Hot Topic: What Should Be Done About Guns?

bear489

bear489

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I'm sitting here watching Fox News and CNN as they broadcast the demonstration all I'm hearing is we need to do something, we don't know what but it will come. So lets play a game where it's up to you to fix the "gun problem". What you decide goes, no arguments, no buts. So what's the plan?

One thing I will ask is the next poster not to rebuttal the previous poster's plan. I just want to hear your plan only. I'll start.

My plan is we change our thinking of what guns are, what they do, and why we need them. I believe we need to introduce a safety firearm class to our kids starting in 1st grade all the way to 12th grade. We teach early that guns are not toys and to be respected. Tell them in each grade the 4 rules to handle a firearm. Starting in 5 grade we allow them to handle a firearm and if they show a interest let them learn how to shoot under adult supervision. This takes the irrational fear and the mystery of a firearm out of the equation.

Next we take the no gun signs down from buildings. Not once has those signs worked but to the ones who follow the law. Even then if someone is conceal carrying no one is the wiser unless the building has a metal detector or security doing pat downs.

We allow those teachers who are willing to carry can, concealed only and no one but the teacher and the principle would know. This will allow those who don't want to wouldn't feel pressured into carrying. Last thing you want is someone who's unwilling to carry to carry, that's unfair to them and could become dangerous. I know that alot of teachers want to carry and  there are sheriff officers that are willing to teach for free to any teacher who wants the training.

Last is not a law but a statement. Parents need to stop being friends with their kids and start being parents.Kids have enough friends as is; they only get 2 parents in life, some only 1. Start teaching that life has value and choices all have rewards and more importantly consequences in life. We need to pay attention to what our kids watch, listen, and play. We need to set the example what our kids can look up to and to push them to be better then what we are now. Most important is we teach them self respect and that respect is not earned but freely given.

 
Oh brother. We want to teach kids about guns starting in first grade, but not about sex. This is exactly what's wrong with this country. I also don't know any teachers who want to carry at work. Everything you've outlined is silly. Next.

 
soulvengeance said:
Oh brother. We want to teach kids about guns starting in first grade, but not about sex. This is exactly what's wrong with this country. I also don't know any teachers who want to carry at work. Everything you've outlined is silly. Next.
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So what's your plan. I mean you're off to a great start of following instructions. Here is a new link about teachers who are signing up already and the sheriff had to cut it off at 300.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2018/02/20/butler-county-sheriff-richard-k-jones-arming-teachers-my-grandkids/354298002/

As far as sex goes that should be up to the parents when and how to have the sex talk.

 
Look at this guy. I don't follow his rules, now he's going to have to shoot me. :D/

Your response to the sex ed tells me all I need to know about you. :rofl:

detectiveconan16 said:
Is America still stuck in the throes of the Wild West?
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Short and long answer: Yes. They pine for the time when men were men, and minorities could be whipped.

 
soulvengeance said:
Look at this guy. I don't follow his rules, now he's going to have to shoot me. :D/

Your response to the sex ed tells me all I need to know about you. :rofl:

Short and long answer: Yes. They pine for the time when men were men, and minorities could be whipped.
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So what's your plan?

 
soulvengeance said:
My plan is to exit this useless thread. You're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to push your views. Thanks for....well, nothing actually. I guess it was something to read while I was bored.
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Thank you for showing us that instead of coming together to see if there is any middle ground we can agree to, you want to come and make snide remarks. If I just wanted to "push my views" then I wouldn't have asked for another's plan and to hold off making remarks on another's plan. Your welcome that this was entertaining for you.

 
After Las Vegas we could not get bump stocks banned. There is no reason to engage until people start arguing in good faith.
 
