Final Fantasy XIII - Gen. Discussion & Info

[quote name='Furashu']is there a limited edition of FF13?[/QUOTE]
There is in Europe at least. We don't know yet what will be in it or if the US will get one.
 
Thanks for that link!

I fought a boss in the middle of chapter 10 tonight which has really altered my view of this game. I won't say who it is, because it's a major spoiler. You'll find out soon enough, kenji.

I can now say, without hesitation, some people will absolutely despise this game. It deals with reaction time more than actual strategy building, and when speed is of the essence, you simply can't have your AI-controlled team members casting the wrong spells. If they cast cure on the wrong player just once it can mean the battle. The AI is outstanding for the most part, but it's also imperfect. That's going to cause a ton of confusion and frustration among players.

I don't hate the game, but I'm enjoying it a bit less than when I first picked it up.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Thanks for that link!

I fought a boss in the middle of chapter 10 tonight which has really altered my view of this game. I won't say who it is, because it's a major spoiler. You'll find out soon enough, kenji.

I can now say, without hesitation, some people will absolutely despise this game. It deals with reaction time more than actual strategy building, and when speed is of the essence, you simply can't have your AI-controlled team members casting the wrong spells. If they cast cure on the wrong player just once it can mean the battle. The AI is outstanding for the most part, but it's also imperfect. That's going to cause a ton of confusion and frustration among players.

I don't hate the game, but I'm enjoying it a bit less than when I first picked it up.[/QUOTE]

From reading your posts it seems like you're more into the hype or you're just dedicated to the series. Is the story really that good? The trailers made it seem like a Lifetime movie.
 
Please explain the first part.

I have played through all of the main FF canon titles (I-XII), for what it's worth, so I can admit to that much.
 
I'm questioning whether or not you're playing it because of the anticipation its creating (at least among forum dwellers). I don't know why you're playing it to be honest, because it sounds like you're not really enjoying it. That's why I posted. I want to know if you think the game is fun.

I'm certainly going to try before I buy this time around. I feel like the die-hard FF nuts are saying "well it's not so good but it's still good enough."
 
I've put about 25 hours into it, so I'd say I have a better grasp of whether I'm playing it due to hype or because I enjoy it.

I do enjoy it, but with some reservations, and some recognition that while it succeeds in many ways in terms of evolving the JRPG genre, they aren't executed flawlessly. With a game that has "Final Fantasy" in the title (and isn't followed by "Crystal Chronicles," ;)), expectations are necessarily going to be astronomically high. If it seems I'm panning the title, or being overly cynical, it's perhaps an attempt to temper the exceedingly high expectations people have for the game. It's a fun game, it's a solid game, it has a great story and it deserves accolades for taking risks.

But a Final Fantasy title getting accolades is to be expected. It's redundant. If I'm pointing to negatives too much, it's because I expect the main canon to consist of amazing games in terms of play and story. And also to say that this game is not perfect, and some of the risks it takes this time around will certainly turn some folks away from the game altogether. I think that's being realistic rather than trudging along through a game I despise.

That spot will be reserved for "Demon's Souls," a game designed around convincing players that it's not the game that stinks, it's the player. A novel concept, but also one borne of marketing. It's why people exalt the Ninja Gaiden games the way they do.
 
Too much time in the Vs. Forum, I wanted you to explain why you were playing, my mistake if that wasn't clear. Good point about the hard games, but what risks does XIII take?
 
I've been a huge fan of the FF series since the first NES title. The speed of the battles is the main issue. I'll go into more detail on that later tomorrow, as it's a bit on the late side for me.
 
This is Final Fantasy for the MainStream, it been dumb down so that you can play it with out any clue how rpg works.


and i sadly have already finished the import
 
Just wondering myke, do you have one of your optima's set to two healer roles, or even three healer roles? I think it helps a lot to set two characters to heal, and one as an enhancer, especially when an enemy is battering your party.

