Community Feedback Poll - Game Piracy

Status
Not open for further replies.
Saying that we shouldn't allow this because it will encourage piracy creates the following situation:

Oh they voted yes on the poll and now I can post my impressions about games that I pirate before street date. I just have to not actually mention I pirated the game and all is well.
HOT DAMN I GUESS I BETTER GO PIRATE SOME GAMES SO I CAN POST EARLY IMPRESSIONS OF THEM ON CHEAPASSGAMER!!
 
I think the idea of banning early reviews is rather ridiculous, and putting a piracy context where it is not warranted.

So, simply put, no, early reviews of games should not be banned because, here, there's a chance they might possibly be pirated games! It's already escalated from "You can talk about piracy, just not give any specific links or details" to "If it can possibly be illegal, we will delete it just in case" (see the PSP forum and the OTT), though, so I'm sure early reviews will be banned promptly.
 
[quote name='Davestation']
Also, borroring and renting is legitimate, it can act as a trial for a game before people commit to buy. It helps to determine if someone wants a game, sure there are those people out there that just mooch off of their friends, but at least the game was purchased in legal means. I believe that if there where restrictions on renting and borrowing, it would only create a bigger piracy problem.[/quote]

It is legitimate, but at the end of the day renting/buying used has exactly the same effect as pirating stuff.

I don't pirate games, music or movies, but I'm amazed the moral high ground some people on this board take on the issue of piracy. No-one seems to be bothered that buying used games from Gamestop is as bad as pirating, based on a strictly "effect on the videogames industry" POV.

Admittedly you're not stealing the game yourself, but how many games that GS sells have been stolen by someone else? You're not exactly part of the solution if you're buying used.
 
[quote name='SuxoR']I think it should be frowned upon, I myself (even Cheapy) watch movies that are technically pirated, and I'm sure we all download music.

Only a few people can say they never have done the above, so if were gonna do this to another medium it's hypocritical to not do it to this one, if you really cared about the "industry" you shouldn't do it to others.

Cheapy should label people who do pirate games "Pirate" or something so people know not to read it or support their blog/review

This way we have a choice, just like the one to pirate[/QUOTE]

None of this makes any sense.
 
[quote name='zewone']None of this makes any sense.[/QUOTE]

People pirate stuff all the time

Why not games...it's not that bad
 
This premise is insipid. Brand folks with a SCARLET P just so you can feel good about yourself in your rush to grab the moral high ground. Make people the subject of a trial where the burden of proof of their innocence falls upon them. Just institute "Don't ask, don't tell." You have no way of proving who is a pirate if they don't admit themselves AS a pirate. Anything else is witch hunts by a bunch of self-righteous jackasses who want to foist their peculiar brand of morality on others.
 
I don't think it would be good for the sites reputation if it were to be labeled as the place where we find it "Okay to pirate stuff."
 
As someone who works diligently to maintain relationships with companies to get review copies, I found it bothersome that people can just pirate the game and post their impressions. I've even been contacted by people who after reading a review on my website, email me asking, "Dood, where did you download XYZ from?"

That being said, I believe this survey might be moot because of enforcement issues. How will a CAG mod be able to know if a review can from a legit or elicit means? I'd hate to see some hardworking writer get his review pulled because some overzealous person THINKS he may have obtained stolen code.
 
[quote name='HeartsAlive']I don't think it would be good for the sites reputation if it were to be labeled as the place where we find it "Okay to pirate stuff."[/QUOTE]

What exactly does this have to do with the topic at hand?

This is not a topic about advocating piracy and whether piracy should be allowed or not- it's about posting early game reviews.

