How Rockstar Screwed Us and Why Jack Thompson is Right - A CAG Editorial

CheapyD

CheapyD

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With tag-teaming NY Senators leading the way, politicians all over the country are jumping on the “video games are ruining society” bandwagon. Given this current frenzy, you would have thought Rockstar would have handled the Grand Theft Auto Hot Coffee controversy with the utmost care. Instead, Rockstar sold out their colleagues and their customers, leaving the entire gaming industry and the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) looking like a bunch of high school slackers who got caught smoking in the bathroom.

When Hot Coffee first made headlines, the industry was still feeling heat from Senator Schumer (D-NY) about the upcoming [size=-1]Eidos [/size]title, 25 to Life. Perhaps this was why Rockstar, GTA's publisher, felt it was necessary to feed the media a statement in which they claimed to be the innocent victims of elite hackers:

"So far we have learned that the 'Hot Coffee' modification is the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game. In violation of the software user agreement, hackers created the 'Hot Coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code."
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Today we know that this statement is at best highly misleading and at worst a flat-out lie. The Hot Coffee sex mini-games are not really a modification at all since all the content necessary is already present on the PC, Xbox, and PS2 game discs. The mini-games just need to be “unlocked”, either with a downloadable PC file or a readily available video game cheat device. Most likely, these sex mini-games were planned to be part of the finished product, were never completed, and were left on the disc as is. But perhaps the mini-games were hidden on purpose, knowing that the modding community would eventually stumble upon them. This could help push sales of the game while avoiding the ESRB’s dreaded “Adults Only” rating, which, at the very least, would prohibit the game from being sold at Wal-Mart, the industry’s biggest mover of product.

While we don’t know for sure (and likely never will) why the Hot Coffee content made it into the retail version, we do know that Rockstar did a terrible job of trying to spin the situation to deflect blame. In reality, their actions helped strengthen the ongoing argument that the gaming industry is not properly regulating themselves. Here is a little tip for next time, Rockstar: if you are going to try to spin like the big boys, why not go with something believable? You could have claimed that there had been a production error and the content was never supposed to be in the retail version. Trying to convince a technologically savvy industry that it's possible to significantly modify content on a console DVD is ridiculous and insulting. Clearly, this type of conduct complicates an already difficult situation and is the last thing the industry needs given the current political climate.

Also providing ammunition for the politicians is Jack Thompson, a Florida-based attorney who is the ambulance chaser of the video game industry. His website, StopKill.com, reveals immediately that its purpose is to seek out those who “know of someone harmed as a result of violent entertainment, including violent video games.” He sounds a lot like those 1-800-LAWYER commercials.

But for all of Mr. Thompson’s distortion of facts, he does make an interesting point:

“I am trying to protect our freedoms. How so? When the next Columbine happens and the perpetrators are proven to be copycatters of adult-rated violent entertainment, then the government, driven by parental concern, really will contract freedom for all Americans. Safety will trump freedom.

When that happens, the entertainment industry will be to blame for our loss of freedom because of its failure now to accept even reasonable marketing standards.”
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While I don't believe Mr. Thompson is really interested in our freedoms, there is an important truth buried in that statement. Whenever a violent act can be linked to video games, no matter how weak the connection, lawyers like Mr. Thompson and politicians will get their faces in front of the TV cameras. Lawyers know that the gaming industry has deep pockets and politicians know crusades like this make for great sound bites.

At this point, the gaming and entertainment industries have giant bull’s-eyes painted on them and need to be on their best behavior. Knowing that the attacks are not going away, the publishers and the ESRB need to step up and show our government that they will aggressively address the issue of children playing video games intended for adults.

The ESRB would be wise to learn from the mistakes of the tobacco companies. Compare the websites www.philipmorrisusa.com and www.esrb.com. Notice how Phillip Morris’ page is filled to the brim with (mostly anti-smoking) content and the ESRB’s page seems anemic? Tobacco’s opponents can no longer claim that cigarette manufacturers are not giving their customers the full story. Undoubtedly the tobacco industry had little choice after losing several huge lawsuits. At this point, it should be clear that the video game industry is following closely in big tobacco’s footsteps and should learn from its mistakes. It would be unfortunate if it took a multi-million dollar judgment to get the gaming industry to take more aggressive stances on enforcing its own ratings and in defusing opponents. Here is a glimpse of a possibly grim gaming future if the industry doesn't get its act together.
 
