Firefly: What DUMBASS decided to cancel it?

Javery

Javery

CAGiversary!
Feedback
20 (100%)
This show needs to come back. I can't believe Fox gave up on it so fast (yes, I can... it's Fox). I am watching it for the first time on Sci-fi reruns on Friday nights and it's one of the best shows I've seen in a long long time. I guess I've seen like 6 or 7 shows so far and the characters are just hitting their stride after a little bit of an awkward beginning. The episodes with the captain's "wife" and the one where they are adrift in space were amazing. I can't wait for the Serenity movie now. Hopefully it does well enough that there is a future for this awesome franchise.
 
[quote name='javeryh']This show needs to come back. I can't believe Fox gave up on it so fast (yes, I can... it's Fox). I am watching it for the first time on Sci-fi reruns on Friday nights and it's one of the best shows I've seen in a long long time. I guess I've seen like 6 or 7 shows so far and the characters are just hitting their stride after a little bit of an awkward beginning. The episodes with the captain's "wife" and the one where they are adrift in space were amazing. I can't wait for the Serenity movie now. Hopefully it does well enough that there is a future for this awesome franchise.[/QUOTE]

No joke. I can swallow that it got sh*tcanned; what burns my short and curlies is them running the show out of order. I mean, OF COURSE people are having a hard time getting into it under those circumstances. Can you imagine that with Lost or 24? Insane...
 
[quote name='javeryh']This show needs to come back. I can't believe Fox gave up on it so fast (yes, I can... it's Fox). I am watching it for the first time on Sci-fi reruns on Friday nights and it's one of the best shows I've seen in a long long time. I guess I've seen like 6 or 7 shows so far and the characters are just hitting their stride after a little bit of an awkward beginning. The episodes with the captain's "wife" and the one where they are adrift in space were amazing. I can't wait for the Serenity movie now. Hopefully it does well enough that there is a future for this awesome franchise.[/QUOTE]
Glad you're liking it. It's some damn good stuff IMHO.
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']I didn't like Firefly. I thought it deserved to be cancelled.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, if it's anything like the trailers to the movie look, then it wouldn't be my type of show.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I guess I've seen like 6 or 7 shows so far and the characters are just hitting their stride after a little bit of an awkward beginning.[/QUOTE]

I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but that's what I've heard about it also. Maybe it will do well enough on DVD and at the Theather that they'll ressurect it like they did with Family Guy.
 
It's network tv's M.O. plain and simple. Nowadays they fill their lineups with reality dreck, spinoff shows, and crappy sitcoms (Will & Grace, Joey, etc.). Truly innovative or smart shows are never given a chance. I'm amazed my beloved AD has made it to season 3.
 
I think that Firefly was too much of a niche show for a network like Fox. Firefly had to compete with X-files and Millenium and even those shows were waaay past expiration. Plus, Fox had become the bastion of bad reality tv (wait, that was ALL the major networks) so it's not really surprising it got canceled. It's too bad Scifi didn't get to pick it up in time (or funded to revive it) because it was a quality show. Truth be told, I don't think there's much to watch on normal tv anymore. The rare exceptions would be Family Guy, Simpsons, and southpark (and they're all animations and can be found on cable). And the only non-animation stuff I think is good is arrested development and maybe kitchen confidential (though it's too early to tell). I'm still a Smallville nut but I don't think it holds up too well amongst normal tv viewers. Only ppl who watch are superman fans, migrating buffy/angel fans, and teens (most of which are part of the other 2 groups anyway).
 
If you're into the show, here's a very good book:

Finding Serenity

It's a collection of essays about the show that really gets into how well-crafted it is. Reading this made me want to go back and watch the entire series again.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']If you're into the show, here's a very good book:

Finding Serenity

It's a collection of essays about the show that really gets into how well-crafted it is. Reading this made me want to go back and watch the entire series again.[/QUOTE]
I second that, that is a pretty good book. Also, if you want a primer for the upcoming movie based on the series, check out my post http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67328

If you don't mind MBE, I'm going to add your quote to the ongoing Serenity thread.
 
