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GOP’s hideous strategy to survive as the “white party”


#31 GBAstar   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9173 Posts   Joined 4.5 Years Ago  

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:03 AM

Only people who own land should vote, right, fellas?

Witty.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. But I'd imagine when you're trying to figure out where you're going to sleep for the night and when your next hot meal is going to be that remembering to renew your ID ain't exactly what you'd call a top priority. But Fuck 'em they're poor, probably only homeless cause they're too lazy anyway, right?

 

State ID's tend to not expire for 10 years. Even with an expired ID at least you have proof of person. The only excuse a homeless person should have for being homeless 10+ years is if it is mental health related---and at that point a lost vote is a good vote--but I'm sure you'd prefer they be shuttled down to vote for your guy, severe schizophrenia and all. 



#32 UncleBob  

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:01 AM

I do have to wonder how high of a priority voting is for a homeless individual.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#33 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6054 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:21 AM

Technically we are all born homeless...


wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#34 RedvsBlue  

RedvsBlue

Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

Witty.



State ID's tend to not expire for 10 years. Even with an expired ID at least you have proof of person. The only excuse a homeless person should have for being homeless 10+ years is if it is mental health related---and at that point a lost vote is a good vote--but I'm sure you'd prefer they be shuttled down to vote for your guy, severe schizophrenia and all.


Hmm, must have missed MN in your study there professor, cause theirs expire in 4 years. Still, tell us more about this. You've found that the sole cause of homelessness longer than 10 years is mental health issues. What about homlessness less than 10 years, what's the leading cause there?

#35 GBAstar   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9173 Posts   Joined 4.5 Years Ago  

Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:13 PM

Hmm, must have missed MN in your study there professor, cause theirs expire in 4 years. Still, tell us more about this. You've found that the sole cause of homelessness longer than 10 years is mental health issues. What about homlessness less than 10 years, what's the leading cause there?

 

A state ID expires four years after being issued? I don't believe that for a second. Not even a passport expires in four years (assuming you're over 18 when it is issued).

 

Four years? hahah okay. Sure you're not talking about a Driver's License? 

 

But it's good you'd like to nitpick rather then try and explain a good reason, other then homelessness, as to why someone shouldn't have access to getting a government issued ID.

 

And either homelessness is a shitty excuse as many are in and out of government funded shelters.



#36 RedvsBlue  

RedvsBlue

Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

A state ID expires four years after being issued? I don't believe that for a second. Not even a passport expires in four years (assuming you're over 18 when it is issued).

Four years? hahah okay. Sure you're not talking about a Driver's License?

But it's good you'd like to nitpick rather then try and explain a good reason, other then homelessness, as to why someone shouldn't have access to getting a government issued ID.

And either homelessness is a shitty excuse as many are in and out of government funded shelters.

http://www.dmv.org/m...ta/id-cards.php

Renew Your Minnesota ID Card
Your MN state ID card will have an expiration date based on your age:

Under 21 years old: Upon turning 21 years old.
Under 65 years old: 4 years after issuance (on your birthday).
Over 65 years old: No expiration.

Really difficult google work there, particularly when I gave you the state to begin with...

Also, interesting that I'm "nitpicking" by pointing out that an estimated 2-3 million people likely live without an ID and thus would be unable to vote rather than anyone explaining why those 2-3 million homeless people who likely don't have IDs don't deserve to vote. But keep on moving those goal posts...

So, for those watching at home we've asked who lives without an ID, I answer homeless. The only response? Well no one is homeless more than 10 years unless they have mental issues. Refute with evidence that at least one state has IDs that expire in much less than 10 years. The response? I don't believe you, you haven't shown anything. And no evidence to support claim that the only people who are homeless more than 10 years have mental health issues.

#37 egofed   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   997 Posts   Joined 8.7 Years Ago  

Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:23 PM

You have to have an ID to enter the Democratic National Convention or the White House. Hannity or Rush said it just yesterday... O:)



#38 Msut77   Occam's Shank CAGiversary!   6054 Posts   Joined 10.5 Years Ago  

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:04 AM

You have to have an ID to enter the Democratic National Convention or the White House. Hannity or Rush said it just yesterday... O:)

wzQnWdL.gif


wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#39 bigdaddybruce44   Murders & Executions CAGiversary!   13288 Posts   Joined 7.4 Years Ago  

bigdaddybruce44

Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:03 PM

I dont consider it relevant. It is not illegal to be without ID, if there was a national ID card maybe.

