Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

[quote name='speedracer']This is a shit storm right now so it's hard to believe anything via the telephone game we're playing. Having said that and grains of salt as appropriate, it has been reported that when the girl on the phone with the young man was interviewed by police, she said that Trayvon was pushed and dropped his phone. She said the cop then corrected her and said that Trayvon did the pushing.

How could she have known who was doing the pushing? Obviously she couldn't know with certainty but that's not the part that should be particularly worrying to anyone. A simple cross examination would bear that out. That a cop felt the need to correct her statement, if true, is motherfucking terrifying.

Just sayin. If true, that's ... horrendous.[/QUOTE]

CNN Headline News keeps belaboring the point that even with Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, there's a First Agressor clause. Meaning, if you're the agressor in a situation you can't shoot someone in self defense.
 
Glenn Beck's website The Blaze published an article saying how despite being an "Overzealous vigilante", Zimmerman did nothing wrong and then proceeds to smear Trayvon Martin over a suspension he had from school.
 
[quote name='62t']
tumblr_m143wtoKei1rpj28zo1_500.jpg
[/QUOTE]

This made my day. Thank you. Fall can't come soon enough.
 
[quote name='DurbanBrown']so if he was really scared, is it still self defense? seems legit to me[/QUOTE]
Zimmerman stalked Martin and more than likely tried to unlawfully detain him. If there's anyone that acted in self defense, it was Martin because he was lawfully in the area and was literally walking home after buying his younger brother some skittles. Zimmerman was the aggressor.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Zimmerman stalked Martin and more than likely tried to unlawfully detain him. If there's anyone that acted in self defense, it was Martin because he was lawfully in the area and was literally walking home after buying his younger brother some skittles. Zimmerman was the aggressor.[/QUOTE]

I was going to say, the guy confronted him, so I'm not sure any self defense law applies. He was the aggressor.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-be-black-in-america-/2012/03/22/gIQAEKr4TS_story.html

Trayvon Martin and dangerous times for black men
By Eugene Robinson, Published: March 22

For every black man in America, from the millionaire in the corner office to the mechanic in the local garage, the Trayvon Martin tragedy is personal. It could have been me or one of my sons. It could have been any of us.

How many George Zimmermans are out there cruising the streets? How many guys with chips on their shoulders and itchy fingers on the triggers of loaded handguns? How many self-imagined guardians of the peace who say the words “black male” with a sneer?

We don’t yet know every detail of the encounter between Martin and Zimmerman in Sanford, Fla., that ended with an unarmed 17-year-old high school student being shot dead. But we know enough to conclude that this is an old, familiar story.

We know from tapes of Zimmerman’s 911 call that he initiated the encounter, having decided that Martin’s presence in the neighborhood was suspicious. We know that when Zimmerman told the 911 operator that he was following Martin, the operator responded, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that.” We know that Zimmerman kept following Martin anyway.

“This guy looks like he is up to no good,” Zimmerman said on the 911 tape.

Please tell me, what would be the innocent way to walk down the street with an iced tea and some Skittles? Hint: For black men, that’s a trick question.

Some commentators have sought to liken Martin’s killing to the 1955 murder of Emmett Till, an unspeakable crime that helped galvanize the civil rights movement. To make a facile comparison is a disservice to history — and to the memory of both young men. It is ridiculous to imply that nothing has changed.

When Till was killed in Mississippi at 14 — accused of flirting with a white woman — this was a different country. State-sanctioned terrorism and assassination were official policy throughout the South. Today, the laws and institutions that enforced Jim Crow repression have long since been dismantled. Mississippi, of all places, has more black elected officials than any other state. An African American family lives in the White House.

Black America was never a monolith, but over the past five decades it has become much more diverse — economically, socially, culturally. If you stood on a street corner and chose five black men at random, you might meet a doctor who lives in the high-priced suburbs, an immigrant from Ethiopia who drives a cab, a young aspiring filmmaker with flowing dreadlocks, an unemployed dropout trying to hustle his next meal and a midlevel government worker struggling to put his kids through college.

Those men would have nothing in common, really, except one thing: For each of them, walking down the wrong street at the wrong time could be a fatal mistake.

I hear from people who contend that racism no longer exists in this country. I tell them I wish they were right.

Does it matter that Zimmerman is himself a member of a minority group — he is Hispanic — or that his family says he has black friends? Not in the least. The issue isn’t Zimmerman’s race or ethnicity; it’s the hair-trigger assumption he made that “black male” equals “up to no good.”