Well the movie is going to bomb because they are marketing it like people already know what's going on. I saw the preview and it looks like shit. I used to be excited about seeing it.
 
The show got crappy ratings, thus it was cancelled. Circumstances apply of course, but in the end TV executives are after one thing: ratings. Higher ratings lead to higher revenue from ads. There wasn't some Fox executive who had a vendetta against the show, just didn't pull in the viewers. Blame the people for not watching.

Not saying it's a crappy show (haven't seen it yet), but playing Devil's Advocate...
 
[quote name='beerguy961']The show got crappy ratings, thus it was cancelled. Circumstances apply of course, but in the end TV executives are after one thing: ratings. Higher ratings lead to higher revenue from ads. There wasn't some Fox executive who had a vendetta against the show, just didn't pull in the viewers. Blame the people for not watching.

Not saying it's a crappy show (haven't seen it yet), but playing Devil's Advocate...[/QUOTE]

I know but in this day and age of a million and one channels you really need to let a show find an audience and sometimes this takes more than one or two seasons (let alone 11 episodes) ... but the payoffs could be HUGE. Look at Seinfeld - the first season is almost painful to watch (although it fares much better in reruns because we all "get" the characters now) and if it was cancelled no one would have cared but NBC believed in it and it turned out to be one of the most popular shows of all time...
 
[quote name='javeryh']I know but in this day and age of a million and one channels you really need to let a show find an audience and sometimes this takes more than one or two seasons (let alone 11 episodes) ... but the payoffs could be HUGE. Look at Seinfeld - the first season is almost painful to watch (although it fares much better in reruns because we all "get" the characters now) and if it was cancelled no one would have cared but NBC believed in it and it turned out to be one of the most popular shows of all time...[/QUOTE]
I think part of the problem is that these days companies aren't willing to do that. They want instant results and that really isn't going to happen. Fox is pretty notorious for doing this. With Futurama, the show never really had a timeslot because episodes kept getting delayed by football games running late and such. Fox stuck with it, but never really tried to remedy the situation and thus ended the show instead. Damn shame...
 
[quote name='javeryh']I know but in this day and age of a million and one channels you really need to let a show find an audience and sometimes this takes more than one or two seasons (let alone 11 episodes) ... but the payoffs could be HUGE. Look at Seinfeld - the first season is almost painful to watch (although it fares much better in reruns because we all "get" the characters now) and if it was cancelled no one would have cared but NBC believed in it and it turned out to be one of the most popular shows of all time...[/QUOTE]
Cheers also did horribly in the ratings its first year. Firefly was on in a bad timeslot (Friday nights) for the audience it was marketed to (18-35 demo). It was pre-empted several times (at least in my area). And Fox refused to show the 2-hour pilot first forcing Whedon et al to come up with an episode (The Train Job) over the weekend that still introduced all 9 main characters.

I can't swear to this, but I've heard that in TV & movies, often one executive will greenlight a project and by the time it's developed, the exec has moved on. The new exec has neither the passion for the project or the desire to see someone's else's work prosper, so they don't nurture shows like they should. I'm not saying this is the case with Firefly because I don't know, but that would explain why networks don't always seem to be acting in their best financial interests.

Then of course there's always the fact that Firefly was a western, in space, with no aliens and a crew that swore in Chinese. :lol:

Fox has canceled plenty of quality shows that I think deserved a better chance including Greg the Bunny, Futurama, Wonderfalls, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, and The Tick.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']Cheers also did horribly in the ratings its first year. Firefly was on in a bad timeslot (Friday nights) for the audience it was marketed to (18-35 demo). It was pre-empted several times (at least in my area). And Fox refused to show the 2-hour pilot first forcing Whedon et al to come up with an episode (The Train Job) over the weekend that still introduced all 9 main characters.

I can't swear to this, but I've heard that in TV & movies, often one executive will greenlight a project and by the time it's developed, the exec has moved on. The new exec has neither the passion for the project or the desire to see someone's else's work prosper, so they don't nurture shows like they should. I'm not saying this is the case with Firefly because I don't know, but that would explain why networks don't always seem to be acting in their best financial interests.