No one posts a game review and says "Man, my pirated copy of Pokemon Platinum sure is fun! Pirate yours today!" If a review of a fame is posted before it's out, people can draw their own conclusions about how the person is playing the game. Unfortunately it looks like Cheapy not only drew his conclusion for every person on the site, but he provided it in the topic title/description and has influenced a lot of replies to be about the topic of pirating games, not the topic of early review posting, tainting the whole process of having a poll by mentioning piracy outright.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']This premise is insipid. Brand folks with a SCARLET P just so you can feel good about yourself in your rush to grab the moral high ground. Make people the subject of a trial where the burden of proof of their innocence falls upon them. Just institute "Don't ask, don't tell." You have no way of proving who is a pirate if they don't admit themselves AS a pirate. Anything else is witch hunts by a bunch of self-righteous jackasses who want to foist their peculiar brand of morality on others.[/quote]

QFT.
 
[quote name='kingsoby1']Yes. Piracy is illegal, but reporting your impressions of a pirated game isn't. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree with this. I do not condone piracy but do not see the reason to expressly forbidden someone talking about a pre-release game. This would be no different than talking about an LSD trip. LSD is not legal but talking about it is just fine.

I think it's very obvious to draw the line at promoting piracy.
 
[quote name='Davestation']I just mentioned that to prove that members of this community are more than willing to pay full price for a game. The suggestion that no one here will pay full price for a game is insane. There are threads about the $149.99 lancer bundle, the $79.99 Resistance 2 Special Edition, and the $89.99 Metal Gear Limited Edition. People love certain franchises and are willing to pay. Corrosivefrost is niave enought to believe otherwise. To have a $149.99 lancer be your number one purchase off of a cheapass website only proves this, why wasn't a cheaper game number one for a website that loves cheap games? It's because people love franchises and cheapassgamer was one of the first to post the deal do to the community.



First off, you obviousley do not work in retail. All games are not street dated like Movies and Music. If you go to Gamestop to pick up Dragon Quest IV for the DS, they will most likely get the game the day after it ships. For other retailers such as Target, Wal Mart, and K-Mart they will receive it at there Distribution Centers the day after it ships. After they get it at the DC's it takes time for them to process it and get it on a trailer to their stores. For Street Dated items, everyone usually has the title in store about a week before the street date with big stickers that say "DO NOT SELL UNTIL OCT 17, 2008. Gamestop always brags about being the first to get the game, that is because they get the games shipped straight to the stores. Only big releases have a Street Date, not every game. Your not going to see a Target or Wal Mart employee turn you down if your trying to buy Cooking Mama 2 for the Wii when it comes out.

Also, borroring and renting is legitimate, it can act as a trial for a game before people commit to buy. It helps to determine if someone wants a game, sure there are those people out there that just mooch off of their friends, but at least the game was purchased in legal means. I believe that if there where restrictions on renting and borrowing, it would only create a bigger piracy problem.[/QUOTE]

yeah, cause borrowing and renting ensure you don't complete the game and say "I don't need to buy it now." I know I bought assassin's creed after I played through my friends copy. oh wait. I didn't.

and just cause a person is a sucker to a franchise doesn't mean they're going to wait for their favorite franchise to be cheap to buy it. I bought MGS4 LE (which wasn't worth it, so I sold it), day one. But it's the only purchase I've made in the last 5 years on day one. does that mean i'm running out and paying $150 for gears 2 lancer bundle or $80 for Resistance 2? Hell no. And at least 2, if not 3, of the top 5 "cheapass" preorders will have their fair share of cancellations. Fable 2? Got the pub games code... not interested anymore. Thanks. CoD5 for $20? Yes please (it'll get cancelled anyway). Free Banjo Kazooie with $40 Banjo Kazooie 3? Yup. But people who were only interested in the free code for BK will probably cancel since the code comes after the game ships.

and I'm familiar with retail. I worked at an EB before they merged with GS.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Just institute "Don't ask, don't tell."[/QUOTE]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

:roll:

That said, this whole idea is a mess. A site that had demonoid invites, private torrent site swaps, more or less flagrant talk of piracy on 360 and DS (probably PSP, too, but nobody talks about that system anymore) - we can't police it all.

I frankly don't care one way or another about silencing or banning. I know that there are a few flagrant offenders who consistently, week after week, have 360 tags displaying that they're already playing through next week's releases - well, call 'em out on it. Send 'em packing if it bothers you.