I'm personally really enjoying the speed of the battles :D
 
Yep. Lemme see if I can remember my optima settings used for the aforementioned very difficult battle:

1) attack/blaster/blaster
2) blaster*3
3) attack/blaster/healer
4) healer/defender/healer
5) attack/jammer/healer
6) attack/jammer/enhancer

To be fair to the game, I did win the first (maybe second) time that I used that lineup of optima changes - the previous 4 losses I only had three optima settings but made it quite far in the battle before losing.

To that degree, you can certainly say that it was me that was no good, not the game. I still can't shake the feeling, however, that it's a bit on the arbitrary side nevertheless, as at least two of those losses happened b/c the boss unleashed a nasty combo on my main character (if the character you control dies, it's instant game over, folks) - sure, Lightning died, but her HP at that point was about 85-90% of its total.

Maybe my HP is too low? I dunno - I've read of folks having their characters' HP at 2500+ at this point in the game. That has to involve some degree of grinding, as my characters are b/w 1100-1880(ish) and I have not backtracked one bit or spent any time grinding (but I've also not been running from battles either).
 
Now, willard, as for whether I like this game or not, I do. I'm sitting and thinking about how I look forward to playing it again this evening. I want to get to chapter 11, where the missions/side quests finally open up. I want to see how that aspect of the game is treated as well as continue to develop my characters.

This is absolutely a very good game, but I think that what it does will alienate traditional JRPG gamers. Let's be honest: JRPGs attract obsessive-compulsive micromanagers. People who want to collect every last thing available, take on every beast in the game, level up every number to its peak, etc. Changing the battle structure such that you're taking away some control from the player is going to positively *infuriate* some players. Your team AI is solid; if you've fully uncovered the attributes of an enemy (either by using Libra or over consecutive battles against that type), your AI will exploit their weaknesses and avoid what they can defend against. An enemy weak against fire spells will see fire cast on it. Good for them.

The problem I experienced was in this boss fight. It wasn't the 85%+ HP-draining attack, it wasn't the AOE attack "Seraph's Cry" that gave them haste, brave, protect and shell (I think), debuffed all my characters, and drained around 400-800 per character. When I saw Seraph's Cry was being cast, I immediately switched to my optimate lineup #4 above (2 healers 1 defender). There's no avoiding the AOE attack, so I knew I would need to heal. Well, I have two healers and three people who need cure spells. Now, I'm in control of one of the healers, so that's fine. I can control who I cast heal on. I don't overlap with the AI healer, even if I don't wait for them to cast first.

But when I healed myself (player controlled character) last because I felt the other two needed heal more (as did the AI healer, apparently ;)) - then the boss immediately took me into the aforementioned big-ol combo that ended the entire battle when two characters had full HP and I did not.

Now, you can say "well, if the battle ends immediately when person X dies, then don't delay in keeping their HP up, knucklehead." And I can't argue with that logic.

But I also return to the idea of control in RPGs - this game takes a bit away from that, and I have a feeling it's going to set people on fire.

And returning to what I said last night, it's still a good game - hell, a great game. But great's not good enough for a Final Fantasy title, right? In the world we live in, numbers represent how we feel about a game - and I don't think FFXIII warrants anything more than an 8.5 out of 10, and I think that it's probably closer to an 8 or even 7.5 at this point. Saying that about a Final Fantasy game is borderline blasphemous. I recognize it for its faults, even as I appreciate the risks it takes. Games don't get "honorable mention" credit for taking chances that don't pay off completely. It's like people feel about Killzone's "weight" in carrying weapons and firing; some love what it does to the genre, and other people feel that it makes the game wholly unplayable. FFXIII's speed and AI systems will do the same thing for RPGs.

The linearity won't be an issue, I feel. But holy jesus it is linear.
 
I guess I'm the odd one out. JRPGs are the mainstay of my gaming and I play straight to the end, more or less as quick as I can, and go on to the next one. I dont do the completionist thing.

