CAGcast #492: Iron Fisted

CheapyD

CheapyD

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The gang talks Mass Effect: Andromeda, Iron Fist, Zelda, Horizon, Switch and so much more!

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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro - Men At Work - Land Down Under (Chachi & Paige Remix) Outro - Coleco's Head to Head Football Commercial
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Same experience with Snipperclips.  Fun.  I finished the 1-2 section with my 10 yr old.  And only yelled on a handful of puzzles.  But the default control setup is meh because of the bumper buttons on the sideways joycon (strap or no strap.)  You rotate quite a bit in the game using those buttons and  they aren't enjoyable to press.   

It bugged me so much I asked myself  whether the joycon could be held vertically with 2 hands comfortably and, at least for me, it feels just as good if not better than holding it sideways.  And then you can press the actual trigger/bumper buttons.  Plus there is no confusion as to what direction to hold the controller in the UI or game.  Maybe that's just me, but wish they supported a 2 handed vertical joycon control scheme for these local multiplayer games.  I think that would work good as un-traditional as it looks.

 
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I finished off Iron Fist in a week.  Honestly I wasn't interested in watching anything else until I was done with this.  It's very similar to all the other Netflix Marvel series.  If you like one you'll like them all.  If you don't like the others this won't be the one that changes your mind.

I also like Finn Jones as Iron Fist.  I'm tired of all these actors bulked up to pro wrestler level.  In the comics Danny Rand has always looked small while Luke Cage looks huge.  When they are together in the Defenders it's going to look a lot like the books

 
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Getting tired of the dismissal of critics by Cheapy. Stop taking Metacritic so seriously. Just read this excerpt from the Metacritic FAQ to see why:

I READ MANOHLA DARGIS' REVIEW OF [MOVIE NAME] AND I SWEAR IT SOUNDED LIKE A 90... WHY DID YOU SAY SHE GAVE IT AN 80?

-Many critics include some sort of grade for the movie, album, TV show, or game they are reviewing, whether it is on a 5-star scale, a 100-point scale, a letter grade, or other mark. However, plenty of other reviewers choose not to do this. Hey, that's great... they want you to actually read their review rather than just glance at a number. (Personally, we at Metacritic like to read reviews, which is one of the reasons we include a link to every full review on our site....we want you to read them too!)

HEY, I AM MANOHLA DARGIS, AND YOU SAID I GAVE THE MOVIE AN 80, WHEN REALLY I THINK IT’S A 90. WHAT GIVES?
-Now, if you are indeed the critic who wrote the review, and disagree with one of our scores, please Let us know and we'll change it.

This does happen from time to time, and many of the critics included on this site (such as Ms. Dargis) do indeed check their reviews (as well as those of their colleagues) on metacritic.com.

CAN YOU TELL ME HOW EACH OF THE DIFFERENT CRITICS ARE WEIGHTED IN YOUR FORMULA?
-Absolutely not.
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Just look at all the low reviews for Iron Fist. Most of them don't have scores at all. That means Metacritic gets to decide the number assigned to the review UNLESS the critic themselves decide to dispute the number. And even after all that, we don't know how each publication's review is weighted against each other.

We've become so sensitive to the way things are "scored" that it's really had an impact on our consumption of media. If you really care so much about reviews, find a publication you respect and stick to them. Personally, I'm a fan of Alan Sepinwall's TV reviews on Uproxx (formerly Hitfix). I'd much rather trust his reviews than some arbitrary aggregation site.

Games are the same thing. If I don't like Polygon (for example), why would I put so much emphasis on the number on Metacritic when I don't even know how much their score is weighted in the overall score? It's illogical.

 
 I'm on episode 10 and it's just not a good show.  There's a lot of script shit that makes no sense and Finn Jones is the worst actor in the entire show.  It's pretty disappointing when the main character actor sucks.

 
Daredevil season 2 really dragged for me because there was so much talking and not enough fighting. I do not mind story and character development as it is important for the show, but for a Marvel production, I also want eye candy. I struggled to get through season 2 of Daredevil because of this.