The important things to know are that (1) you aren't going to curb their piracy, (2) they'll simply find other means of establishing themselves as attention-demanding internet users, and (3) there's no way that it will be consistently applied, and much bitching (well, more bitching, I suppose) will ensue.

But let's not act like we don't know who some of the bigger offenders on this site are. If you want to be done with them, be done with them.
 
[quote name='msdmoney']I would say no. Titan Quest was a great example of why this creates problems. People were using cracked copies of the game, which they thought was indicative of the final product. It turns out that the game was crashing because of an anti-piracy check that ran during the first dungeon. The game garnered a reputation of being buggy and glitchy before release. See the attached post by the THQ CEO on the quartertothree forums.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663

You also might want to think about the relationships you have with the developers Cheapy. As the site grows your exposure and interaction with the developement community will grow along with it. We already know developers listen to the Cagcast, and we've seen you appearing on Bloomberg, etc. Allowing the posting of impressions based on pirated software will give you a reputation that is guilty by association. Sure, most posts would fly under the radar, but all it could take is one accusation by a developer that names a post on this site. Maybe most users don't care about that, or see it as insignificant. I think it better serves the community for your site to be respected in the industry, such that the CAG Community has its voice heard (the power of gaming communities) when it comes to getting the most out of our gaming dollar, rather than getting some early impressions of a game.[/quote]

[quote name='gunm']I'm not sure why this is even a question since the CAG forum discourages/prohibits any warez or otherwise illegal discussions, but of course I had to vote no.[/quote]

[quote name='bmulligan']I voted NO.

There's no reason for CAG to draw a target around itself.[/quote]

That's all that needs to be said.
 
I'm voting no on Pirated software, if of course they get an early copy by legitimate means then the reviewer should be able to state something about the game.
 
They already pirated it, preventing them from writing about it isn't going to stop piracy.

At least if you allow it, we can get impressions of games well before other reviews and base our purchasing decisions accordingly.
 
well just cause someone posts about a game early dosn't mean in was piracy. They could work for blockbuster. When my sister in law was a manager she recieved games in store about a week before they came out. They have to open them and get them ready for sell in the blockbuster cases. We got to play the games for a week until the day they came out. So we could and did review games before they " came" out. That may be the case for some of these reviews. Unless you seen them or they admited to piracy you can't really blame them for it. Innocent till proven guilty.
 
[quote name='Loonknight']I'm voting no on Pirated software, if of course they get an early copy by legitimate means then the reviewer should be able to state something about the game.[/QUOTE]

Either you worded this ... so that it is unclear... or you didn't check the question before responding, only the thread title. :whistle2:k
 
No; they should not get any credit or recognition for stealing the game. I suggest that as at some other sites, if you post impressions of a game before release dates you should be required to provide a photo of a legit copy of the game + receipt.
 
[quote name='Salmonday']If you allow it to be posted, you reward piracy. Simple as that. A.) They are doing it to try to bolster sympathy for their shameful practice.
B.) They have already stated their position on whether someone should buy it because they DIDN'T see fit to buy it.
C.) Their opinion holds no more weight than any other review a CAG could use to determine their purchases.


In short: pirates suck, and should be driven out like filthy beasts.[/quote]

Agreed!


[quote name='donkeydrop']No; they should not get any credit or recognition for stealing the game. I suggest that as at some other sites, if you post impressions of a game before release dates you should be required to provide a photo of a legit copy of the game + receipt.[/quote]

A great way for those with legit copies they obtained early to still get the credit! :D
 
I think it should be faced with a "Don't ask, don't tell policy." As long as they aren't openly admitting to having pirated, no action should be taken against it, because just because they got it early doesn't mean it's pirated.

As an example, let's say someone got spore early last week and posted some impressions. As long as he never said, "Yeah, I totally torrented this shit" or something to that extent no action should be taken against it.