This is one thing that hasn’t changed in all the eventful years since Emmett Till’s mutilated body was laid to rest. It is instructive to note that Till grew up in Chicago and just happened to be in Mississippi visiting relatives. Young black men who were born and raised in the South knew where the red lines were drawn, understood the unwritten code of behavior that made the difference between survival and mortal danger. Till didn’t.

Today, young black men grow up in a society where racism is no longer deemed acceptable. Many live in integrated neighborhoods, attend integrated schools, have interracial relationships. They wonder why their parents prattle on so tediously about race, warning about this or that or the other, when their own youthful experience tells them that race doesn’t matter.

What could happen on the way home from the store with some Skittles and an iced tea?

Whether Zimmerman can or should be prosecuted, given Florida’s “stand your ground” law providing broad latitude to claim self-defense, is an important question. But the tragic and essential thing, for me, is the bull’s-eye that black men wear throughout their lives — and the vital imperative to never, ever, be caught on the wrong street at the wrong time.
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The reactions aren't mutually exclusive.

If the racist criminalblackman stereotype didn't still exist, then shit like this wouldn't happen as people wouldn't see a black kid walking on a certain street and think he was suspicious.
 
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Right, there's two conversations going on in the public sphere.

1) is the lenient threshold of 'stand your ground' laws so lenient as to let people literally get away w/ murder?

2) a moment like this reminds us that we are so very, very far from being a post-racial society that some people think we are, or should strive to be. the black = dangerous, or black = criminal stereotypes create fear, risk, and suspicion. and now took a young boy's life.
 
So now that the President has commented on the case, what BS statements are the usual suspects making about what he said? Has Limbaugh weighed in on his defense of Zimmerman yet?
 
[quote name='Clak']So now that the President has commented on the case, what BS statements are the usual suspects making about what he said? Has Limbaugh weighed in on his defense of Zimmerman yet?[/QUOTE]

Don't know about Limbaugh, but GERALDO has!

Apparently, the hoodie is just as much to blame for the death of this kid according to him...
 
On boston.com(the website for Boston's main newspaper) already has comments about Obama pulling the race card. I think I'm going to stay away from reading comments about it from obvious right wingnut sources.

I don't want to spoil who is going to say what by guessing, but it'll probably just be more of the same in this thread.

[quote name='4thHorseman']Don't know about Limbaugh, but GERALDO has!

Apparently, the hoodie is just as much to blame for the death of this kid according to him...[/QUOTE]
Hahahaha...yeah. Who would wear a hoodie with the hood on in the rain...while someone is trying to stalk you in a car in the dark?
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Don't know about Limbaugh, but GERALDO has!

Apparently, the hoodie is just as much to blame for the death of this kid according to him...[/QUOTE]

Guns don't kill people, hoodies do.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Don't know about Limbaugh, but GERALDO has!

Apparently, the hoodie is just as much to blame for the death of this kid according to him...[/QUOTE]
That makes so much sense. That little hussy Red Riding Hood had it coming too.:lol::roll:
 
[quote name='dohdough']On boston.com(the website for Boston's main newspaper) already has comments about Obama pulling the race card. I think I'm going to stay away from reading comments about it from obvious right wingnut sources.[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't like the comment Obama made, and not because I think it's 'pulling the race card' either.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I honestly don't like the comment Obama made, and not because I think it's 'pulling the race card' either.[/QUOTE]

Then why don't you like it?
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think it's one of those 'jump on this for political gain' quotes.[/QUOTE]
If only this was a knowledable answer...sigh
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think it's one of those 'jump on this for political gain' quotes.[/QUOTE]

Btw he was asked about it, he didn't offer it up out of nowhere.
 
Does anyone know why this has gained "national attention"? Apparently there was some huge demonstration in NYC (good thing I didn't go out that day) and the kids parents even attended (they're all from FL btw).

IMO there have been incidents of similar if not greater injustice. Hell what about the Chinese army soldier that killed himself? He's from NYC as well but there weren't any big ass demonstrations.
 
[quote name='Gamer SDP']Does anyone know why this has gained "national attention"? Apparently there was some huge demonstration in NYC (good thing I didn't go out that day) and the kids parents even attended (they're all from FL btw).

IMO there have been incidents of similar if not greater injustice. Hell what about the Chinese army soldier that killed himself? He's from NYC as well but there weren't any big ass demonstrations.[/QUOTE]


You don't know the answer?

It's simple, according to the show Rescue Me "The only thing black people like more than a cookout is a good old-fashioned protest."
 
[quote name='Gamer SDP']Does anyone know why this has gained "national attention"? Apparently there was some huge demonstration in NYC (good thing I didn't go out that day) and the kids parents even attended (they're all from FL btw).

