An era of all online gaming.

I still think retail has influence, if Walmart refused to carry a games console because they felt it wasn't profitable for them then yes, walmart is a big enough player where I think it would affect sales of the games console. Keep in mind that every store has limited shelf space, a retailer can refuse a product if they can fill that shelf space with a product that generates more profit. The retailer is in it for profit and profit only, especially Walmart. Walmart has been known to refuse to sell products when manufacturers could not give them a certain percent of sales, they have so much force in the retail market that they can actually do that. If the console makers don't pony up with more incentive for retailers to sell their products their products might not end up at retail.

There are tons of people that don't shop online, though if we are talking about a games console that requires internet access to get online that should not matter as I assume the people who are going to be buying this games console already have internet access at home therefore they could purchase the games console online no problem. But just trust me on this, not everyone is buying everything online. Just look at Black Friday, people still line up at the stores 3 days before BF to get deals. Some people don't have credit cards and can only pay with cash. EBT cards don't work online, at least I don't think they do and EBT cards are probably the biggest source of income for those in my area! Some people just think of Walmart as their first stop for everything regardless of price. If online shopping was that big this would not be happening, stores would be relatively empty for the most part and parking lots would not be filled like they are here and they are filled. We all know the most superior BF deals are easier to get online and some are at online only retailers so if online shopping was really that big theoretically the stores would be empty on BF or just have a few customers per store. If online shopping was that big also stores like Walmart and Target would be closing left and right, while we have seen lots of store closures over the recent years I don't see it as being any more than any other decade in time based on my area, companies will come and go no matter what. The Gamestop's here are packed with consumers buying games, trading games and happily paying GS prices for games.

Not everyone is a CAG, in fact CAG's and deal hunters probably make up 5% of sales of video games if that even. The rest of the sales go to people who are shopping at Walmart and other retailers because they want to buy a game that they can play now. Gamestop wouldn't be in business right now if every person who played video games is a CAG since they wouldn't be able to make money with their business model, and for right now GS is doing quite well.

The music industry went digital mostly because of convenience for the consumer, its not that inconvenient to swap a game disc on a console for another one but for someone to take 100 albums with them on CD wherever they go and listen to them on a portable CD player would be quite cumbersome. Buying individual songs was also another innovation as you wouldn't have to buy a whole album if you just wanted one song from it. The iPod can hold hundreds of albums in one single device and you can take the one device where ever you go instead of hauling around 100 cd's, which is an enormous convenience for users. A home games console isn't portable therefore going digital doesn't offer a whole lot of convenience for the user other than not having a few DVD sized cases laying around in the convenience respect. For portable consoles digital only makes sense but most portable games haven't been the size of CD's and were quite easy to shove in pocket with the console itself if you wanted to play something other than what was in the system.
 
I honestly don't know how this is even an arguable point whether retailers have influence. "Walmart" pretty much answers that question.
 
I fully expect the initial generation or two after we go full DD will still have discs at retail. Similar to what a number of PC games currently do, you get the discs and a code. Code unlocks the game for use on your Steam/Origin account, and you can use the disc to install the game without having to download a 15 GB file. This also keeps discs in stores, giving Walmart/Target and all them reason enough to keep stocking consoles. If the effort is successful, and more new games are sold (overall, maybe not initially), that too will likely make Walmart and Target happy, as that should mean they do more game-selling business.

As for Gamestop...well, think about what happens if they decide not to stock any console that can't play used games, and both Microsoft and Sony release such a console. They'd only have previous-generations and Nintendo stuff. They'd have to bank on Sony and Microsoft failing, as their success would only drive more business elsewhere. But if Sony and Microsoft do fail, they still end up with just previous-gen and Nintendo stuff.
 
[quote name='confoosious']
@dmaul - amazon isn't a price incentive? They generally are cheaper than everyone else. How can you say you shop at amazon and don't care about price.[/QUOTE]

Because I have Prime and get fast shipping, and have an Amazon rewards Visa and get triple points on Amazon purchases.

Thus I don't often check whether they're cheapest on something unless it's a bigger ticket item (i.e. something over $100).
 
but that's because amazon has built a reputation as mostly being the cheapest. I could pick any random item on amazon and 9 times out of 10, it's the cheapest online and I know I can get it in two days. I'm an amazon junkie. The UPS man comes 3 times a week.

If amazon was always above another retailer that's pretty good, you wouldn't buy from amazon. That's not price inelasticity.

People who shop at Nordstrom don't care about price.
 
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I shop at Macy's, does that count? :p

I just don't really give a shit about money. I'm not materialistic, so I don't need a ton of it. I make decent money, and I love my job and don't care if I have to work pretty much right up to death.

Anyway, you're an argumentative douchebag. Ignore +1.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']I fully expect the initial generation or two after we go full DD will still have discs at retail. Similar to what a number of PC games currently do, you get the discs and a code. Code unlocks the game for use on your Steam/Origin account, and you can use the disc to install the game without having to download a 15 GB file. This also keeps discs in stores, giving Walmart/Target and all them reason enough to keep stocking consoles. If the effort is successful, and more new games are sold (overall, maybe not initially), that too will likely make Walmart and Target happy, as that should mean they do more game-selling business.

As for Gamestop...well, think about what happens if they decide not to stock any console that can't play used games, and both Microsoft and Sony release such a console. They'd only have previous-generations and Nintendo stuff. They'd have to bank on Sony and Microsoft failing, as their success would only drive more business elsewhere. But if Sony and Microsoft do fail, they still end up with just previous-gen and Nintendo stuff.[/QUOTE]

If Nintendo allowed used games when the other consoles didn't that might be just enough to keep gamestop going for a little longer anyways especially since they would still be able to carry the xbox360/PS3 gen and people can still trade in xbox360, Wii and PS3 stuff for the next gen stuff even if no used games does happen. Don't forget this gen is probably gonna have another year or 2 before the next gen really takes hold. They are also making money on selling digital download codes. They are probably safe for at least the next 3 years minimum. They could also start carrying other used products, in my town there isn't a place to trade in used electronics unless you hit the pawn which a lot of people don't want to (nearest best buy is 45 min), so they could possibly make money on that, but it would be difficult to set it up. They still carry PS2 games at least around here so I can't see them abandoning the current gen anytime soon.
 
