CAGcast #66: Gettin' Pizaid

CheapyD

CheapyD

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CheapyD reveals yet another ridiculous toy purchase and Wombat asks, "Is more of the same always a bad thing?" In addition, we ride the Hype Wagon, cover the latest industry and game shopping news, answer your questions from the CAGbag, reveal a new contest, and much more!

Sponsored by Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories for the PS2.
Click here for details on our latest contest!

Download - 89 minutes, 41MB

Past CAGcasts

[media]http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast66.mp3[/media]


Show Linkage/Notes:


Intro music: Bad Dudes (NES/Arcade)

Contest winners:
subsidon (crackdown) Aberforth (ds mp3 player)
GenDV138 (Socom 2 PSP) Andy787 (warriors psp)

Eye In The Sky as sung by Wombat
Jessie's Girl as sung by CheapyD

CAG Foreplay: New Releases 3/6/07

Okami creator 'disappointed' by Twilight Princess

RUMOR: Phil Harrison's GDC Keynote speech in full detail

CAGHL
Rumour: Dead Rising Co-op?
Xbox 360 100 Percent Failure Rate
Mizuguchi's Every Extend Extra Extreme announced for XBLA
Ubisoft confirms TMNT XBLA
Microsoft embiggens memory unit, XBLA game size
Xbox Live Hits 6 Million

Best Buy's Secret In-store Website – CAGs Take advantage
50% off Select Blu-ray Movies at Amazon
Famitsu: 1 Year Subscription (52 issues) $390 shipped at Amazon

Sony Blackballs Kotaku

CAGbag

Digg the CAGcast
MySpace
CheapyD's Youtube (Subscribe)

Outro: Dragon's Lair Intro
(Yeah, I know its not really a commercial, but I like it!)



Bonus Video!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJju3FgFkM[/media]
 
It's pretty funny that you mention Rainbow Six as "never changing." Remember how the first Rainbow Six games were? They were similar to the Ghost Recon games where they were closer to tactical shooters.

Also, congrats on finally getting some green to back your show. Though, I will say i'm a little worried that the CAGCast will get too big for its britches. It's like a nice little town that you love to visit all of the sudden being overrun by Walmart and Starbucks. Don't change too much CAGCast, we love you just the way you are!
 
I wanted to comment on Wombat's "more of the same is good in sequels" argument.

This is an interesting idea, but I think that franchises must be examined, for the most part, on a case by case basis.

If I had to generalize the idea, it seems like what matters most is the frequency of the sequels, how much the gameplay changes between each game, and the genre of the franchise.

Take the Zelda franchise, for instance, which has had roughly the same gameplay since Ocarina of Time. However, both of you have mentioned your disappointment in Twilight Princess.

In my opinion, it's fine for a sequel to be more or less an expansion of the ideas and gameplay in the previous title. However, I think that after two or three games (maybe this is why the idea of a trilogy is popular?), the series should be turned on its side and re-envisioned, like RE4. I think that most of the disappointment in Twilight Princess stems from the fact that the series has remained relatively unchanged for two generations, and with the advent of this generation, fans were expecting something truly revolutionary. Instead, most of the changes were underwhelming such as the wolf and horse-riding combat. The game is still better than its predecessors, but it wasn't quite what many fans were hoping for, especially considering how much gaming has changed since OoT.

Of course, some franchises have a more natural line of progression, such as Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Metroid, Elder Scrolls, Mario, etc. Each game feels fresh without radically changing the series. However, with these franchises, the sequels are spread out over a much larger time frame when compared to more modern franchises.
 
Cheapy/Wombat, I agree with the strange lack of non-white characters in games. In addition, the lack of ability to play as a female character is often off-putting to female gamers.

I am a white male, but my wife will often not play a game if that's the only choice she gets. Playing as a black male is Ok with here, though : ) GTA San Andreas is her favorite game.

Wombat's comment on the Red Guard race in Oblivion is dead-on. That amazed me when I was playing it.
 
I listened to the podcast at work so my attention was not undivided but I cannot recall you mentioning God of War 2 (releases next Tuesday 3/13) on the hypewagon. I have been anticipating this one since the moment I finished the first one. Are you guys not looking forward to this one?

