I am really sick of anime influence

[quote name='GuilewasNK']There is some truth to that. That is a trade off for the highly detailed backgrounds and characters. I prefer it that way but I can understand how some don't care for it. That is why shows like Justice League are so important IMO. I has the smoother animation of American shows and the detail and style of anime. It wraps all of that in a package that is unique to anything else available.[/QUOTE]
Historically, Japanese cartoons were drawn much simpler so that they can have a higher framerate. American cartoons may have higher framerates, NOW, but even 10 years ago, American cartoon framerates were not that high. Let alone 20-25 years ago.

However, Japanese-style plain animation turned into more of artistic style rather than a necessity to make smoother animation. Only thing is that Japanese animation hasn't really evolved that much since shows from the 80s, like Gundam Z. Certainly the animation is cleaner, the video quality is better, and they use computers now, but there is no evolution.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Historically, Japanese cartoons were drawn much simpler so that they can have a higher framerate. American cartoons may have higher framerates, NOW, but even 10 years ago, American cartoon framerates were not that high. Let alone 20-25 years ago.

[/QUOTE]

With the exception of Disney feature films, that is true as well.
 
There were a lot (and I mean a lot) of lucid animations from the United States at the dawn of animation, other than Disney features -- for instance, the famous Gulliver's Travels feature.

A lot of the early Warner Bros. stuff (Merry Melodies, specifically) had higher framerates (although often cycled, still very high) than most cartoons today. Not to mention virtually everything in the frame was animated, as they hadn't caught on to using paintings as backgrounds and mid-grounds (and even foregrounds).

It wasn't a matter of skill and technology, between the US and Japan... but merely saving time (money) and money.
 
Truth be told- Anime Animators are animators who never bothered to study human anatomy. Thats why they have all those big eyes and misshapen heads.

I myself am an animator and anime has never really been interesting to me.
 
[quote name='Brak']There were a lot (and I mean a lot) of lucid animations from the United States at the dawn of animation, other than Disney features -- for instance, the famous Gulliver's Travels feature.

A lot of the early Warner Bros. stuff (Merry Melodies, specifically) had higher framerates (although often cycled, still very high) than most cartoons today. Not to mention virtually everything in the frame was animated, as they hadn't caught on to using paintings as backgrounds and mid-grounds (and even foregrounds).

It wasn't a matter of skill and technology, between the US and Japan... but merely saving time (money) and money.[/QUOTE]I forgot about animated shorts from the 40's and 50's. Since they were typically seven minute shorts (designed for theater, not TV), they could devote great resources to animation as opposed to a multi-episode TV show. I loved MGM's stuff (Tom and Jerry primarily). The 60's version of Tom and Jerry was complete crap though.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I forgot about animated shorts from the 40's and 50's. Since they were typically seven minute shorts (designed for theater, not TV), they could devote great resources to animation as opposed to a multi-episode TV show. I loved MGM's stuff (Tom and Jerry primarily). The 60's version of Tom and Jerry was complete crap though.[/QUOTE]

I believe, and ironically enough, that the '60s Tom & Jerry animations were done by Japanese animators. Whatever subtle style they were aiming for was very similar to that of Dr. Suess illustrations -- and it just didn't work.

Another old U.S. cartoon that was (and maybe still is) visually stunning is the old Superman shorts. You can download some of them at www.archive.org, as they are now public domain. Just look in the "Moving Images" section of the archive.
 
[quote name='Brak'] Another old U.S. cartoon that was (and maybe still is) visually stunning is the old Superman shorts. [/QUOTE]

QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.
 
Sorry to keep adding info, but Thundercats, Silverhawks and the Hobbit movie were all made by Rankin/Bass with Topcraft (which had members of studio Ghibli).

I'm just trying to explain that the influence didn't just get here. Eastern and Western artists have been mixing it up for quite some time. What is happening now is that a lot of terrible Japanese cartoons are being localized and turned into something even worse.
 