[quote name='epobirs']
No, most people have made it abundantly clear they don't care all that much about physical copies and lending to friends, etc. They care about price. Cheap smartphone and tablet games doing terrific business but that cannot be resold have made this very clear, as have very profitable titles exclusive to XBLA, PSN, and Steam that offer no resale.[/quote]
Most people? Who is this 'most people' you speak of? It certainly is not me or anyone that I know, since we all prefer physical copies of games to some digital crap.
Don't have internet access? Then it's pretty likely you aren't in the market for much in the way of games. The companies are going to decide on a feature that represents their platform. As more features are reliant on an internet connection the easier it becomes to dismiss those without access as potential customers.
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I don't mind shelling out $5 or maybe $10 for a digital game, but just going by the prices for digitally released games that're also available in physical format I will NEVER EVER pay $30+ for a crappy downloadable file I have no way to resell if I get bored with it.
Games are already tied to specific accounts on iOS, Android, PSN, XBLA, etc. These services mostly have provisions for family accounts already, with features like parental controls. These things will gain in sophistication. But no, you aren't going to lend discs to your friends. If they have the platform they can download the demo for free.
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As long as Sony or whoever still allows gamesharing to some extent and doesn't lock games to a console via a specific IP address or whatever, then that's a non issue for me.
I am entirely confident these things will happen. The only real question is how long the transition takes. The original Xbox's download offerings never got any purchases from me. But I've bought quite a few items on the Xbox 360's choices. This went from an oddball experiment to a run of the mill experience in well under a decade. Mobile platform are almost exclusively download distribution only. Consoles and PCs offer it as an option. It isn't a huge leap for a new console to move the trend ahead.
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The DS/DS Lite/ DSi/ DSi XL/PSP1000/2000/3000 are download only? Sony seems to be the only company trying to push towards digital download only with their recent handhelds. But only if more and more people willingly accept the change will it actually become the norm and not the exception. Once people see that there is no such thing as a good sale price or a price drop on the digital versions of games will they revolt and stop supporting such moves.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I shop at Macy's, does that count? :p

I just don't really give a shit about money. I'm not materialistic, so I don't need a ton of it. I make decent money, and I love my job and don't care if I have to work pretty much right up to death.

Anyway, you're an argumentative douchebag. Ignore +1.[/QUOTE]

A guy who doesn't care about money on CAG. Yeah, that makes sense.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's my take on it as well.

I think we'll see a big move toward digital distribution next generation, but I think we're a generation for that being the only way to get games.

I think they'll use next gen doing it more, getting people more used to it, and giving more time for broadband coverage to spread, bandwith cap issues to be resolved etc. before going totally download only the next go around.

Not a lot of point in beating this dead horse more though, as these arguments have been done to death in the "no more used games" thread a few posts down.[/QUOTE]

It'll be a frog in the gradually heated pot of water progression.

At launch, there will be a specified limit for how small a game can be and still receive a disc release rather than being exclusively sold as a download. The console makers won't have to push on this as it's already happening by default. Many XBLA and PSN games now are far bigger than what was offered a few years ago. In the beginning the XBLA developers were constrained by having to be smaller than a set limit. That is reversing as download titles have become a well established part of the lineup.

But that minimum size requirement doesn't stay put. After a certain period from launch, 6 months, 9 months, a year, whatever is needed to get a good launch array in the stores filling some shelf space (it may not be much considering how much display area Gamestop is giving to DLC now) and a decent installed base going, the limit increases. Where a game had to be a minimum 2 GB it will now have to be at least 3 GB to merit a disc release. And doing stuff to pump up the size won't be allowed in the unlikely situation a publisher would would want to do so. The same game will be sold online and has to meet a checklist of requirements regarding efficiency of data volume.

A year later, the minimum size for disc release goes up again. Fewer and fewer titles become part of the resale market. The frog has been boiled without noticing how hot it was getting.

I doubt there will be any publisher resistance to this. The #1 consumer of disc space is, as always, FMV sequences. The need for this is decreasing with each generation as in-engine real-time animation becomes increasingly capable. Much of the stuff done as FMV in earlier generations can easily be done in real-time on current systems and newer machines will only be more powerful in that regard. Such real-time animation tends to be far more data efficient than straight FMV. And maintaining a single look and feel throughout the game makes for better immersion. Skyrim is a good example. It has a remarkably small install size on the Xbox version but is scarcely lacking for content.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Most people? Who is this 'most people' you speak of? It certainly is not me or anyone that I know, since we all prefer physical copies of games to some digital crap.

I don't mind shelling out $5 or maybe $10 for a digital game, but just going by the prices for digitally released games that're also available in physical format I will NEVER EVER pay $30+ for a crappy downloadable file I have no way to resell if I get bored with it.

As long as Sony or whoever still allows gamesharing to some extent and doesn't lock games to a console via a specific IP address or whatever, then that's a non issue for me.

The DS/DS Lite/ DSi/ DSi XL/PSP1000/2000/3000 are download only? Sony seems to be the only company trying to push towards digital download only with their recent handhelds. But only if more and more people willingly accept the change will it actually become the norm and not the exception. Once people see that there is no such thing as a good sale price or a price drop on the digital versions of games will they revolt and stop supporting such moves.[/QUOTE]

You misunderstand. In many tracking charts mobile platforms do not include handheld consoles. They are regarded as a separate category. The primary mobile markets are iOS and Android. Those have grown to take a far bigger chunk of revenue away from dedicated handheld gaming devices than most expected a few years ago. The size and price range of smartphone games is growing accordingly. It turns out there are plenty of customers out there who would never be seen in public holding a Vita, 3DS, or other dedicated game device. Now they don't have to and don't feel they're missing out thank to the growing support.

As for the dedicated handheld consoles, the two current lead platforms are both poised to strongly push for increasing use of downloads as a sales channel. Sony has gone much further in this direction. Nintendo has held back, thanks in part to its younger demographic focus but the 3DS has notable differences from the DSi.

On the DSi there were distinct constraints on how much downloaded content you could use. There was the SD card slot but games could only be launched from the internal memory. The 3DS allows for far more content to be purchased and used easily. Games can be launched from SD card and you can easily migrate all of your content from the included 2 GB card to a far larger one. Up to 32 GB using the supported SDHC format. (SDXC allows up to 2 TB but Nintendo hasn't indicated if they have the hardware to fully support that in the current models. It could be easily added later as the market for more capacity emerges.)

Nintendo has always been the most conservative in their online support but it is plain they expect to do a lot of their 3DS business in download form. As the 3DS display cannot be easily reproduced in print or web form, selling via videos and demos on the 3DS itself is critical.


The 'most people' I speak of are the many millions of smartphone and tablet users who've embraced those download only markets, not to mention the millions more Kindle and Nook users who've done the same for e-books.