I am also pretty excited about Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for the PS3 (release in 2 weeks 3/20). This will be my first purchase since launch and the only game that I have been looking forward to for the PS3 so far. I know you guys played it on the 360 but I have yet to experience this game and am very excited after hearing you rave about it.

I just figured you would be talking about those two this week.


Ubuntu Linux in 1080p on my Sony HDTV via the PLAYSTATION 3. See the HOWTO.
VISIT PSUbuntu.com and Check out the Forums
 
bout to listen to ep 66, cant wait,

im currently listening to the AGI show from 3-5-07, and Scot is giving Cheapy serious props.

do all the podcasters out there interact with each other, or was that a fluke

 
Funny you guys should mention the Best Buy debacle; I'm actually from CT, and The Hartford Courant is our local paper. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal's got a reputation around here for not taking any crap from anyone, so it was nice to see that he's been taking Best Buy to task. Even better is the fact that the story's getting a lot of national press!

Keep up the great work, guys!
 
[quote name='Ciego']I listened to the podcast at work so my attention was not undivided but I cannot recall you mentioning God of War 2 (releases next Tuesday 3/13) on the hypewagon. I have been anticipating this one since the moment I finished the first one. Are you guys not looking forward to this one?[/quote]

If they removed the balance beam, spinning blades, spinning blade columns, spinning blade log rolling, and buzzsaw blade "puzzles," in GoW 2 then I will be happy to pick it up - when it goes Greatest Hits and sells for $20.

The game will be great, but it is the sort of game that Wombat was talking about. It won't feature much in the way of changes (Icarus Wings will probably be the biggest change), but as long as it is as good as the first, it will be a good game.
 
@Wombat.
You were talking about retaining customers.

I think we agree that many people drop the videogame habit as they age.

If that's happening then pumping out the same games must not be retaining customers. Hence you must offer up new experiences to retain customers.

Yeah R6 will always have an audience of sorts. You'll always have new people playing the game. YOu'll always have some diehard fans that stick with the series for years.

But if you want to retain folks into their 30s, 40s and beyond then you need to do something different and do something that can fit into their schedule.

IT doesn't mean you have to stop making the same old games. But if you're a developer and want to retain customers then you need to release other product as well..... like Ding Chavez in a wheelchair racing thru the eldery ward. :p
 
Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.
 
[quote name='ai.neuromancer']Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]

You are Carol Vorderman, admit it!
 
[quote name='Wombat']You are Carol Vorderman, admit it![/quote]

Though i'm sure she spends a lot of time looking for cheap video games, If i really were her I might be more complimentary about my her Sudoku books, available now from all good stores.

Yours, la'Roc Maronverd
 
[quote name='ai.neuromancer']Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.[/QUOTE]

She was probably too busy trying to think how she was going to break into the American market.

Put out Sudoku game... get on CAGcast... wikipedia hits increase 10 fold... kill Kelly Rippa.

It's starting.
 
CheapyD, and the new host Wombat (no longer the bitterest whiney gamer ever). I have to agree with Wombat that in this Next Gen era of gaming damage to buildings and the environment in general needs to be retained. And that Cheapy’s comment of the place looking like a war zone is not something bad, but is something that should be celebrated. Take Crackdown for example, if gangs were really running rampant through a city and you had these super soldiers running around (especially two of them) there probably would be allot of damage done to the city.

Also wanted to comment you both on your singing, I was impressed. Unless you want a verbal beat down from Simon I would suggest neither of you audition for American Idol, but as a former bartender where Karaoke was the entertainment two nights a week I would say that both you were much better performers then 80% of the people I remember.

I am glad to hear that I was not the only one that got a smile on my face when I saw Elevator Action. It is not one of those games you are ever going to sit down and play all afternoon, but I think it is a game you can play for 10 to 15 minutes then let it sit for a month and play again. In short I think you will get your $5.00 worth out of it.

As for the memory unit, I have one and if you are an achievement whore (like me), it is nice to move your profile onto a MU go over to a friends house and play and keep your profile and earn some achievements.

