CAGcast #225: PS3 Blood Libel

I certainly don't mind that they all prefer the 360 to PS3, I’m in the same camp. I purchase most of my multiplatform games for the 360 because I prefer the controller. But it really does seem like they go out of their way to remind us how much they prefer the 360 to the ps3, Cheapy being the worst offender by far. I can almost predict now when a 360 positive press release or successful NPD will get extra attention from Cheapy, or a misstep of the other consoles will get highlighted. You can just hear the excitement in his voice. Again, I don’t care that they have a preference, I just don’t need to be reminded of it all the time, it detracts from the conversation.

Shipwreck’s argument for the forthcoming year was convoluted and oddly supported. I don’t know what the search for the elusive system seller was supposed to show. We are already past the window for a system seller in this console life cycle, at least for core titles. Many of the titles mentioned are fairly popular franchises with a history of success, maybe not system selling success, but I don’t really think that’s the correct measure.

I also think you are wrong about the PS3 marketing, campaign with Kevin Butler but just anecdotally. My wife even knows those commercials and she is a complete non-gamer.

I think Sony is suffering right now in sales, because the Kinect has just been better accepted by the mass audience over Move, combined with the increased sales from the 360 redesign. The Kinect and Move are the current “system” sellers, because they are selling to an expanded market. The core audience that will buy a 360/PS3 already purchased them and I don’t think core games are going to significantly expand the amount of those buyers.
 
Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.

Welcome to owning a PS3 though, check out the gamesharing thread. Gamesharing is probably the best thing by far about being a PS3 user; paying 1/5 the price for digital content? Yes please.

Yep, I got Mass Effect 2 on launch day with the Cerberus Network and the 3 packed in DLCs for 12 dollars.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.[/QUOTE]

It's like saying.

MS charges you for Netflix.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.

Welcome to owning a PS3 though, check out the gamesharing thread. Gamesharing is probably the best thing by far about being a PS3 user; paying 1/5 the price for digital content? Yes please.

Yep, I got Mass Effect 2 on launch day with the Cerberus Network and the 3 packed in DLCs for 12 dollars.[/QUOTE]
The gamesharing feature is one of the best features of the PS3, and if I still had one I would have done what you've did with ME2. I had a PS3 for 6 months and started hating how boring it was shortly after finishing Red Dead Redemption.
 
To be fair I don't think the PS3 is for everyone. There's definitely a different style of play to the PS3 exclusives than the Xbox360 ones, probably because there's a different culture at both the first party development/publishing houses and at the licensing process.
 
[quote name='jh6269']Eh, kind of half-half. I'm sure Shipwreck is a nice guy and all, but he's just so opinionated and abrasive on the podcast. I think it's just that I personally don't care for people who can't admit they were wrong or are so closed minded that they can't appreciate a different point of view. I really don't think he adds anything to the CAG Cast; I used to look forward to the CAG Cast every week, but now not so much since Shipwreck joined. Having someone say that the 360 is better for them, or that they prefer it over the PS3, is fine; but this last PS3 "analysis" by him was just so over the top ridiculous, I just had to comment.

He's using NPD and VG Chartz numbers, which are North America (maybe even USA) only. 360 outsold the PS3 like 2 to 1 in the US. However, worldwide, the PS3 is just a few million short of matching 360 total sales; so naturally the numbers are going to skew to the 360 according to NPD. And even if the games aren't selling proportionately, after adjusting for the disproportionate install base, to the 360 titles doesn't mean they're bad games, it just means Sony's failing to make a connection with 360 gamers and new customers (I mentioned the main 2 points why I think this in my last post).

I think the biggest thing that I took offense to is that he pretty much was saying that even though Sony's Flagship titles are "good" (I think they're great btw), that they should give up because the games aren't worth making if they don't outsell Call of Duty. If Sony did everything exactly like the 360, there'd be no reason for another console. Sony's trying to differentiate themselves from the competition, and from what I can tell, the reason for the big number of exclusives is to get people back on the console, and maybe they will realize that XBOX Live, as good as it is, isn't really worth what they thought it was worth. They have an obvious weakness when it comes to the social side of gaming, so they're trying to emphasize their strengths. The problem though is they don't have the marketing to back it up.