 
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Iron Fist. I liked the character arc of the Meachums. Count me on the side that disagreed with the critics. I enjoyed it. It wasn't as good as Daredevil or Jessica Jones, but I liked it better than Luke Cage. (Which I also liked but thought moved along way too slowly.)
Looking forward to The Defenders to see them all team up.

 
I've used the VUDUToGo desktop app to covert DVDs to an UltraViolet digital copy, but you had insert the disc in the DVD tray. The mobile app lets you just scan the cases barcode? So what's to stop somebody in Target scanning stuff on the shelves to get some cheap digital movies?

 
AriesDog said:
I've used the VUDUToGo desktop app to covert DVDs to an UltraViolet digital copy, but you had insert the disc in the DVD tray. The mobile app lets you just scan the cases barcode? So what's to stop somebody in Target scanning stuff on the shelves to get some cheap digital movies?
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Ha, I was thinking the same thing when Wombat mentioned just scanning the barcodes.

 
shanafan_cag said:
Daredevil season 2 really dragged for me because there was so much talking and not enough fighting. I do not mind story and character development as it is important for the show, but for a Marvel production, I also want eye candy. I struggled to get through season 2 of Daredevil because of this.
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You know, my biggest problem with DD S2 was The Hand stuff, I just wasn't interested in it, even though I know they're a huge part of Daredevil. It's unfortunate they brought back my least favorite part of DD for IF. I LOVED the Punisher stuff though as he's one of my favorite Marvel characters. Can't wait for his series!

 
DragoonKnight said:
Getting tired of the dismissal of critics by Cheapy. Stop taking Metacritic so seriously. Just read this excerpt from the Metacritic FAQ to see why:

Just look at all the low reviews for Iron Fist. Most of them don't have scores at all. That means Metacritic gets to decide the number assigned to the review UNLESS the critic themselves decide to dispute the number. And even after all that, we don't know how each publication's review is weighted against each other.

We've become so sensitive to the way things are "scored" that it's really had an impact on our consumption of media. If you really care so much about reviews, find a publication you respect and stick to them. Personally, I'm a fan of Alan Sepinwall's TV reviews on Uproxx (formerly Hitfix). I'd much rather trust his reviews than some arbitrary aggregation site.

Games are the same thing. If I don't like Polygon (for example), why would I put so much emphasis on the number on Metacritic when I don't even know how much their score is weighted in the overall score? It's illogical.
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I totally agree. I can understand if someone doesn't have a whole lot of time to watch a bunch of because the chances are high some of it might not be good. BUT, watch, play, read, whatever you think you'd like. Don't worry about scores. There are plenty of movies that have like 20s and 30s on rotten tomatoes that are on my all time list whereas if it gets 90+, I most likely wont like it.

 
Halfway through Iron Fist and I was expecting a crappy show after all I heard and read. Instead I got another Netflix Marvel production. I enjoy it as much as Daredevil, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. It has its problems but no more than the other series. Maybe that's the problem, critics are expecting something less formulaic? One thing I agree with that was previously mentioned on this podcast about Jessica Jones that I notice in all these series, and that is there is one or two episodes too many. Sometime less is more, and I think cutting the shows down to 10 episodes would make them better.

I'm sorry to see the end of Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions. I've become a fan and hopefully it's just on hiatus. If not, thanks for all the (uninformed) opinions, Wombat and Christian.

 
What's the deal with wombat and his podcast? He sounded dismissive and almost bitter, like he didn't want to talk about it.

 
I for one loved every moment of Iron Fist. I don't know if its because I went in with low expectations, but I binged on that show in like 2-3 days and was very pleasantly surprised, I actually liked it better than Luke Cage.

I think critics have a tendency to Bandwagon opinions - either you love something to death and its practically perfect (Zelda BOTW) or its an offence to everyone alive (Iron Fist). I'm glad Cheapy is grounded enough to admit he actually enjoys this show. To me its kind of a guilty pleasure, like Agents of Shield. I KNOW its not an amazing show and its full of cheesy implausible shit, but damnit, I enjoy it and I have no problem admitting that, critics be damned.

 
I haven't commented here for a while but the comments about "why not just apologize if you offended someone" compelled me to. What an absurd concept. Who is forcing you to read someones Twitter? Watch someones Youtube? Follow them in general? Who is forcing you to read their comments and get offended? 