Nice to see Wombat getting his own little section with the Wombat Burrow. I think more of the same is good, but I think charging full price for more of the same is bad. I do not think I can make it any simpler then that... UbiSoft seems to be in first place here, while EA is coming right in at second place. More of the same is good in the fact that if you have a game formula that works and is something that resonates with fans then you should build on that slightly with every new version of the game. But charging full price for a new version of the game that is only slightly improved is kind of a rip off to gamers. On the XBox 1 I bought Rainbow Six, then got excited for Rainbow Six: Black Arrow and was completely disappointed when it was basically some new maps and one new gun. Not worth $40.00 I paid. And I am not even going to start about EA and the Madden series. I think that Oblivion is handling this the right way in that they released a full new game, then released an expansion pack (but would not necessarily have to be downloadable only, it could be a full disk) at a reduced price. I really think that Rainbow Six, GRAW, and Splinter Cell should follow this pricing model. Release a full new version of the game then next year release an expansion pack or even two then starts over. And if Honestly I can not understand how these game companies can keep crying poverty, and that they are not making any money. They get game sales themselves, then they have downloadable content they can now charge for, and on top of that they can sell ad space inside games. There are so many billboards for Dodge and Intel in Crackdown, and Rainbow Six Vegas is crazy.

This whole thing with Kotaku and Sony I think is the problem with company’s not understanding new media. I think a few years back if a report wrote a story that businesses or politicians did not like they could have the CEO of the company call up the newspaper or magazine editor and if they had enough power and influence they could suppress a story. Now days anyone with internet access and a thimble full of brains can setup a blog and start posting news. And these small bloggers can not be threatened with as easily and can not be tracked down as easily. And really how stupid is Sony threatening to black ball Kotaku one of the biggest gaming blog sites on the internet. Not posting the Sony news right now will hurt them about as much as a grain of rice rolling off of Cheapy’s head and slamming into his foot. Where as if Kotaku refused to publish Sony related news for six months, I think could hurt Sony in getting their message and new products to gamers allot more. Similar to how the associated press did not publish any Paris Hilton news for one week, what a great week that was.

Two giant bald guys in Japan, honestly Cheapy if you ever hook up in Japan with this guy you have to have your wife take some video of you guys out in public and post that on UTube. And if someone can Photoshop together a giant Cheapy destroying Tokyo I will make that my wall paper on my computer.

All these crappy ports from other consoles to the Wii is a little disturbing. I really worry that this may actually hurt the console in the long run. While Nintendo and most first party developers always seem to produce fun games, if the majority are just 360 or PS3 games with the Wiimote functions duct taped on I think it could be the one thing that actually kills the Wii.
 
I love the way Cheapy scolds wombat at 1:21:26.

It's when Wombat says ok while Cheapy started talking....When Wombat replied with "I said OK", it sounded like when a parent scolds their child for mumbling under their breath by saying "What did you just say?!"
 
As for the whole Carol Vorderman thing, honestly I would be more interested in the game if brought to us by "a half naked Mrs. Wombat".
 
Regarding the Carol Vorderman controversy...Is it sad that I am infinitely more interested in the upcoming NY Times crossword puzzle game for the DS than I would be if it was just plain "Crossword Puzzles?" Ms. Vorderman means shit to me, but to Sudoku fans, I'm sure she's the Queen's crumpets.
 
Wombat, are you kidding me? The guy who played Cole Train WAS a former pro football player turned voice actor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Speight

He's also been Terry Tate: Office Linebacker.

Cole Train was awesome. I don't see how you can think he's playing a stereotypical black man. If anything, he's a stereotypical pro football player. He could have easily been a white guy and had the same lines. So really, the only reason he's stereotypically black is because... he's black?

I just found it interesting how the war in Gears has gotten so bad, they've got celebrities/pro athletes serving in the military.

Also, I'm pretty sure during one of the Gears documentaries they mentioned they actually CHANGED Cole Train's character model to match what Lester brought to the table, like increasing the size of his arms to match the authentic voice.
 