IMO there have been incidents of similar if not greater injustice. Hell what about the Chinese army soldier that killed himself? He's from NYC as well but there weren't any big ass demonstrations.[/QUOTE]

No one is stopping you from protesting, go out there and do something about it.
 
[quote name='Gamer SDP']Does anyone know why this has gained "national attention"? Apparently there was some huge demonstration in NYC (good thing I didn't go out that day) and the kids parents even attended (they're all from FL btw).

IMO there have been incidents of similar if not greater injustice. Hell what about the Chinese army soldier that killed himself? He's from NYC as well but there weren't any big ass demonstrations.[/QUOTE]
A kid was killed while walking down the street after being stalked by the self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch, who lied to the police about what happened with the police stonewalling the investigation. This ranks a little higher on the injustice scale than suicide. The murder happened on 2/28, so its not like it happened overnight.

[quote name='GBAstar']You don't know the answer?

It's simple, according to the show Rescue Me "The only thing black people like more than a cookout is a good old-fashioned protest."[/QUOTE]
Quoting a show to speak for you huh? Racism by proxy indeed...and pathetic.
 
[quote name='dohdough']A kid was killed while walking down the street after being stalked by the self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch, who lied to the police about what happened with the police stonewalling the investigation. This ranks a little higher on the injustice scale than suicide. The murder happened on 2/28, so its not like it happened overnight.


Quoting a show to speak for you huh? Racism by proxy indeed...and pathetic.[/QUOTE]


No dohdough, what is pathetic are the people (and they are out there) who are using this for personal gain.

A boy died; unjustly. That is the primary tragedy. The fact that it appears that the justice system might fail him as well is the secondary tragedy... but just as big of a tragedy is that people want to use this to service their own needs.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']No dohdough, what is pathetic are the people (and they are out there) who are using this for personal gain.

A boy died; unjustly. That is the primary tragedy. The fact that it appears that the justice system might fail him as well is the secondary tragedy... but just as big of a tragedy is that people want to use this to service their own needs.[/QUOTE]
And how many posts did you make in this thread defending Zimmerman? Why don't you be specific about who you're talking about. At least King Broly had the balls to say it eventhough he stopped short so he wouldn't look like an overt racist.
 
I think Zimmerman's a nut who wanted to be the "Big Man on Campus" so to speak. I'm not going to listen to the audio footage either, because I don't want to hear someone getting murdered. It's probably very frightening to listen to and I want nothing apart of it.

So when did I become a racist exactly? I'm pretty sure I missed the memo on that one.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']So when did I become a racist exactly? I'm pretty sure I missed the memo on that one.[/QUOTE]

Are you white?

Because that's when.
 
I could not find a better example of white privilege then the fact that I can go outside wearing a hoodie without even thinking for one second that someone would take it as a sign that I up to no good and be shot on sight.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I think Zimmerman's a nut who wanted to be the "Big Man on Campus" so to speak. I'm not going to listen to the audio footage either, because I don't want to hear someone getting murdered. It's probably very frightening to listen to and I want nothing apart of it.

So when did I become a racist exactly? I'm pretty sure I missed the memo on that one.[/QUOTE]
I'll patiently wait while you make a nuanced post about what you find so distasteful about Obama making comments than isn't related to "pulling the race card."

[quote name='UncleBob']Are you white?

Because that's when.[/QUOTE]
el-oh-el
 
[quote name='Msut77']I could not find a better example of white privilege then the fact that I can go outside wearing a hoodie without even thinking for one second that someone would take it as a sign that I up to no good and be shot on sight.[/QUOTE]
In before the nudnicks can say: What about all the white kids shot by black men that weren't arrested either!!!11!1

*I could've multi-quoted, but somehow it just feels wrong to group you with the other posts.

**I don't care if it looks partisan and/or like a circle jerk.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I'll patiently wait while you make a nuanced post about what you find so distasteful about Obama making comments than isn't related to "pulling the race card."
[/QUOTE]

I don't think he should be trying to score sympathy points over a situation that does not concern him, even though I'm sure some people will try and give him those points when Zimmerman is charged.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't think he should be trying to score sympathy points over a situation that does not concern him, even though I'm sure some people will try and give him those points when Zimmerman is charged.[/QUOTE]
You call THAT nuanced? It's vague nonsense with coded language.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I could not find a better example of white privilege then the fact that I can go outside wearing a hoodie without even thinking for one second that someone would take it as a sign that I up to no good and be shot on sight.[/QUOTE]

Dang someone got shot on sight that was wearing a hoodie? Link to the story please.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Dang someone got shot on sight that was wearing a hoodie? Link to the story please.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! Zimmerman waited almost ten minutes before gunning down Martin. Hyperbole refuted!