Do you guys honestly think that a person being offended over something nobody forced them to read is going to be appeased by an apology? All it shows is that they can get what they want out of whining and crying over the Internet. This faux outrage and offense culture is tired out. 

As for Iron Fist, their budget must have been small even in comparison to their other Marvel Netflix shows. That iron fist came into play a handful of times across 13 episodes and barely in any compelling ways. Somewhat forgettable and somewhat stupid show but I'll probably watch Season 2 when it comes out.

 
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Scooby said:
What's the deal with wombat and his podcast? He sounded dismissive and almost bitter, like he didn't want to talk about it.
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Seems like it was a mutual thing according to twitter, I imagine they couldn't sync-up with the schedule which is why the show schedule never reached a regular cadence (eastcoast vs westcoast, wombat works the standard 8 to 5, spicer has his flex stand-up comic schedule etc...)

 
GOTA said:
I finished off Iron Fist in a week. Honestly I wasn't interested in watching anything else until I was done with this. It's very similar to all the other Netflix Marvel series. If you like one you'll like them all. If you don't like the others this won't be the one that changes your mind.

I also like Finn Jones as Iron Fist. I'm tired of all these actors bulked up to pro wrestler level. In the comics Danny Rand has always looked small while Luke Cage looks huge. When they are together in the Defenders it's going to look a lot like the books
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I only like Daredevil. NetFlix has much better TV shows to watch than Iron Fist if you're not really into everything Marvel makes.
 
The worst apology is the type that Cheapy suggested. "I am sorry if you were offended" is NOT an apology.  It passes the blame onto the person who was offended. A real apology is "I am sorry for saying X/Y/Z."

 
There are some circumstances in which "I'm sorry if you were offended" accurately defines the situation.

No, you shouldn't ever speak that sentence out-loud as it will never be a legitimate apology lol.

But there are some things you should not be expected to apologize for, whether the other party was "offended" or not.

What if we stop wearing our hearts on our sleeves and be true to ourselves while still remaining considerate and civil to our neighbors? A tall order to be sure, but it is still possible, right?

I was holding off, but I think I'll give Iron Fist a chance after all.

 
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Wombat's impressions of Mass Effect: Andromeda aligned a lot with mine.  Cheapy nailed it when he said it's missing all the people from the original trilogy, that played a big part in it.  It looks and feels like a Mass Effect game but it's just missing something, and that's the creativity and charm from the original people working on it.  The edginess is toned down way too much as well.  It's still a very good game but it's not as good as the first three in the series.

 
You get an apology, you get an apology, we all get apologies.

I have to disagree with Cheapy, whom comes off as very PC. We all have different ideals, beliefs, and viewpoints which in this day seems to offend someone regardless. The world has too much apologizing and adding empty apologies isn't helping anyone. To me it's very similar to giving participation trophies to kids. We don't want anyone's feelings to be hurt so let's give them all trophies.

 
$40 for The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+ is a legit price for that game, as the Steam bundle of the same contents is $36 with the base game and both expansions adds up to $36 together.

Sorry, Cheapy. My internet is good enough to stream PlayStation Now well, but if I wanted to download and play a 40-50 GB game, I'd have to let it download overnight and through most of the next day until I get home from work for it to probably be ready to go. The speed requirements for PS Now are not that high.

The Colin Moriarty thing had less to do with the joke than his nature of posting inflammatory things, getting more heat and blowback than he wants, playing the victim, and refusing to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing in any of that. That's been going on for months. He's attacked other colleagues and sent his fans to also attack them, demanded debates from critics over dumb internet BS, and called fans and critics "humorless sacks of shit" during the latest incident. Obviously, that's not a good situation for your fan-based business to be put in often by one person that refuses to grow up. It got so bad that his personal fans were attacking the other Kinda Funny guys for not fully backing Colin's BS. It's no surprise that Greg and the others stood up for themselves and the good of the business while Colin left to do his own thing since his priorities had changed drastically over the past few months. Now Colin has a new Patreon about politics that has over $40k+ per month pledges by his fans, so he's got everything he could want right now.