Oh the hypocrisy! I am constantly angered by the poor spelling and grammar of most internet dwellers and then I finally make a post worthy of being mentioned in the cagcast and I forgot to check my own grammar! :whistle2:#

In reference to the comments made in the 'Wombat Burrow': I agree, more of the same is definitely OK from a game that has already established itself as great.

GTA3 -> GTA:VC -> GTA: SA is a great example of how a great game/franchise can be established and then tweaked to perfection. BUT GTA4 better be more than 'GTA:SA with more purdy graphics'. That formula is becoming stale (with 5 GTA games and the endless clones) and the series is due for a revolutionary change rather than just more tweaks and a graphical overhaul.

One series that I would just love to see brought back with a complete overhaul: Mega Man. There has to be a way to make a 3D game from this. Fast action 3rd Person Shooter maybe? Metroid thrived in the leap to 3D, Could Mega Man do it too?


Best comment this week from CheapyD: "It's like Sony is retarded."
 
[quote name='futhamucka']I can't believe cheapy has never played worms! WTF?[/QUOTE]

I've had worms, but I've never played Worms.
 
[quote name='futhamucka']I can't believe cheapy has never played worms! WTF?[/quote] I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.
 
Great show this time, good to see Wombat not getting cut off by Cheapy everytime he talks for more than ten seconds.

Congrats on getting some Rockstar $$$ thrown your way. I have faith that you guys won't turn into an IGN or the like who will toss out glowing reviews in exchange for cash, so can see this only as a win for the CAGCast. I breathlessly await the day "Carol Vorderman Sudoku Presents the CAGCast" hits my iPod.
 
Call of Duty 3 for Wii was bad? I played that game and had a great time! Best shooter yet on Wii (of course, that's not saying much).
 
Wow. I got mentioned on the CAGcast... sorta. "Oh yeah, I played my CAGHL game... and lost" lost to who? The Mack! Jagr69! you didn't mention my name *cries* haha.

I will continue to listen to your CAGcasts fo sho now.
 
Well Wombat, I guess I'll be the first to agree with you that Second Sight is a great game. I bought both it and Psi-Ops at the same time, and while the psionic powers were better implemented in Psi-Ops, I had a better experience with Second Sight. It's also a bargain bin priced game right now so anyone who hasn't played it ought to.
 
I think it's great you guys now have a sponsor. It was the right thing to let us know that you were being sponsored to promote GTA: Vice City Stories but it seemed neither of you were comfortable doing so and Wombat was doing it in a tongue-in-cheek way. It seems from the reviews that this game is fine for somebody who enjoys this type of thing and is a good value for the money. I think it would have been fine if you promoted the game by talking about it's good points and I think people understand you are giving your sponsor their due. In short, if you don't over hype a game that is merely okay and are truthful about what you say it's fine to sell out just a little.

Maybe like:

"GTA Vice City Stories, who happens to be sponsoring the cagcast this week, is coming out and from the reviews it seems like it's a somewhat decent pickup for $20. It got a 7 from IGN and it sounds like if you're really into the GTA series or this type of game you'd be getting your money's worth out of it and supporting CAG at the same time."


Because it's supporting cag, is only $20 and is a free roaming game I'll pick this game up at some point soon myself.
 
Yeah, there were no reviews out at the time, but we will talk about it more duing the the upcoming shows since this is a month long promotion.
 
I have to say, if GRAW 2 was released at $40 (even $50) as opposed to $60, I would probably buy it. I enjoyed GRAW 1 quite a bit, but seeing as how GRAW 2 is mostly more of the same, I'd rather spend my time and money elsewhere.

The same goes for RS:V2 - which will probably be announced and then released later this year.

It's almost insulting that these yearly sequels are coming out at $60 a pop. I'm sure that the development costs of GRAW 2 were at least 1/3 less than GRAW 1, so doesn't that justify a $40 price? It seems like many developers and publishers have taken the video game industry to the next level of avarice (greediness).

It is even worse that you have two different franchises (GRAW and RSV), that are very similar in the first place. No GRAW 2 for me until I can get it for $35 or less.
 