On another note, there were rumors about Zimmerman being related to law enforcement or that his father was a lawyer that has ties to the judicial system. Turns out that his father was a magistrate judge.

The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading," his father, a retired magistrate judge, wrote in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. "Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.
Click to expand...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html
 
[quote name='dohdough']A kid was killed while walking down the street after being stalked by the self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch, who lied to the police about what happened with the police stonewalling the investigation.[/QUOTE]
Zimmerman's story has been corroborated by a witness.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

He might be indicted if the grand jury is sympathetic, but I doubt he will be convicted. I hope there are not riots if and when he is acquitted. The rioters will not ask you your feelings on equality and anti-racism before they burn down your store or smash you in the face with a brick. The saving grace is that they destroy their own neighborhoods as usual, but we'll probably be on the hook for rebuilding them.

Still, Zimmerman has been convicted in the press for being a big meanie and following someone (not illegal), questioning someone (not illegal) and possibly being a paranoid racist (not illegal). We have people like Jesse Jackson saying blacks are under attack, groups like the Black Panthers putting a bounty out on Zimmerman, a national news media that is crucifying Zimmerman before the grand jury is even out.

This is not an open and shut case and people have nothing to back up assertions that this football player was chased down and gunned down by fat Zimmerman.

[quote name='Msut77']I could not find a better example of white privilege then the fact that I can go outside wearing a hoodie without even thinking for one second that someone would take it as a sign that I up to no good and be shot on sight.[/QUOTE]
If you attack someone getting back into their vehicle, then yes, they'll be burying you in that hoodie if your victim is armed. "Shot on sight" is a bunch of bullshit. At the very least we know there was a fight and a struggle before the shooting occurred.
 
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Wow. The pure, unfiltered racism in your post is sickening, from using one incident (the Denny beating) to broadbrush an entire race of people 20 years after the fact, to using not-quite-dog-whistle phrases like "they destroy their own neighborhoods as usual."

It's one thing to disagree with the consensus that Zimmerman's shooting was aggravated and not self-defense. But to take it all the way that you have is positively shameful. Exhibiting racist language is not a good way to show that this was not a race-motivated incident.
 
Zimmerman's story has been corroborated by a witness.
Click to expand...

too little too late. Also corroborated is not the word.

Spokkers threadcrapping is tinged with racism and is an attempt to veer things onto things that other random black people do.
 
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[quote name='Spokker']Zimmerman's story has been corroborated by a witness.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 [/QUOTE]
We also have another account involving Martin being on the phone with his girlfriend at the time of the incident, which happens to jive with the other witness accounts about Martin being the one that was screaming for help. I highly doubt the parents of Martin would mistake that final screams of their son for someone else. Or perhaps you haven't heard that they released the 911 tapes? Or maybe you just like being an ignorant fuck.

He might be indicted if the grand jury is sympathetic, but I doubt he will be convicted. I hope there are not riots if and when he is acquitted. The rioters will not ask you your feelings on equality and anti-racism before they burn down your store or smash you in the face with a brick. The saving grace is that they destroy their own neighborhoods as usual, but we'll probably be on the hook for rebuilding them.
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This is funny because Denny is THE go-to poster child for black people beating up a white person, as if that one beating, no matter how unprovoked, somehow makes it worse than literally countless black people that were literally KILLED and BEATEN WITH WEAPONS just for being black BY WHITE PEOPLE no more than 50 years ago.

And you know what? We ALL have a part to play for those communities being as bad as they are. You think that decades of economic discrimination won't have an effect on any community? You think that seemingly innocuous things like property taxes being kept local doesn't keep a poor town poorer and a rich town richer? Or how public transportation is designed to keep "those" people from going into the burbs while at the same time gentrifying communities? You think that the things we say, the people we vote for, the actions we take only effect ourselves? Only children think this way...and only the stupid selfish ones.

Still, Zimmerman has been convicted in the press for being a big meanie and following someone (not illegal), questioning someone (not illegal) and possibly being a paranoid racist (not illegal).
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Neither is walking down a street with a hoodie on with a bag of skittles and a bottle of iced tea. So what's your fucking point. And btw, stalking is illegal. So is attempting to detain someone with force and/or at the point of a weapon.

If you attack someone getting back into their vehicle, then yes, they'll be burying you in that hoodie if your victim is armed. "Shot on sight" is a bunch of bullshit. At he very least we know there was a fight and a struggle.
Click to expand...
Riddle me this: As the self-appointed neighborhood wannabe sheriff that has made 400 calls in the last year or two that spends an inordinate amount of time patrolling the neighborhood, does it make any kind of fucking sense to not know where you are? Especially when the premise of your argument is based on the scenario of Zimmerman turning around to see which street he's on?