Agreed, the Hot Coffee situation is shaping up to be the videogame equivalent of Janet Jackson's right nipple. Television hasn't been the same since, and I don't know if videogames will be either.
 
The comparison between the gaming industry and the smoking industry is apt in more ways than one; the gaming industry has yet to lose a few billion in lawsuits, and so they haven't taken the issue seriously. Like any large company, press statements from the public relations departments of video game publishers are going to talk about constitutional rights, freedom of expression, censorship, and concerns for the gaming community....while the actions of the company will continue to be guided by simple profit concerns.

The cigarette companies gave the public what it wanted with only the bottom line in their eye$, and the gaming industry will most likely act with similar short-sightedness.
 
I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't pointlessly argue how it the parents' fault!

Thank you Cheapy for a logical response to this. I am so tired of reading the opinions of 15 year olds who just keep retyping "parents, parents, parents" without having a clue of what the real issue is here. Congress has said many times that if the industry doesn't regulate itself, they will. The game should have been AO from the beginning, regardless of "hot coffee" in my opinion. If R* wasn't happy with not being able to advertise on MTV so all the 14 year olds could see it, they should have changed the game.

People, ultimately, can blame whoever they want as it really doesn't matter who is at fault. The fact is kids are playing the game that shouldn't be and Congress wants to get the points for "fixing" it. Until the industry stops blaming parents (who yes, are at fault but so what?) and actually gets something done, Congress is going to keep rattling the cage.
 
At this point I agree Rockstar is hurting perception of the game industry. The unfortunate thing is they don't have to. The GTA series is great in its own right, without the blatantly over-the-top violence in some missions and the "hot coffee" mod. Then again, I have a hard time stomaching politicians such as Hillary Clinton using the GTA controversy to further her career. Plus, isn't it somewhat hypocritical to point the finger at GTA after you threw your support behind a war that has killed tens of thousands of people?
Anyhow, very good editorial with some valid points, though its impact may be greater if there wasn't a story right below it touting a device that lets you access the hidden "hot coffee" features on the PS2.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Even a delusion paranoid schizophrenic is right every once in a while, even if they are a total looney the rest of the time.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I'm lost...are you talking about yourself, or J Thompson? IKIK!

Seriously though, if it were up to me GTA, God of War, and any other game should get an AO rating from the get-go, and retailers should be held responsible for restricting underage sales just like theaters are with regard to R movies.

I know fucking Wal-Mart wouldn't stock the games, but that's just a punch to the gut that an AO game publisher would just have to take.

I don't want to be told that I can't play an ultraviolent game - I am almost 30 for god's sake - but I really would rather that 15 yr olds don't play games that further blur the line between reality and fantasy while at an age where such distinctions are harder to make.

In an ideal world, parents would keep this shit out of thier kid's hands, but the reality is that it is not likely.
 
[quote name='kev']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't pointlessly argue how it the parents' fault!

Thank you Cheapy for a logical response to this. I am so tired of reading the opinions of 15 year olds who just keep retyping "parents, parents, parents" without having a clue of what the real issue is here. Congress has said many times that if the industry doesn't regulate itself, they will. The game should have been AO from the beginning, regardless of "hot coffee" in my opinion. If R* wasn't happy with not being able to advertise on MTV so all the 14 year olds could see it, they should have changed the game.

People, ultimately, can blame whoever they want as it really doesn't matter who is at fault. The fact is kids are playing the game that shouldn't be and Congress wants to get the points for "fixing" it. Until the industry stops blaming parents (who yes, are at fault but so what?) and actually gets something done, Congress is going to keep rattling the cage.[/QUOTE]
Well really, it shouldn't have been AO (and still shouldn't be). In fact, there shouldn't be an AO rating to begin with! Or at least, not with some major changes...

