Man kills two robbers attempting to rob a neighbor's home

[quote name='camoor']The critical decision was when the guy left the house with his gun with the intention of making a citizen's arrest MURDERING TWO NIGGERS based upon a perceived robbery and trespassing.[/QUOTE]

Fixed that for you.

The quicker Joe Horn goes to Hell the better.
 
[quote name='evanft']He removed two pieces of garbage who were probably going to be cancers on society for the rest of their lives. Meh, at least it wasn't a bunch of school children or something.[/quote]

Bingo. What would happen if the cops showed up? They sit in an overcrowded jail for a while, back on the streets in no time to do it again. Who knows how many times they've done it in the past, and how many lives they've ruined.

God forbid people have to get fucking jobs. No, why do that when you can walk into someone elses house and take the things they work hard for.

But then again I'm biased. Don't confuse that with racist.
 
I don't necessarily think he should have killed him, but he did remove two people who were little more than a drain on society, and I can't complain about that.
 
Courts should decide who is "a drain on society" and who is guilty of crimes, not rednecks with guns.

Those of you touting the ends of this situation are completely overlooking the means by which it happened. If you had thought this situation through, you would realize that the real danger to society is setting a precedent of vigilante justice. Ironically, the guy who shot them posses more danger to you and I than the burglars. This is not a fuckin movie people! I sure hope nobody mistakes me for a drain on society and decides to take the fast track to fixing it instead of "not lifting a finger" as hotshotx put it.

Does lifting fingers to call the cops (the one thing this idiot did right) count?

I was burgled about a year ago. At the time I was pissed but was my life ruined as Opterasis put it? Hell no, dont be stupid/ridiculous. If some of the things/possessions/stuff in your life gets stolen and it ruins your life, you don't have much of a life to begin with. I might as well jump on the "I-can-judge-every-person-and-can-singlehandedly-dole-out-who-is-a-drain-on-society-without-knowing-shit-about-them" bandwagon too and claim that those who value their (or other's) possessions more than their life (or lives of others) are "a drain on society."
 
So the guy with the shotgun is now the police (for going outside), the judge and jury (found them guilty and killed them) and the victim (because they were SUPPOSEDLY coming at him)/

You are really fucking stupid.

1. The 911 woman said stay in the house, the cops would be coming, and he would be safe in his house. The supposed robbers were never threatening him.
2. The man doesn't have the right to go outside and decide who is guilty of what.
3. This is the big one. The robbers are dead, so we are really going to take the word of a murder who hunted these two guys in the street? The robbers obvisously didn't go "We went closer to the guy that came out of his house screaming with a shotgun" because they were fucknig dead!

You are truely one of the dumbest people here.

All the guy had to do, if anything, was go outside and hit the guys with the end pf the shotgun until the cops showed up. This is why so many people make fun of the south.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']

I was burgled about a year ago. At the time I was pissed but was my life ruined as Opterasis put it? Hell no, dont be stupid/ridiculous. If some of the things/possessions/stuff in your life gets stolen and it ruins your life, you don't have much of a life to begin with. I might as well jump on the "I-can-judge-every-person-and-can-singlehandedly-dole-out-who-is-a-drain-on-society-without-knowing-shit-about-them" bandwagon too and claim that those who value their (or other's) possessions more than their life (or lives of others) are "a drain on society."[/quote]

Try being a low income single mother working 2 jobs. You just spent all your money so your daughter can have a good christmas. You come home to a man clearing out your house, and has you at knife-point 2 second after walking in the door before leaving with everything you own. Don't ever say something like this can't ruin your life.

Those men were taking things they didn't own, and had no right to take, that someone else worked their ass off to get. It's not even debatable if they were a waste of space, and worthless scum. They were, end of story. Should they have been killed by that man? Probably not,but you know what? I won't lose a wink of sleep over it. Chances are I'll sleep better knowing maybe at least one dirtbag will now think twice about doing something like that because they don't want to get their heads blown off.