You're a real shitbag.

And as for your edit, Jesse Jackson isn't wrong and there is no group "like" the Black Panthers, but the actual New Black Panthers, that have nothing to do with the original Black Panthers, who placed the bounty and more of a publicity stunt to begin with. The fact that they said that they were going to have $1 million collected by the end of next week should clue you in to that. Not that you know anything about the original Black Panthers anyways because you couldn't ass yourself into learning more about the things you bitch about.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']And how many posts did you make in this thread defending Zimmerman? Why don't you be specific about who you're talking about. At least King Broly had the balls to say it eventhough he stopped short so he wouldn't look like an overt racist.

And as for your edit, Jesse Jackson isn't wrong and there is no group "like" the Black Panthers, but the actual New Black Panthers, that have nothing to do with the original Black Panthers, who placed the bounty and more of a publicity stunt to begin with. The fact that they said that they were going to have $1 million collected by the end of next week should clue you in to that. Not that you know anything about the original Black Panthers anyways because you couldn't ass yourself into learning more about the things you bitch about.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty easy to tell who is profiting from stirring the pot. Please don't tell me you're blind to that as well.


Below is probably the most neutral and informative article I've read on this topic to date. It's sad that it is from a UK newspaper but I guess in some countries it is more important to focus on facts then secondary issues like race.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-killer-George-Zimmerman-fatal-shooting.html


I like these quotes though:

"Meanwhile, the Rev Al Sharpton said today that activists are planning a ‘wave of civil disobedience.’

Speaking outside of his New York City headquarters today, Rev Sharpton said that it is important to show ‘sustained indignation’ over Martin's death.




And then....


The New Black Panther Party has offered a $10,000 reward for the 'capture' of George Zimmerman.

The group's leader Mikhail Muhammad said the bounty was 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'.

At a rally for slain teenager Trayvon Martin, the Black Panthers called for 10,000 black men to hunt down Zimmerman, Martin's shooter who has not been charged over the killing.

Mr Muhammad said at the gathering in Sanford that his group was planning to apprehend the killer itself.

'If the government won't do the job, we'll do it,' he said.


What century do we live in?

But it's okay for 10,000 Black Men (why do they have to be black men dohdough) to HUNT down George Zimmerman because as you mentioned it's just a "publicity stunt"... just like civil disobediance is a "publicity stunt"...


In Fact this must be the type of "Civil Disobedience" that Sharpton approves of:

Freddie's Fashion Mart

In 1995, a black Pentecostal Church, the United House of Prayer, which owned a retail property on 125th Street, asked Fred Harari, a Jewish tenant who operated Freddie's Fashion Mart, to evict his longtime subtenant, a black-owned record store called The Record Shack. Sharpton led a protest in Harlem against the planned eviction of The Record Shack.[35][36][37] Sharpton told the protesters, "We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business."[38]
On December 8, 1995, Roland J. Smith Jr., one of the protesters, entered Harari's store with a gun and flammable liquid, shot several customers and set the store on fire. The gunman fatally shot himself, and seven store employees died of smoke inhalation.[39][40] Fire Department officials discovered that the store's sprinkler had been shut down, in violation of the local fire code.[41] Sharpton claimed that the perpetrator was an open critic of himself and his nonviolent tactics. Sharpton later expressed regret for making the racial remark, "white interloper," and denied responsibility for inflaming or provoking the violence.
 
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[quote name='Msut77']So you think it is perfectly fine Zimmerman to get off for what he did?[/QUOTE]


No. I do not.


But I think we should wait for all the facts to be presented; not what the Martin party, or Al Sharpton's party or the "New" Black Panthers want us to believe.

Not what the Media wants us to hear or read so that they can sell papers or advertisments

Again this is an issue about an idiot with a gun (Zimmerman) shooting an unarmed kid.

This is an issue about the "stand your ground" law needing to be amended or dissolved.

This is an issue about stricter gun control.


This is NOT an issue that is going to be fixed by Civil Disobedience OR behaving according to the Old Testament (eye for an eye).


Edit:

I think it is important for Zimmerman to be tried but you better believe that unless he is found guilty of 1st Degree Murder (which I do not think he will be) you're going to have a whole lot of upset people.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']But I think we should wait for all the facts to be presented; not what the Martin party, or Al Sharpton's party or the "New" Black Panthers want us to believe.[/quote]

Non answer.

The "other side of the story" was shot dead.

Also you left "suspiciously shoddy police work" off your quasi rant.
 
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