There's little-to-nothing that seperates an M rated game's content with an AO rated game's content, yet the AO rating carries a much higher stigma than the M. When you boil it down, the M and AO ratings need to either be changed or combined, and the stigma removed. If retailers weren't afraid to stock AO games, then I'm sure Rockstar wouldn't have lied about Hot Coffee.

Although I'm not absolving Rockstar, don't get me wrong...
 
[quote name='supergrass']Anyhow, very good editorial with some valid points, though its impact may be greater if there wasn't a story right below it touting a device that lets you access the hidden "hot coffee" features on the PS2.[/QUOTE] Ha ha, yeah, I realized that, but of course I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Hot Coffee or sex and violence in video games. The industry can and should continue to produce adult games, it just needs to be smarter about how it and be better prepared to handle the opposition.

Also, I really wanted to use that picture I took at E3. ;)
 
While the ESRB needs to get on top of this so do the parents. I can remember not being able to buy a cassette tape if it had the parental advisory on it. Maybe the ESRB should put a logo like that on the games rather than M for Mature. It's almost as if all of America is too busy to reprimand or pay attention to their children.
 
I have an Action Replay and GTA:SA for PS2, but I really dont care about the sex game. I just wanted to play the actual game itself. This ruins anyone who just wanted to play the game.
 
[quote name='organicow']I really would rather that 15 yr olds don't play games that further blur the line between reality and fantasy while at an age where such distinctions are harder to make.[/QUOTE]

15-year-olds are just a couple of years away from being legally about to join the armed forces and kill real living people. Any normal 15 year old "kid" should be capable of telling the difference between fantasy and the real world.
 
[quote name='organicow']I really would rather that 15 yr olds don't play games that further blur the line between reality and fantasy while at an age where such distinctions are harder to make.[/QUOTE]

15-year-olds are just a couple of years away from being legally able to join the armed forces and kill real living people. Any normal 15 year old "kid" should be capable of telling the difference between fantasy and the real world.
 
Yes, Rockstar handled this situation with little competence and there is no excuse for their poor handling of this scandal, but to say that they scewed us is ridiculous.

The ESRB is the one who scewed us by taking the easy way out and giving in to political grandstanding. There is no way in hell that a developer should be penalized for something a third party does to their game. Without tampering "hot coffee" is unplayable so Rockstar is not responsible for the mod communities actions. You should be reminded that leaving content on a disk that is unused and unplayable is standard practice in the gaming industry and has been for a long time. Weapons, skins and models, among other things, are constantly found in games that don't get used until the mod community get a hold of it.

To make matters worse the ESRB is now demanding that all content on a disk be shown to them whether it is used or not, playable or not. How ridiculous is that? The ESRB should have had the balls to stand up and say the content on the GTA disk is not playable if not hacked by a third party device and thus does not deserve a stricter rating. The game disk, as is, IS compliant with the M-rating of the ESRB. Regardless, nudity and sex is already covered by the M rating. So either way the "AO" rating was uncalled for.

And R* statement is not a lie. The coffee scenes were altered from the house shaking to a sex game and "significant trouble" can mean anything.

To blame them for this fiasco is ridiculous. When you have solid proof that R* left the minigame in on purpose so that it could be unlocked by cheat devices then you can blame them for this fiasco.

And as far as the ESRB and gaming industry not doing enough to keep adult games out of kids hands - you are absolutely right.
 
Dear lord, that Legislative Agenda is truly a scary thing. --A crime to display 'violent' video games in public!? Wow Arkansas!


Good stuff in this post. Thanks!
 
this is great...this just what we need. senators putting their time in to such a pointless situation as gaming porn when there are other terrible situations that are occuring as we speak..wow senators really know how to utilize their time.
 
All good points on both sides really. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I really don't think games like GTA or Killer7 or God of War deserve an Ao rating though. It seems like more effort should go to educating the public about what the ratings on games mean. M means no one under 17 should play the game. This seems very similar to the MPAA's rating of NC-17 which is reserved for pretty much the movies with the most violence, or more notably nudity. A movie like Show Girls has much worse content for children than the Hot Coffee game in GTA yet they carry essentially the same ratings.