The 360 had a price drop and a redesign. They made Kinect a re-branding. Sony could have waited on the Slim and used the Move + Slim + Pricedrop as a re-branding too, and they may have done better in North America. But it's pretty amazing to me that the PS3 was able to dig themselves out of that hole they were in and put themselves practically neck and neck with Microsoft worldwide.

They have a problem connecting to gamers and the bloggers in the US, and that's their main problem.[/QUOTE]

Agreed with everything you had to say.

Shipwreck is the most obvious gamer in the podcast which is why I like hearing him talk about games he likes etc. However his spreadsheet was pretty much fail.

I see Sony coming out victorious in the gen in the long run. 360's are going to be like the many many genesis' you see in swapmeets and garage sales.
 
I am not going to jump in and call names and label any one an Xbot or what ever term that one would associate with having a bias to the 360. Everyone has their preference and mine happens to be with the PS3. The only issue i have is that how narrow sighted when it comes to these consoles sales figures. Hardly is the big picture ever looked at. It's just that one of the host lives in the Country where the ps3 pretty much out sells the 360 by a 10 to 1 margin on a weekly basis, do we consider the PS3 to be a failing or dying console. if we look at the consoles sales numbers for the year(using the same site they got game sales date from, VGCHARTZ.com) the PS3(14.4 million) actually out sold the 360(14.0) in total units world wide. so in reality the two consoles are much more equal footing than people give the PS3 credit for. the only reason why people have this misconception that one really does a whole lot better is due to the fact they only focus on NPD numbers.

as for the whole too many exclusives. thats what drove me and my friends,( i am the odd case where i have more IRL friends that own PS3s than i do 360s) to own PS3s. I can't see how offering more games in various different genres a bad thing. I would love to see MS step up and support their system with more 1st party titles than they do as of now.

you guys have a great 'cast and i plan on listening to more in the future.
 
another thing i don't get is the hate for the XMB, it does everything it's suppose to do and makes sense. most of the time when i ask someone why they would want a new XMB is that the 360 has had a few UI updates..
 
[quote name='Anti Lifesaver']Agreed with everything you had to say.

Shipwreck is the most obvious gamer in the podcast which is why I like hearing him talk about games he likes etc. However his spreadsheet was pretty much fail.

I see Sony coming out victorious in the gen in the long run. 360's are going to be like the many many genesis' you see in swapmeets and garage sales.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't complete fail. Sure he ignored the global picture and lacked the business sense to pull it all together or provide meaningful alternatives, but there were some valid points. The key point that he failed to pull in at the end is that Sony lacks focus and doesn't seem to have a long term plan. Its not a question of whether or not each of those makes sense individually. It is a question of what is Sony's long term plan and how do these games fit into that plan.

If I was Sony I would pull every single dollar out of mass advertising for Kevin Butler, Twisted Metal, Infamous 2, Resistance 3 and Motorstorm 3 I possibly could and I would pump it all into Killzone 3 and Uncharted 3. I would relegate those first five I mentioned to strictly gaming print and online advertising which would deliver 90%+ of the impact at less than half the cost. Hard core gamers get what they want in a diverse library and money isn't wasted trying to sell games to people that have no interest in them.

Sony should be selling a dream of unmatched cinematic realism to the masses. The sooner they replace the "it only does everything" tagline the better off they'll be.
 
[quote name='msdmoney']
I also think you are wrong about the PS3 marketing, campaign with Kevin Butler but just anecdotally. My wife even knows those commercials and she is a complete non-gamer.[/QUOTE]

I think people know about the Kevin Butler commercials, but they don't make you want to run out and buy a PS3. I noticed most of the 360 commercials focus on the games. For example, I saw the Mass Effect 2 commercial at least 3 times in 2010; since I DVR all of my TV, I rarely pay attention to commercials. The ME2 had these awesome looking cutscenes with that green alien with the black eyes. The skin on it looked almost organic. That kind of commercial makes you feel like you HAVE to get that--and it's only available on the 360. See how it works?