Maybe if cops, judges, and prison systems did their jobs properly, shit like this wouldn't happen.
 
[quote name='opterasis']Try being a low income single mother working 2 jobs. You just spent all your money so your daughter can have a good christmas. You come home to a man clearing out your house, and has you at knife-point 2 second after walking in the door before leaving with everything you own. Don't ever say something like this can't ruin your life.

Those men were taking things they didn't own, and had no right to take, that someone else worked their ass off to get. It's not even debatable if they were a waste of space, and worthless scum. They were, end of story. Should they have been killed by that man? Probably not,but you know what? I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.[/quote]

Something like that CANNOT ruin your life unless your life is worthless to begin with. YOU CAN GET MORE STUFF!!!! You cannot get more lives. You only have one. Some may have missed it the first time I said it so lemme reiterate: Life is the most precious thing you can lose. Everything else is wordly possessions and unimportant RELATIVE to the importance of a beating heart and breathing lungs. Regardless of all of these points, one who does not have insurance is assuming the risk of things like this happening; one who does have insurance will be reimbursed for everything. Life trumps stuff.

You said it is not even debatable whether they were a waste of space or worthless scum. You must not know me that well because (as many vs. forum regs can attest to) I will debate anything. These victims (of the murder) were sons, brothers, possibly fathers. Don't you think the value of their lives might depend upon one's POV? It's silly to go beyond this because you nor I know shit else about them but my point is don't prejudge shit you dont know a thing about. You don't know their story so to say "They were [scum]. End of story." may help you sleep better at night but it does not make it so.

Sorry to be rude opterasis but if you are unable to see the dangers of condoning this type of behavior and overlooking the means when you agree with the ends (because you dictate the lives of scum worthless) then I have to side with bigdaddy when he said "You are truly one of the dumbest people here."
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Something like that CANNOT ruin your life unless your life is worthless to begin with. YOU CAN GET MORE STUFF!!!! You cannot get more lives. You only have one. Some may have missed it the first time I said it so lemme reiterate: Life is the most precious thing you can lose. Everything else is wordly possessions and unimportant RELATIVE to the importance of a beating heart and breathing lungs. Regardless of all of these points, one who does not have insurance is assuming the risk of things like this happening; one who does have insurance will be reimbursed for everything. Life trumps stuff.

You said it is not even debatable whether they were a waste of space or worthless scum. You must not know me that well because (as many vs. forum regs can attest to) I will debate anything. These victims (of the murder) were sons, brothers, possibly fathers. Don't you think the value of their lives might depend upon one's POV? It's silly to go beyond this because you nor I know shit else about them but my point is don't prejudge shit you dont know a thing about. You don't know their story so to say "They were [scum]. End of story." may help you sleep better at night but it does not make it so.[/quote]

What story is there to need to know? What could possibly justify walking into someones house and taking their stuff? I can't think of anything that couldn't be solved by "get a fucking job."

When did I condone it? When did I say what he did was okay? I already said they probably didn't deserve to die, however, I'm not going to feel bad for some criminals who would still be alive if they used their heads.
 
[quote name='opterasis']What story is there to need to know? What could possibly justify walking into someones house and taking their stuff? I can't think of anything that couldn't be solved by "get a fucking job."

When did I condone it? When did I say what he did was okay? I already said they probably didn't deserve to die, however, I'm not going to feel bad for some criminals who would still be alive if they used their heads.[/quote]

Things I would want to know are (to name a few) the mental health of the victims (of the murder), whether they had any priors, what their financial conditions were (starving/homeless?), whether they were under the influence of any drugs/prescription drugs, whether they had a history of violence or whether they were simply junkie burglars, whether they had a family/support network making rehabilitation possible. The list goes on and on ad infinitum. My point is just that you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you chalk them up to "scum" and then go the next step and dictate the lives of scum worthless. I've done scumbagish type things (took stuff out of an abandoned house/warehouse) and under the eyes of the law this is just as bad. Does that make me scum and my scumbag life worthless?