 

But I was mentioning in another thread, it can be considered discrimination and is called disparate impact.

Just because it's not illegal to not have ID doesn't mean it makes any sense. Everyone should have a form of ID. In NJ, it's $24 for 4 years. That's $6 a year.



#40 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   36382 Posts   Joined 10.8 Years Ago  

Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:18 PM

I'd say that's a straw man. You're unlikely to find people here saying it's *sensible* to not carry an ID.

 

You will find people saying it is discriminatory and an indirect poll tax to require ID in order to participate in a democracy.


Posted Image

#41 ElwoodCuse   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1551 Posts   Joined 11.4 Years Ago  

ElwoodCuse

Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

you have to produce all kinds of documentation to vote even though there is no such thing as in-person voter fraud, but we should give guns without a second's thought to anyone who wants them in a country where tens of thousands of people each year are killed by firearms. cool!


But when his drinking and lusting and his hunger for power became known to more and more people, the demands to do something about this outrageous man became louder and louder.

#42 irideabike   no show CAGiversary!   6027 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

irideabike

Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:05 AM

don't you have to go through a background check to get a gun?  and hasn't gun ownership gone down in america in the last 50 years?  do you own a gun?  have you ever been through the background check process?  have you ever read about a gun killing someone without a person firing it?  and doesn't that have nothing to do with the entire conversation here?  and isn't birdman the greatest thing to happen to the miami heat?  and isn't it awesome that subaru is such an environmentally friendly company?  with cars safe for your whole family?  and isn't my pizza done and I have to go pick it up from my friendly local pizza place?  good day lad.


There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

Madden 13 SB Champ in the CAG gentleman's league.


#43 10Manning10   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   8 Posts   Joined 5.6 Years Ago  

10Manning10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:36 PM

Voting is a Right. Voting should not be a Maybe..



#44 UncleBob  

Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:04 AM

Voting is a Right.


The Supreme Court (and the Constitution of the United States) would disagree with you.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#45 RPGNinja   CAG in Training CAGiversary!   378 Posts   Joined 2.3 Years Ago  

RPGNinja

Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:06 AM

Please tell me... you don't actually believe what Salon says?

They are like MSNBC online.

#46 Rasen   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   693 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

don't you have to go through a background check to get a gun?  and hasn't gun ownership gone down in america in the last 50 years?  do you own a gun?  have you ever been through the background check process?  have you ever read about a gun killing someone without a person firing it?  and doesn't that have nothing to do with the entire conversation here?  and isn't birdman the greatest thing to happen to the miami heat?  and isn't it awesome that subaru is such an environmentally friendly company?  with cars safe for your whole family?  and isn't my pizza done and I have to go pick it up from my friendly local pizza place?  good day lad.

 

 

http://www.gallup.co...ghest-1993.aspx



#47 Rasen   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   693 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:17 PM

I'd say that's a straw man. You're unlikely to find people here saying it's *sensible* to not carry an ID.

 

You will find people saying it is discriminatory and an indirect poll tax to require ID in order to participate in a democracy.

 

One thing I never considered, until a friend pointed it out to me, was that in the cities, where it's often more convenient to walk than drive, there are people who don't have driver's licenses because they don't need a car or can't afford one. And then from there, what kind of people live in cities and can't afford cars?

 

I don't know how accurate their argument was, but it DID make me at least consider there might be other reasons to not have a driver's license than my original stance of "they be lazy/crazy or illegal."



#48 UncleBob  

Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:04 AM

How does one get a job without showing photo ID though? Most any legitimate job is going to require two forms of ID, one being a photo ID, so they can fill out the government-required I-9 tax forms.

Do I hear anyone complaining about this "tax" (i.e.: getting an ID) to get taxed?

Also, cashing a check (payroll?) most anywhere requires a photo ID. Virtually any kind of bank account require an ID to get. Most any kind of apartment complex is going to require a photo ID... and there's almost no way you're going to get a bank loan for a house without an ID. You're probably going to have to show ID if you want to take any kind of college courses or even get a library card. Many forms of public assistance require a photo ID when you sign up...

Plus, this all ignores the fact that in many states where Voter ID laws have been passed/considered, the fee for an ID is waved (example: Kansas - http://www.ksrevenue...df/DE-VID1.pdf)
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#49 bigdaddybruce44   Murders & Executions CAGiversary!   13288 Posts   Joined 7.4 Years Ago  

bigdaddybruce44

Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:40 AM

I guess they are "living off the grid."