All in all I think the ratings themselves are fine, but until parents actually know what they mean we are going to keep having stories like this.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']
Also, I really wanted to use that picture I took at E3. ;)[/QUOTE]

I felt the same way! I wasn't allowed in Rockstar's gated community.

I felt Rockstar should have fought; Someone need to put the idea in the public conciousness that video games aren;t just for kiddies. 30 year old men play them, too! As long as toy staores still carry the games, that notion is going to exist.

Rockstar shouyld have said, "Yeah, there's sex in the game." So fucking what? Isn't that how we all got here?
 
Where was the source of that Legislative pdf file? It's sad to see they don't proofread documents if its a government source....i saw plenty of spelling errors =]
 
[quote name='jkam']While the ESRB needs to get on top of this so do the parents. I can remember not being able to buy a cassette tape if it had the parental advisory on it. Maybe the ESRB should put a logo like that on the games rather than M for Mature. It's almost as if all of America is too busy to reprimand or pay attention to their children.[/QUOTE]
That is the point of the M rating. From my experience, most retailers will refuse to sell the game unless you can prove you're over 17. I know that I've been carded every time I've tried to buy an M-rated game, at the very least.
 
Great editorial cheapy! They keep getting better, hope to see more in the future.

I think Rockstar might have a different idea going on though-- it does seem like they are playing dumb and selling us out, but I'd put money on it that they are really just trying to stretch what kind of content is allowed in games.

The AO rating just kind of sits there with a big taboo hanging over its head. What's the huge difference between 17+ and 18+? apparently it's nudity. Well, GTA has done everything else under the sun and nudity and sex are like the last frontiers for them.

what I'm getting at is that Hot Coffee is in there to ease the blow for when the next GTA comes along-- which will probably have everything and the kitchen sink in it. if there's one game that is going to shatter that AO taboo, it's GTA.

Not that that is going to help make it a better game or anything ;-)
 
[quote name='Gothic_Walrus']That is the point of the M rating. From my experience, most retailers will refuse to sell the game unless you can prove you're over 17. I know that I've been carded every time I've tried to buy an M-rated game, at the very least.[/QUOTE]

I've only ever been carded once at EB games, and I have been buying M rated games since I was 17. The problem is that there is no enforceable penalty for selling an M-rated game to an underage kid. This means that it's all controlled by self-enforcement at the retailer level, which means if the retailer doesn't care, then there is no penalty.
 
I hate to say it, but Thompson is right. But only in this case.

Does anyone remember the Tiger Wood's Golf game a few years back that "accidentially" had porn on it. It was a PS2 game I believe, but when put into a PC HD and explored, had porn on it. It's absolutely the game maker's fault. Don't put something that hasn't been reviewed by the ERSB in a game. End of story. It'd be the same if a movie in Hollywood was viewed, rated R, then the producer (or director or editor) decided to put in a brutal rape scene in the middle of it. You didn't inform the raters of the content, thus it was incorrectly rated. In GTA's case, the arguement could be made it's accessible via a patch. True, but that's the same reason why DVDs are not rated (NR). You can't get in trouble if something wasn' t rated on the disk to begin with. Stick the same brutual rape scene as an "easter egg" on a DVD, there's no issue, why? They never claimed to a rater that it was on there... thus the warning that the features are not rated. GTA does not have this advisory.

That being said, it opens a slew of issues. First off, you have to download a patch to get into it. My question is, if these parential groups are so gung ho about this, why aren't they watching what their children download off the internet?!? If kids can download Hot Coffee without parents noticing, I'd love to see their porn stash. The sad fact of the matter is that Rockstar can only be blamed to a degree on this one. I'm not 100% convinced (granted I haven't seen it) that the game deserves an AO with this minigame. What parent let their kid play a M game to begin with? That's the greater question here.

I played M games when I was in High School, but my parents knew I knew the difference between right and wrong, real and fake. In fact, my parents often played the games with me, at least untile I continually whooped them. My parents knew what was going on in my games, that's where I stand on that. Maybe I just had good parents.

Violence in video games is an interesting topic, I'm not going to go on a rant about it, but it is in my field of experitese (Media Studies). I don't do a lot of research into that, but I may start. Recent studies have shown that violence is being reduced due to the fact aggression is being taken out on games, not real people. I wish I had a link to the study, but chances are it's in an academic journal, so you probably wouldn't be able to get a hold of it (unless you work at or attend a university).