Curious, You have a contradiction going there. A $30 download is crappy but the same item on disc for that price isn't? Shouldn't you have downloaded the demo first to see it if you like it? That has always been a problem with console games until this generation. Very few demos available unless you shell out for a pricey magazine subscription, and even then it wasn't always a playable demo. These days, if anyone downloads a bad game and decides it wasn't worth the money, they've only themselves to blame for not giving it proper scrutiny first. If in doubt, wait for it to go on sale or be featured in a DOTW. Getting those prices is my entire reason for having an XBL Gold subscription since I don't do multi-player.

The idea that there is never a good sale or price drop on digital download games is just nonsense. The Xbox 360 dashboard features an area for the sole purpose of announcing price drops. Xbox.com has a page just for DOTW promotions. None of this stuff is hidden away, requiring bargain hunters to sift through each item to see if the price changed.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I still think retail has influence, if Walmart refused to carry a games console because they felt it wasn't profitable for them then yes, walmart is a big enough player where I think it would affect sales of the games console. Keep in mind that every store has limited shelf space, a retailer can refuse a product if they can fill that shelf space with a product that generates more profit. The retailer is in it for profit and profit only, especially Walmart. Walmart has been known to refuse to sell products when manufacturers could not give them a certain percent of sales, they have so much force in the retail market that they can actually do that. If the console makers don't pony up with more incentive for retailers to sell their products their products might not end up at retail.

There are tons of people that don't shop online, though if we are talking about a games console that requires internet access to get online that should not matter as I assume the people who are going to be buying this games console already have internet access at home therefore they could purchase the games console online no problem. But just trust me on this, not everyone is buying everything online. Just look at Black Friday, people still line up at the stores 3 days before BF to get deals. Some people don't have credit cards and can only pay with cash. EBT cards don't work online, at least I don't think they do and EBT cards are probably the biggest source of income for those in my area! Some people just think of Walmart as their first stop for everything regardless of price. If online shopping was that big this would not be happening, stores would be relatively empty for the most part and parking lots would not be filled like they are here and they are filled. We all know the most superior BF deals are easier to get online and some are at online only retailers so if online shopping was really that big theoretically the stores would be empty on BF or just have a few customers per store. If online shopping was that big also stores like Walmart and Target would be closing left and right, while we have seen lots of store closures over the recent years I don't see it as being any more than any other decade in time based on my area, companies will come and go no matter what. The Gamestop's here are packed with consumers buying games, trading games and happily paying GS prices for games.

Not everyone is a CAG, in fact CAG's and deal hunters probably make up 5% of sales of video games if that even. The rest of the sales go to people who are shopping at Walmart and other retailers because they want to buy a game that they can play now. Gamestop wouldn't be in business right now if every person who played video games is a CAG since they wouldn't be able to make money with their business model, and for right now GS is doing quite well.

The music industry went digital mostly because of convenience for the consumer, its not that inconvenient to swap a game disc on a console for another one but for someone to take 100 albums with them on CD wherever they go and listen to them on a portable CD player would be quite cumbersome. Buying individual songs was also another innovation as you wouldn't have to buy a whole album if you just wanted one song from it. The iPod can hold hundreds of albums in one single device and you can take the one device where ever you go instead of hauling around 100 cd's, which is an enormous convenience for users. A home games console isn't portable therefore going digital doesn't offer a whole lot of convenience for the user other than not having a few DVD sized cases laying around in the convenience respect. For portable consoles digital only makes sense but most portable games haven't been the size of CD's and were quite easy to shove in pocket with the console itself if you wanted to play something other than what was in the system.[/QUOTE]

It should be noted that Walmart carries a good number of products that don't include Walmart in the software sales to follow the hardware purchase. Smartphones, of course, but also iPod Touch, iPad, Kindle, and other digital content consumption devices. Walmart sees good margins on the accessories and thus finds it worth their time to sell the base product at scarcely any profit. Walmart makes a tiny margin on items like XBLA point cards but the display area for those is very small, so it works out well to pick up the business from those who don't want or cannot have a credit card attached to their XBL account.

Getting shelf space at the big chains like Walmart with a download oriented product isn't a problem. Apple and amazon already have it covered.

Ease of transport in a handheld is a big attraction, of course. This is my primary reason for having the device that shall not be named for my DS, even though I own hundreds of completely legit DS and GBA games. With flash memory densities making standards like SD fall under $1 a GB it's becoming a must. One of my biggest resistances to the PS Vita is the high price of their memory cards. Much of this goes to the retailer in exchange for that card enabling download sales. It's also why memory modules and Xbox 360 hard drives are so high priced compared to their generic versions. That has given way on the Xbox as they now allow generic flash drives to be used in up to 16 GB units. And Nintendo has chosen to go with standard SD cards on their most recent systems. Even if the Vita price drops considerably, the memory cards need to come more in line with SD prices before I'll likely buy. Being able to carry a good library is a selling point but only if there isn't a severe penalty.

Plenty of people regularly pack up their game console and take it over to a friend's house. Nearly every console of the past fifteen years has seen accessories specifically for enabling this. (The great thing about getting the Virtual Boy for $20 at Blockbuster is they through in the carrying case left over from its failed rental career. But that was an unusual situation.) I've never liked the idea of a backpack that announced it contained a PS3 or other attractive item. Why not just hold up a sign saying, "Mug me! I'm carrying good stuff you can fence quickly!" (Actually, I have a spare original Xbox in a Xbox backpack but it came that way in a promo package for review. Gift horse:mouth:etc.)

A console that has an extensive library on board without a pile of media lends itself even better to this. One reason I don't expect to see an always on internet connection as a requirement for all software is that it prevents the use of the console in some scenarios that are a small sector of the market but would create unnecessary annoyance. Some people may lack good connections at a place where they want to game but can bring the machine to another location for doing the downloads, Automotive entertainment is another one. A niche market but a very affluent customer base. (You could get around this with something like a cellular modem but that would still have limits and could get very pricey if you don't keep an eye on the usage.) The PC gaming sector has made it clear how annoying always on can be to entirely legit users.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Not everyone needs price incentive. I don't bargain shop much anymore now that I make good money. If I want to buy something I generally just go on Amazon and buy it. Games are one exception as I'm not that into them anymore. But for a movie, book or other random thing I want, I just tend to buy it without checking around for deals.

And publishers and stores could care less if people like CAGs all died in a fire. Remember the Best Buy exec who talked about "demon shoppers" or whatever he called those that were just coming in for loss leader items, coupons, price matches etc.--and thus were customers they lost money on and wanted to find ways to keep them away?

