Bigotry or the truth? PC or doing the right thing?

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NPR terminated the contract of Juan Williams on Wednesday after comments the veteran journalist and news analyst made about Muslims on Fox's "The O'Reilly Factor."

Fox News host Bill O'Reilly stirred up controversy last week on "The View" after making the blanket statement that "Muslims killed us on 9/11," a comment that led to co-hosts Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg walking off the set.

On Monday, O'Reilly asked Williams if there is a "Muslim dilemma" in the United States. The NPR analyst and longtime Fox News contributor agreed with O'Reilly that such a thing exists, and added that "political correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don't address reality."

"I mean, look, Bill, I'm not a bigot," Williams continued. "You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."


Some commentators and a leading Muslim civil rights organization took issue with Williams' comments.


The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan wrote Wednesday morning that Williams' statement about fearing Muslims on planes is an example of bigotry. "What if someone said that they saw a black man walking down the street in classic thug get-up," Sullivan wrote. "Would a white person be a bigot [if] he assumed he was going to mug him?'

The Council for American-Islamic Relations sent out a press release Wednesday afternoon calling on NPR to address the matter. Nihad Awad, the organization's national executive director, called the comments "irresponsible and inflammatory" and said they "should not pass without action by NPR."

They certainly didn't. NPR took action Wednesday night and put out a statement regarding the severing of Williams' contract: "His remarks on 'The O'Reilly Factor' this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR."

Williams often appears on Fox as the liberal counterpart to one of the network's conservative hosts or guests. But some NPR listeners -- an audience certainly more left-leaning than Fox's conservative one -- don't see Williams as an advocate for progressive politics when he appears on the cable news network.

Last year, NPR ombudsman Alicia Shepard wrote that Williams had become a "lightning rod" among NPR's staff and noted many complaints from listeners after an appearance on O'Reilly's show.

Williams had described First Lady Michelle Obama as having a "Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress thing going," a reference to the militant African-American activist. After those comments, NPR executives asked that NPR's logo be removed when he appears on Fox News.

It can be expected that Fox hosts, especially O'Reilly, will have something to say about NPR's decision.

Bernie Goldberg, a Fox News contributor and author of several books on what he describes as liberal media bias, offered his take Thursday morning in an email to The Upshot.

"So Juan Williams is fired for saying something the liberals at NPR find controversial?" Goldberg said. "One more piece of evidence that liberals have forgotten how to be liberal."

Goldberg continued: "These are the kind of people who brag about how open-minded they are -- as long as you agree with them. And here's the dirty little secret: lots and lots of liberals feel the same way Juan does when they get on an airplane. And a lot of those liberals work at NPR. Juan's 'crime' was saying it out loud."

Weekly Standard Editor and Fox contributor Bill Kristol also had some choice words for NPR, which he dubbed "National Politically-correct Radio." Kristol concluded a post about the firing by saying: "NPR -- unfair, unbalanced ... and afraid."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...fires-juan-williams-for-muslim-remarks-on-fox

What do you think?

=========

The way I see it is,

Idiot groups all Muslims together using the classic "i'm not a racist bigot but...*insert horribly racist bigoted thing here*" line
Idiot gets fired from his job
Right tries to make it a party issue and accuse NPR of being PC/firing him for telling the truth. Also tries to line up the left as hypocrites that have the same thoughts they punish others for saying in public.

Maybe it's just me but when I see a Muslim getting on to a plane with me, I don't get nervous at all. Why should I? As far as I know, there has only been 3 incidents in the past ten years with only one success. 9/11, the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber. And two of those were international flights into America.
 
Agreed. As you note, pretty much anytime someone starts a comment with "I'm not a racist/bigot..." they are, and they're saying something after it that is terribly racist/bigoted.

And yes, there's no reason to be afraid of seeing a muslim. That's just as absurd and bigoted as worrying everytime you see a young black main with cornrows on the street.

And what the hell's wrong with wearing religious garb and "identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims." Should people run away carrying their children every time they see a catholic priest in their garb identifying themselves "first and foremost as Catholics" for fear of them being molested? :roll:
 
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[quote name='thrustbucket']I like this game. Can I play?

Christians didn't perpetuate the crusades, extremists did.[/QUOTE]

Are you seriously trying to compare what is happening now to the Crusades?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I like this game. Can I play?