In the meantime, Sony's got this sarcastic fake VP that makes you laugh a lot, but it doesn't drive you to do anything but just laugh.

In 2011, they need to get Uncharted 3 and Killzone 3 on the screen and put the name of the title and put "only on PS3" at the end. The games are going to be freaking fantastic--just let the games speak for themselves.

Also, Yakuza 4--it could be another game Sony could hype up. Yakuza 3 was a freaking awesome game and so underrated last year. I already have it pre-ordered. All they need to do is put this trailer on TV--who wouldn't want to play this?
 
[quote name='jkanownik']It wasn't complete fail. Sure he ignored the global picture and lacked the business sense to pull it all together or provide meaningful alternatives, but there were some valid points. The key point that he failed to pull in at the end is that Sony lacks focus and doesn't seem to have a long term plan. Its not a question of whether or not each of those makes sense individually. It is a question of what is Sony's long term plan and how do these games fit into that plan.

If I was Sony I would pull every single dollar out of mass advertising for Kevin Butler, Twisted Metal, Infamous 2, Resistance 3 and Motorstorm 3 I possibly could and I would pump it all into Killzone 3 and Uncharted 3. I would relegate those first five I mentioned to strictly gaming print and online advertising which would deliver 90%+ of the impact at less than half the cost. Hard core gamers get what they want in a diverse library and money isn't wasted trying to sell games to people that have no interest in them.

Sony should be selling a dream of unmatched cinematic realism to the masses. The sooner they replace the "it only does everything" tagline the better off they'll be.[/QUOTE]

A lot of this is what I was trying to ultimately end up at, but I got distracted and lost my train of thought after having touched on a lot of stuff.
 
[quote name='mrnivek'] I also buy movies from time to time to stream and just recently tried to use the Playstation network for a movie. First off the movie was soo choppy that I decided to wait for it to fully download. But by the time it downloaded and I had time to watch it the movie had already expired. I can't believe how slow a paid service is! Never had that problem with Xbox, pay for it, watch it streaming perfectly... I try giving Sony my money but they keep returning a mediocre experience.[/QUOTE]


just gonna point out the movie store on the PSN isn't a streaming option(but they do have VUDU). so trying to watch it while it's downloading isn't the best idea. If you were to try that, if you wait 15 minutes or so then it would be fine to watch while the rest of it loaded up.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.

Welcome to owning a PS3 though, check out the gamesharing thread. Gamesharing is probably the best thing by far about being a PS3 user; paying 1/5 the price for digital content? Yes please.

Yep, I got Mass Effect 2 on launch day with the Cerberus Network and the 3 packed in DLCs for 12 dollars.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean by "console off " downloads?
 
[quote name='Spartan V07']what do you mean by "console off " downloads?[/QUOTE] with PSN+ , you can set your system to "wake up" at any time in the night and it will load any game patches for what ever games you have played. after doing so it will turn it's self back offf
 
[quote name='Broken Cage']I'm jumping in from the front page since I'm at work, but I have to rail against this "Xbox charges you to play online" banter from the PS3 fans. SONY CHARGES YOU TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT YOU PAID FOR WHILE THE PS3 IS OFF. In my opinion, that's more disgusting than paying to play online. At least I'm having fun playing online, having to leave my PS3 on so I can download a bunch of games, then installing them one by one afterwards, is ridiculous.[/quote]
What are you talking about? Automatic download turns the system on during the night to grab updates and maybe the occasional special demo or beta that they have to offer to PS+ people. I don't know where you got the idea that it keeps you from downloading the things you bought until you turn it off. Even then, there's the standby download option that will turn off the system after your downloads are done and installed automatically, but that's not a part of PS+. Contain your rage to things that are actually real.
 