Then of course there's always the fact that Firefly was a western, in space, with no aliens and a crew that swore in Chinese. :lol:

Fox has canceled plenty of quality shows that I think deserved a better chance including Greg the Bunny, Futurama, Wonderfalls, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, and The Tick.[/QUOTE]
I had heard good things about Wonderfalls so I rented the series, it was decent, but the main character reminded me a little too much of Georgia from Dead Like Me. It also didn't help matters that that the advertisements painted it as kind of knockoff of Joan of Arcadia, even though there completely different.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']I think that Firefly was too much of a niche show for a network like Fox. Firefly had to compete with X-files and Millenium and even those shows were waaay past expiration. Plus, Fox had become the bastion of bad reality tv (wait, that was ALL the major networks) so it's not really surprising it got canceled. It's too bad Scifi didn't get to pick it up in time (or funded to revive it) because it was a quality show. Truth be told, I don't think there's much to watch on normal tv anymore. The rare exceptions would be Family Guy, Simpsons, and southpark (and they're all animations and can be found on cable). And the only non-animation stuff I think is good is arrested development and maybe kitchen confidential (though it's too early to tell). I'm still a Smallville nut but I don't think it holds up too well amongst normal tv viewers. Only ppl who watch are superman fans, migrating buffy/angel fans, and teens (most of which are part of the other 2 groups anyway).[/QUOTE]
By the time Firefly was on the air, Millenium was long gone and X-Files was already in its last season. I think what really hurt it was that it was people were probably sick of sci-fi shows at that time. Fox had gone through its fair share of sci-fi shows that didn't pan out like Millenium, Harsh Realm, Dark Angel, etc. . . Had it come out a few years earlier it probably could have found an audience. Even it came out now it might be successful because all of sudden we're seeing an influx of sci-fi shows thanks to Lost.
 
I just finished watching the tv series a few days ago, and while it isnt my favorite sci-fi, it definately was developing into something.

Farscape FTW
 
A good point that was made regarding it's cancellation was that the show premiered in 9/02 but Fox didn't show the pilot until 12/02. Executives didn't think it was the right episode to start the series with. This is just more proof that network execs are fools. I remember watching the pilot when it aired and thinking it was a flashback but it never went back to current day. Very confusing and I'm sure it turned a lot of people off. I'm watching the DVD set now and the dialogue is just spot-on and razor sharp. Joss Whedon hires the best writers and actors to deliver the dialogue. I wish Joss and J.J. Abrams were superhuman and could produce every TV show on the air. Ah, the dreams of a fanboy.
 
[quote name='dcfox']By the time Firefly was on the air, Millenium was long gone and X-Files was already in its last season. I think what really hurt it was that it was people were probably sick of sci-fi shows at that time. Fox had gone through its fair share of sci-fi shows that didn't pan out like Millenium, Harsh Realm, Dark Angel, etc. . . Had it come out a few years earlier it probably could have found an audience. Even it came out now it might be successful because all of sudden we're seeing an influx of sci-fi shows thanks to Lost.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can claim Lost as a strictly a scifi show. The reason it's so successful is it doesn't get too formulaic and refuses to be typed into any one genre. It's Survivor meets X-files meets Real World meets X-men. I think that's part of why its successful in contrast to Firefly. Whereas Lost takes place on a, pardon the pun, known locale (a mysterious island with supernatural/scifi elements on Earth), Firefly takes place in a locale that is still mysterious by human conventions (deep space) and has scifi elements in front of you - spaceships, different planets. In Lost, the scifi elements take a backseat and focus instead on human relationships. They're kinda opposites in that regard. Lost focuses on the people's relationships while Firefly is all about spaceships and gunfights. As much as I like both series, Firefly is still too much of a niche show that it rightfully should've premiered in SciFi channel. It doesn't have the mass appeal that Lost has. I also think that's why a lot of the other shows failed - Dark Angel, Millenium, etc.
 