Christians didn't perpetuate the crusades, extremists did.[/QUOTE]

Except church leaders did perpetuate it. Useless comment to trolling post aside:

I think NPR is chickensh** for firing this guy. His comment was stupid, but not nearly as offensive as many of the talking heads still employed by NPR and other major news outlets.

Being scared because there are people in muslim garb on a plane who didn't care enough about Juan's fears to have the common courtesy to wear a Tim McGraw American flag T-shirt instead, makes you an asshat. I'm not sure it inherently makes you a bigot or a racist, just a jerk who finds himself living in a state of fear of an ever looming boogeyman.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I like this game. Can I play?

Christians didn't perpetuate the crusades, extremists did.[/QUOTE]
The Pope is an extemist?

O'Reilly is already fuming I'm sure. Get ready for a new wave of "liberal media bias".
 
Calling NPR biased is ridiculous. NPR regularly reminds it's employees and journalists not to attend political events (even tangentially political like The Daily Show's Rally). They're simply afraid of a news corporation that isn't beholden to corporate money.
 
I hate the idea of firing people for stating their opinions. It's a really shitty rule.

Apparently it's a rule that isn't going away, no matter how much people hate it. Octavia Nasr, Helen Thomas, Rick Sanchez. All fired for stating their opinion.

That said, if we can't get rid of this shitty rule, then apply it equally. Firing Juan Williams makes sense if you're going to defend the firing of the 3 people I mentioned. Or conversely, if you're going to defend Juan Williams right to keep his job, you're going to have to defend the other three for stating their opinion (even if you disagree with the opinion).

I wouldn't have fired any of them, if it were up to me.

Cut off federal funding for NPR??? OH NOES, there goes
 
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The quote was taken out of context. He also later states that he realizes that it was only a few extremists that did it and that he shouldn't have this fear because all Muslims aren't terrorists(paraphrasing). Like in the Rick Sanchez thread, context IS important.
 
dohdough, what do you think of Glenn Greenwald's take on it:

[quote name='Glenn Greenwald']This is important: for those claiming that Juan Williams bravely talked about his fears of Muslims only in order to repudiate those fears, or that his remarks were taken out of context, not even Williams himself claims that. To the contrary: in a statement he released today, he re-affirmed his original comments as NPR understood them, citing 9/11 and the Times Square bomber's comments as justification for viewing Muslims and Terrorism as connected. There's no point in raising excuses for Williams which he himself does not even raise and which, in fact, he negates with his own statement. (And Williams was promptly rewarded today by Roger Ailes with a new $2 million contract to expand his role on Fox; anti-Muslim animus pays).[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Should people run away carrying their children every time they see a catholic priest in their garb identifying themselves "first and foremost as Catholics" for fear of them being molested? :roll:[/QUOTE]

No they should make the kid an altar boy. Anyone knows that the Catholic church would never cover for a serial pedophile time and time and time again. Their record speaks for itself.
 
[quote name='IRHari']dohdough, what do you think of Glenn Greenwald's take on it:[/QUOTE]
Welp...that's what I get for defending him...LOLZ.

If he wants to own what he "said," well, it's on him. I take back what I said in defense and he can go fuck his bigoted self. But I bet he's laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Roger Ailes just put him on the payroll - of course he's not going to take his act in any direction except for the one Ailes wants.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Roger Ailes just put him on the payroll - of course he's not going to take his act in any direction except for the one Ailes wants.[/QUOTE]
Right. And being smployed by Fox News will put more than 2 mil in his bank because the crazy doesn't stop.

This reminds me of how David Frum got fired for critiquing the crazy elements on the right and how Bill Maher thought he was one of "us," but in reality, he was still conservative as fuck cause conservatism is what puts money in his pocket.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I hate the idea of firing people for stating their opinions. It's a really shitty rule.

Apparently it's a rule that isn't going away, no matter how much people hate it. Octavia Nasr, Helen Thomas, Rick Sanchez. All fired for stating their opinion.

That said, if we can't get rid of this shitty rule, then apply it equally. Firing Juan Williams makes sense if you're going to defend the firing of the 3 people I mentioned. Or conversely, if you're going to defend Juan Williams right to keep his job, you're going to have to defend the other three for stating their opinion (even if you disagree with the opinion).