Did that make sense? My words got kind of jumbled
 
Well its a dual edged sword. Without asking someone to provide a picture of their box with reciept you can't verify if they received the game legally. If you work at a game store you could reasonably play the game more than a week before it comes out. A store could break street dates.

The other side. Are you promoting piracy? Are you applauding it? I for one am tired of debating the legitimacy of gaming review sites. How do you know they are not being paid off? I would love a more "working's man" review of a game so long as they do not post any spoilers etc.

I guess I would say yes, because I for one hate buying crappy games. Saying no won't stop them from doing what they are doing. It only helps me by reading the review.
 
[quote name='WormFOODx']Well its a dual edged sword. Without asking someone to provide a picture of their box with reciept you can't verify if they received the game legally.[/QUOTE]

Even if you required the box and receipt there could be problems; what about DLC? It is increasingly becoming a more standardized way to distribute software.
 
[quote name='Rocko']What exactly does this have to do with the topic at hand?

This is not a topic about advocating piracy and whether piracy should be allowed or not- it's about posting early game reviews.

No one posts a game review and says "Man, my pirated copy of Pokemon Platinum sure is fun! Pirate yours today!" If a review of a fame is posted before it's out, people can draw their own conclusions about how the person is playing the game. Unfortunately it looks like Cheapy not only drew his conclusion for every person on the site, but he provided it in the topic title/description and has influenced a lot of replies to be about the topic of pirating games, not the topic of early review posting, tainting the whole process of having a poll by mentioning piracy outright.[/QUOTE]



Actually, it almost is a topic about advocating piracy. It's on the front page, which is absolutely horrible. It implies, "Okay, we pirate things, but should we be highlighting reviews of these things or keep it to the shadows?"

This shouldn't be front page news, even asking it makes the site look shady and that it is a pandemic problem here.

Ultimately, what does it even matter? An informed opinion is an informed opinion, and the method the writer obtained the game has nearly 0% chance of influencing the method the reader planned on getting the game in the first place (the one exception: Reviews that point out unnecessary levels of DRM would turn a lot of people off to buying it.)
 
Guys, forget all of this "Was it pirated? Was it bought early at a store? Can you provide a receipt and picture for proof?" He's not asking about any of that.

He's saying to assume that people did pirate a game. Can that person discuss the game before its release date on CAG? Just discussion. Not necessarily reviews, not direct links or how to's. Piracy itself wouldn't even be mentioned in the posts.

Let's say I got Gears 2 early. Would me writing up my thoughts on the game or initial impressions before the game was out be a big deal? That's what Cheapy is asking.
 
As long as the they state that it was a early or in progress version. Because being an unproved and unkown copy quality and bugs may appear that are not included in retail version.
 
[quote name='Trakan'] Can that person discuss the game before its release date on CAG? Just discussion. Not necessarily reviews, not direct links or how to's. Piracy itself wouldn't even be mentioned in the posts.[/QUOTE]

So let me get this right; Cheapy wants to know if people should be able to discuss, not review, games that have yet to be released. Isn't that the purpose of the internets? ;)

Perhaps the problem is the ambiguity of the original question. When ever party B has to step in and say, "No, Part A, meant THIS", there's a problem.

As far as piracy, I've heard people on the Destuctoid podcast and Retronauts talk about playing older 'roms'. When people in the industry are doing it, the average game just might justify it. And, in all fairness, my site has an article on DS emulation, so I'm guilty as the next guy.
 
[quote name='Danimal']No. Piracy hurts the industry and by no means should it ever be encouraged in any way, shape, or form on this site. There are plenty of places online to find reviews for games prior to their release, so reviews from someone pirating software does no service to anyone.

I do, however, agree with darthbudge's point that it can be difficult to tell whether a game has been pirated if the reviewer doesn't come right out and admit it. Stores do break street dates.[/QUOTE]

:applause: Well stated. I agree with this person.
 
completelyvalidarguemenzx2.jpg

This is why we can't trust those darn pirate's reviews!
 
