Arizona Congresswoman Giffords (D-AZ) Shot During Public Event

[quote name='rumblebear']
Even mainstream media agrees that Sarah Palin was responsible for the whole thing. I hope the Giffords family will have success when they sue the hell out of Sarah Palin for mass murder.[/QUOTE]
That just happened.
Keep it coming man.
 
Wouldn't this be a great time for everyone, left and right, to acknowledge that violent political rhetoric is at best tasteless and at worst can actually incite violence? And maybe disassociate ourselves from any politician or political commentator who uses violent rhetoric?

BTW - I just read that one of Palin's aides is claiming that they never meant for the crosshairs on their map to look like gun sights. I wonder what Palin really meant when she told her supporters to "reload" in a tweet referencing that map? Seriously, how can anyone defend these people?
 
Heartbreaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO7i6HHW-VA
[quote name='IRHari']Really? Cause this kinda contradicts that:[/QUOTE]
Seriously? I'm just pointing out that this guy's mindset was known almost as soon as his name got out. But I didn't point it out yesterday. The only reason I'm doing it now is because it's a little more than ridiculous that people on the left are still trying to re-write history and make this guy a TP/GB/SP devotee. No contradiction at all. I still think he's an isolated whacko but if people want to make connections, the evidence goes in the other direction. SO it's better for the lefties if they just stop.
 
If this subject wasn't so goddamn serious it would be almost hilarious watching right wingers freak out at the suggestion they should tone down the violent rhetoric.

I have given an actual example (and Angle was far,far from the only one) and there have been other incidences fueled by what is basically right wing hate speech.

Anyone who says (what passes for) the main stream right in this country in general and the Tea Party in particular doesn't use violent imagery and what is basically a war mentality against their perceived enemies is a liar or pathetically unaware of reality.

See chiwii's "reload" example.
 
MorPhiend: I think he's an isolated wacko not associated with either side. I think connecting him with any side is deplorable, we shouldn't politicize this.
That being said the guy was a progressive communist socialist.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']First it was the Ft. Hood shootings. Then it was Joseph Andrew Stack. Then it was the Times Square bomber. Now it's Jared Lee Loughner. Every time it's blamed on the Tea Party and/or Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. Now the info is coming out that this guy was a demented, committed leftist socialist like Stack. The guy hates religion, loves pot, loves the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf... Does this sound like a Glenn Beck fan or an Olberman fan? Speaking of which, I don't know if you saw it RAM, but Olberman already blamed Glenn Beck yesterday afternoon. I mean, I think the blame game is lame. The guy is a whacko. But if we're gonna do it people, let's look at the facts.

You wanna call GB an SP and Fox News complicit? Let's see what the Daily Kos had to say about Gabrielle Giffords: http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-c...two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

Not only did they have a hit piece on her a few days ago (that has been scrubbed from the web - screen grabs ftw) saying she is "dead to me", but last year in the primaries, they had a bullseye on Giffords to be taken out. So stop all this "right-wing rhetoric" bs.

I was happy to say that the guy was a nutjob not associated to any sane "side", despite that early in the afternoon yesterday his leftist loving mindset was exposed. But if you whack-jobs in here want to keep screaming that Beck and the TP are to blame, let's just look at the facts. Again, look at who the guy idolizes and look at some the the progressive/socialists I named earlier. They are the ones calling for blood and violence, not the TP.

EDIT: You want violent rhetoric?
"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Obama 6/14/08
"I want you to argue with them and get in their face." Obama 9/17/08

The agenda has been there the whole time.[/QUOTE]You don't understand what a figure of speech is, do you?

And if you think "get in their face" is some sort of call to violence I guess you've never been in an actual fight before. It's not that I think this guy is some right wing psycho, it's that you're trying to show how no one could be, because no one like Beck is actually creating an environment that fosters them.
 
[quote name='Clak']You don't understand what a figure of speech is, do you?
[/QUOTE]
This doesn't seem to cut both ways; Far be it from me to say there's a double standard.
 
So I assume no one objects that we need to listen to Jon Stewart and 'take it down a notch America'? Both sides right? Violent rhetoric no matter who says it is bad right?
 
[quote name='MorPhiend'] Now the info is coming out that this guy was a demented, committed leftist socialist like Stack. The guy hates religion, loves pot, loves the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf... Does this sound like a Glenn Beck fan or an Olberman fan? [/QUOTE]

He was also obsessed with the gold standard and mind control. Sounds like a "libertarian" to me. Isn't that what Beck claims to be?