I wouldn't have fired any of them, if it were up to me.

Cut off federal funding for NPR??? OH NOES, there goes
 
Wow, after a couple days of this I am surprised to see how much media attention this is getting. Even liberals are coming out of the woodwork to defend Juan.

It's looking like NPR is in deep trouble now. I don't think their insane CEO will keep her job, and this could end up like a mild version of Acorn, getting public funding cut.
 
Whoopi Goldberg is the best you can do, and you're actually gonna ride that particular story all the way to NPR losing its public funding?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And aren't you ashamed of ACORN, given what we know about O'Keefe and Breitbart now? Is that really a moment you want to repeat?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Don't forget Rush Limbaugh (ESPN), Don Imus, Dr. Laura, Shirley Sherrod, Isaiah Washington (Grey's Anatomy), Dog the Bounty Hunter, Bill Maher so on and so forth

It has really gotten out of hand with the whoops, you said a bad word so now we're gonna make an example out of you to show how much we hate what you said.[/QUOTE]

I agree, stating your opinion should not be grounds for firing. My issue is the double standard. We've got this shitty rule in place, firing people for expressing their opinion. This rule will NEVER go away, it seems, because there will always be interest groups who will be offended by something. If we're going to live with this shitty rule at least apply it equally. If you argued for any of the people listed in this thread to be fired, it makes sense to argue that Williams should be fired as well.
Whoopi Goldberg is the best you can do, and you're actually gonna ride that particular story all the way to NPR losing its public funding?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And aren't you ashamed of ACORN, given what we know about O'Keefe and Breitbart now? Is that really a moment you want to repeat?
Hey, at least we get another chance to see how spineless the Democrats in Congress are. Hey this group accepting taxpayer dollars is doing something I disagree with. DEFUND!

I wonder if Blackwater/Xe/KBR ever did anything offensive. I guess not, since they continue to be contracted by our government.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I agree, stating your opinion should not be grounds for firing. My issue is the double standard. We've got this shitty rule in place, firing people for expressing their opinion. This rule will NEVER go away, it seems, because there will always be interest groups who will be offended by something. If we're going to live with this shitty rule at least apply it equally. If you argued for any of the people listed in this thread to be fired, it makes sense to argue that Williams should be fired as well.
Hey, at least we get another chance to see how spineless the Democrats in Congress are. Hey this group accepting taxpayer dollars is doing something I disagree with. DEFUND!

I wonder if Blackwater/Xe/KBR ever did anything offensive. I guess not, since they continue to be contracted by our government.[/QUOTE]
*sshhhhh*And they wouldn't be a viable/profitable corporation without all of those tax dollars going their way. Welfare queens if you ask me. ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']And aren't you ashamed of ACORN[/QUOTE]
I don't know a single person outside of left lefties that can tell you anything about that other than what was put out in the original story. It happened, it's history, and nothing could possibly be different.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Whoopi Goldberg is the best you can do, and you're actually gonna ride that particular story all the way to NPR losing its public funding?[/quote]

Do a google search for either "Democrat defend juan williams" or "liberal defend juan williams" and get a bit more educated on the subject. It's not my responsibility to keep you up to speed on how liberalS (plural) are defending Juan are a major part of this story, you can do that yourself.

And aren't you ashamed of ACORN, given what we know about O'Keefe and Breitbart now? Is that really a moment you want to repeat?

Well that would be assuming I have a horse in this race or I give a shit either way*.

I'd just assume this type of government funding for the vast majority of this type of shit went away almost entirely. It's utterly laughable that any politician can discuss the possible need to raise taxes while this type of hand-out persists.

*
I don't.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I wonder if Blackwater/Xe/KBR ever did anything offensive. I guess not, since they continue to be contracted by our government.[/QUOTE]

That's an apples to oranges comparison. Everybody knows NPR contracts don't prohibit you from suing them if you're gang-raped by the cast of "Car Talk."