my take on why Epic Mickey sold so well is parents needed something to get their kids for their Wii for Xmas. they figured what kid doesn't like Mickey Mouse. so they picked that game up for them. i am not saying Epic Mickey is a bad game what so ever, just saying with that many Wiis out there. it was a diven that it would sell well over the holidays.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']What are you talking about? Automatic download turns the system on during the night to grab updates and maybe the occasional special demo or beta that they have to offer to PS+ people. I don't know where you got the idea that it keeps you from downloading the things you bought until you turn it off. Even then, there's the standby download option that will turn off the system after your downloads are done and installed automatically, but that's not a part of PS+. Contain your rage to things that are actually real.[/QUOTE]

I think (s)he meant that you have to have PS+ to allow your system to download games when it's off--otherwise you end up waiting for a patch to download right when you're wanting to play a game.
 
Shipwreck easily has the most diverse taste in games of the CAGcast hosts. If anything, the show needs more of that not less.
 
[quote name='jh6269']I think (s)he meant that you have to have PS+ to allow your system to download games when it's off--otherwise you end up waiting for a patch to download right when you're wanting to play a game.[/QUOTE]

The patch downloading only happens on your most played games, it doesnt scan your hdd for games installed and then check them one by one in order. So really if you arent playing a game enough, you'll end up patching it during boot up anyway just like normal since you arent playing it often enough as is. Its a very silly thing to complain about. Also, what other console allows the system to do game updates by itself offline without you there? None? Want to know why? Cause its silly.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Contain your rage to things that are actually real.[/QUOTE]

I hate stuff like this. Simply because my opinion is opposite of yours I am raging? Where did I rage? I called no names, I gave credit to both consoles where I felt it was due, and simply voiced my opinion. So please, spare me the second rate internet stereotypes like "nerd rage" and "butt hurt."

I don't know where you got the idea that it keeps you from downloading the things you bought until you turn it off.
Click to expand...

First, I never said that ANYWHERE in my post. I said that you had to pay to download games while the system was off. IE: Not leave the PS3 running for hours while you download ten game demos. I, obviously, was wrong about this aspect of the service.

However, that only makes it worse. Now I'm not paying extra money to save electricity and the console by being able to turn it off without interrupting long downloads. I'm paying extra money so I don't have to actively turn it on while it downloads updates (which I don't know, but if I had downloads qued, would they continue during the update?) for a select few games that I play REGULARLY (according to blitz6speed), which means there's a good chance they were already updated while I was enroute to playing them anyway.


I'm sorry, man, but you're really not selling me on PS+ over XBL.


Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.
Click to expand...


I fully understand that, but I was limiting my comment to actual services provided for the yearly fee. I understand there are additional demos and free games that you can keep while PS+ is active, but that's outside of the realm of "pay for online play" or "pay for unmanned system updates", which should both arguably be free.
 
If you don't want to be accused of raging, you need to leave Caps Lock turned off while you type.

I do hope you get some enjoyment from the PS3 if you ever play any PS3 games. :)
 
[quote name='Curufinwe']If you don't want to be accused of raging, you need to leave Caps Lock turned off while you type.

I do hope you get some enjoyment from the PS3 if you ever play any PS3 games. :)[/QUOTE]


Right, because using the SHIFT key to emphasize a sentence completely overrides the tone and context of an entire post? What a lazy way to carry on a discussion.

I've played PS3 games, just not on my own PS3, this also isn't my first PSN account. Set up the first with a PSP two and a half years ago. Thanks, though.


Bottom line, by the "Xbox charges you for online" argument, the WII is the better console. Cause it lets you play online for free, and it lets you updated at night for free. So I guess we're done here.
 
[quote name='Broken Cage']Right, because using the SHIFT key to emphasize a sentence completely overrides the tone and context of an entire post? What a lazy way to carry on a discussion.[/QUOTE]

Internet shouting via Caps Lock is what's lazy and FriskyTanuki rightly called you out on it, and on your factual error about having to leave the PS3 on all night.
 
[quote name='Curufinwe']Internet shouting via Caps Lock is what's lazy and FriskyTanuki rightly called you out on it, and on your factual error about having to leave the PS3 on all night.[/QUOTE]


Edit: I just PMed you. No point in arguing in the forums over the validity of Capslock. Is what it is.
 