Finally, my problem here is this: Thompson wants to go after the Sims 2 next. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html)

This is clearly the defining commentary on what's occured here. Thompson took a shot in the dark into a crowd and hit the one game maker that WAS AT FAULT. EA is absolutly not at fault. Why? It's not their content. Just as Rockstar is at fault because they kept the material on the disk, EA is conversely not at fault because this content was created by someone outside of EA, and is distributing it without EA's consent.

Thomspon got damn lucky, because he's right this time. But he won't be the next. He's going to go on and on going after one game maker after the next. But he'll lose every other one but this, I guarantee it.

As for me, I just want to be able to get GTA:SA for my birthday. But it looks like that won't be happening.
 
I disagree. He is taking it out of proportion. Yes the code was in there, but is what was in there worth moving to AO? No! The default model was completely clothed. A humping animation with clothes on does not warrant an AO rating. There are tons of games out there with full nudity that are rated M.

To have them be naked you must use a patch. You can make the people in Sims 2 naked with a patch. Should that be AO? Should half life 2 be AO because there are patches to make Alex naked? Nope.

Rockstar did not deserve to be owned as much as they did.

Im too lazy to get it now but the creater of the hot coffe mod wrote a big letter to Jack Thompson, clinton, and others saying basically what I just did. What he hacked was not nude, he gives examples with links to other games that are worse than this (nude), and more.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']To blame them for this fiasco is ridiculous. When you have solid proof that R* left the minigame in on purpose so that it could be unlocked by cheat devices then you can blame them for this fiasco.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing. There's never going to be proof unless Rockstar admits to it, and why on earth would they do it at this point?

I don't know if Rockstar left the game in intentionally or not; going from all of the extra, unused content that's left in some titles, they could very well have assumed that no one would ever find the game.
 
[quote name='Gothic_Walrus']That is the point of the M rating. From my experience, most retailers will refuse to sell the game unless you can prove you're over 17. I know that I've been carded every time I've tried to buy an M-rated game, at the very least.[/QUOTE]

Which is why so many people use the "parental involvement" card. Of course there is an amount of responsibility held by the industry, but after working in a gamestore for a while you can tell where the real problem lies. I must've sold GTA to about 50 eight-year olds after their parents had to be dragged in out of the car when I refused to sell it to them.

"I don't care what's in it, it'll keep him busy!"
"It's just a videogame, why do you have to be that old?"

Parental involvement isn't a panacea, but I can guarantee it'd solve about 70% of the "Lil' Kids Gettin' Big People Games" problem.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']K-A = G
E = PG
E10+ = no MPAA equivalent
T = PG-13
M = R
AO = NC-17[/QUOTE]

I don't think this is true. If you are under 17 you can't get into an NC-17 movie and if you are under 17 you can't purchase an M rated game. In another light, the MPAA feels the content in an NC-17 movie is not suitable for somoene under the age of 17 and the ESRB feels the same way about it's M rated games.
 
[quote name='lordwow']
Does anyone remember the Tiger Wood's Golf game a few years back that "accidentially" had porn on it. It was a PS2 game I believe, but when put into a PC HD and explored, had porn on it.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was a Tiger Woods PS1 game, and it had the South Park "Spirit of Christmas" short on it.

In this matter, I really don't know what to think. I think things must be slow right now in the news, and that people are trying to create whatever crap they can. It's not unusual for game makers to leave unused/unfinished content on a disc that can only be accessed by hacking. After all, isn't that what cheat codes are?

Anyway, I'm just tired about hearing about this issue (please don't take that negatively; I'm tired of the talking heads on television who don't know crap about games, not of the people here sharing their opinions).

Point is, games aren't all for children. GTA: SA is an M-rated game. You have to be over 17 to buy it and play it. At that age, you are an adult (or rather, close to being one) and are allowed to see sexual content and violence in a movie theatre. All of a sudden a 17-year old (or older) can't handle sex and violence in a game?