Blackwater knew better than that.

thrust, if you want to bring up ACORN as an example, be prepared to explain how that example makes sense, given how they were set up, edited, and lied about to be made to look corrupt. You have no shame if you don't find it sickening that Breitbart and O'Keefe remain able to do what they do, and ACORN is virtually nonexistent. It demonstrates that you are a person who cares about ends more than means - even when illegal or unconstitutional. You're shameful.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Juan Williams accuses Juan Williams of racism:



https://www.msu.edu/course/psy/442/cialec4.htm[/QUOTE]

I don't think that applies to the recent situation. He never said they were a danger to him, he referred to clothing (cultural, not racial), and he never called for excluding those who dress like that from airplanes or forcing them to sit in another area of the plane (we should use Arabs rather than clothing, but I digress), something necessary for racism to have taken place. At worst, it's prejudice; more likely, he was empathizing with people who may feel that way when seeing passengers in that type of clothing, but instead of condoning it, using it as a teaching opportunity.

That's what I got out of watching the segment live and knowing where Williams comes from, at least.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I wonder if Blackwater/Xe/KBR ever did anything offensive. I guess not, since they continue to be contracted by our government.[/QUOTE]

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

There's this guy there... his name is something-Hussein-something... Anyway, last I remember, he's in charge, like... a commander or something... some kind of chief. He's the one you need to ask about who we give military contracts to.
 
Juan Williams is a prick and a charlatan and I've never much cared for his 'analysis'. And if NPR wants to maintain its stand that anything even tangentially political is taboo, well bully for them. But I'll tell you the truth, when I see someone with a kufi or other 'traditional' garb or a plane, hell yeah they get more than a second glance from me. If that makes you want to label me a racist or bigot, I can live with those labels as I've been called worse by better. What it likely is is silly as if *I* were going to blow up a plane, I'd wear a plain navy blue business suit and tie so as to not draw attention to myself.

Irony of this confession, I own a kufi myself and wear it around the house a bunch. I just think it's comfortable.
 
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']:rofl:[/QUOTE]

lawl, you're probably right that they're not objective. I remember when they sided with the Bush administration and refused to call waterboarding 'torture'. That was lawl.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

There's this guy there... his name is something-Hussein-something... Anyway, last I remember, he's in charge, like... a commander or something... some kind of chief. He's the one you need to ask about who we give military contracts to.[/QUOTE]

Awesome. I don't recall ever saying he didn't share responsibility for that, along with Congress. Nice try though.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Awesome. I don't recall ever saying he didn't share responsibility for that, along with Congress. Nice try though.[/QUOTE]

Didn't say you did or didn't. Just making sure you're aware of who President Bush Obama is dealing with.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Didn't say you did or didn't. Just making sure you're aware of who President Bush Obama is dealing with.[/QUOTE]

Oh don't worry I'm aware. I remember this is the guy who said he would filibuster any bill that gives telecom companies retroactive immunity. Guess what happened?
 
[quote name='IRHari']Oh don't worry I'm aware. I remember this is the guy who said he would filibuster any bill that gives telecom companies retroactive immunity. Guess what happened?[/QUOTE]

I think your only option is to not vote this year. That'll show 'em. :D
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']I don't think that applies to the recent situation. He never said they were a danger to him, he referred to clothing (cultural, not racial), and he never called for excluding those who dress like that from airplanes or forcing them to sit in another area of the plane (we should use Arabs rather than clothing, but I digress), something necessary for racism to have taken place. At worst, it's prejudice; more likely, he was empathizing with people who may feel that way when seeing passengers in that type of clothing, but instead of condoning it, using it as a teaching opportunity.

That's what I got out of watching the segment live and knowing where Williams comes from, at least.[/QUOTE]

Why would a person make you feel nervous unless they posed a potential danger to you? In the context of what they were discussing this absolutely seems to be the reason why.

I think you're talking about discrimination (wrt excluding or moving them.)

Juan Williams argued that when the most superficial factors become the reason for determining behavior, that's when common sense becomes racism. Muslim isn't a race, but religious clothing is what he uses to determine if someone is a Muslim.

Eh fuck it. I just thought it was funny that this is a guy who says judging people by outward appearances is racist. And then he goes ahead and does almost exactly that.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Why would a person make you feel nervous unless they posed a potential danger to you? In the context of what they were discussing this absolutely seems to be the reason why.

I think you're talking about discrimination (wrt excluding or moving them.)

Juan Williams argued that when the most superficial factors become the reason for determining behavior, that's when common sense becomes racism. Muslim isn't a race, but religious clothing is what he uses to determine if someone is a Muslim.