[quote name='dental_regurgitation']QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

Avatar is actually pretty cool. :)

Brak is right about the old school Superman toons also. I have a DVD of them and they are quite good.

I am just an animation junkie in general.
 
[quote name='jacobv']I'm another one of those guys that just doesn't like Anime at all.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of hard to get into with all the annoying fans who refuse to watch anything that doesn't come from the far east.

I always recommend Cowboy Bebop to people who hate anime, because it is a pretty American-feeling cartoon.
 
[quote name='dental_regurgitation']QFT I love those.

BTW, Totally Spies is produced by a Canadian studio, not American... Here is a list of their shows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Animation

Another eastern influenced show nobody mentioned is Avatar the Last Air Bender, which is quite good. Jackie Chan adventures and Code Lyoko are two others.

Totally Spies has much better art/animation than a show like Zatch Bell.

Disney has been influenced by anime for many decades, and Japan has been influenced by American cartoons also.

EDIT: It doesn't make sense to criticize anime art for its anatomical inaccuracy. Last I checked, western animators were far more notorious for completely incorrect anatomy.[/QUOTE]

Code Lyoko is French.

After doing some searching, I couldn't find the frame rate, but I think The Secret of Nimh is pretty freaking awesome. Animations look very smooth to me, and the character designs are nicely done. Don Bluth is amazing.
 
[quote name='989boi']I never knew the Simpson was animated by a korean studio. All this time I always thought it was done in America.[/QUOTE]

Most animation is done in Korea because they can pay less.

*edit* I just realized I echoed the above post.
 
[quote name='989boi']I never knew the Simpson was animated by a korean studio. All this time I always thought it was done in America.[/QUOTE]

Let me clarify something.

Keyframes are made here in the USA. The In-between frames are made in Korean, Taiwan and India where they have the resources and labor is cheap.

In animation, a key frame is a frame in an animated sequence of frames that was drawn or otherwise constructed directly by the user. When all frames were drawn by animators, the senior artist would draw these frames, leaving the "in between" frames to an apprentice. Now, the animator creates only the first and last frames of a simple sequence; the apprentice fills in the gap. This is called tweening.

So in this case, the apprentices are the people in Korea.
 
[quote name='Xevious']Let me clarify something.

Keyframes are made here in the USA. The In-between frames are made in Korean, Taiwan and India where they have the resources and labor is cheap.

In animation, a key frame is a frame in an animated sequence of frames that was drawn or otherwise constructed directly by the user. When all frames were drawn by animators, the senior artist would draw these frames, leaving the "in between" frames to an apprentice. Now, the animator creates only the first and last frames of a simple sequence; the apprentice fills in the gap. This is called tweening.

So in this case, the apprentices are the people in Korea. [/QUOTE]
Same thing goes for Digital video. You have a keyframe which is a full image, and every successive image after the keyframe uses that full image, and builds off of it.
 
BTW, is there a name for the technique that anime uses to animate mouths for speech? American animators always try to approximate real life lip movements. Anime doesn't seem to do that. Even while listening to the Japanese dub the lips don't appear to approximate the words being spoken.
 
[quote name='Ziv_Zulander']That's because in Japanese Animation, the animation is done before the voices.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Can anyone name ten American shows that rip the anime style? It really doesn't seem like that many do it IMO.[/QUOTE]

I dunno if they are all American (all are Aemrican/Europeon though) but I can name more than ten use an anime art style/influence...

My Life as a Teenage Robot
Megas XLR
Avatar
Kappa Mikey (whenever they air it)
The Boondocks
Teen Titans
Pretty much every animated DC show (JLU, Batman Beyond, etc.)
The Batman
Jackie Chan adventures
all of the crappy French animated shows (Code Lyoko, Winx Club, Tottally spies, etc.)
Powerpuff Girls
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Junper Lee
Ben 10
Samurai Jack
Star Wars Clone Wars


I could probably go on and that's not to say i don't enjoy some of them, but I'd def. say there's 10 or more.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.[/QUOTE]


Lip-synch?
 