Publishers, retailers etc. are increasingly trying to find ways to just profit off people willing to pay full retail, or close to it, and don't care about shopping around for bargains. The CAG/Slickdeals/Fatwallet people are customers they really don't want. Same with people who buy used, trade in games etc. as they aren't making much profit off them anyway.

In a perfect world for them, they will find a way to make profits the same or larger as what they make now by just selling games to people willing to buy new at whatever price they're charging, and they hope they can do that by getting enough of the used game buyers to still buy games in a digital setting.

Again, time will tell if they can do it, what prices the market will accept for digital only games etc.[/QUOTE]

Funny thing, I bargain shop for its own sake. It's a game in of itself.

As a result, I spend a lot more on gaming than I should for the actual amount of playing I get to do. It was easier to justify when I was the game librarian for the extended family but the nephews and nieces are all grown now and live too far away to borrow stuff anymore.

Someday I want to see an episode of 'Hoarders' featuring a house that is very neat but full to insanity of game stuff. Then I'll be able to point at the TV and say, "See! It could be a lot worse, so stop complaining!" Then the other person will respond that they cannot see the TV because a shelf of games is blocking their view.
 
[quote name='icebeast']$5 in savings per copy is a very large amount of money when we talk about the numbers of copies that games typically sell (even ones that aren't huge releases), lets just imagine a company sells 100,000 copies of their game (not really an impressive number of copies) they just saved half a million dollars.

Of course the actual saving really depends on how much the digital distributor charges to host the game, but just getting rid of the physical aspects will probably save a bunch of money too, I mean even if we imagine that large publishers get insane discounts on manual printing, disc, and cases we can probably assume it costs maybe around $1 per copy created, that is a $100,000 savings on that previously discussed imaginary game (doesn't surprise me at all that so many publishers are already dropping manuals and replacing them with in-game ones).[/QUOTE]

Don't forget, when a game publisher orders a run of Wii discs from Nintendo, it's cash up front. Along with the royalty payments. This is one of the reasons XBLA and PSN are the sole venues for the smallest game companies. They simply cannot muster the capital for the manufacturing costs before they've sold a single item.

With downloaded content, there is no manufacturing cost and royalties are paid only on items sold. This is a huge advantage for letting smaller companies enter the console market. And why a lot of experienced developers would rather do $5 smartphone games. They can have their own company and see a far larger portion of the profit from their effort. The total revenue may be on a lesser scale than working on a mega-title for EA but the actual net earnings and general quality of life is better.

The $60 game is going to be increasingly hard to justify for publishers. They'll need to focus more on reaching a large audience quickly for a lower price instead of the current focus of hitting a relatively narrow audience at a high price. They pretty much need to operate more like the film industry but without the fantasy accounting. (All the best storytelling in Hollywood is on spreadsheets.)
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Music is different though, since you can still by a CD if you want. And I still do for the most part.

[/QUOTE]

Not for long. Several major labels have announced they intend to produce far fewer CDs and eventually much new material will have no CD release at all. They've gone from hating the download to seeing it as their core business.
 
[quote name='confoosious']It's not the $500k, or even $5m as a straight cost savings, it's the selling that GameStop people do.


Look, I know that we know the games and what's new and good. But spend 20 minutes inside a GameStop an you'll realize how many customers have zero clue what to get.

How many times have you been in GS and heard the clerk tell a customer that they totally need to preorder Mario party?

How much is that worth?

Also how many people are willing to forego physical copies for a $10 savings? (again not cags who hardly even pay $30 for a physical copy).

Remember music was sold at 99 cents. A huge pop album has 4 hit songs? That's $13 savings over a Sam goody cd. That's the reason for that switch. Plus the convenience of buying it and loading it onto your iPod quickly.

@dmaul - amazon isn't a price incentive? They generally are cheaper than everyone else. How can you say you shop at amazon and don't care about price.[/QUOTE]

Actually, getting rid of GameStop is a huge savings. Game publishers spend millions on co-op advertising with GameStop. When GameStop pushes a game, it's because they've been paid to do so. In-store displays, endcap arrangements, window posters, all of those have price tags.

Likewise, when a game fails to do as well as expected, big retailers like GameStop get writedown credits to keep them happy and allow the inventory to be sharply discounted and go away. This is simply not an issue in a download market where nothing is manufactured in advance.

The money not spent on retail co-op can be better placed into direct outreach to the customers. When you buy a game you are effectively registering the purchase as if you sent in the postcard from a game package. When the sequel or add-on comes out you can bet you'll be notified by e-mail. No need for a GameStop clerk to bring it up.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Not for long. Several major labels have announced they intend to produce far fewer CDs and eventually much new material will have no CD release at all. They've gone from hating the download to seeing it as their core business.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I'm sure CDs will eventually go away. I don't buy much music anymore anyway, mainly just new albums from bands I've been into for years.

I pretty much only listen to MP3s--other than keeping a CD or two in the car. I just like buying cds to have a hard copy I can re-rip if I happen to lose my MP3s (which is unlikely as I have them multiple places).

But it will be interesting to see how long it is before major releases (for me stuff like DMB, Pearl Jam) etc. get to the point of having no CD release. It will happen sooner for smaller label stuff, bands aimed at younger generations etc.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Actually, getting rid of GameStop is a huge savings. Game publishers spend millions on co-op advertising with GameStop. When GameStop pushes a game, it's because they've been paid to do so. In-store displays, endcap arrangements, window posters, all of those have price tags.

Likewise, when a game fails to do as well as expected, big retailers like GameStop get writedown credits to keep them happy and allow the inventory to be sharply discounted and go away. This is simply not an issue in a download market where nothing is manufactured in advance.

The money not spent on retail co-op can be better placed into direct outreach to the customers. When you buy a game you are effectively registering the purchase as if you sent in the postcard from a game package. When the sequel or add-on comes out you can bet you'll be notified by e-mail. No need for a GameStop clerk to bring it up.[/QUOTE]

Yes, nothing is ever free. There's always a "kickback" somewhere in the money trail. Nobody is saying they wouldn't save money if they cut out Gamestop.

It depends on what you think is the better advertising vehicle. Publishers don't pay gamestop to push the games because it doesn't work.

You have to take away all the hatred all of us has for gamestop. The proof is in the pudding and gamestop is very good at what it does, which is push games towards soccer moms and non-dealhunters.

If it was easy to cut out the middle man, don't you think it would have been done already?