Eh fuck it. I just thought it was funny that this is a guy who says judging people by outward appearances is racist. And then he goes ahead and does almost exactly that.[/QUOTE]

I don't totally disagree (discrimination based on race is racism, so in that hypothetical discrimination = racism, to clarify my thoughts there). I agree with your last paragraph, as well.

However, even in that article where he states the "danger" line, he supports using outward appearances to make a judgment as to someone's possible actions:

"As a cabdriver I would apply the same considerations. Discrimination can be used judiciously. I would certainly exclude one class of people: those who struck me as dangerous. Nervous-looking people with bulges under their jackets would not be picked up; nor would those who looked obviously drunk or stoned. It all comes down to a subjective judgment of what dangerous people look like. This does not necessarily entail a racial judgment. Cabdrivers who don't pick up young black men as a rule are making a poorly informed decision. Racism is a lazy man's substitute for using good judgment."

Which is consistent with his speech in this current situation. It's also why I don't feel he was being racist. I got from the original BillO interview that ... well, every time Juan was about to say something, BillO verbally ran over him and started yelling nonsense and continuing the circle jerk over himself that he won't stop perpetuating. Then Mary Kathleen Ham started rambling about Iraq being central to getting moderates to fight against extremists. So he never got to say anything like "in spite of that, you don't go overboard and take their rights away" until much later. Even then, BillO started interrupting during that statement.

I didn't get a feeling of racism or think he was going overboard. It was heavy-handed and not terribly eloquent, though.

If anything, the story coming out of this interview should have been "further proof that Bill O'Reilly is a deranged jackass," instead of Juan Williams getting fired from his other job.
 
They overreacted. It was one man on a poltically charged show saying what he thought. He didnt call them sand $$$$ers, he didnt curse, he wasnt cruelf, he didnt blanket call them all terrorists or do anything out of line. He said what he was thinking in a straight forward manner. But sadly political correctness in this country has turned us all into a bunch of flaming pussies. Were not allowed to say anything that anyone else might find offensive, even if it wasnt in that context or meant to offend anyone. We all have to censor ourselves and be friendly and nice to everyone. Everyone has to candy coat everything we say so its easy to swallow by everyone. Free speech and free thought in this country is only allowed if its something that is popular with the majority of the people and country.

Forcing people to pretend to be tolerant doesnt promote tolerance, it inhibits it. Infact it does the exact opposite of what its supposed to do. Firing him will not change his thoughts, infact it probablly fueld them further.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Agreed. As you note, pretty much anytime someone starts a comment with "I'm not a racist/bigot..." they are, and they're saying something after it that is terribly racist/bigoted.[/QUOTE]

Actually thats not true in 95% of the cases Ive used personally and heard the phrase "Im not racist but......"

Its very depressing when you cant make honest cultural commentary without having to first disavow the assumption that your thoughts are motivated by an irrational hatred towards different levels of skin color. Politically charged censorship only increases resentment and distance between social groups.

But the problem is anti racist people are JUST AS BAD as the racists are. They cause a equal amount of problems, they are just as narrow minded, egotistical, and unlike most racists they feel the need to inject their anti racism into every single conversation they can. Racists and anti racists are the problem. And to anti racists ANYONE who makes a racist comment is automatically outed as a racist even if they really and were making just a observation. Anti racists are the non religious equiviliant of hardcore christian conformists who march about preaching about god and condemning anyone who doesnt conform.
 
[quote name='gargus']Actually thats not true in 95% of the cases Ive used personally and heard the phrase "Im not racist but......"
[/QUOTE]

lol

[quote name='gargus']
Black people today do not deserve anything because of slavery. But most of them want something because they are fucking lazy and stupid, yeah I said it. I mean most humans are but the black in this country have a excuse to bitch and they milk it for everything they can.[/QUOTE]
 
All right, I think anyone with half-a-brain can agree that this guy is retarded. Of course he's going to get a fox news show.

However I do have a question for the liberals. In your opinion, is it morally unjust to think that burkas are insulting and misogynistic?
 
[quote name='sandaz93']http://muslimswearingthings.tumblr.com/page/1

Good Blog.[/QUOTE]

Akon, a true paragon of the Muslim community.

watch


Why he would be included on this blog is baffling.
 
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