The influence goes both ways too. Granted, I understand that it is a larger scale with American toons being influenced by anime but still...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

The history of anime begins at the start of the 20th century, when Japanese filmmakers experimented with the animation techniques that were being explored in the West.

While different titles and different artists have their own unique artistic styles, many stylistic elements have become extremely common. Some examples have become so common that they are often described as being definitive of anime in general, and have been given names of their own. The most common is the large eyes style drawn on many anime characters, common mainly due to the influence of Osamu Tezuka, who was inspired by the exaggerated features of Western cartoon characters such as Betty Boop and Mickey Mouse and from Disney's Bambi. Tezuka found that large eyes allowed his characters to better express their emotions.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.[/QUOTE]
It's called cheap, yet efficient animation. They animate 3-4 frames for opening the mouth, reverse them for closing and just flap the lips for the time it takes them to speak.

There's also the 1-2 frame mouth movements of later Evangelion episodes (interspersed with those 2 minutes of nothing scenes).
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yeah, but I could have sworn there was a technincal name for doing it like that. I might be imagining it though.[/QUOTE]

Are you thinking about "Automatic Dialog Replacement" or ADR for short. Basically an actor looks at the cartoon on the screen and says the dialog according to the lip movements.

Not all actors can do this. Only some voice-actors have the talent to say something that will fit the mouthing of words on a screen. Others dont.
 
While not my favorite style of animation, I tolerated it until they used it in the Teen Titans cartoon. If they want to use it on an original show, sure. Go ahead. But if they use it to ruin one of the greatest comic books of my childhood, they've crossed the shaq-fuing rubicon. I'm perfectly fine with anime, but the americanime (is that a word?) needs to stop.

Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.
 
[quote name='Mouse']While not my favorite style of animation, I tolerated it until they used it in the Teen Titans cartoon. If they want to use it on an original show, sure. Go ahead. But if they use it to ruin one of the greatest comic books of my childhood, they've crossed the shaq-fuing rubicon. I'm perfectly fine with anime, but the americanime (is that a word?) needs to stop.

Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.[/QUOTE]

I don't know a lot about the Teen Titans comics but I have seen enough to understand why someone would feel that way. I don't think it ruined Batman though. Tim Burton did that.
 
The Teen Titans cartoon show draws it's story from Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans of the early 80s. And they rape it to the ground.

Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.

With the Teen Titans however, they decided to rip out two of the founding members (who were also founders of the ORIGINAL Teen Titans) remove all of the interesting subplots, and leave it as a dried husk of the original comic. The crappy animation is just an extra slap on the face of the rest of the crap-fest they've turned it into.

I guess people who never read the original might like it, but to me it's diluted, kiddie, and absolutely appalling.

I guess there's always the chance of a live action movie...
 
[quote name='dental_regurgitation']Oh yeah, and I believe Winx is an Italian show.[/QUOTE]

I watched through all of the first season of that show trying to figure out were the hell it was made. :bouncy:
 
[quote name='Mouse']The Teen Titans cartoon show draws it's story from Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans of the early 80s. And they rape it to the ground.

Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.

With the Teen Titans however, they decided to rip out two of the founding members (who were also founders of the ORIGINAL Teen Titans) remove all of the interesting subplots, and leave it as a dried husk of the original comic. The crappy animation is just an extra slap on the face of the rest of the crap-fest they've turned it into.

I guess people who never read the original might like it, but to me it's diluted, kiddie, and absolutely appalling.

I guess there's always the chance of a live action movie...[/QUOTE]

I can understand that point of view. That is probably why I like it. I never read much of the comic. That is one thing about american comics that bothers me. A successful comic will have so many different incarnations, storylines, and origins that it can get really confusing.