Should be allowed unless this site is banning ALL pre-release info including screens, dates, etc.
It's just as easy to assume that somebody managed to buy the game early as it is to assume that they pirated it so why are you trying so hard to believe they did the latter? Clearly you do not like the individuals you think are pirating games and are trying to stop it with this faux democratic approach.
 
[quote name='Jobbercho']Should be allowed unless this site is banning ALL pre-release info including screens, dates, etc.[/quote]

Yes, we will ban all release dates, screens, etc... immediately. C'mon now, this doesn't even make sense.

It's just as easy to assume that somebody managed to buy the game early as it is to assume that they pirated it so why are you trying so hard to believe they did the latter?
Click to expand...

People don't hide piracy well. It's not that hard to tell. Maybe we can't prove it, but we really wouldn't need to in regards to how things are handled on CAG.

Clearly you do not like the individuals you think are pirating games and are trying to stop it with this faux democratic approach.
Click to expand...

This assumption couldn't be further from the truth.

Cheapy's just trying to get the communities take on the situation. People can certainly keep bringing up "what if" scenarios about why or why not we shouldn't act when we have suspicion though. It's been a humorous thread to read.
 
Looks like Cheapy has got a choice here:

Allow it, and support the users.

Disallow it, and support his wallet and the site's reputation.

I said yes; there is no reason to stop people posting opinion on games that are not available yet. I value other people's opinions regardless of how they got the source. I rent to review, but I give the same amount to the developer as a pirate does: Sweet F'A.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell will work just fine. This site is called CheapAssGamer. Granted, there is nothing cheaper than pirating (unless you get fined), but a site that is devoted to getting as much goodness out of your gaming dollar/pound as possible should allow people to make a decision on a game based on an opinion that is ahead of the release date, to stretch that gaming money.

Sorry if I got on my high horse a little bit there, but I read the topic and people are siding with either the site, or it's users. I'm with the users.
 
I dont see what the problem is it isnt like your allowing them to sell pirated games. So people who scream "NO BECAUSE PIRATED GAMES ARE ILLEGAL." Are just plain goofy. What does it hurt if someone gives a review?

[quote name='scott123456']Keep CAG honest and don't allow it.[/quote]

We share coupons how honest are we really? lol
 
[quote name='kPod']Sorry if I got on my high horse a little bit there, but I read the topic and people are siding with either the site, or it's users. I'm with the users.[/QUOTE]

It's not the site versus the users, it's a poll to see what the users want.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']It's not the site versus the users, it's a poll to see what the users want.[/quote]Sorry, I meant it in the sense of being in the best interests of. Whether it's in the best interests of the users of the site, or in the best interests of the site itself, it's revenue and reputation.
 
[quote name='kPod']Sorry, I meant it in the sense of being in the best interests of. Whether it's in the best interests of the users of the site, or in the best interests of the site itself, it's revenue and reputation.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I see now.

I don't want to put words into Cheapy's mouth here, but I'm going to because I think I know where he is coming from on this: this poll has very, very little to do with the sites revenue and reputation and everything to do with doing what the community wants.
 
I voted yes. Although, if a reviewer/previewer specifically stated they pirated it I would say no.

But honestly, if someone is stupid enough to write it in a way that we know they pirated it, the review/preview will more than likely not be well written and will not get my attention.
 
I'm amazed at the responses here... and I can't help but LOL at 'when you let someone talk about a game, the pirates win' wtf kind of bs is that.


I think if someone mentions in their review that they pirated it, that part should be edited out by a mod. There's no reason for people to mention how they got the game in their review. But to say people can't review games before release... that's pretty bogus and only further harms the developer. The pirates will pirate regardless, and them talking about the game doesn't help them, it only helps the game's creators/publisher.
 
Should reviews of pirated material be allowed? Yes. Should tutorials on how to pirate be listed? No.