[quote name='Maverick CRV']Never really cared for any Joss Whedon fare. Both Buffy and Angel induced me to "blahs," so I skipped this one altogether.[/QUOTE]

I'd be the same way - but for some odd reason I really enjoyed the last few seasons of Angel.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']I don't think you can claim Lost as a strictly a scifi show. The reason it's so successful is it doesn't get too formulaic and refuses to be typed into any one genre. It's Survivor meets X-files meets Real World meets X-men. I think that's part of why its successful in contrast to Firefly. Whereas Lost takes place on a, pardon the pun, known locale (a mysterious island with supernatural/scifi elements on Earth), Firefly takes place in a locale that is still mysterious by human conventions (deep space) and has scifi elements in front of you - spaceships, different planets. In Lost, the scifi elements take a backseat and focus instead on human relationships. They're kinda opposites in that regard. Lost focuses on the people's relationships while Firefly is all about spaceships and gunfights. As much as I like both series, Firefly is still too much of a niche show that it rightfully should've premiered in SciFi channel. It doesn't have the mass appeal that Lost has. I also think that's why a lot of the other shows failed - Dark Angel, Millenium, etc.[/QUOTE]
If you think Firefly is about spaceships and gunfights, I don't think you get Firefly at all. Firefly takes place in a futuristic setting, in space, but its not about the technology or the ships in the way a show like Star Trek TNG was. Everything just works and the show doesn't try to tell you why, because thats not what its about, it doesn't need to.

Firefly is about people and about right vs wrong. The good guy is a smuggler, a thief, and a murderer. The love interest is a whore, but whores are well respected by society and have a high social standing. More often than not, they have to do something illegal to do something that is right (a concept that a lot of people here don't seem to grasp). Its not just 14 unrelated episodes with whatever the robbery of the day is. Fox wanted more action, but it doesn't hurt the show very much. In fact, Whedon turned lemons into lemonade (Fox making him do a straight action series premiere) by creating a moral dilemma. What they stole ended up being badly needed medicine. Do they finish the job and let the people die, or do they risk being caught, and risk being killed by the mob boss, and return it? This is what elevates Firefly beyond a simple scifi action flick, and into a story about people, regardless of where and when they are. Whedon compared it to Babylon 5 (another show I like) when he said, its not about ambassadors and rulers of worlds, but about regular people just trying to get by.

The series was cancelled because it was never given a chance to succeed by Fox. I did not like Buffy or Angel at all, by the way.
 
I think that Gail Berman was the programing chief at Fox when Firefly was cancelled.
According to this site the license fee per episode was 1.3 million, while they made 2.6 million from ads every episode.
 
Just an interesting thing I noticed when adding some dvds to my wishlist on Deep Discount DVD is that Firefly is #3 on the best seller list.

edit: and #10 on Amazon.com
 
There's several reasons it got canned:

1) Poor overall ratings (which means no money or lost money for Fox)

2) It got those ratings because it was a niche show on a big network, there's a reason why the big 4 don't have shows like Buffy on, their viewers aren't interested. In fact it's considered rare if a sci-fi or fantasy type show would even last past a couple seasons on a larger network.

3) It was a sci-fi show coming in at the end a sci-fi's high peak and the beginning of it's down slope on TV.

4) A very large production bill

5) His previous shows, Buffy and Angel, seemed to draw in audiences of various genders and even sometimes age groups, Firefly didn't really do this as much.

I personally enjoyed the show, but it's essentially things tied together from other various anime and sci-fi materials. The western theme was nice too, but western-style outlooks had been scene before too. I don't hold that too much against the show, but everytime someone praises it's outstanding writing and originality I think of the other shows I saw before it.
 
[quote name='beerguy961']The show got crappy ratings, thus it was cancelled. Circumstances apply of course, but in the end TV executives are after one thing: ratings. Higher ratings lead to higher revenue from ads. There wasn't some Fox executive who had a vendetta against the show, just didn't pull in the viewers. Blame the people for not watching.

Not saying it's a crappy show (haven't seen it yet), but playing Devil's Advocate...[/QUOTE]

Seinfeld got crappy ratings for its first 2 seasons, but because it was given the chance to find an audience it became one of the best tv shows ever.
 