Batman: TAS was and still is great for sure. Gonna watch some today now that you mention it.
 
I have my own style of drawing -- where I've borrowed, mix-matched everything I've ever seen in cartoons, comics, film and real life. I'd love to, for fun (and I've thought about this), my own manga/anime-esque styled comic strip (ala-"Gigantor"/"Astro Boy"/ "Speed Racer") as a side-project. I'll still retain my style, and it will remain evident in the art and story direction -- and this is important to me. I don't like completely aping other peoples' styles.

You know: actually make it mine.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']*Darth Vader voice* Nooooooooooooooooo! How could you?[/QUOTE]

Sorry man. The first movie was good but the second one less than ideal IMO.
 
No one has mentioned Boondocks yet?

That show is inspired completely by anime influence in mind and drawing... just look at Sunday's episode.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Sorry man. The first movie was good but the second one less than ideal IMO.[/QUOTE]

In all fairness to Tim, he was never on set very much, it was ghost directed. WB and Tim had some issues, and Tim was like screw it... and WB pretty much let him walk and finished it and keep Tim's name on it.

You know what annoys the hell out of me though? People who rant in topics and never respond again. It becomes less of a rant, and more of just a bitch-fest and a move-on.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']No one has mentioned Boondocks yet?

That show is inspired completely by anime influence in mind and drawing... just look at Sunday's episode.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the visuals are definitely anime inspired. The content is definitely not though, lol.
 
[quote name='Mouse']
Maybe I'm just bitter. Americanime ruined Batman and the Teen Titans. It killed my father. And raped my mother.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Mouse']
Remember Batman: The Animated Series? That was by far the greatest comic to cartoon conversion ever. They took an established comic, maintained the overall feeling of it, and made something incredible. A "kid's show" that maintained the sophistication and darkness of the comic it sprung from.
[/QUOTE]

That's what I call a contradiction...
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Yeah, the visuals are definitely anime inspired. The content is definitely not though, lol.[/QUOTE]

Look at last Sunday's episode... lots of anime inspired fighting scenes, one episode had the samurai fight in the woods.

Last Sunday's episode was REALLY weak, because Boondocks isn't an action oriented fighting show, imo.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']That's what I call a contradiction...[/QUOTE]

Well he was talking about The Batman at first, the new cartoon series. The old one.........:drool: I loved it to death. I like the Teen Titans though....just fun show I guess but the anime bits are overdone.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']That's what I call a contradiction...[/QUOTE]

I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Look at last Sunday's episode... lots of anime inspired fighting scenes, one episode had the samurai fight in the woods.

Last Sunday's episode was REALLY weak, because Boondocks isn't an action oriented fighting show, imo.[/QUOTE]


When I say content I meant the dialogue and satire. The rampant n-bombs are definitely not anime inspired, lol.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad[/QUOTE]

Probably. The Batman vs. Dracula was pretty good, but other than that it hasn't impressed me. I'll still end up getting the DVD one day though. I like the way they do the fight scenes but with Batman that should be secondary to the dectective work IMO.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I think he's talking about :

Batman : The Animated Series = Good

The Batman = Bad[/QUOTE]

Yes but they are both "americanime" as he calls it. Maybe if they actually got Sunrise to do all the animation work for them again The Batman would be good.
 
I found Samurai Jack to be one of the more blatant rip offs of the Anime style. On top of which, it wasn't particularly interesting or fun to watch.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Yes but they are both "americanime" as he calls it. Maybe if they actually got Sunrise to do all the animation work for them again The Batman would be good.[/QUOTE]

True, whatever happened to Sunrise? That house was the Jesus Christ of Anime.
 
[quote name='kakomu']I found Samurai Jack to be one of the more blatant rip offs of the Anime style. On top of which, it wasn't particularly interesting or fun to watch.[/QUOTE]

Really? I thought more like crappy flash animation.
 
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