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[quote name='Fell Open Ian']Shipwreck easily has the most diverse taste in games of the CAGcast hosts. If anything, the show needs more of that not less.[/QUOTE]

True, Ship at least plays PSP, Wii and DS games when Cheapy won't even blow the dust off those consoles.
 
Without question, my favorite CAGcast in the last year. Just when wombat had turned me off with his effort to score the Dragon Age 2 DLC, the three of you guys entered into the spreadsheet discussion.

At a minimum, devoting that much time to Sony underscored the point that you have nothing against that particular company.

Second, hooray for Wombat for noting something I agreed with. Sony should consider copying what's popular. 3rd person actions sells? Well then let's make a good 3rd person action adventure game. You don't need to beat Mass Effect or Fable or Gears on the PS3. You just need to offer the people who want to play that type of game something to buy on your system that is similar and technically sound.

Relating this to Shipwreck's comment about First Person Shooters, Sony should offer an alternative to call of duty as opposed to 7 competing products. You can't beat call of duty, but you don't need to. You only need to get some of those people to buy Killzone to be successful. Don't cannibalize your own sales by baosting 7 FPS's.

Sony's problem is that they think they're smarter than everyone else. Rather than modify their strategy, they refuse to change (as Shipwreck pointed out). The damn bluray player is not going to win you the console war. Stop using that as your marketing cry. Going on and on about the success of the PS2 is not going to sell the PS3. Americans want the next big thing, not a bigger version of the old thing. And that point, (at least to me) is the most fundamental flaw in their way of thinking.



One last comment, from a legal perspective, Splosion man developers could also argue that Capcom's release of a nearly identical product watered down the interest in their product and hurt future sales. So while this would not have taken away from the sales of Splosion man, it certainly could deter people from buying Ms. Splosion man. And this would have nothing to do with confusing the two products as being the same thing.

Once again, great show guys.
 
[quote name='bgame2']Without question, my favorite CAGcast in the last year. Just when wombat had turned me off with his effort to score the Dragon Age 2 DLC, the three of you guys entered into the spreadsheet discussion. [/QUOTE]

That wasn't my point at all, why would try to "score" something that is already free? I just thought the timing was bad. I don't need to complain for free things anymore, also I have a direct contact at Bioware if I really wanted ask for it.
 
Geohot and fail0verflow (f0) are not together, they're two separate parties. f0 used the work Geohot did to get to where they got. Geohot has a pretty big name on his side in David S. Touretzky (Research Professor of Computer Science @ Carnegie Mellon University), which will make for a very interesting court battle if Sony proceeds with it. However Sony also made a pretty big screw up when they donated money to Geohot. As for f0 the majority (if not all of them) aren't American. All this boils down to is that Sony is just trying to put fear in people who are thinking about doing the custom firmware.

The goal of f0 (the ones who release the keys) was never to jailbreak it for piracy use, though they acknowledged their work would make it possible. The bigger problem with the hack is that it is ruining online play for certain games (see CoD: MW2).

Sony is the only one of the big 3 that gets super butt hurt over things like this. 360 and Wii have been jail-broken for quite a while now, you could argue that is what helps sell systems. You could also argue that fighting piracy so vehemently drives people who crack and pirate. If your game is good enough people will buy it.

/edit
It is also worth noting that Geohot is the same person who did the first jailbreak for iPhones, which ultimately lead to a change in the DMCA making it LEGAL to jail break your phone. Anyone who thinks that is a bad thing should probably have their head examined.
 
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[quote name='Wombat']That wasn't my point at all, why would try to "score" something that is already free? I just thought the timing was bad. I don't need to complain for free things anymore, also I have a direct contact at Bioware if I really wanted ask for it.[/QUOTE]


A fair point but sometimes people prefer to provoke someone to offer something rather than ask for it. lol.