Who the hell buys M-rated games for little kids, anyway? Granted, they are bound to be exposed to filth in the real world, but don't speed up the corruption process.
 
I only care to an extent, because ive go my copy of the game...but maybe i should have kept the box...this might be a possible collectors item twenty years down the line
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']I don't think this is true. If you are under 17 you can't get into an NC-17 movie and if you are under 17 you can't purchase an M rated game. In another light, the MPAA feels the content in an NC-17 movie is not suitable for somoene under the age of 17 and the ESRB feels the same way about it's M rated games.[/QUOTE]

If you are under 17 you can not get into a rated R movie without an adult, if you are under 17 you cannot get into an NC-17 movie with or without an adult. Rated R movies are present at nearly all theaters, NC-17 movies are not. I would imagine the same would be true for the differences between the M and AO rated games.
 
[quote name='zzl365']If you are under 17 you can not get into a rated R movie without an adult, if you are under 17 you cannot get into an NC-17 movie with or without an adult. Rated R movies are present at nearly all theaters, NC-17 movies are not. I would imagine the same would be true for the differences between the M and AO rated games.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I see what you're saying. It's vague in any case. I think the comparisson would have to be drawn between purchasing an R rated movie vs an NC-17 rated movie. I'm not sure if there is one, but that seems to be a better analogy.
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']
Point is, games aren't all for children. GTA: SA is an M-rated game. You have to be over 17 to buy it and play it. At that age, you are an adult (or rather, close to being one) and are allowed to see sexual content and violence in a movie theatre. All of a sudden a 17-year old (or older) can't handle sex and violence in a game?

Who the hell buys M-rated games for little kids, anyway? Granted, they are bound to be exposed to filth in the real world, but don't speed up the corruption process.[/QUOTE]

Amen.
 
Another point would be if you as an adult went with someone under 17 to an R-rated movie then theoretically you could make them leave with you if things were getting to the point that you didn't want them to continue watching. When someone over 17 buys an M- rated game for someone under 17 that doesn't mean they will have any supervision at all by the older person once the game is bought.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']

You should be reminded that leaving content on a disk that is unused and unplayable is standard practice in the gaming industry and has been for a long time.

[/QUOTE]

This is NOT "standard practice" it is just plain careless. That content could have been removed without much work before the final ROM is made. Minor things like extra skins are not big deal, but this is whole minigame!


[quote name='Scrubking']

When you have solid proof that R* left the minigame in on purpose so that it could be unlocked by cheat devices then you can blame them for this fiasco.
.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, but there is no proof they did NOT intend that ether. Because they lied about the content to at the start, there might be some doubt with their credibility.
 
I agree that R* has tried to squirm out of this scenario, and ended up creating more enemies (and looking foolish) as a result. However, to compare it to smoking is absurd.

Smoking kills. GTA causes criminal behavior. Which of these two statements is scientifically proven? I wish that we wouldn't allow the government to take the logical conclusion that games such as GTA lead to criminal behavior, and regulate it as they do tobacco products. It's simply foolish to stand by if this were to happen, without pointing out that no correlation has been proven (not that that's ever stopped politicians before).

Is R* at fault? Yes, for whatever their motives for leaving the minigame in. Should we accept government intervention without scientific proof that GTA and similar games help cause criminal or deviant behavior? Absolutely not. Until the latter is proven, the comparison with the smoking lobby is a poor one.

It seems that many times I've suggested regulating the sales of "adult" games in stores (fining the retailer for underage sales); many seem to think that's a bad idea and harmful to business. As of yet, I've not heard any better suggestions for "keeping out children safe from these awful games," while allowing them to still exist and be sold to consumers.
 
[quote name='kev']I find this opinion to be nonsense because it doesn't pointlessly argue how it the parents' fault!

Thank you Cheapy for a logical response to this. I am so tired of reading the opinions of 15 year olds who just keep retyping "parents, parents, parents" without having a clue of what the real issue is here. Congress has said many times that if the industry doesn't regulate itself, they will. The game should have been AO from the beginning, regardless of "hot coffee" in my opinion. If R* wasn't happy with not being able to advertise on MTV so all the 14 year olds could see it, they should have changed the game.