There was a whole set of proposed rules as common sense gun laws that the majority of america was behind until for some reason everyone just forgot about them and they went nowhere, probably due to the cries of a tiny minority that should have been ignored

Just strengthen background checks, have a mandatory safety and use class, after which you get a certificate. With that you must now present it any time you wish to buy a firearm or ammunition. At least then even if some disturbed individual gets a gun from a relative they would also have to steal ammo for it. Sure its not perfect and doesn't solve everything, but its a step in the right direction and would help to prevent a lot of guns/ammo from falling in to hands that should not have it

You will never stop the 'bad person who wants to do bad things will get a gun', you just can't, but you may as well try to really impede their progress, thats much more useful than doing absolutely nothing. There is also the huge mental health issue in this country that must be addressed, but that is going to take many years to undo and due to the completely fucked nature of health care in this country is going to be incredibly hard. However things like the above can be done within a years time, instituting a solution for the entire lack of public mental health care could take a decade

 
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You lost your chance to be treated seriously after Sandy Hook and Las Vegas. The NRA is a paper tiger and as a gun owner myself I'm sick of them making us look like crazy people while taking Putin Pesos to make shit up about liberals.
 
I like this feature from fivethirtyeight on gun deaths:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

Also, this research was just released:

http://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/

I'm not sure how you end school shootings. I guess as a country we have to ask, how many school shootings is to many. As a numbers person myself, I know we work on averages and statistics. The saying of "one death is to many" is a lie. The government actually has numbers of how many people have to die before they increase spending on a widespread illness at the CDC. Highways are a great example also, if one death was to many, we would be driving 15 mph on all the interstates. It sounds silly, right? That would be like a gun ban, which would also be silly and is unpopular and would never pass.

I think the Florida incident increases awareness and of course as a parent of public school attending children myself, it is always my fear that someone shoots up my childs school. I always have a fear of sharks when I swim in the ocean and of getting hit by lightning when I'm walking outside in a lightning storm. All of those have very low statistical odds of happening to me so then I have to ask myself, do I support some type of widespread law to prevent it? I guess it depends on the cost.

Safety always seems to have two costs, a monetary cost and a freedom cost. After 9/11 we were so scared of terrorists that we gave up 99% of our online and phone privacy. The government has access to look at our phone records, our pictures, our videos, everything we post online. I was young when that happened but looking back I still ask myself if that was worth the cost. I'm still not sure.

I guess I would say I am conservative because I always lean towards freedom instead of safety in most situations. I guess it goes back to the nobility of dying a free man rather than living as a slave. It's the same reason I try to stay out of debt and wish I still had people in the senate and house that wanted to stay out of debt too.

 
Why are bump stocks still legal?
You guys post these digital filibusters and throw in a jab about freedom and then think you are done. It isn't enough
 
Msut77 said:
Why are bump stocks still legal?
You guys post these digital filibusters and throw in a jab about freedom and then think you are done. It isn't enough
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Why should they be illegal?

Did you know you can make a bump stock effect with just with your belt loop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=jSdkTjuQrks

and here is one using a bump stock. I marked where he talks about the bump stock but it's worth watching the whole video.

https://youtu.be/K2IOZ-5Nk5k?t=2m35s

 
They should be illegal because there is no legitimate reason to have a fully auto weapon. How many Las Vegas Massacres are worth Billy Bob get a bullet storm boner?
 
Msut77 said:
They should be illegal because there is no legitimate reason to have a fully auto weapon. How many Las Vegas Massacres are worth Billy Bob get a bullet storm boner?
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Ok, tell me in all the mass shootings have a fully automatic weapon been used? Msut77 have you tried to purchase a firearm before or have the knowledge of what goes into buying one?

 
Msut77 said:
I'm a gun owner schlappschwanz
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Sorry to hear that you're a schlappschwanz.

Also I didn't mean to ignore your questions on how many mass shootings are worth to own a bump stock. I'll answer with it's a tool they're not good nor evil but the person who uses that tool. There will always be a inherent risk with freedoms. Using the 1st amendment freely will always offend someone when it doesn't vibe with their view, but it's their right to say it without fear of a government stepping in and saying stop saying that or you'll go to jail. Just like the 2nd amendment enforces the idea of self preservation in the use of firearms. It's no one's job to keep you safe but yours alone. The supreme court has ruled in this way.

http://tribunist.com/news/supreme-court-ruling-police-have-no-duty-to-protect-the-general-public/

Again how many fully automatic weapons have been used in mass shootings?