[quote name='chiwii']BTW - I just read that one of Palin's aides is claiming that they never meant for the crosshairs on their map to look like gun sights. I wonder what Palin really meant when she told her supporters to "reload" in a tweet referencing that map? Seriously, how can anyone defend these people?[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of a great post I read on another forum

on Sarah Palin's crosshairs list]Give her a break though said:
As much as certain people want to say this is the lone act of a crazy person, it says something when domestic terrorism starts flaring up when a democrat is president.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']This doesn't seem to cut both ways; Far be it from me to say there's a double standard.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! Getting in someone's face is the EXACT SAME THING as second amendment solutions!
images
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Yes, rhetoric has it's consequences. Even more so when there's a right wing nutjob behind steel sights. After all, it's republican rhetoric that makes right-wing people commit crazy, murderous acts, and they're just acting out the intentions that all conservatives feel. Funny that when leftists accidentally go off the deep end, it's an isolated, insane, idiot and has no ties to any other leftist associations.

It will be interesting to see how fast this topic is ignored by the left when it's found out that this ignoramous was one of their own and a communist nutjob. Hell, even CNN reported his love for the Communist Manifesto, which is one of their own founding documents. Then they went on to describe the lax gun laws in Arizona as a contributing factor that made him do this. Gotta love the Communist News Network.

He probably went off the deep end when republicans took back the house and ended the second coming of the progressive era. I'm sure taking out a republican rep was his only option in that crazy, brainwashed head of his. Yep, communist rhetoric never makes people insane enough to do things like this, therefore he must have just been an unstable individual. Ah, if only we could find a reason to silence all those right-wingers, we'd finally achive balance and true happiness - besides shooting them, I mean.[/QUOTE]


Typical Palin supporter trying to lie for her. The obvious fact remains that the killer is a right wing racist teabagger/Palin zealot who carried out Palin's hit list. All the mainstream media agrees and validated this fact. How can you sick people defend her? Sarah Palin is a despicable, despicable women.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']He was also obsessed with the gold standard and mind control. Sounds like a "libertarian" to me. Isn't that what Beck claims to be?[/QUOTE]

Trying to pin this on a single person, group or party's motivations isn't going to get you anywhere but lost. Some people just can't seem to accept that being crazy knows no political boundaries.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Exactly! Getting in someone's face is the EXACT SAME THING as second amendment solutions!
images
[/QUOTE]
I was actually referring more to the boot-heels on neck, gun to knife-fight . . .etc. rhetoric.
 
[quote name='chiwii']
BTW - I just read that one of Palin's aides is claiming that they never meant for the crosshairs on their map to look like gun sights. I wonder what Palin really meant when she told her supporters to "reload" in a tweet referencing that map? Seriously, how can anyone defend these people?[/QUOTE]

It's a list of people Sarah Palin wants killed. Stupid Sarah thinks she can cover her tracks. Let's all prey for the rest of the people on her hit list that they will survival her hit squads.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']This doesn't seem to cut both ways; Far be it from me to say there's a double standard.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you're referring to, but there is no way that "get in their face" is equal to "2nd amendment remedies". If you think so, then I don't know what to tell you.

edit- The gun and knife metaphor still doesn't apply. He's saying that if they attack (figuratively) to attack back stronger. Even taken at face value without any understanding of the meaning, he's saying bring a weapon to a fight against other people with weapons.

edit2- Are you referring to the boot on the neck of BP comment? You're comparing that to some of the shit that's already been mentioned? He was talking about putting pressure on a company for crying out loud.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Trying to pin this on a single person, group or party's motivations isn't going to get you anywhere but lost. Some people just can't seem to accept that being crazy knows no political boundaries.[/QUOTE]

Just trying to not let that comment stand uncontested. Misinformation like that has the means to become "fact" to alot of people if it is repeated enough without being contested.

Also

[quote name='Sporadic']As much as certain people want to say this is the lone act of a crazy person, it says something when domestic terrorism starts flaring up when a democrat is president.[/QUOTE]
 
just curious if I'm the only one that thinks rumblebear is either a really bad troll or seriously needs phychiatric help?
 
[quote name='Afflicted']just curious if I'm the only one that thinks rumblebear is either a really bad troll or seriously needs phychiatric help?[/QUOTE]

Its a fine line, most easily combated by the use of the "ignore" button.
 