Also, that entire Pewdiepie argument that Cheapy was trying to make was one of the most confusing things I've heard in a while. Tai wasn't interested in watching him a few years ago, but Cheapy wanted to pre-screen it anyway and decided to block Tai watching him despite not being interested in the first place? That was a whole lot of nothing as a discussion.

 
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I agree that some of the criticisms of the decision to cast a white guy as Iron Fist are overblown, but I suspect if they'd made a better show, the disappointment in the casting choice would've been a footnote in otherwise positive reviews. I do think there is a reasonable complaint to raise against casting Iron Fist as a white guy: in a world where there few roles are written for non-white characters, do we need yet another white guy billionaire crime fighter character (see also Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Oliver Queen)? Especially one who is set up as the white savior for some made up Asian mysticism? I get it, Danny is a white guy in the comics and they're basing this series on those comics, so it seems natural for them to stick to that approach. But I also understand why people think it is disappointing that they didn't take this opportunity to cast an Asian actor in a role where that would feel natural (especially since they ended up telling such a boring story by sticking to the old format).

(Also, I cringed at Cheapy calling the blowback "reverse racist"--I know what you're trying to say, Cheapy, but really, just google around for people on the internet alleging things are reverse racist and see if you want to be a part of that crowd.)

 
Wait, Cheapy let Tai play the Switch for 2 hours on a car ride?  What happened to the books?  I'm not trying to rag on you, but you do make a point to mention how Tai is all about reading when Wombat has talked about having his kids play video games on road trips  :razz:

 
I wanted to watch Iron Fist but I just can't handle the gore. I don't see the point. 

The obsessive nature of apologizing and the absolute insanity of the fear of offending someone is unbelievably shocking.  

I'm only 30 but growing up, school years and even into college, not being offended at people saying mean things was...a part of life. I can't imagine what kind of stress people have who get offended...at jokes...on social media.

I listen to multiple gaming podcasts (and occasionally post on these forums) but I could never be an actual part of the gaming community. Of course, straight white conservative males aren't allowed to be a part of the gaming community so I guess I will just tweet about how offended I am /s.

Also, excellent episode! It's always great getting to listen to y'all after a long week of work. Thanks for the laughs and entertainment!

 
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My suggestion for the next week, let's just not talk about YouTube dipshits anymore. I just prefer to pretend they don't even exist.

I'm sorry to hear about the end of Uninformed Opinions, I enjoyed hearing two friends shoot the breeze (like the cagcast).
 
Cheapy D, please quit talking about back pain and John Sarno.  I have posted about this before and when you noted that certain activities caused back pain.  What would Sarno say is causing the alteration in back pain with activity?  Changes in mental stress?  What a bunch of crap!  That means that I am less stressed out mentally when standing erect than when bending forward.  The only reason you believe him is that your pain improved.  Medical guidelines indicate that a physician is supposed to recommend that people stay active and reassure them that their back pain will improve since statistically that is true.  So, him telling you it is in your head and it improving is no different than me saying look at the sky and your back will improve - it is very likely to improve without any treatment at all.  Go Wombat for calling BS on the BS.

 
Hey guys, 

I thought you down played the XBOX exclusive thing a little too much. You brought up Nier and Nioh vs. Halo and Gears but failed to mention games like Horizon and The Last Of Us in the same breath. Nier and Nioh are more niche but are more like icing on the cake. Halo isn't new anymore. Gears was great but just came out. Fable is gone. Crackdown (will it deliver?). 

I think XBOX needs some fresh IP. New powerful hardware is great but what's driving it to sell? Why not just buy a PC if you want power? You can play the XBOX stuff there anyway...

What does Scorpio have making it truly unique? If the PS4 Pro is an afterthought why won't Scorpio suffer the same fate?

More strong titles for PS4....God Of War, Spider-Man, Last Of Us 2, Days Gone....a lot of potential. 

Right after I heard the Cagcast...Remedy (Quantum Break, Alan Wake) is leaving for the multiplatform. 

Can't deny XBOX needs to show us something come e3, something that makes a splash. Right now the best "deal" to me seems to be a PS4 at $250 at least in this near future. 

 
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