People, ultimately, can blame whoever they want as it really doesn't matter who is at fault. The fact is kids are playing the game that shouldn't be and Congress wants to get the points for "fixing" it. Until the industry stops blaming parents (who yes, are at fault but so what?) and actually gets something done, Congress is going to keep rattling the cage.[/QUOTE]

First off, yes, Rockstar screwed up right off the bat. The problem with telling a lie, is you have keep telling an even bigger one.
That said, no, it's not just "the opinions of 15 year olds who just keep retyping "parents, parents, parents" ". So what congress is saying basicly is, if the industry doesn't regulate your children for you, then it will? I agree, this is a huge blow for the future of video games, but stop and think why this is. Nobody wants to take the blame. Not Rockstar, not the parents, not the dumbass who sold an M rated game to a minor. The problem does indeed stem from the parents. They want someone else to regulate, to tell them, what their kid can play.
This is why the rating system exists in the first place people.

So yeah, of course congress is going to step in and be the shiney knight on the white horse....for....yep, you guess it OMG teh parentz.
I can't tell you how many parents I've either talked to, or heard of who won't go into their kids room because it's "their space". That's bullshit, until they pay the house note, it's my space.

So, instead of congress starting a campaign for getting more interested in your children, they go on this crusade.
I see it every time I go ANYWHERE. Momma is not paying any attention to the little bastard running up and down the isle at the steak house....
Leaving their kid in the toy isle for Wal-Mart to babysit, I've literally seen parents do this, and the kid couldn't have been over 7, if that. You are right, this isn't the parent's fault. They obviously take care of their kid and are responsible. My hobby should be in jeopardy because of this.

Should it possibly have been AO anyway? Maybe, maybe not. It's rated Mature, which I thought meant 17+. The logic in this, that is the biggest problem for me, can be summed up in a quote, from Bruce Cambell. "You can shoot a boobie, but you can't kiss it." WHY WHY WHY is violence much more accepted than sex and nudity?

I still stand by my original thought when this whole thing started. How can Sen. Clinton stand before ANYONE speaking of family values when her husband doesn't even believe it? If jr. didn't know what a blow job was, he does now. All he did was watch the news.

If Wal-Mart won't sell it because of sex content, hey, stop selling condoms, ok, that's to prevent problems. What's the lube for then? HA! (for those waiting to flame, that last part was an attempt at sarcastic humor)
 
While I disagree with most everything Cheapy said in his editorial, I still respect his opinion.

However, having a picture of someone giving the Rockstar logo The Finger on the front page just makes this website look amateurish. Like a Geocities fansite.

That's my opinion.
 
[quote name='Haggar']While I disagree with most everything Cheapy said in his editorial, I still respect his opinion.

However, having a picture of someone giving the Rockstar logo The Finger on the front page just makes this website look amateurish. Like a Geocities fansite.

That's my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I'm Howlinmad, and I approve this message.
 
[quote name='Haggar']However, having a picture of someone giving the Rockstar logo The Finger on the front page just makes this website look amateurish. Like a Geocities fansite.[/QUOTE] Come on now, surely thats only a small part of what makes this website look amateurish.
 
In the words of maddox

"I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I thought there was some mistake, this couldn't be the family-friendly carjacking game I thought I knew."

Given the situation in real life yeah it's @#%%#ed up how it was handled, but I look at it from a bigger viewpoint as in the whole country and people are retarded =p
 
This is NOT "standard practice" it is just plain careless. That content could have been removed without much work before the final ROM is made. Minor things like extra skins are not big deal, but this is whole minigame!
Click to expand...
Unused content gets left in games all the time, ie standard practice. Up until now devs never thought twice about leaving an unused piece of game in a finished product, ie standard practice.

You seem to think otherwise simply because of the amount of content that was left by R*, but when the deadline is up and the game needs to be finished there is little difference between an unused 100 meg building interior or level and an unused 100 meg minigame.

Unused content is unused content and should not be taken into account when judging the finished product.

By this ridiculous standard every game that has unused guns, blood, gore, death animations, naked or semi naked skins and audio clips with bad or racy language need to have their ratings changed - which is crazy.
 
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