 
The 2nd amendment has 2 parts. Also you already answered. Any amount of massacres are ok with you because morons think its fun to waste ammo
 
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Msut77 said:
The 2nd amendment has 2 parts. Also you already answered. Any amount of massacres are ok with you because morons think its fun to waste ammo
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Could you explain what the 2nd amendment means to you since you keep being vague. You say, "Delete half the 2nd amendment." and now saying it has 2 parts. No massacre is ok with me, it is a tragic event that should never happen. I've outlined my idea on stopping or better yet prevent a mass shooting in the beginning of this thread. What would your plan be?

 
I'm okay with bump stocks being illegal, that's fine, but they can be made on a 3D printer so it doesn't mean people won't have them. I'm not even sure where you could buy one in the first place, I have never been in the market for one. Ban those but I don't think that's going to stop the next mass shooting.

You mocked me bringing up freedom but any wide sweeping federal ban on anything is an attack on freedom. That's just a fact. You don't want absolute freedom though, some things have to be banned or you end up like mad max. It's just the argument of where do we draw the line.

The school district I'm in is always looking at ways of making things safer. Last I heard the teachers were getting those locks for the doors to make it really hard to get into classrooms. That's one improvement but it won't be enough.
 
Msut77 said:
Gotcha why bother to have laws if someone can circumvent them.
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That's not what I said at all. I said I'm fine with them being banned, but it seems like if you still wanted one you could get it.

You talk about wanting real solutions, I mean if I were to look at real solutions, what if all of the shooters had a father figure in the home? What if they had real friends who lifted them up so they weren't isolated? What if they didn't have access to a gun?

I guess my point is, I think the real solution is way more complex and involved than we can imagine and no one thing is going to fix it, so let's start with one thing at a time. My worry is, we get a bump stock ban and an "assault style" rifle ban and then we say, okay we solved it.

Have we really? What about all the kids that commit suicide because there parents ignore them or get bullied but decided not to go on a school shooting. It just is a very big problem and something I worry about with my own kids. It's why I try to make sure I talk to them everyday so they have a father in there life, but what about kids that don't? What can we do for them?
 
Msut77 said:
Ok gotcha banning stuff is hard but mandatory every one gets a good father figure is a ok
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Just for my own curiousity, you said you would get rid of half the 2nd amendment.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Which part?
 
Msut77 said:
Weird how you intentionally not understanding something isnt an argument
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I mean, you could just say what you think instead of being weird about it? Not sure why the need for the high horse, I was genuinely curious about your opinion.

So I'm assuming by that response your saying we should have the right to the militia but no guns? So what good is an unarmed militia if your government gets to the point where they are rolling tanks down city roads and putting civilians in prison with no charges?
 
Donken said:
I mean, you could just say what you think instead of being weird about it? Not sure why the need for the high horse, I was genuinely curious about your opinion.

So I'm assuming by that response your saying we should have the right to the militia but no guns? So what good is an unarmed militia if your government gets to the point where they are rolling tanks down city roads and putting civilians in prison with no charges?
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You don't have actual arguments or solutions. You make a bunch of fart noises and try to distract and wait it out until the next massacre. It may not work this time.
 
Msut77 said:
You don't have actual arguments or solutions. You make a bunch of fart noises and try to distract and wait it out until the next massacre. It may not work this time.
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We actually do, it's just solutions you don't like. Unlike you, who has been vague and unproductive to this thread.

 
bear489 said:
We actually do, it's just solutions you don't like. Unlike you, who has been vague and unproductive to this thread.
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He's just trolling you at this point, he has no real solutions and has made it clear he doesn't want to participate in any dialog.
 
Donken said:
He's just trolling you at this point, he has no real solutions and has made it clear he doesn't want to participate in any dialog.
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Oh, I know, which is sad cause it does good to have a open discussion on issues like this. Also, he gave me a new tag line to use.

 
Donken said:
He's just trolling you at this point, he has no real solutions and has made it clear he doesn't want to participate in any dialog.
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What dialogue do you think is achievable with someone who thinks rapid fire weapons with hi cap mags should be widely available? There is not going to be a middle ground. Arming teachers etc is stupid and just a distraction.
 