I'm not arguing that in a perfect world for them, publishers would be able to market directly to consumers and deliver goods directly to them. I'm just saying Gamestop holds significant influence right now in the distribution channel. To which that dude dothog said something along the lines that no retailers have influence on an industry. Which is clearly not true because of one answer: walmart.

And in the video game industry, it's gamestop. It was actually his ridiculously flippant remark about how gamestop has about as much influence as cinnabon that started this whole argument. (And of course he's not around anymore cause he's wrong.) If gamestop didn't have influence, the publishers wouldn't be in such a rush to kill them.

To quote Reggie Jackson, they don't boo nobodies.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Curious, You have a contradiction going there. A $30 download is crappy but the same item on disc for that price isn't? Shouldn't you have downloaded the demo first to see it if you like it? That has always been a problem with console games until this generation. Very few demos available unless you shell out for a pricey magazine subscription, and even then it wasn't always a playable demo. These days, if anyone downloads a bad game and decides it wasn't worth the money, they've only themselves to blame for not giving it proper scrutiny first. If in doubt, wait for it to go on sale or be featured in a DOTW. Getting those prices is my entire reason for having an XBL Gold subscription since I don't do multi-player.[/quote]
I watch YouTube videos and read reviews from both pro sites and individual gamers to gauge if I wanna pick up a game as I'd rather not waste 2-3gb's or whatever of HDD space and the time to download it if I'm gonna hate it. If I'm still on the fence, then I'll wait till I see it really cheap later on on clearance and spend maybe $10-$20 to pick it up. If I hate it, then chances are I can still get my money back via a trade-in.

As for the valuation I give a physical copy versus a digital download version of a game, even a crappy game is worth $30 on a disc to me since I can still likely sell/trade it for $15-20 if it's a new enough release. With the digital download version I'm stuck with the files on my HDD unless I'm willing to sell my username(not allowed on PSN/XBL) along with those games I didn't like.
The idea that there is never a good sale or price drop on digital download games is just nonsense. The Xbox 360 dashboard features an area for the sole purpose of announcing price drops. Xbox.com has a page just for DOTW promotions. None of this stuff is hidden away, requiring bargain hunters to sift through each item to see if the price changed.
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While there is a section for sales on PSN as well, I personally feel that there are not nearly enough GOOD sales(50%+ off) on content I might actually purchase. It seems like a lot of the same content is put on discount or given away 'free' to PS+ users, but the good discounts don't apply unless you paid Sony $50 a year for PS+.

Thus far since I've been using the free PS+ codes I received in my email a while ago and one from a deal on CAG I've seen exactly ZERO items I would likely buy go on sale for the prices I would likely pay. Then again, I am very rarely willing to pay over $5-10 for a copy of a game that's digital download only, even if that's the only form it's ever been available in. So maybe that's part of the problem.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Funny thing, I bargain shop for its own sake. It's a game in of itself.

As a result, I spend a lot more on gaming than I should for the actual amount of playing I get to do. It was easier to justify when I was the game librarian for the extended family but the nephews and nieces are all grown now and live too far away to borrow stuff anymore.

Someday I want to see an episode of 'Hoarders' featuring a house that is very neat but full to insanity of game stuff. Then I'll be able to point at the TV and say, "See! It could be a lot worse, so stop complaining!" Then the other person will respond that they cannot see the TV because a shelf of games is blocking their view.[/QUOTE]

I have seen hoarders many times but about 95% of the time the people have nothing but trash in their house, as in real trash like spoiled food and crumpled newspaper. I need to watch hoarders so I don't become one! There are episodes of hoarders where people have collections but those collections are almost always buried under tons of stuff so that you can't even see the collection, or the collection is dirty and not neat or they have a lot of non working, dirty stuff they call a collection. There was a woman who had a lot of older computer stuff but her stuff looked mostly in various states of disrepair, disrepair as in water damaged, dirty and roach infested. They tend to save the nice collections for different shows like My crazy obsession where they had a guy who had 28 washing machines and a ton of vintage appliances, all nice and neat and set up and ready to use. Its not games but still a collection to be proud of and the stuff can be used which is always a plus.
 
i was able to get access to my steam account again so im looking foward to gettting into pc gaming again once i get a new tower. with the way consoles are looking to go and with the lower prices of multi plats on pc its worth it to invest in pc gaming in the long run.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I have seen hoarders many times but about 95% of the time the people have nothing but trash in their house, as in real trash like spoiled food and crumpled newspaper. I need to watch hoarders so I don't become one! There are episodes of hoarders where people have collections but those collections are almost always buried under tons of stuff so that you can't even see the collection, or the collection is dirty and not neat or they have a lot of non working, dirty stuff they call a collection. There was a woman who had a lot of older computer stuff but her stuff looked mostly in various states of disrepair, disrepair as in water damaged, dirty and roach infested. They tend to save the nice collections for different shows like My crazy obsession where they had a guy who had 28 washing machines and a ton of vintage appliances, all nice and neat and set up and ready to use. Its not games but still a collection to be proud of and the stuff can be used which is always a plus.[/QUOTE]

We forced my mother to watch that show. It's never been a problem of actual rotting garbage or anything unsanitary. Just accumulated stuff. She is perpetually convinced that she'll cash in on garage sales or taking it all to the swap meet. She's in her 80s so she cannot do either without a lot of help from somebody else and it is an utter waste of time. No better than minimum wage for the time invested.

This might have ended a long time ago but whenever a friend or relative of hers would have a bunch of junk to be rid of she'd take it in! And since we moved in 2004 we've had a LOT less space to work with. I personally gave up a lot of stuff, primarily my books. But I was spending an absurd amount of money to keep it all in storage and not have easy access to it. Once I had a Kindle and could obtain anything I really wanted, it became a lot easier to give it up. I also got rid of the older game collections that could be reduced to a DVD and an emulator on a PC.

Getting her to get rid of junk that was never even her stuff to begin with has been a real problem. She is a prisoner of other people's junk and paying for it. We've told her in no uncertain words that whatever is in that storage locker that doesn't grab somebody interest in an hour's examination is going straight to the nearest dumpster with no attempt at any kind of sale.

A friend of hers lost her husband about three years ago and still subscribes to the newspaper he read. She doesn't read it. It just piles up in grocery bags in her garage. My mother had recently given up subscribing to the same regional paper and just getting the local major paper. Does she tell her friend it's time to cancel the subscription? No, she loads up her car with the bagged up newspapers, insisting she was going to read them.

My sister and I put our collective foot down when we became aware of this.