If you're going remove reviews of pirated material you better remove all the two week early store ads. No more talks of exploiting sales like the CC sale where you could get a $60 game for $.01. There's already a stigma about buying games on sale and returning them for full retail, but it's not officially against the rules. No more promoting printing off 40 copies of $5 off BB coupons. No more swapping oink/demoniod/etc invites. No more talking about watching anime/mangas in the US the day after it came out in Japan.

And, Cheapy, I'm sure there is atleast one legal way to watch BSG. Wait like a good boy for the DVD release and then buy it. The same thing someone in the US would have to do (legally) if they missed the airing on TV.

It isn't a black and white issue and you're no more a victim than a pirate is a worthless sleeze. I'd be willing to bet at least 99.9% of the active members of this site have done something that wasn't totally legit and no one has any right to take the moral high ground. Quite simply, if you ban discussion of one facet of piracy, you best block the rest, which would be a healthy chunk of the discourse on this board.
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']Perhaps the problem is the ambiguity of the original question. When ever party B has to step in and say, "No, Part A, meant THIS", there's a problem. [/quote]

I don't think he could have worded it any better. I understand the question perfectly, but it seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting it.

I am also in agreement with what shipwreck said. Cheapy wants to know what the community thinks.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Okay, I see now.

I don't want to put words into Cheapy's mouth here, but I'm going to because I think I know where he is coming from on this: this poll has very, very little to do with the sites revenue and reputation and everything to do with doing what the community wants.[/QUOTE]
Agree with this. I think it is entirely a community based effort, I'm just concerned that some people either don't understand what the poll is asking, or need stronger evidence to back themselves up.

Then again, I'm obviously of the allow it mindset, but I really was hoping to see an argument that I could say, "hey ok, I guess thats reasonable, I could consider not allowing pirate reviews for reason X" you know at least something to work on.

But so far the best I've seen is the "pirated versions may be buggy so a disclaimer should be made" argument, and even that is pretty iffy.

In most other cases, I don't even see how a review and if the game was pirated are even related.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']yeah, cause borrowing and renting ensure you don't complete the game and say "I don't need to buy it now." I know I bought assassin's creed after I played through my friends copy. oh wait. I didn't.

and just cause a person is a sucker to a franchise doesn't mean they're going to wait for their favorite franchise to be cheap to buy it. I bought MGS4 LE (which wasn't worth it, so I sold it), day one. But it's the only purchase I've made in the last 5 years on day one. does that mean i'm running out and paying $150 for gears 2 lancer bundle or $80 for Resistance 2? Hell no. And at least 2, if not 3, of the top 5 "cheapass" preorders will have their fair share of cancellations. Fable 2? Got the pub games code... not interested anymore. Thanks. CoD5 for $20? Yes please (it'll get cancelled anyway). Free Banjo Kazooie with $40 Banjo Kazooie 3? Yup. But people who were only interested in the free code for BK will probably cancel since the code comes after the game ships.

and I'm familiar with retail. I worked at an EB before they merged with GS.[/quote]

See, even you admit that you will pay full price for a game. You also have to keep in mind, once somebody purchases a game it is there property. They can sell it, loan it out, even throw it away. That is there very own physical copy. What they can not do, is take the data off of the disc and make multiple copies of that data to distribute it.

Let's use an instance to your logic here. Let's say that you are driving down the Interstate and you get a flat tire. You look in your trunk and realize that you do not have a tire iron. So you call your buddy and he brings one for you to use. Your buddy paid for it at an auto shop and he is now bringing it to you to use. Under your same logic, that should not be the case. What needs to be done is, you need to go out and buy your own tire iron and not use your buddies. After all, you did not pay for the tire iron right?

After all, its not like the tire iron company is going to see any more profit by allowing your friend to loan you his tool. So, selling used things is not just in the video game industry. You have Pawn Shops, Used Book Stores, and even used tool stores. This all happens because people sell what they do not want anymore to make a quick buck.
 
I say don't allow it. You loosen the grip on this and you'll likely start a slippery slope of loosening other types of gray area matters.

Maybe I'm looking out for this site as a whole, but disappointing a few is better than running into legal troubles later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top