I guess I can agree with the control aspect, so that might be a separate thing from being completionist. Hell, I dont even play any of the Tales, Tri-Ace, BioWare or most action RPGs simply because they take full control away from one or more characters on the team. I wont be playing Persona 3. Then again, those games have gotten popular, so maybe people will be more accepting because they've been gradually brought into it, those that are still playing the dwindling genre that is JRPGs.

I also be the odd one for thinking back in the day that Final Fantasy 10 was the worst one of all time, until 12 and then I thought that about 12. I suspect 13 will be the next one in that role.
 
2,3, and 5 are the 'worst' to me primarily because we did not get to experience them in the states at a time when they were still innovative or new. Perhaps V was harmed by the main character being named "Butz" (yeah, I'm juvenile) on the PS1 version.

I have sympathy for FF2, however - it's maligned and the only FF canon title other than XIII to not have a leveling system for the player. I've played through it about 3 times, I think - once on the wonderswan, once on famicom, and once on PSP. To that, I never truly experienced the game because I glitched my characters on the famicom/wonderswan versions (well, not a 'glitch,' but a cheat to increase your character's skills early on in the game). And the PSP version was dumbed down significantly so that it was far too easy, even without the gltching.

I'm curious what you dislike so much about FFX, though. I thought it was a fun game that didn't do anything to offend. A very conservative evolution of the genre in my view - and swapping characters in and out of battles was neat-o, IMO.

By the by, the Crystarium system in FFXIII (where you use 'crystal points' to learn new job-specific skills, gain HP and atk/def/magic points) reminds me very, very much of a fleshed out version of the "Sphere Grid" system from FFX.

I also thought the main opinion was that FFXI was the worst in the series - or perhaps it was so bad that people don't consider it a 'real' FF title. ;)
 
A lot happened between 9 and 10 for me. I had gotten into a lot of conventions that exist mostly in niche games which the series never had to begin with. Characters that cant be made the same. Pure turn based, not even Active-Time Battle. While the VA was bad, it didnt bother me as much as it did that it had voice acting, period. 10 being the first to do so.

The overhead map with the arrow really bugged me. I like having a nice expansive world map even if I'm not going to go anywhere but where I need to. Linearity isnt necessarily a problem, but you can do things to make it not feel so confined/restricted. If the game was called something else and not Final Fantasy, I wouldnt've had a problem with it, but I expect things from the moniker.

I'm pretty sure that if I went back and played a lot of the earlier games I would have to like them less, but I almost never replay games.

As you say, this is a natural, conservative evolution. Its where they've been headed for a long time.

I also have a weird affliction in that the better the graphics are, the more it takes me out of the game. I end up scrutinizing it more, or at least stopping to look at things. Its like trying to analyze just what is wrong with the uncanny valley in a character model.

In short, its just me.

(I definitely dont consider 11 to be in the main series)
 
myke, I just finished that Chapter 10 battle you were referring to. After 3 tries, I finally beat him. I was using Lightning, Sazh, and Vanille, but my party was getting owned pretty bad. I decided to switch it up, and went with Snow, Hope, and Lightning. The battle was SO much easier when I stuck Snow with the defender role. I got two chain breaks and managed to beat him pretty easily.

Yeah, the leader dies= game over is pretty annoying. I wish the game put you in control of another party member...but I guess this does increase the challenge of the battles. I do enjoy fully utilizing the optima system, and each characters' strengths and weaknesses.
 
[quote name='Animefalcon']This is Final Fantasy for the MainStream, it been dumb down so that you can play it with out any clue how rpg works.

and i sadly have already finished the import[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the vibe I was getting without even having played the game. :\
 
[quote name='y2kenjination']myke, I just finished that Chapter 10 battle you were referring to.[/QUOTE]

Frustrating at first, but feels very fulfilling afterwards, no?

And a pretty substantial shock as well, right? (which is why I didn't even put the boss in spoilers; with 10 weeks or so to domestic release, I don't want to ruin it for anyone.)