I had a much older cousin on my mother's side who was worse. Clearing out his house when he died was scary. The scattered coins and small denomination cash in among the piles of old bills and stuff added up to hundreds of dollars. The little seal-a-meal packets of hashish added up to a hell of a lot more but I've been away from that sort of thing too long to have any idea of exact value. He had multiple storage lockers rented and it took a while to figure out where they all were.

So a genetic tendency seems to be there. It compels me to go on a grand purge at least once a year to find stuff that is no longer needed. I used to bring home a lot of literature from trade shows but the web has largely eliminated that problem.
 
[quote name='confoosious']Yes, nothing is ever free. There's always a "kickback" somewhere in the money trail. Nobody is saying they wouldn't save money if they cut out Gamestop.

It depends on what you think is the better advertising vehicle. Publishers don't pay gamestop to push the games because it doesn't work.

You have to take away all the hatred all of us has for gamestop. The proof is in the pudding and gamestop is very good at what it does, which is push games towards soccer moms and non-dealhunters.

If it was easy to cut out the middle man, don't you think it would have been done already?

I'm not arguing that in a perfect world for them, publishers would be able to market directly to consumers and deliver goods directly to them. I'm just saying Gamestop holds significant influence right now in the distribution channel. To which that dude dothog said something along the lines that no retailers have influence on an industry. Which is clearly not true because of one answer: walmart.

And in the video game industry, it's gamestop. It was actually his ridiculously flippant remark about how gamestop has about as much influence as cinnabon that started this whole argument. (And of course he's not around anymore cause he's wrong.) If gamestop didn't have influence, the publishers wouldn't be in such a rush to kill them.

To quote Reggie Jackson, they don't boo nobodies.[/QUOTE]

I don't hate GameStop. They didn't invent co-op advertising. They're just the current kings of it in the console gaming industry.

But then, I didn't hate Blockbuster either. But if you asked me in 2002 whether there would still be a Blockbuster store on every other block in Southern CA in ten years, I'd have told you then they would be all gone or nearly so. Today, they're nearly all gone. Their core business stopped making sense for too much of the market.

GameStop has an absurd density in my region. Two of them are across the street from each other, with one inside a large shopping mall while the other is outdoor storefront a few doors down from a Target. Another is just a few miles south on the nearby freeway. Another still somewhat farther to the north. Extending out farther to the San Fernando Valley, they aren't as common as Blockbusters were upon a time but the volume of stores is absurd. It will only take a slight downturn to cause a bunch of stores to be shut down and I expect to see it within three years.

It is little different in most major metro areas. I recall a mall near the convention center in San Diego with multiple GameStops, one on each floor. (A lot of those are holdovers from when the malls had a Software, Etc. and an Electronic Boutique before one ate the other.)

They pay GameStop because GameStop demands it. This is something big retailers have been doing for decades for many kinds of products. Back in the 80s when I worked in a computer store we had to sell some major items for cost to compete. But the big companies like Epson offered 'spiffs' to make it worth pushing their product. It essentially meant I was getting my commission from Epson instead of my employer. It also meant that Epson was the best damn printer in the world.

When small computer dealers largely died off, the Epsons of the industry were perfectly happy to work through big online companies like Amazon. It was more cost effective and they moved more product than they ever did through the small shops.

No, it isn't easy to cut out the middle-man. It wasn't even a possibility until a few years ago. The word 'disintermediation' was big during the dot.bomb bubble but like a lot of things was highly premature. It was accurate but failed to consider how long some things take. Broadband internet service needed to reach a certain percentage of consumers. Done. Consumers needed to be made conceptually aware of downloading as a sales channel for software. Done. Many such platforms are now thriving.

Their focus on used game sales makes the relationship with GameStop a love-hate problem. The co-op demands is another issue but the general public has little awareness of that. Ultimately, though, it is about efficiency. A pure download platform offers levels of efficiency for Apple and Amazon that the console makers have long lusted after. This is something they were going to do even if there were no used game sales.

GameStop knows where things are headed. They negotiate the shortest leases they can for their storefronts. They have plans well in place for reducing the store density as retail sales dry up and ultimately withdrawing from less profitable regions altogether as the business winds down.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-gamestop-idUSBRE8320U320120403

They won't come out and say, yeah, this is a dying business but it doesn't take much effort to read between the lines. They suck out as much money as they can before it's time to go looking for new prospects.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I watch YouTube videos and read reviews from both pro sites and individual gamers to gauge if I wanna pick up a game as I'd rather not waste 2-3gb's or whatever of HDD space and the time to download it if I'm gonna hate it. If I'm still on the fence, then I'll wait till I see it really cheap later on on clearance and spend maybe $10-$20 to pick it up. If I hate it, then chances are I can still get my money back via a trade-in.

As for the valuation I give a physical copy versus a digital download version of a game, even a crappy game is worth $30 on a disc to me since I can still likely sell/trade it for $15-20 if it's a new enough release. With the digital download version I'm stuck with the files on my HDD unless I'm willing to sell my username(not allowed on PSN/XBL) along with those games I didn't like.

While there is a section for sales on PSN as well, I personally feel that there are not nearly enough GOOD sales(50%+ off) on content I might actually purchase. It seems like a lot of the same content is put on discount or given away 'free' to PS+ users, but the good discounts don't apply unless you paid Sony $50 a year for PS+.

Thus far since I've been using the free PS+ codes I received in my email a while ago and one from a deal on CAG I've seen exactly ZERO items I would likely buy go on sale for the prices I would likely pay. Then again, I am very rarely willing to pay over $5-10 for a copy of a game that's digital download only, even if that's the only form it's ever been available in. So maybe that's part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

That is the strangest rationale I've heard in a while. You don't want to take the time to download a game demo because you might not like it? You don't have to sit there and wait for it. You're allowed to go off and do other things. And if you don't like it you can delete it to get back all of the hard drive space consumed. Doesn't cost a thing but the time to determine if you like the game.

What is hard drive space for but to fill it? This reminds me of the people who don't understand caching and get upset when seems their OS is using up all of their RAM. As if empty RAM gave them some benefit. If I'm running out of HD space it is time to get more or examine what it is being used for and see what is still needed and what can go to live on external media.

As for resale value, if you hate it, isn't it likely almost everyone else did as well? And the trade-in value dropped like a stone? Under current circumstances, a game down to $30 should already be a known item in that regard. I hold out for the lowest prices, close to $10 typically. That way, I can purposefully buy a horrible game just to see first hand the awfulness of it. A little side benefit to CAGiness. It's sort of a hobby.