As I said though, your points during the spreadsheet discussion were spot-on and well thought out. While this may not sound like a compliment it is certainly meant to be. It is probably the only time I can remember where the three of you had an in depth conversation of that length which stayed on-topic and had active participation by everyone. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

(Edited for Grammar - typed too fast)
 
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[quote name='bredbu']this feels like shipwreck may be a little jealous of all the ps3 exclusives this year ( and only 1 on xbox)[/QUOTE]

I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.
 
[quote name='HatManTC']my take on why Epic Mickey sold so well is parents needed something to get their kids for their Wii for Xmas. they figured what kid doesn't like Mickey Mouse. so they picked that game up for them. i am not saying Epic Mickey is a bad game what so ever, just saying with that many Wiis out there. it was a diven that it would sell well over the holidays.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what happened in my family. Grandma wanted to get a game for my 7 year old son and Epic Mickey seemed like the perfect gift to her. He's played it twice since the holidays and told me that the camera is annoying. Instead he plays Smackdown vs. Raw and Angry Birds on the PS3.
 
[quote name='jkanownik']Sony should be selling a dream of unmatched cinematic realism to the masses. The sooner they replace the "it only does everything" tagline the better off they'll be.[/QUOTE]

Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.
 
[quote name='jh6269']I think (s)he meant that you have to have PS+ to allow your system to download games when it's off--otherwise you end up waiting for a patch to download right when you're wanting to play a game.[/QUOTE]
Which it can't do anyway, as the closest is the system being able to finish downloading and installing games before turning itself off.
[quote name='Broken Cage']I hate stuff like this. Simply because my opinion is opposite of yours I am raging? Where did I rage? I called no names, I gave credit to both consoles where I felt it was due, and simply voiced my opinion. So please, spare me the second rate internet stereotypes like "nerd rage" and "butt hurt."[/quote]
I never said anything about nerd rage or being butt hurt, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS SIGNIFYING THAT YOU ARE SHOUTING SOMETHING LOUDLY SO THAT EVERYBODY SEES YOUR OUTRAGE. Also, I didn't give any kind of opinion at all, just corrected a fact that you were misinformed about.
[quote name='Broken Cage']I First, I never said that ANYWHERE in my post. I said that you had to pay to download games while the system was off. IE: Not leave the PS3 running for hours while you download ten game demos. I, obviously, was wrong about this aspect of the service.

However, that only makes it worse. Now I'm not paying extra money to save electricity and the console by being able to turn it off without interrupting long downloads. I'm paying extra money so I don't have to actively turn it on while it downloads updates (which I don't know, but if I had downloads qued, would they continue during the update?) for a select few games that I play REGULARLY (according to blitz6speed), which means there's a good chance they were already updated while I was enroute to playing them anyway.[/quote]
Let me refresh you on where you said that Sony charges you to download content you paid for while the PS3 is off:
[quote name='You']SONY CHARGES YOU TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT YOU PAID FOR WHILE THE PS3 IS OFF[/QUOTE]
Which is not anywhere close to the truth because the PS3 can't even do this at all, so Sony cannot be charging for a feature it doesn't even have. I don't get how it's worse that they're not charging for that feature.

You're free to set the system to turn off after your downloads finish and install, which is the closest thing to the phantom feature. If you just turn the system off, you can continue the downloads the next time that you turn it on. So if you're concerned about wasting electricity, then just turn it off and continue the downloads when you're going to use the system next.

You can't download two things at once (update + a demo), so it wouldn't download whatever's left unless the system is turning on to grab a demo that Sony pushes out to PS+. You could easily play a game while this extremely large demo is downloading so that it downloads in the background like on XBL, though playing anything online will cause it to stop, like on XBL. Unless I missed something, you don't have PS+ and thus don't really need to worry or get upset about what you're paying for since it's not doing what you thought it did. The Automatic Download feature is just an added bonus to the actual content that they get, though I'd prefer it to be free because it's a really good idea.

[quote name='Broken Cage']I'm sorry, man, but you're really not selling me on PS+ over XBL.[/quote]
I didn't know that my sole reason to be here was to sell you on PS+. I don't care if you want it or not, as I was just correcting a false fact that you were loudly yelling about.
 