IT'S SEPHIROTH.

kidding.
 
I'm in the same camp as Dr. Mario Kart. I didn't like 10 when it first came out. I didn't like that everyone had to do something on order to earn experience coupled with the character swapping in battle. I did however pick it up again 4 years or so ago and found that I did actually enjoy it though I never finished it.

I couldn't get into 12 at all. None of the characters nor the story interested me.

I'll of course pick up 13 since I've purchased all of them and enjoyed them sans the two previously mentioned but I'm keeping my hopes tempered.
 
[quote name='Animefalcon']This is Final Fantasy for the MainStream, it been dumb down so that you can play it with out any clue how rpg works.


and i sadly have already finished the import[/QUOTE]
IMO, this isn't necessarily a bad thing...trying to make a game more accessible is good. I respect Square for taking risks with every new title, instead of going with the same old boring formula with every new game (*cough Dragon Quest*). Yes, I do realize that Square-Enix also makes Dragon Quest. The game gets rid of a lot of excess material that I don't really care for in RPG's. Just because the game is a bit dumbed down, it doesn't make it any less enjoyable for me. I know myke is having issues with the battle system, but I'm personally lovin' it.

Initially, I was a bit baffled that they took away the leveling system. It doesn't bother me so much anymore. I love how every member in the cast gains an equal amount of CP, even when they're not in your main party.

myke, yeah, that plot twist was pretty surprising. I wasn't expecting it at all!
 
Final Fantasy was the king of fluid menu-based combat involving parties. Honestly after XI and XII I would have preferred a more classic battle system. What can you do though? I hope the FF VII remake surfaces in my lifetime.
 
Well I would like to see a revamped/edited script, additional scenarios, fluid controls and an orchestral soundtrack in addition to the new graphics. I would prefer they didn't add voices but it would be strange for them not to.

What did you have in mind?
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Well I would like to see a revamped/edited script, additional scenarios, fluid controls and an orchestral soundtrack in addition to the new graphics. I would prefer they didn't add voices but it would be strange for them not to.

What did you have in mind?[/QUOTE]

delete anything related to 'chocobo racing' for starters.

i wholly agree with a rewritten script, however. the translation/story is a jumbled pretentious mess. that would make the game leagues better.
 
Chocobo racing could be improved and redesigned... we're getting off topic but I popped VII in my PS2 yesterday and it's still surprisingly fun. The story is pretty good before you take into account all of the sequels and other crap.

My favorite Chocobo mini-game is Hot and Cold.
 
You kidding me? The Chocobo racing in Gold Saucer was loads of fun! Man, if there ever is a remake of FFVII, I really hope they add some more games in Gold Saucer...and improve that mini fighting game they had.

I'll never get sick of FFVII. That game holds a special place in my heart.
 
I don't think it held up well over the years - but hey, it was good enough that I played through the main quest, right? At least not as well as its reputation has held up, that is.

Reached chapter 11 last night - just as I decided I put in my 2 hours and was going to stop.

fuuuuuuuck. Open world, open world, open world!!!! Monsters everywhere, missions to take on, and not at all linear. I must have taken the lack of that for granted thus far in the game, because when I got to that part, I was like "AMEN BROTHER! I'M READY FOR SIDEQUESTIN'!"
 
myke, are the sidequests just the monster hunts, or is there more variety? Is the open area just one big outdoor environment/world map, or are there different regions? Towns?
 
Dunno - I only did the first mission before stopping last night. Which was a monster hunt, and said monster was found in 20 seconds' walking distance of the mission start.

I'm pretty sure they all *have* monsters, as one trophy is tied to earning 5-stars on all missions, so that kinda necessitates battles. But I don't know if that means other stuff is needed.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Well I would like to see a revamped/edited script, additional scenarios, fluid controls and an orchestral soundtrack in addition to the new graphics. I would prefer they didn't add voices but it would be strange for them not to.