I've done nearly all of my download purchasing for consoles on XBLA. Except for some very cheap Indie games, everything I've gotten has been on a half-price or lower sale. There isn't something I want every week. Which is just as well considering how much I've already bought. I don't know if I'd be unhappy with Sony's choices, as I haven't found their options as enticing. But it may just be a matter of taste, in which case there is no hope to be had.

There is a price to having tastes that run counter to the mainstream. I'll never get any benefit from a promotion on Madden or any other sports title because the very idea of pretending to play sports on a computer feels dumb to me. I look to video games for things I cannot do in real life. But millions of people buy those games and I cannot complain that the companies offer enticements to encourage them, while items I favor struggle to earn their way. There is a price to desiring those things few others want.
 
[quote name='epobirs']That is the strangest rationale I've heard in a while. You don't want to take the time to download a game demo because you might not like it? You don't have to sit there and wait for it. You're allowed to go off and do other things. And if you don't like it you can delete it to get back all of the hard drive space consumed. Doesn't cost a thing but the time to determine if you like the game.[/quote]
I have very rarely, if ever, just let my console sit here powered on unless I'm in the same room as it. The only time I let it download a demo and did something else(sleep) was the God Of War 3 demo, but since then I refuse to let the console powered on while I'm off doing other stuff.

Call it a quirk, but knowing my luck the thing would download improperly and/or be corrupted and have to be RE-downloaded, thus wasting MORE time. That's why I normally don't download demos in the first place, since it seems like a giant waste of my time especially on my connection(768kbps DSL).

What would take a couple hours for some takes my connection 6-12 in some cases. But part of that is my fault for not wanting to pay over $20 a month for my internet, the other part is that the ISP's haven't lowered prices as broadband has gained more ground in the market.
What is hard drive space for but to fill it? This reminds me of the people who don't understand caching and get upset when seems their OS is using up all of their RAM. As if empty RAM gave them some benefit. If I'm running out of HD space it is time to get more or examine what it is being used for and see what is still needed and what can go to live on external media.
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I don't think I've ever filled a hard drive in my life. I just don't download that much shit to do so.
As for resale value, if you hate it, isn't it likely almost everyone else did as well? And the trade-in value dropped like a stone? Under current circumstances, a game down to $30 should already be a known item in that regard. I hold out for the lowest prices, close to $10 typically. That way, I can purposefully buy a horrible game just to see first hand the awfulness of it. A little side benefit to CAGiness. It's sort of a hobby.
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I used the $30 price as an example, but chances are if I'm still undecided on a game I'd probably wait till it's $20 or under. At $20 I can tolerate having bought a crappy game I hate. Under $20 and I may even use it as a frisbee if the resale value just isn't there.
 
[quote name='RELISCH']so there are rumors of the next gen systems (ps4, xbox 720) having all download libraries. this saddens me.

first off, sony tried that with the psp go. it sold terribly. downloadable games are cool and all, but people like their physical copies. game collectors, friends lending games to friends, gamestop. these are just some examples of people who need physical copies of games.

second off, what if you don't have internet? no gaming for you? even single player? that's bullshit. and yes i realize most everyone has a reliable internet connection, but some a lot of people who live in my area do not. so gaming in the next gen would be impossible for them.

third, there are rumors of the games being tied to one account and only available via a cloud server. so, families with multiple accounts can;t share games? friends can't lend their games to other friends? when your internet goes down you can't even continue story mode? doesn't sound like fun to me.

and not to mention what else changes in gaming if this happens. gamefly will have to change their format completely. anyone who collects will have to stop at the current generation. gamestop will be ruined (no one cares). no more midnight releases of block buster games. instead we will all get codes 2 hours early so our game can be downloaded to our consoles by 12am. and multiple accounts for one person? forget it.


well i just felt like ranting. what do you guys think of this rumored game marketplace?[/QUOTE]

I'd have no reason to buy a console that did that. I can already get DRM laden games through download on PC...and thanks to GOG I can even buy a ton of games with NO DRM on PC. So why would I buy a console that I can't own games for?

Just wish I knew if one of the companies was going to do that next time, as I'd ditch their current system and just focus on the other company's system.
 
[quote name='epobirs']We forced my mother to watch that show. It's never been a problem of actual rotting garbage or anything unsanitary. Just accumulated stuff. She is perpetually convinced that she'll cash in on garage sales or taking it all to the swap meet. She's in her 80s so she cannot do either without a lot of help from somebody else and it is an utter waste of time. No better than minimum wage for the time invested.

This might have ended a long time ago but whenever a friend or relative of hers would have a bunch of junk to be rid of she'd take it in! And since we moved in 2004 we've had a LOT less space to work with. I personally gave up a lot of stuff, primarily my books. But I was spending an absurd amount of money to keep it all in storage and not have easy access to it. Once I had a Kindle and could obtain anything I really wanted, it became a lot easier to give it up. I also got rid of the older game collections that could be reduced to a DVD and an emulator on a PC.

Getting her to get rid of junk that was never even her stuff to begin with has been a real problem. She is a prisoner of other people's junk and paying for it. We've told her in no uncertain words that whatever is in that storage locker that doesn't grab somebody interest in an hour's examination is going straight to the nearest dumpster with no attempt at any kind of sale.

A friend of hers lost her husband about three years ago and still subscribes to the newspaper he read. She doesn't read it. It just piles up in grocery bags in her garage. My mother had recently given up subscribing to the same regional paper and just getting the local major paper. Does she tell her friend it's time to cancel the subscription? No, she loads up her car with the bagged up newspapers, insisting she was going to read them.

My sister and I put our collective foot down when we became aware of this.

I had a much older cousin on my mother's side who was worse. Clearing out his house when he died was scary. The scattered coins and small denomination cash in among the piles of old bills and stuff added up to hundreds of dollars. The little seal-a-meal packets of hashish added up to a hell of a lot more but I've been away from that sort of thing too long to have any idea of exact value. He had multiple storage lockers rented and it took a while to figure out where they all were.

So a genetic tendency seems to be there. It compels me to go on a grand purge at least once a year to find stuff that is no longer needed. I used to bring home a lot of literature from trade shows but the web has largely eliminated that problem.[/QUOTE]

I have this problem in my household because I live with my grandparents but fortunately the hoard is all in the basement and I literately do not have anything that is mine in the basement, I can't clean it up since I can't touch another person's stuff without their consent and neither of them is fit to clean up the mess they created. Its not unsanitary stuff or bugs but its more like their refusal to throw out anything that looks like it could be of worth and there is plenty of space to walk. The only way this hoard is getting cleaned up is if the grandparents die..