The only cancellations that were as horrible as Firefly were Undeclared and Freaks and Geeks. They were all fantastic shows that didn't even get a full season.
 
[quote name='Drtyazn']I thought the Sci Fi channel picked it up... or are all those reruns?[/QUOTE]
reruns to drum up business for Serenity as Universal owns the Sci-fi channel.
 
[quote name='Peter Griffin'] We've just got to accept the fact that Fox has to make room for terrific shows, like Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonder Falls, Fast Lane, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Skin, Girl's Club, Cracking Up, The Pits, Firefly, Get Real, Freaky Links, Wanda at Large, Costello, The Lone Gunmen, A Minute with Stan Hooper, Normal Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddy, The Street, American Embassy, Cedric the Entertainer, The Tick, Louie, and Greg the Bunny.[/quote]

:whistle2:k
 
[quote name='camoor']I was always a fan of Farscape. I don't know if I'm crazy, but I thought that chick with the prominent nose was actually pretty hot.[/QUOTE]

She's on the new season of Stargate, along with the main dude from Farscape.
 
I am watching it on dvd, I think it is a great show, but I do understand the points on why it got canned. The cast signed on to do sequals to the movie, if it is succesful, so lets hope they bring the series back in a worse case scenerio on sci fi
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you think Firefly is about spaceships and gunfights, I don't think you get Firefly at all. Firefly takes place in a futuristic setting, in space, but its not about the technology or the ships in the way a show like Star Trek TNG was. Everything just works and the show doesn't try to tell you why, because thats not what its about, it doesn't need to.

Firefly is about people and about right vs wrong. The good guy is a smuggler, a thief, and a murderer. The love interest is a whore, but whores are well respected by society and have a high social standing. More often than not, they have to do something illegal to do something that is right (a concept that a lot of people here don't seem to grasp). Its not just 14 unrelated episodes with whatever the robbery of the day is. Fox wanted more action, but it doesn't hurt the show very much. In fact, Whedon turned lemons into lemonade (Fox making him do a straight action series premiere) by creating a moral dilemma. What they stole ended up being badly needed medicine. Do they finish the job and let the people die, or do they risk being caught, and risk being killed by the mob boss, and return it? This is what elevates Firefly beyond a simple scifi action flick, and into a story about people, regardless of where and when they are. Whedon compared it to Babylon 5 (another show I like) when he said, its not about ambassadors and rulers of worlds, but about regular people just trying to get by.

The series was cancelled because it was never given a chance to succeed by Fox. I did not like Buffy or Angel at all, by the way.[/QUOTE]

I do get it. I love the hell outta Firefly. The fact of the matter is, the scifi elements are still at the forefront of the show. Even if they don't explain how something works, it's still in your face. Again, using Lost as the comparison, the scifi elements aren't as heavily expressed as they are in Firefly. If you check out Lost, the unseen monster is only 'shown' every 6th episode or so and then it's back to people bickering and backstabbing each other. In Firefly, you're pretty much on a spaceship traveling from planet to planet. The spaceship is there and is thus unavoidable. And it's this fact that the scifi stuff is in front of you that the general audience is unwilling to give it a chance - hence the low ratings. That, and because, as someone else mentioned, scifi was on a downturn that Firefly was doomed to lose. The problem with Firefly is you essentially have 'to get it'. And the regular networks don't cater to that audience. If you look at most of their shows, they're generally stuff you can watch w/o needing to 'get it'. In other words, mindless drivel. Firefly is still too much of a niche show that it belonged to cable. It would've been better served if it premiered on Sci-Fi Channel.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']I do get it. I love the hell outta Firefly. The fact of the matter is, the scifi elements are still at the forefront of the show. Even if they don't explain how something works, it's still in your face. Again, using Lost as the comparison, the scifi elements aren't as heavily expressed as they are in Firefly. If you check out Lost, the unseen monster is only 'shown' every 6th episode or so and then it's back to people bickering and backstabbing each other. In Firefly, you're pretty much on a spaceship traveling from planet to planet. The spaceship is there and is thus unavoidable. And it's this fact that the scifi stuff is in front of you that the general audience is unwilling to give it a chance - hence the low ratings. That, and because, as someone else mentioned, scifi was on a downturn that Firefly was doomed to lose. The problem with Firefly is you essentially have 'to get it'. And the regular networks don't cater to that audience. If you look at most of their shows, they're generally stuff you can watch w/o needing to 'get it'. In other words, mindless drivel. Firefly is still too much of a niche show that it belonged to cable. It would've been better served if it premiered on Sci-Fi Channel.[/QUOTE]
I would maintain that it failed because Fox failed to promote it, and gave it one of the worst timeslots on TV. Yeah, it would have been better off on cable.