 

Waiving the fee doesn't solve anything, because opponents find another excuse. The most popular is that people don't have the time (work too many hours, can't leave their families, etc.) or the means (transportation) to visit an agency to get the ID issued. Oddly enough, I guess they do find the time to vote, though. If we found a way to deliver them to everyone's doorsteps, they would still cook up an excuse as to why voters shouldn't need an ID.



#50 dohdough   Sum Dum Guy CAGiversary!   6375 Posts   Joined 5.8 Years Ago  

Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:00 AM

I guess they are "living off the grid."
 
Waiving the fee doesn't solve anything, because opponents find another excuse. The most popular is that people don't have the time (work too many hours, can't leave their families, etc.) or the means (transportation) to visit an agency to get the ID issued. Oddly enough, I guess they do find the time to vote, though. If we found a way to deliver them to everyone's doorsteps, they would still cook up an excuse as to why voters shouldn't need an ID.


Lemme know when those offices don't have limited hours and don't disproportionately affect black and Latino communities.

I don't know what kind of podunk town you live in where you have to drive to your voting booth, but in cities, there are polling stations within 10 minutes walk of eachother...and even then, there are volunteers shuttling those that can't make it on their own throughout the entire day. Unless you're telling me that DMV's are more plentiful than polling stations of course...in which case, you'd be a total loon.

All this is irrelevant anyways because in-person voting fraud is statistically insignificant. I mean shit, you can't even get someone elected to the school board with it. It's almost as if you and your ilk think that anyone can just show up to vote and not have their voter registration checked. It's fucking ridiculous.

Oh and before anyone chimes in about how "dohdough hates whitey" or "what about rural areas," there should be systems in place to help them too, but honestly, I can't be assed to offer up solutions when dumb cons can't even get basic concepts of scale right.
dohdough.png


"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#51 irideabike   no show CAGiversary!   6027 Posts   Joined 6.4 Years Ago  

irideabike

Posted 03 June 2014 - 12:59 PM

can't believe dohdough hates whitey and doesn't care about rural areas.  and podunks.  he hates them.  ugh.


There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

Madden 13 SB Champ in the CAG gentleman's league.


#52 UncleBob  

Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:10 PM

Lemme know when those offices don't have limited hours and don't disproportionately affect black and Latino communities.


I wonder if DD would support a bill that no longer requires employers to fill out I-9 tax documents on their employees. Since these documents require employees to show photo ID, this requirement would also "disproportionately affect black and Latino communities."
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#53 bigdaddybruce44   Murders & Executions CAGiversary!   13288 Posts   Joined 7.4 Years Ago  

bigdaddybruce44

Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:55 PM

dohdough hates white people and only cares about dazzling urbanites.

 

Anyway, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how people function in society without an ID...



#54 Rasen   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   693 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:57 PM

dohdough hates white people and only cares about dazzling urbanites.

 

Anyway, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how people function in society without an ID...

 

I suppose it comes down to how often do you actually have to show an ID. I don't think I've had to show an ID since I was last called for jury duty 2 years ago.

 

What are the activities that require showing an ID? Creating a bank account? Driving a car? So if you don't have those, you don't need an ID.

 

And I know you can deposit checks so long as you know the account number and if necessary endorse the check, so...not much need there either. 



#55 bigdaddybruce44   Murders & Executions CAGiversary!   13288 Posts   Joined 7.4 Years Ago  

bigdaddybruce44

Posted 03 June 2014 - 08:12 PM

Well, as UncleBob mentioned, you do need one to fill out an I-9. So, in order to get (and, in some cases, even apply) for just about any job, you need ID. I would think that right there would be all of the reasons one would need, but yes, as you pointed out, opening a bank account and driving a car are two others. Purchasing things like tobacco, alcohol, guns, and cell phone contracts also require ID, though with tobacco and alcohol, that is not always the case.

 

On a related note, a bank account is another thing that every responsible adult should have.



#56 Rasen   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   693 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:48 PM

Well, as UncleBob mentioned, you do need one to fill out an I-9. So, in order to get (and, in some cases, even apply) for just about any job, you need ID. I would think that right there would be all of the reasons one would need, but yes, as you pointed out, opening a bank account and driving a car are two others. Purchasing things like tobacco, alcohol, guns, and cell phone contracts also require ID, though with tobacco and alcohol, that is not always the case.