What did you have in mind?[/QUOTE]

No way, man. With the crap that has been released under the FF7 umbrella since 7's release, the script would be altered too much to accomodate all of that stuff - it would end up much too different from the original. A simple graphical/audio upgrade with cleaned up translation would be fine.

In the end, I don't think Square-Enix makes it, as Sony published the game, and if SE wanted to make the most money from the game they'd want to release it on 360 as well. That is speculation on my part, as Sony might not have rights to a remake (I don't know).
 
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']Pretty sure they aren't gonna give you the 4-disc OST in a CE. It's selected tracks, prolly 20-30. Definitely good enough....[/QUOTE]

meh im not much of a ST kinda guy, so im dissapointed theres no making of and all that good stuff.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Dunno - I only did the first mission before stopping last night. Which was a monster hunt, and said monster was found in 20 seconds' walking distance of the mission start.

I'm pretty sure they all *have* monsters, as one trophy is tied to earning 5-stars on all missions, so that kinda necessitates battles. But I don't know if that means other stuff is needed.[/QUOTE]

Well, I've finished the first 16 missions and they're all monster hunts, every last one of them.

A very interesting change in the style/pace of the game so late in the title. I'm enjoying a slower paced FF grind, but it's a rather abrupt change.
 
LoL...interestingly enough, I haven't been playing ever since I reached Gran Pulse on chapter 11. It's almost as if I'm completely turned off by the open-endedness. I've enjoyed the linear adventure up until this point. I feel so overwhelmed now, I'm not even sure what I need to do next!

Just upgraded Lightning's weapon to second tier. I'll do some level grinding. Have you found any good spots for level grinding, myke? I'm also completely out of gil...hm.
 
There's a King Behemoth fighting a (can't remember the name, it's a giant-sized white wolf thing) on the far side of the main plane, near the entrance to the Mahabra section. They're easy to break and defeat - okay CP and they have a rare drop that sells for a decent clip. I was able to finally upgrade Lightning's Gladius to Helter Skelter as well.

I can't remember what mission it is, but one gave me the 'good choice' accessory that increases rare drops and the easy choice item which increases smoke drops. It's within the first 18 missions, since I only beat those and decided to move on with the main quest.

Which may not have been the best idea. Just fought
Vanilla's eidolon
and it was hella difficult. Had to switch the ATB gauge to slow in order to win that battle.
 
I abandoned grinding in chapter 11 for the time being - I've finished missions 1 through 28 (certainly not all 5 stars yet).

Started chapter 12 tonight. I anticipate finishing the game around Thursday or Friday of this week. The story is getting incredible, the plot twists and turns dramatic and emotional.

I'm really starting to solidly fall on the "really like" side of this game. It's still not flawless, but what game is. I'll probably write up a full review once I've completed it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

i wholly agree with a rewritten script, however. the translation/story is a jumbled pretentious mess. that would make the game leagues better.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to drag this back, but no amount of polish can change that. And I love FFVII.

It would be funny if in a hypothetical remake all the characters in HD walk into and merge into Cloud's body after every party conversation like the original.
 
At the final boss right now - have to save and call it a night, however, since I have to be awake in 5 hours. I'll try to finish it tomorrow if I have time and I will write up a lengthy, thorough, no-spoiler-havin' review for y'all.

I will say this: the graphics have been good thus far, but the final boss character design is fucking stunning.
it's morbid cubism!
 
Finished the game a bit ago. Great, great story. Epic boss battles at the end.

I'm going to write up a lengthy review tomorrow or Friday - but while I was really frustrated by this game at times, I genuinely think it deserves you to give it a chance if you're into RPGs. I still don't think it is for everyone, but no game is.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Finished the game a bit ago. Great, great story. Epic boss battles at the end.

I'm going to write up a lengthy review tomorrow or Friday - but while I was really frustrated by this game at times, I genuinely think it deserves you to give it a chance if you're into RPGs. I still don't think it is for everyone, but no game is.[/QUOTE]

On a scale of 1 to 10...? :)
 
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