.  But I'd say your reasoning is flawed or at least there are just as good if not better reasons why nextbox won't do as well.

 

Shipwreck seems to say because the 360 had a great install base then the nextbox will.   But history says that is no guarantee.  If anything videogaming seems to annoint a new king every couple of generations.  I can only guess that it is because the king gets too full of himself and that his main customers are kids who have no previous loyalties.  

 

Cheapie says the $100 higher pricepoint won't hurt.  But history shows pricepoint means alot.  It hurt the PS3 this past generation.  The market is fairly price sensitive.   You saw how the 360/PS3 got off to a slow start this past generation.

 

Shipwreck says the nextbox will sell out at launch.  But that doesn't mean much either.  The PS3 sold out at launch.  And then proceeded to have slow sales especially here in North America for a long period of time.   

 

The other problem with Kinect, besides adding $100 to the cost of a nextbox, is 25 million people already bought it - most of them in North America I assume and those sales are all in the last 2-3 years max.  Try to explain to them that Kinect 2.0 is better and why they should pay $500 for it or another $100 over a PS?  don't forget to add that their family's old Kinect games won't work with it.  Good luck with that.  And that's assuming they actually  like Kinect and didn't see it as nothing more than a fun tech demo that is now gathering dust.  That's a big question mark. Kinect never had any great selling games.  

 

Then there's the motion control problem.  The problem with motion control for gaming is the lag between doing a motion and the device registering it.  And the fact that you have to program in a lot of leeway for any particular motion because of the wide variety of players out there.  Thus you end up with simple motions that turn out to be nothing more than button press substitutes or just waggle-type controls and you get a lag on top of it.  If Nintendo can't do much more than WiiSports with their motion control including wiimote 2.0  then I'm not liking the chances of Kinect 2.0 gaming amounting to much.  

 

So I think Sony at this point is in a strong position hardware-wise.  They have an opening whereas before they didn't.  If there isn't enough differentiation in these boxes that gamers care about then Sony comes out looking better.   And I think the reality is gamers don't care much about Kinect.  I think MS only included it to try to be everything to everybody.  To try and get some of Nintendo's market.  I just think it could come back to bite them.  It could put them in no-man's land.  Kids could care less about better graphics and Kinect 2.0. Parents aren't going to keep buying $60 Kinect shovelware either.  

 

But ultimately, as always, it really comes down to the games.  What console is going to provide that great new experience you can't get elsewhere?  I'd say that is usually the console that does the best.

 

Even Kinect could be saved with some great new idea that no one saw coming.  There's always a puncher's chance.  

[evophile]

 

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange. If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time. I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same.

I'm fairly certain that I didn't think Sony was competent enough to pull off this kind of DRM strategy, but I don't really care if I was right or not. Overall I was just confident that one of these companies was not in a position to implement this without the other doing it as well.

 

Yeah you defintely said that Shipwreck regarding Sony.

 

It was really Cheapy who was claiming that -MS won't do it unless Sony is as well (not the other way around or any variation)-, not only on the CAGcast but on 8-4 as well. Now claiming he was always right through some roundabout technicality.

 

I still love you guys! Glad to hear you all had a blast at e3

[SeanAmI]

 

 

The Wombat swag thing was hilarious as usual. :p

That said, the whole "we were right" thing about the DRM was a bit strange. If you go back and listen to the episode, you guys do say that they'll both do the same thing - except the assumption that you were making was that Sony would be forced to implement DRM, not the other way around.

Basically the assumption that all the gaming press made at the time. I don't think anyone confidently predicted that Sony would forego DRM entirely and force Microsoft to do the same.

I'm fairly certain that I didn't think Sony was competent enough to pull off this kind of DRM strategy, but I don't really care if I was right or not. Overall I was just confident that one of these companies was not in a position to implement this without the other doing it as well.

 

Yeah you defintely said that Shipwreck regarding Sony.

 

It was really Cheapy who was claiming that -MS won't do it unless Sony is as well (not the other way around or any variation)-, not only on the CAGcast but on 8-4 as well. Now claiming he was always right through some roundabout technicality.

 

I still love you guys! Glad to hear you all had a blast at e3

 

Yeah, you are right on both points. Shipwreck was the one who was right.

 

Congrats again on the baby Shipwreck.

 

It was annoying to hear that you guys were ragging on Wombat again this year. He obviously looks forward to E3 and seeing you guys.

There's nothing wrong with someone on a site called "Cheap Ass Gamer" getting some free swag.