[quote name='bgame2']Second, hooray for Wombat for noting something I agreed with. Sony should consider copying what's popular. 3rd person actions sells? Well then let's make a good 3rd person action adventure game. You don't need to beat Mass Effect or Fable or Gears on the PS3. You just need to offer the people who want to play that type of game something to buy on your system that is similar and technically sound.[/QUOTE]

Uncharted?
 
[quote name='msdmoney']Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.[/QUOTE]

There are different markets and a difference between mass (e.g. Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto) and casual (e.g. Wii Sports/Mario).

I wasn't talking about the casual market. I was talking about the fact that Gears of War 2 sold 50% better than Uncharted 2 in the US. Or that Red Dead on 360 crushed the PS3 version in the US. Or that Heavy Rain didn't have a cinematic trailer run on TV or in theaters in the US.
 
[quote name='kingkiller33']True, Ship at least plays PSP, Wii and DS games when Cheapy won't even blow the dust off those consoles.[/QUOTE]

Yet Ship can't tell that Socom and Call of Duty are two totally different games for different types of markets.

The more I think about how completely ridiculous this entire episode was, the more I think that this episode could be the CAGCast's "jump the shark" moment. :)
 
I think Microsoft exclusives are pretty much always going to sell better in the US than Sony exclusives on the whole because Microsoft exclusives are developed from a US viewpoint whereas Sony's tend to be more European, Global, or Japanese. No amount of marketing is gonna change that.

Sony really has the best long-term strategy if they can keep an edge in European and Japanese markets, because America is going to continue to lose its economic edge, and as other markets grow, they'll be more prevalent worldwide. They're trending the right direction.

Microsoft however... They're still catering too heavily to the NA crowd. As cliche as it is to say, they need to diversify their portfolio. I suppose they tried with Alan Wake, but we saw how well Xbox360 fans supported that venture.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.[/QUOTE]

im just saying as im listening to your speech it reminds me of times when my friends would get a cooler toy than i had and i would try to justify why mine was still better. I actually have not really read any of the other comments i was referring to the podcast while listening to it.

Dont get me wrong i really like you and cheapy and wombat and i love the show. Im just saying it felt a little bit defensive/jealous
 
You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Which it can't do anyway, as the closest is the system being able to finish downloading and installing games before turning itself off.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure PlayStation Plus does not automatically download patches for you? I'm reading the PlayStation website and it claims that it does:

We know your time is worth a lot. So why not enjoy having patches, select demos and other cool content pushed to your PS3™ system? We've also made it way easier for PlayStation® Plus users to get their firmware updates.
Click to expand...
Source

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought that the 360 automatically downloads patches too, and what the other person is saying is that you must have PlayStation Plus to get that functionality.

I really don't know, since I don't have PS Plus or a 360.
 
[quote name='cplater']You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.[/QUOTE]

what's your definition of a blockbuster??

there about 10 AAA(metacritic average) games exclusive to the PS3 and same goes for the 360. so going buy AAA status alone both systems are very even.
 
[quote name='cplater']You guys are spot on when it comes to the PS3. Sony has everything to loose this generation. It's not that there's no good games for the PS3, it's just that there are few AAA / blockbuster exclusives. Sony is seriously fumbling the ball, and I wish they'd just recover it, and score a touchdown.[/QUOTE]

You mean Gears or Halo? Which is only "OMG" in America which 360 is an American console. I don't even think Japan knows what a Gears of War is.

The broader audience in NA only have room for two consoles; 1. the american created 'Xbox' 2. the small cheap family console Nintendo Wii. A hardcore Japanese/European tailored console Playstation is going to have a harder time getting ahead in this country - no matter what "GREAT" exclusives or how they market it out here. And the PS2 did it only because of little competition and the unfamiliar Xbox coming into the market that has yet to prove itself.

But my biggest question:
How the fuck did the Cagcast bring the console wars back? fuck... I haven't taken a console side in 4-5 years.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']You mean Gears or Halo? Which is only "OMG" in America which 360 is an American console. I don't even think Japan knows what a Gears of War is.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying the 360 had more exclusives. Both the 360 and the PS3 have a lot of great multi-platform games between them, as well as their fair share of exclusives. Just like CheapyD, Wombat, and Shipwreck, I too have both console (well, all three,) and I prefer to play the 360. I'm not saying that's the choice for everyone, but it works for me.