I think the DVD sales and the upcoming movie would prove that it had enough fans to do well, if people even knew about the show. I'm a big scifi fan, and I had never even heard of Firefly until after it was cancelled.

[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I personally enjoyed the show, but it's essentially things tied together from other various anime and sci-fi materials. The western theme was nice too, but western-style outlooks had been scene before too. I don't hold that too much against the show, but everytime someone praises it's outstanding writing and originality I think of the other shows I saw before it.[/QUOTE]
You could say that every TV show in the last 20 years was a copy of something else before it, or took elements from other shows/genres. It is original, in comparison to other TV shows, which are by nature copies of other, more successful shows.
 
It's Fox and Scifi, for some reason every other year they insist on starting up a new scifi show and then allow it to fall flat on its face. Remember Sliders, Earth above and Beyond, and the outer limits?

I think the problem comes when Fox makes a few episodes, realizes again what it costs to make a full hour Scifi show with a bit of CG, realizes it's going to take a few seasons or so to build up ratings and they drop it. The only reason they seem to continue doing this is the occasoinal good rating drawer like the X-Files.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I would maintain that it failed because Fox failed to promote it, and gave it one of the worst timeslots on TV. Yeah, it would have been better off on cable.

I think the DVD sales and the upcoming movie would prove that it had enough fans to do well, if people even knew about the show. I'm a big scifi fan, and I had never even heard of Firefly until after it was cancelled.


You could say that every TV show in the last 20 years was a copy of something else before it, or took elements from other shows/genres. It is original, in comparison to other TV shows, which are by nature copies of other, more successful shows.[/QUOTE]


Lots of those fans like youself, didn't watch the show til after it was cancelled. Things usually become cult hits only after falling out of the mainstream (if they were ever there). There was promotion done on the part of Fox, maybe not as much as they could, but they did promote it with some voice-overs, bumpers and ads tagged onto other series.

And I realize you could say that about every show for the past 20 years, but I don't have crazy fanboys yammering in my ear about how every show is so original. It's not, slice it anyway you want to. Why's it so orignal compared to other sci-fi shows? Because it has a western/outer space theme that he basically just took from various anime series? Sometimes I think Whedon has without a doubt the most thick-headed fanbase next to someone like Tarantino.

As for Firefly ratings, you can't pin too much blame on the timeslot. I remeber they sometimes put movies on Fridays that drew a bigger audience than Firefly. Fastlane the show that followed in the same timeslot did not have good ratings, but still drew a slightly larger average audience than Firefly IIRC. Shows like X-Files and Millennium originally aired on Fridays I think. It's not a great timeslot, and maybe has degraded even more thanks to the advent of cheap reality TV crap, but if a show if good enough it can make it with a Friday debut. Also you can't just change timeslots around on whim even to give a show a chance.

People just didn't watch the show, I don't know how else to put it and the die-hards will always try to pin the blame on anything but Whedon's poor decision to place it in the hands of big 4 network, overzealous production budgets, and inability to write a show that captured an all-inclusive audience.
 
On this note, you should all at least try out Threshold, Fridays at 9P EST/8P CST on CBS. It should definitely appeal to X-Files fans in particular. It stars Carla Gugino and, judging by the pilot, seems to be a smartly written show. I highly recommend it.