 

On a related note, a bank account is another thing that every responsible adult should have.

 

In this wonderful age of the internet, I haven't had to fill out an I-9 when applying....ever, I think. And while I probably filled out an I-9 form before to work, I don't recall having to whip out my ID.

 

Regarding tobacco, alcohol, and guns, those aren't necessary for functioning in society. And just a guess, but one of those semi-disposable phones you can pick up from Safeway or CVS, that don't have a contract, I don't think they require ID either. (If so, please correct me.)

 

Finally, while every responsible adult should have a bank account, the average household and credit card debt in the US tells me a lot of adults aren't that responsible. Also, a family probably only needs one bank account. Not every member needs to get it, just one. So only one ID needed per family. Or if you're living paycheck to paycheck, a bank account is almost useless. (And what are the demographics of people who live from paycheck to paycheck?)

 

None of this is being said to advocate a stance, except that I think that a photo ID plays a much smaller role to functioning in society than you think.



#57 bigdaddybruce44   Murders & Executions CAGiversary!   13288 Posts   Joined 7.4 Years Ago  

bigdaddybruce44

Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:13 AM

My apologies. Poor choice of words earlier. I did not mean to suggest that you ever fill out the I-9 before taking a job offer. I meant that some jobs ask to see ID during the interview process. An I-9 should not be filled out prior to the acceptance of a job offer. But once you start a job, you NEED to show the employer proof of identity and employment authorization. Surprised that you filled out an I-9 and was not asked for ID. Technically, the employer could be fined, though, I have no clue how tightly that is monitored. All I know is that every job I've ever had required ID to accept (either my license and social security card or just my passport).

 

As far as prepaid phones go, I know that in the past they did not require any form of ID to purchase, but I also remember many lawmakers wanting to change that, due to their usage in illegal activities, especially terrorism. I honestly do not have the answer to that.



#58 UncleBob  

Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:57 AM

But once you start a job, you NEED to show the employer proof of identity and employment authorization.


This. Virtually every employer in the US is required to verify proper ID when completing your I-9 (this is a form your employer fills out, not you) in order to employ you. This is a Federal requirement. It's like a tax for getting taxed (if you believe having a photo ID is a tax, that is).


Or if you're living paycheck to paycheck, a bank account is almost useless. (And what are the demographics of people who live from paycheck to paycheck?)


How does one get a paycheck (or any kind of check) cashed without Photo ID? Are there reputable places that will cash checks without requiring a photo ID? The only exception that I can think of is if you're depositing it into your bank account - which, of course, requires photo ID to set up.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#59 Rasen   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   693 Posts   Joined 9.8 Years Ago  

Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:07 PM

My apologies. Poor choice of words earlier. I did not mean to suggest that you ever fill out the I-9 before taking a job offer. I meant that some jobs ask to see ID during the interview process. An I-9 should not be filled out prior to the acceptance of a job offer. But once you start a job, you NEED to show the employer proof of identity and employment authorization. Surprised that you filled out an I-9 and was not asked for ID. Technically, the employer could be fined, though, I have no clue how tightly that is monitored. All I know is that every job I've ever had required ID to accept (either my license and social security card or just my passport).

 

As far as prepaid phones go, I know that in the past they did not require any form of ID to purchase, but I also remember many lawmakers wanting to change that, due to their usage in illegal activities, especially terrorism. I honestly do not have the answer to that.

 

To bring it back to the topic though, would a social security card be a valid form of ID for the voting restrictions that were being attempted to put into place? Unless they've radically changed the format since I received mine, it's a cheap piece of paper with no photo or security measures to prevent forgery.

 

 

How does one get a paycheck (or any kind of check) cashed without Photo ID? Are there reputable places that will cash checks without requiring a photo ID? The only exception that I can think of is if you're depositing it into your bank account - which, of course, requires photo ID to set up.

 

Which is why I mentioned the possibility that not everyone in a family needs to have a bank account, just one. Assuming a particularly responsible family, everyone else can just endorse a check to the account holder and problem solved.



#60 UncleBob  

Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

Which is why I mentioned the possibility that not everyone in a family needs to have a bank account, just one. Assuming a particularly responsible family, everyone else can just endorse a check to the account holder and problem solved.


I'm left wondering - how many families have a singular bank account in a singular name that is used to cash multiple checks? I can't imagine there's too many situations where the account is only in the husband's name and the wife isn't allowed access to the account (or the other way around)...
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."