I will say that I was surprised at the sales numbers the Shipwreck quoted for Resistance 2. Those were some of the first games that I played on my PS3, and I thought they were really great games.
 
[quote name='cplater']I'm not saying the 360 had more exclusives. Both the 360 and the PS3 have a lot of great multi-platform games between them, as well as their fair share of exclusives. Just like CheapyD, Wombat, and Shipwreck, I too have both console (well, all three,) and I prefer to play the 360. I'm not saying that's the choice for everyone, but it works for me.

I will say that I was surprised at the sales numbers the Shipwreck quoted for Resistance 2. Those were some of the first games that I played on my PS3, and I thought they were really great games.[/QUOTE]

You said their were few Blockbuster exclusives... I don't get what that means.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']You said their were few Blockbuster exclusives... I don't get what that means.[/QUOTE]

Well, of course, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, and I just got caught.

Part of it is that some of the PS3 exclusives (Gran Turismo, Motorstorm to name a few,) don't appeal to me. I have LBP, both Uncharteds, and MGS4 (which was really disappointing to me.,) as well as God of War (Collection and III,) and Resistance (1 & 2.) As far as what's coming for the PS3 in 2011, about the only things I'm looking forward to are LBP2 and Uncharted 3.

I think my real point (and what I believe that the cagcast hosts are saying (not that I'd want to put words in their mouhts,)) is that the 360 is my go to system. I'm not saying that if you had to choose, and you only had the PS3 that you'd be stuck without any games. There are a lot of good titles on both systems.

Like I said in one of my earlier posts, Sony has everything to loose (in mind-share and market-share,) this generation, and it just feels like they are squandering their position (the PS1 and PS2 were leaders in their generation, and the PS3 can be at least tied for the lead in this generation (it certainly does as far as tech goes.) It's a great system, I'd just like to see Sony market it better to grow their market.

An example is the marketing push for Kinect vs. Move. My kids repeated the Kinect tag line so much, we almost had to ban it around our house. As for Move, they have no idea it even exists.

My whole reason for posting is just to let the hosts know that I feel the same way they seem to about this.

As a great man once said "Can't we all just (fucking) get along?"
 
I agree that the Dragon Age 2 limited time bonus is pretty lame on EA's part. Though with EA's project $10 I dont put it past them.

DLC is one thing, content that comes after the game. Heck, I even understand that some content gets cut due to time or technical issues and the team finishes it at a later date and sells it. Cool. With day zero DLC and DLC that is designed in tandem with the game, is off-putting and makes me want to NOT buy the game. When someone says 'hey games are art' I just refer them to this business practice to remind them that the industry is there to make money.

I am even OK with SOME pre-order bonuses like skins and weapons (single player only), but when does it stop? Each store has thier own items and you never know which one is going to be actually usefull in the game. It has become too much of a bother, I usually just end up picking the "wrong" one anyways.

Bleh, I could talk (complain) about this for hours. I do agree with Wombat though.
 
I don't think it's a war, but more of a debate (at least for rational people). Everyone agrees Sony has issues but we're debating on what those issues are (i.e., the games, marketing, strategy, etc.). And of course, certain people will bash one console/company or the other.

I don't care what Sony does to pull themselves out of this mess, but I love the games they're making and I want to see these great games get the attention they deserve.
 
[quote name='jh6269']I don't think it's a war, but more of a debate (at least for rational people). Everyone agrees Sony has issues but we're debating on what those issues are (i.e., the games, marketing, strategy, etc.). And of course, certain people will bash one console/company or the other.

I don't care what Sony does to pull themselves out of this mess, but I love the games they're making and I want to see these great games get the attention they deserve.[/QUOTE]
What's the mess?

If you are talking about being ~4 million sales behind 360 - than Microsoft is in a huge mess being ~33million behind the Wii.
 
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