BTW, did anybody watch Invasion tonight? I taped it so NO SPOILERS, PLEASE!!! Just give your general impressions.
 
[quote name='neocisco']On this note, you should all at least try out Threshold, Fridays at 9P EST/8P CST on CBS. It should definitely appeal to X-Files fans in particular. It stars Carla Gugino and, judging by the pilot, seems to be a smartly written show. I highly recommend it.

BTW, did anybody watch Invasion tonight? I taped it so NO SPOILERS, PLEASE!!! Just give your general impressions.[/QUOTE]
Oh man, the real shocker is when ET beamed down and starting kicking ass, touching people with that glowing finger and watching them fly across the room.

*coughs* It was pretty good, a good set-up that has promise, paranoia about who to trust in a desperate situation like the aftermath of a hurricane? If implemented correctly it could be gold, and the pilot was a pretty well produced, none of the clunkiness of Threshold's first outing.

As far as Firefly advertising, I saw 30 sec promos for it a fair amount of time, but it was always that "what do X character, x character, and a in a box have in common?" Which took the initial surprise out of the pilot...had the pilot aired first instead of last...

I actually think it's a shame they didn't cut the song out out of the pilot on the dvd so people who bought it cold were genuinely surprised what was in the box, and what characters survive. That's the only thing that makes me sad about not starting cold with the dvd set, none of the twists and turns in the pilot were a surprise as you saw all the other episodes first.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Lots of those fans like youself, didn't watch the show til after it was cancelled. Things usually become cult hits only after falling out of the mainstream (if they were ever there). There was promotion done on the part of Fox, maybe not as much as they could, but they did promote it with some voice-overs, bumpers and ads tagged onto other series.

And I realize you could say that about every show for the past 20 years, but I don't have crazy fanboys yammering in my ear about how every show is so original. It's not, slice it anyway you want to. Why's it so orignal compared to other sci-fi shows? Because it has a western/outer space theme that he basically just took from various anime series? Sometimes I think Whedon has without a doubt the most thick-headed fanbase next to someone like Tarantino.

As for Firefly ratings, you can't pin too much blame on the timeslot. I remeber they sometimes put movies on Fridays that drew a bigger audience than Firefly. Fastlane the show that followed in the same timeslot did not have good ratings, but still drew a slightly larger average audience than Firefly IIRC. Shows like X-Files and Millennium originally aired on Fridays I think. It's not a great timeslot, and maybe has degraded even more thanks to the advent of cheap reality TV crap, but if a show if good enough it can make it with a Friday debut. Also you can't just change timeslots around on whim even to give a show a chance.

People just didn't watch the show, I don't know how else to put it and the die-hards will always try to pin the blame on anything but Whedon's poor decision to place it in the hands of big 4 network, overzealous production budgets, and inability to write a show that captured an all-inclusive audience.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how I get lumped in with the "thick headed fanboys".

Firefly is a good show. Did they take elements from other things? They sure did. And I don't really care, it doesn't bother me. I can sit down and watch the show without thinking of Outlaw Star or Cowboy Bebop (and I own both of those). In fact, I'm actually quite happy that they're taking other ideas instead of making a 3rd Buffy, a 5th CSI, an 18th Law and Order, a 1000th reality show, or the millionth copy of Seinfeld, Friends (two shows I hated), or whatever the hot show of the day is.

Fox wanted a 3rd Buffy, and it wasn't what they got. When they did promote the show, they potrayed it as an action/comedy, which it isn't. They slotted it in the Friday Night Death Slot. And they ran the entire series, a very story and character development driven show (i.e. not The Simpsons), out of order. It went 2, 3, 6, 8, 4, 5, 9, 10, 14, 1. Does this sound like a network that is interested in the show doing well? No wonder nobody watched it, it was extremely confusing, and people got the wrong impression. Would it have been better off on cable? Probably.

People didn't watch, but the show was completely mishandled. The great DVD sales, the movie deal, and it being picked up on the Scifi channel lead me to believe that someone out there thinks theres an audience for this, and that if Fox didn't do just about everything in their power to make the show fail, it would still be on the air today.