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Msut77 said:
What dialogue do you think is achievable with someone who thinks rapid fire weapons with no cap mags should be widely available? There is not going to be a middle ground. Arming teachers etc is stupid and just a distraction.
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I'm happy to go down that road, and I'm genuinely interested, I listen to conservative and liberal podcasts because I like to hear it all. Cheapassgamers is just a bunch of gamers talking about whatever, I have no reason to be hostile to you, I assume we both like video games.

So we ban rapid fire weapons, we ban high capacity magazines, we don't arm teachers, we remove the right to bear arms from #2A.

I'm assuming that means now guns would be illegal for all citizens to own? Is that everything or would you want more? Feel free to correct me if I said something you weren't intending.
 
At the very least ban high cap mags , bump stocks and close all the loopholes. Stronger checks and a national database.
 
Msut77 said:
At the very least ban high cap mags , bump stocks and close all the loopholes. Stronger checks and a national database.
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What do you consider high capacity? I'm fine with the bump stock ban, I think most people are okay with that. Everything you said right here I'm okay with. I don't see any of that being controversial.

Are you okay with gun ranges having high capacity and rapid fire rentals? They would have special permits so if people wanted to fire them. Kind of like how they have full autos today

I think 18 year olds should be allowed to buy if they pass background checks and database. Since they can serve in the military. I don't agree with Dicks and Walmart on the 21 age, unless we change military enrollment age to 21.

Note: I think 18 year olds should be allowed to drink legally too if they want.
 
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Msut77 said:
Anything over 10.
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Would that be for detachable mags or station mags or both?

Would this be your speed?

Establish a "firearms and ammunition database";

Outlaw any operable automatic firearm;

Outlaw any semiautomatic firearm capable of accepting a magazine holding ten or more rounds;

Outlaw any semiautomatic firearm with a fixed magazine accepting ten or more rounds.

Senate Bill 260 in Ohio

 
The problem, as was pointed out by another CAG in the Xbox Deals Political Thread, is both sides of the argument get tunnel vision and are equally stupid in pushing their "solution". The notion of banning guns is just as unrealistic as the suggestion of "if only everybody had a father figure". Well, sure...and if we had unicorns and guns shot marshmallows, everything would be better too.

If we're not talking about tangible obtainable solutions, it is just a bunch of fluffy fart noises that waste time until everybody gets fatigue and gives up...which is what happens over and over again.

Bump stocks: the reason many on the right (including Trump) are willing to ban bump stocks is because like Donken said, it mostly accomplishes nothing. It's a gesture, sure. But if you can 3D print one or achieve the same result through other means, is it even a sacrifice? It's a bargaining chip that means nothing to you. Of course you'd give that up to shut people up.

Second, these "stands" being taken by Dick's, Walmart, etc. are questionable. They're basically going around the law to implement their own personal policies. And I guess it's their prerogative to do that. But how long is this going to last? And like it's been mentioned...when the counter-argument is "So, I can die for my country by a weapon that I'm not able to buy in my personal life?" it gets messy. Do you raise the enlistment age to 21? I don't know...I'd probably be for it just based on the logic that 18 year olds are morons whose brains aren't even fully developed. But then again, that's probably part of the military indoctrination MO. It's about following orders, not questioning what you're being asked to do.

So, what tangible actions are there that will make a difference? Well, for schools specifically, I think we can do a better job securing the buildings. For all the people who talk about "we need to do something", they need to put their money where their mouth is and take the necessary measures to actually improve things. Rather than arming stressed out teachers who have more responsibilities than preparing for potential firefights and could snap at any moment (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-in-custody-after-reports-shots-fired-at-high-school.html), spend the money and put two armed resource officers in every school. Install metal detectors in all schools and have all people entering pass through a security checkpoint manned by your two SROs. Install better locks on classroom doors and have a more consistent reliable way to barricade those doors if the need arises.

But of course, this means raising taxes. And considering that the people who vote on those issues mostly likely don't ever step foot in a public school, good luck getting them to honestly care about any of this. So, even with tangible and obtainable solutions, you still need the right people to actually give a damn.

 
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