[quote name='Afflicted']just curious if I'm the only one that thinks rumblebear is either a really bad troll or seriously needs phychiatric help?[/QUOTE]

it's the first one

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8012474#post8012474

[quote name='IRHari']lol, dude why are you quoting yourself to back up your own argument?[/QUOTE]

lazy, taking a more copy-and-paste approach to this forum since most of what i write gets ignored or skipped over anyways
 
[quote name='Clak']
edit- The gun and knife metaphor still doesn't apply. He's saying that if they attack (figuratively) to attack back stronger. Even taken at face value without any understanding of the meaning, he's saying bring a weapon to a fight against other people with weapons.
[/QUOTE]
I thought we were talking about reading between the lines vis-à-vis violent rhetoric . . . now we are talking literal meanings vs figurative?
 
[quote name='IRHari']So I assume no one objects that we need to listen to Jon Stewart and 'take it down a notch America'? Both sides right? Violent rhetoric no matter who says it is bad right?[/QUOTE]

Exactly.
[quote name='Sporadic']He was also obsessed with the gold standard and mind control. Sounds like a "libertarian" to me. Isn't that what Beck claims to be?



Reminds me of a great post I read on another forum



As much as certain people want to say this is the lone act of a crazy person, it says something when domestic terrorism starts flaring up when a democrat is president.[/QUOTE]

George Soros bailed on stocks and bought up as much gold as he could long ago. And WTH does mind control have to do with libertarianism? Try again. Or better yet, don't. You're embarrassing yourself... Or at least you should be embarrassed...
[quote name='dohdough']Exactly! Getting in someone's face is the EXACT SAME THING as second amendment solutions![/QUOTE]


[quote name='h3llbring3r']I was actually referring more to the boot-heels on neck, gun to knife-fight . . .etc. rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

Again, Exactly. But typical lefty bomb thrower. Sees two pieces of evidence against his cause before him. Picks the more benign fact to explain away and ignores the more damning one altogether.

EDIT:
[quote name='h3llbring3r']I thought we were talking about reading between the lines vis-à-vis violent rhetoric . . . now we are talking literal meanings vs figurative?[/QUOTE]

It's easier when reality means whatever you want it to mean at the moment...
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']I thought we were talking about reading between the lines vis-à-vis violent rhetoric . . . now we are talking literal meanings vs figurative?[/QUOTE]

It's easier when reality means whatever you want it to mean at the moment...
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Just trying to not let that comment stand uncontested. Misinformation like that has the means to become "fact" to alot of people if it is repeated enough without being contested.

Also[/QUOTE]

Forget the D.C. Sniper shootings?
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']First it was the Ft. Hood shootings. Then it was Joseph Andrew Stack. Then it was the Times Square bomber. Now it's Jared Lee Loughner. Every time it's blamed on the Tea Party and/or Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. Now the info is coming out that this guy was a demented, committed leftist socialist like Stack. The guy hates religion, loves pot, loves the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf... Does this sound like a Glenn Beck fan or an Olberman fan? Speaking of which, I don't know if you saw it RAM, but Olberman already blamed Glenn Beck yesterday afternoon. I mean, I think the blame game is lame. The guy is a whacko. But if we're gonna do it people, let's look at the facts.

You wanna call GB an SP and Fox News complicit? Let's see what the Daily Kos had to say about Gabrielle Giffords: http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-c...two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

Not only did they have a hit piece on her a few days ago (that has been scrubbed from the web - screen grabs ftw) saying she is "dead to me", but last year in the primaries, they had a bullseye on Giffords to be taken out. So stop all this "right-wing rhetoric" bs.

I was happy to say that the guy was a nutjob not associated to any sane "side", despite that early in the afternoon yesterday his leftist loving mindset was exposed. But if you whack-jobs in here want to keep screaming that Beck and the TP are to blame, let's just look at the facts. Again, look at who the guy idolizes and look at some the the progressive/socialists I named earlier. They are the ones calling for blood and violence, not the TP.

EDIT: You want violent rhetoric?
"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Obama 6/14/08
"I want you to argue with them and get in their face." Obama 9/17/08

The agenda has been there the whole time.[/QUOTE]
What agenda? You mean the ressurected Republican agenda from the 90's that's now being labeled as SOCIALEST and COMMIENEST? Gimme a freaking break.

Did you even read the screencaps? "Dead to me" and "dead last" does not mean that she's going to "be dead BY ME" or "I'M GOING TO KILL HER SO SHE CAN'T WIN THE ELECTION." Are you going to tell me that anti-war protesters are really PRO-WAR? You're a moran.

moran.jpg
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']Again, Exactly. But typical lefty bomb thrower. Sees two pieces of evidence against his cause before him. Picks the more benign fact to explain away and ignores the more damning one altogether.[/QUOTE]

Ok Mr. Super Smart Guy. How about you give context to all of those examples since you're so familiar with them if you say that I lack context.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']I thought we were talking about reading between the lines vis-à-vis violent rhetoric . . . now we are talking literal meanings vs figurative?[/QUOTE]
I was talking about reading between the lines in regards to the shit Glen Beck says. I don't think that any reading between the lines is necessary with something like "2nd amendment remedies", that can't mean much more than what it sounds like.