You do have a point about fanboys though, this isn't the greatest show ever on TV. Its pretty good, its a complete departure from what we usually see on TV, but its not the Holy Grail of television.
 
At the time Fireflay originally aired, TV was becoming a vast wasteland of reality tv. I know someone brought up this point before me, but it cannot be emphasized enough.

Firefly is the only sci fi type show my wife ever enjoyed. That's probably the biggest reason I was pissed at it's cancellation.

This article from the Onion is pretty funny. I think Fox would cancel Serenity if given the chance.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I don't see how I get lumped in with the "thick headed fanboys".

Firefly is a good show. Did they take elements from other things? They sure did. And I don't really care, it doesn't bother me. I can sit down and watch the show without thinking of Outlaw Star or Cowboy Bebop (and I own both of those). In fact, I'm actually quite happy that they're taking other ideas instead of making a 3rd Buffy, a 5th CSI, an 18th Law and Order, a 1000th reality show, or the millionth copy of Seinfeld, Friends (two shows I hated), or whatever the hot show of the day is.

Fox wanted a 3rd Buffy, and it wasn't what they got. When they did promote the show, they potrayed it as an action/comedy, which it isn't. They slotted it in the Friday Night Death Slot. And they ran the entire series, a very story and character development driven show (i.e. not The Simpsons), out of order. It went 2, 3, 6, 8, 4, 5, 9, 10, 14, 1. Does this sound like a network that is interested in the show doing well? No wonder nobody watched it, it was extremely confusing, and people got the wrong impression. Would it have been better off on cable? Probably.

People didn't watch, but the show was completely mishandled. The great DVD sales, the movie deal, and it being picked up on the Scifi channel lead me to believe that someone out there thinks theres an audience for this, and that if Fox didn't do just about everything in their power to make the show fail, it would still be on the air today.

You do have a point about fanboys though, this isn't the greatest show ever on TV. Its pretty good, its a complete departure from what we usually see on TV, but its not the Holy Grail of television.[/QUOTE]

I didn't necessarily mean to lump you in with them directly, I was just attempting to point out how Whedon's fanbase thinks everything he does is flawless and God's gift to TV. I also like how they often never credit the other writers and producers that made these shows so good (When was the last time you heard a Firefly or Buffy fan talk about Tim Minear or David Fury, two guys that actually moved on to do other great TV shows and coincidently Minear is no place to be found in Serenity's credits) and like I said always hail it for being so original and unique. It's a very die-hard fanbase. (and although it has a strong likeness to Outlaw Star and Bebop, the actual anime I think alot of the ideas are taken from, in terms of setting at least, is without a doubt Trigun).

I don't really think Fox was intentionally trying to kill the show from the start (if you want an example of that look no further than what TNT did to Crusade), but I think once they figured out no one was tuning in I do think they stopped trying. It's true, DVD sales have been strong, but lots of TV shows' DVD sales are climbing upward. Sports Night actually sold pretty well on DVD for almost a year, but you didn't see that still on the air or coming back anytime soon.
Also it being placed on the sci-fi channel I think is just publicity for Universal's movies, however a slim chance may remain for a return if the movies see alot of success, but don't expect it to come back to someplace like the sci-fi channel with a similar production budget. I without a doubt think it had a much better shot at success on cable to being with like you said. To be honest I do hope it returns as a regular series, but without some key writers, smaller production funds, and the movie changing the storylines I don't think it will be the same show.

Still, I guess to sum it all up I look at it this way, IIRC Fox did not stand in the way of Firefly being shopped around and so it was, but nobody was biting because nobody was watching. UPN even turned it down I think despite the fact their network was airing other sci-fi shows, one them being Whedon's own Buffy, and their ratings standards are much lower than those of the larger networks. Sometimes series get saved because one exec sticks their neck out, Firefly was unfortunate that Fox or any otehr network didn't really have anyone willing to do that. I admit though, if this was the mid-late 90s and Firefly found it's way onto someplace like TNT or sci-fi channel this could be another discussion entirely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top