[quote name='estat']I have to say, if GRAW 2 was released at $40 (even $50) as opposed to $60, I would probably buy it. I enjoyed GRAW 1 quite a bit, but seeing as how GRAW 2 is mostly more of the same, I'd rather spend my time and money elsewhere.

The same goes for RS:V2 - which will probably be announced and then released later this year.

It's almost insulting that these yearly sequels are coming out at $60 a pop. I'm sure that the development costs of GRAW 2 were at least 1/3 less than GRAW 1, so doesn't that justify a $40 price? It seems like many developers and publishers have taken the video game industry to the next level of avarice (greediness).

It is even worse that you have two different franchises (GRAW and RSV), that are very similar in the first place. No GRAW 2 for me until I can get it for $35 or less.[/QUOTE]

Yeah exactly. Even then I don't know if I would buy it. I need to recharge between 'sequels.' And I just don't want to encourage developers to be like the consumer electronics industry and give us yearly slightly updated games. Make a great game every 2 or 3 years and in between give me some map packs or modes or something.

Ubi is adopting EA's mentality. They are now spamming the Clancy titles. I think the mentality there is that it's better to constantly have new product on the shelf then to make a really great game every 2 or 3 years. In effect what they are trying to do is to crowd out competitors by always filling up the shelf with some so-so new product. I guess though that some people can't enough of some games and they'll buy whatever hits the shelf no matter how similar it is to the previous game.
 
Great Crazy Eddie impression Wombat!

Another great podcast. I think what distinguishes you guys from other gaming podcasts is that you include a personal touch. I for one like the fact that you guys don't just talk about games but also add in aspects of your personal lives. It definitely adds to the community aspect of the website.

Congrats on getting pizzaid!

Oh and by the way stick to talking and not singing :D Cheapy, Ring of Fire was way, way better.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.[/quote]


...and? Did you like it? Will you do it again? Worms is amazing, we used to play it in my office at lunch across the network. Endless comedy!
 
[quote name='CheapyD']I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.[/quote]

Same here. It was always one of those "I really want to" but never got around to it type things. Having it show up on XBL was a great opportunity for me to finally get in on some worms action.
 
Noah's Arcade (he has two of every game) is from Wayne's World. The guy comes on the show and Wayne makes fun of him behind his back the whole time.

Also don't forget that Carmine is the first guy to get killed and he is black.
 
I feel almost weird for saying this but . . .

I've never heard Eye in the Sky before, but now due to Wombat's karaoke, the song is stuck in my head.

And the worst thing is I have his voice associated to it now, so I don't wanna download the real version and taint this classic, lol.

Also, the songs have been the best thing recently. The Ring of Fire clip from the older episode was hilarious, and today's bit where you put it in the CAGcast was awesome too.
 
Let's all scurry down into the burrow for a minute with The-Bavis as he talks at Wombat.

In general, I agree that many games just need a slight freshening at the release of a sequel and not a complete re-imagining every time. If a game was generally thought to be of good quality by reviewers and customers and the sales were acceptable, then why take the extra risk and spend the extra time to revamp everything or to throw in some new feature?

Now, some franchises have become stale for one reason or another (sequel saturation, copy-cat games have surpassed the original, etc.) and those probably need a bigger refresher. The most important thing I think stale franchises can do is to take time off. Let the nostalgia build. Even if it's just 3-years-ago nostalgia, it will put some warm fuzzies in people's memories all the while the developer is making some brand-spanking new franchise that is as innovative as all get out. Then pump out Stale Franchise 7.0 and all the loyal fans come clamoring back.

What franchises that are losing their luster need to avoid is adding pointless tacked on features to try and win back the sliding market share. If I'm playing the latest Castlevania and Cousin Oliver struts onto the scene, then my loyalty is gone and my trust has to be won back next time.

None of the above applies to Madden because clearly, the market is willing to pay for each year's iteration no matter what, so turn that crank EA! Even when your new features fall on their face, you don't care because everybody bought a copy anyway.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']I just started listening to it, but Wombat and CheapyD stick to your day jobs. ;-)[/quote]
This is my day job. ;)
 
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