Now if you do want to apply that reading between the lines to the rest of the stuff, what hidden meaning can you infer from something like the boot heel on the neck of BP line? It's just more of a stretch is what I'm saying, it takes an even bigger leap of faith to say, connect that comment, to someone who hypothetically tried to attack BP. If he'd said "we need a 2nd amendment approach to this spill" and then someone attacked BP, I wouldn't be defending it. That's practically saying we need to get violent.

People can't be completely responsible for everything that people think they're saying, but the more thinly veiled a comment by someone is, the harder it is to think it didn't at least play a part in something. People simply need to stop with the snarky, thinly veiled comments that get thrown around everyday in politics.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?iref=NS1

In the left column....

CORRECTION
On Saturday, CNN showed a photo of a man in a football stadium believed to be Jared Lee Loughner, who is accused of shooting 18 people at a Tucson, Arizona political event. It was not him. CNN regrets the error.
Click to expand...
Wow. Hell of a mistake to make. I know no one is perfect, but jeez CNN. They didn't even have the decency to put that correction at the top of the story.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']I know this is getting to the fringe side of libertarianism but how about Alex Jones?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=alex+jones+mind+control[/QUOTE]

hahaha... Yeah... "fringe". I believe he's beyond that. The same guy who claims Glenn Beck is a lefty imposter who steals stuff from him. The same guy whose nutty fans try and sabotage GB's website. Yeah... Thanks for the laughs. Oh, and most people use lmgtfy for people too lazy to look something up that's right in front of their nose. You mention mind control and then throw this Alex Jones moron in you lmgtfy. Classy. Sorry, but I don't follow the dude. He probably has fewer followers/fans than the PMSNBC douche Ed Schultz.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']hahaha... Yeah... "fringe". I believe he's beyond that. The same guy who claims Glenn Beck is a lefty imposter who steals stuff from him. The same guy whose nutty fans try and sabotage GB's website. Yeah... Thanks for the laughs. Oh, and most people use lmgtfy for people too lazy to look something up that's right in front of their nose. You mention mind control and then throw this Alex Jones moron in you lmgtfy. Classy. Sorry, but I don't follow the dude. He probably has fewer followers/fans than the PMSNBC douche Ed Schultz.[/QUOTE]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=and+what?+george+soros+is+my+god+or+something?
 
I think it's safe to say that this is politically motivated since, you know, he specifically went after a POLITICIAN. I highly doubt this guy decided to go on a shooting spree at a grocery store coincidentally on the day that Giffords was set to be there. To say otherwise is just willful ignorance.

As far as the guy's "liberal" leanings go, well, one of my favorite vloggers already weighted in on that aspect of the incident. He also talks about how it seems Palin is trying to distance herself from this as much as possible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwB3o5L5XY0
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']how is this shooting even remotely conservative vs liberal smut?[/QUOTE]

The contentious nature of border politics, the rhetoric used against her during the campaign cycle, what we know from what her father and the police chief have said, and her identified political party as Democrat all point to this being...a bipartisan, nonpolitically motivated, circumstantial murder attempt?

There aren't too many people on the left trying to say this transcends party lines, but many on the right who are. That's the textbook definition of trying to distance yourself from something.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?iref=NS1

In the left column....

Wow. Hell of a mistake to make. I know no one is perfect, but jeez CNN. They didn't even have the decency to put that correction at the top of the story.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, corrections are always buried where hardly anyone ever sees them. Rush a story out to get more sales and page views. Oh, we got something wrong? Bury the correction at the end of the letters page because, you know, everybody reads the letters page. :roll:
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']:lol:
"'It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out" -George Soros

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...nsiders-himself-some-kind-of-god-1489380.html

Did you say that on purpose?[/QUOTE]

more of a joke (i put my response in lmgtfy) to poke fun at you complaining about my use of it and also to point out the hypocrisy of trying to use george soros as a way to try and legitimize the gold standard to me (a person you think of as a liberal...even though I never even heard of the guy until he became a right-wing talking point/devil) while in the next post hand waving alex jones away
 
Ah, more inane ramblings. rumblebear, the CAG least likely to be taken seriously by anyone, regardless of political persuasion.
 
[quote name='rumblebear']http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x152435


Petition: Indict Sarah Palin for incitement to violence[/QUOTE]

That's gold Jerry! Gold!

Enjoy reading through those comments.