I used to be a really bad hoarder when I was younger and in my teenage years, I had a whole room full of bags of stuff and the room was filled to the top, but I came to my senses and cleaned it up and now I don't have anything that is considered junk and if I decide I don't want stuff anymore I sell it on ebay or donate it or give it away.

I cleaned out my aunt's apartment when I was a teenager, the amount of change brought out of that place was so much I could not even lift the bag of it myself, we had half of a gym bag filled with pennies and other coins.

Yard sales here totally aren't worth it, it costs like $35 to put an ad in the paper and no one around here has any money, so you have to sell most things for a dollar or under or else people simply won't have the money for it. By the time you make your money back from the ad and do all the work of putting things out and pricing things it just isn't worth it. If you are getting rid of junk its just easier to donate it all or put the good things on ebay and donate the rest, you will do better shipping it out to ebay buyers rather than selling to the locals at 25 cents to a dollar for items. The only way its worth it here is if you live on a super busy street and if you have a lot of large items like appliances to sell then you can advertise each individual item on craigslist and say its available for viewing at our yard sale at specified date and time.
 
I don't hoard stuff at all. Never really did, and I got rid of a ton of stuff the last time I moved. If not for my TV and TV Stand, I could easily move in one trip in one of the uHaul vans (the white vans, not the moving trucks) as I've just rented furnished places since moving. So I just have my DVDs/Blurays, CDs, clothes, kitchen stuff and electronics really. Along with a few knick knacks, pictures etc.

And yeah, yard sales are often more trouble than they're worth. I just donate stuff to Goodwill usually when I have stuff I don't need anymore, or need to get rid of stuff before a move.

I did use Craigslist to get rid of furniture when I moved last time--but it was just giving away furniture and was in a major city so everything went very quickly.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't hoard stuff at all. Never really did, and I got rid of a ton of stuff the last time I moved. If not for my TV and TV Stand, I could easily move in one trip in one of the uHaul vans (the white vans, not the moving trucks) as I've just rented furnished places since moving. So I just have my DVDs/Blurays, CDs, clothes, kitchen stuff and electronics really. Along with a few knick knacks, pictures etc.

And yeah, yard sales are often more trouble than they're worth. I just donate stuff to Goodwill usually when I have stuff I don't need anymore, or need to get rid of stuff before a move.

I did use Craigslist to get rid of furniture when I moved last time--but it was just giving away furniture and was in a major city so everything went very quickly.[/QUOTE]

Craigslist isn't bad for getting rid of large non-shippable things like furniture. Used furniture sells really good around here second hand so if you have something you don't need its a good idea to sell it on CL. I have used them to get rid of furniture too. But it depends if you have time to set up appointments and stuff and if you are willing to let people in your house to see the item you are offering. Fortunately scammers are rare with furniture, but I wouldn't sell electronics on there.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Craigslist isn't bad for getting rid of large non-shippable things like furniture. Used furniture sells really good around here second hand so if you have something you don't need its a good idea to sell it on CL. I have used them to get rid of furniture too. But it depends if you have time to set up appointments and stuff and if you are willing to let people in your house to see the item you are offering. Fortunately scammers are rare with furniture, but I wouldn't sell electronics on there.[/QUOTE]

Good luck on collectibles though. I've been trying to find a legit buyer for the same item from my cousin's estate for three years. This is the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Beatles box set. #19xxx of 25,000 made. A genuine rare collector's item.

Every time I put it on Craig's List I get deluged with the stupidest scams. They don't even notice they've approached me numerous times before, as their automation is that lacking. Worse, I get idiots who refuse to come to my neighborhood, one of the safest in the entire nation according to the FBI. They insist it's terribly far away and in the middle of nowhere. It's seven miles north of a well known amusement park on a Interstate Highway within Los Angeles County.

This ignores that their neighborhood is just as far away for me. Whenever I nibble at the bait and ask where I would have to drive, it's always some hellhole frequently featured on newscasts depicting sidewalk memorials. Yeah, I'm bringing my valuable item there. So many of the residents there are big buyers of audiophile collector's items.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Good luck on collectibles though. I've been trying to find a legit buyer for the same item from my cousin's estate for three years. This is the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Beatles box set. #19xxx of 25,000 made. A genuine rare collector's item.

Every time I put it on Craig's List I get deluged with the stupidest scams. They don't even notice they've approached me numerous times before, as their automation is that lacking. Worse, I get idiots who refuse to come to my neighborhood, one of the safest in the entire nation according to the FBI. They insist it's terribly far away and in the middle of nowhere. It's seven miles north of a well known amusement park on a Interstate Highway within Los Angeles County.

This ignores that their neighborhood is just as far away for me. Whenever I nibble at the bait and ask where I would have to drive, it's always some hellhole frequently featured on newscasts depicting sidewalk memorials. Yeah, I'm bringing my valuable item there. So many of the residents there are big buyers of audiophile collector's items.[/QUOTE]
:lol: I've had people ask me to meet them at a mall parking lot at 11pm at night after the mall is closed before. Either that or had people ask me to drive 30-40 miles to some bumblefuck town down the line from me where I don't know my way around to meet them at 8-9pm at night.

I usually reply back asking them what they're smoking and stop responding after that.
 
[quote name='epobirs']Good luck on collectibles though. I've been trying to find a legit buyer for the same item from my cousin's estate for three years. This is the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Beatles box set. #19xxx of 25,000 made. A genuine rare collector's item.

Every time I put it on Craig's List I get deluged with the stupidest scams. They don't even notice they've approached me numerous times before, as their automation is that lacking. Worse, I get idiots who refuse to come to my neighborhood, one of the safest in the entire nation according to the FBI. They insist it's terribly far away and in the middle of nowhere. It's seven miles north of a well known amusement park on a Interstate Highway within Los Angeles County.

This ignores that their neighborhood is just as far away for me. Whenever I nibble at the bait and ask where I would have to drive, it's always some hellhole frequently featured on newscasts depicting sidewalk memorials. Yeah, I'm bringing my valuable item there. So many of the residents there are big buyers of audiophile collector's items.[/QUOTE]

If the buyer really wants the item, they will come to you, especially with a genuine collector's item. If they have the money to buy it they should have the money for some form of transportation to get the item.

From what I see here the collectibles market is in the toilet right now for most things that people have been collecting and now want to get rid of because they realize its nothing but a bunch of stuff that is sitting around. Sports collectibles, action figures, figurines etc.. Everyone trying to sell for full market value, no one wanting to buy at the asking prices, no one wanting to budge on prices. I wouldn't be using CL for this, but if you live in CA you likely have a much better chance than around here.
 
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