[quote name='neocisco']Ah, more inane ramblings. rumblebear, the CAG least likely to be taken seriously by anyone, regardless of political persuasion.[/QUOTE]

I am not thoroughly convinced that he isn't a neo-con posting/trolling with ironical intentions.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The contentious nature of border politics, the rhetoric used against her during the campaign cycle, what we know from what her father and the police chief have said, and her identified political party as Democrat all point to this being...a bipartisan, nonpolitically motivated, circumstantial murder attempt?

There aren't too many people on the left trying to say this transcends party lines, but many on the right who are. That's the textbook definition of trying to distance yourself from something.[/QUOTE]

Typical Soros Cloward-Piven Alinsky Chicago style tactic.

Sorry I just watched Glenn Beck, I need to get that shit outta my system.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']more of a joke (i put my response in lmgtfy) to poke fun at you complaining about my use of it and also to point out the hypocrisy of trying to use george soros as a way to try and legitimize the gold standard to me (a person you think of as a liberal...even though I never even heard of the guy until he became a right-wing talking point/devil) while in the next post hand waving alex jones away[/QUOTE]

Meh, not hypocrisy at all. You acted like I should think of libertarians being obsessed about mind control because of some crazy and at the same time implied only libertarians like gold. I didn't say anyone should know who George Soros is, all I did was state a fact to show that the biggest socialist and mind controller of them all is more than neck deep in gold.

And I didn't complain about lmgtfy. I found both uses very entertaining. I think you are taking things too personal. And despite your lack of knowledge about "Spooky Dude" (which is fine, most people didn't know about UBL until after 9/11), he has had his fingers in just about every pie out there since at least the 80's and I have been aware of him and he has been a subject of conservative concern since at least the late 90's.
[quote name='h3llbring3r']That's gold Jerry! Gold!

Enjoy reading through those comments.



I am not thoroughly convinced that he isn't a neo-con posting/trolling with ironical intentions.[/QUOTE]

Once in a while his posts are so ridiculous that I have wondered that myself. Either way, it does no one any good whatsoever.
 
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[quote name='Msut77']
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[quote name='Msut77']If this subject wasn't so goddamn serious it would be almost hilarious watching right wingers freak out at the suggestion they should tone down the violent rhetoric.

I have given an actual example (and Angle was far,far from the only one) and there have been other incidences fueled by what is basically right wing hate speech.

Anyone who says (what passes for) the main stream right in this country in general and the Tea Party in particular doesn't use violent imagery and what is basically a war mentality against their perceived enemies is a liar or pathetically unaware of reality.

See chiwii's "reload" example.[/QUOTE]

Angle was referencing Kennedy's "those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable," but is clearly a couple cards short of a full deck. Tarkanian would have breezed past Reid, and there would have been at least two Republican senators from this cycle calling for withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. I have no clue why people thought Angle was a viable candidate.

If anyone has watched Loughner's Youtube videos, you'd know the guy was literally insane. Nobody sane could construct sentences in that fashion.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Angle was referencing Kennedy's "those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable," but is clearly a couple cards short of a full deck. Tarkanian would have breezed past Reid, and there would have been at least two Republican senators from this cycle calling for withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. I have no clue why people thought Angle was a viable candidate.

If anyone has watched Loughner's Youtube videos, you'd know the guy was literally insane. Nobody sane could construct sentences in that fashion.[/QUOTE]

You use the term "construct" very loosely.:lol:
 
They charged him today and it looks like it wasn't a case of some crazy snapping/shooting up the first politician he ran into.

Some of the evidence seized from that located included a letter in a safe, addressed to "Mr. Jared Loughney" at 7741 N. Soledad Avenue, from Congresswoman Giffords, on Congressional stationary, dated August 30, 2007, thanking him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at the Foothills Mall in Tuscon. Also recovered in the safe was an envelope with handwriting on the envelope stating "I planned ahead," and "My assassination," and the name "Giffords," along with what appears to be Loughner's signature.
Click to expand...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/we...rged-with-murder-attempted-assassination.aspx
 
I have a big problem with the coverage so far.

Why does Mein Kampf get lumped in with left wing literature? The shooter read the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf but it makes him a crazy left winger? I own both books as they're polar opposites. If anything, it shows that he didn't know what the hell he believed in and was just trying to read anything that might give him some purpose. It wouldn't surprise me if they found Nietzsche in his collection as well.

It just points to a crazed individual that finally snapped. He wasn't a left wing nutjob or a crazed right wing Tea Partier.

EDIT -- The years of preparation make this dicey. I'm not sure what to think about this guy.
 
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