You implicitly condoned the vigilante's actions with the tone of your posts.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Things I would want to know are (to name a few) the mental health of the victims (of the murder), whether they had any priors, what their financial conditions were (starving/homeless?), whether they were under the influence of any drugs/prescription drugs, whether they had a history of violence or whether they were simply junkie burglars, whether they had a family/support network making rehabilitation possible. The list goes on and on ad infinitum. My point is just that you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you chalk them up to "scum" and then go the next step and dictate the lives of scum worthless. I've done scumbagish type things (took stuff out of an abandoned house/warehouse) and under the eyes of the law this is just as bad. Does that make me scum and my scumbag life worthless?

You implicitly condoned the vigilante's actions with the tone of your posts.[/quote]

Maybe I did make it sound like it was okay with my tone. I'm sorry, I don't think it is. However, I don't see any of those circumstances as acceptable. I don't see burglery as a one time thing, although maybe theres some evidence to prove me wrong. I just don't see someone saying "well im just going to break into this one house so I can afford food for another day, and then I'll never do it again." Any one of those circumstances makes the person a strain on society, and there isn't nearly enough done to rehabilitate criminals. Also, I think taking abandoned property is no where near as bad as entering a residence and taking things. However, you did admit it was scumbaggish.
 
I didn't admit it was scumbaggish, I said it was a scumbaggish type of thing to do (semantics I know). If I had been going in there to steal (as opposed to just fuck around with michevious teenage friends and smoke and break some glass bottles, actually now it sounds almost as bad as going in for the purpose of stealing). We did know it was abandoned though so that helps I guess. My question remains does that make me scum and my scumbag life worthless?

Sometimes my faince acts bitchy. She will whine and complain and pick fights over nothing. She is far from a bitch though (one of the most benevolent, selfless women I know). So sometimes GOOD people do BAD things. When you kill them, for doing that bad thing, well it's over. It does not matter how good of a person they are anymore. Life is the most precious thing you can lose. Now you're probably thinking "It's more likely that the murder victims were really scumbags than it is that they were good people on a bad streak" and to be sure, you're probably right. But with death, you better be 100% positive, as I doubt this shooter was.

My only point throughout the whole of these posts in this thread has been to emphasize that Cops, Judges, Lawyers, and Juries are best equipped to handle these subtleties and complexities. While the CJ system has flaws, vigilante justice is not a viable option and will only make things worse. This "they got what was comin to them" mentality is great in movies and comic books, however in a trigger happy gun totin' America, it's cancerous and will lead to far greater ills than good.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']So the guy with the shotgun is now the police (for going outside), the judge and jury (found them guilty and killed them) and the victim (because they were SUPPOSEDLY coming at him)/

You are really fucking stupid.

1. The 911 woman said stay in the house, the cops would be coming, and he would be safe in his house. The supposed robbers were never threatening him.
2. The man doesn't have the right to go outside and decide who is guilty of what.
3. This is the big one. The robbers are dead, so we are really going to take the word of a murder who hunted these two guys in the street? The robbers obvisously didn't go "We went closer to the guy that came out of his house screaming with a shotgun" because they were fucknig dead!

You are truely one of the dumbest people here.

All the guy had to do, if anything, was go outside and hit the guys with the end pf the shotgun until the cops showed up. This is why so many people make fun of the south.[/quote]

This coming from the one who cannot distinguish between a man's voice and a woman's voice, and cannot spell properly, is hilarious.

The dumbest thing he could've done was get within arm's reach or weapon's range (if any) of the robbers, telling them to freeze was the best option. It's their fault for not complying.

In all honesty, let's put you in the same situation and see what you do. Are you really going to approach them and attempt to take on two (possibly armed) men in physical combat? I very much doubt it. Also, take into account that Joe Horn is in his SIXTIES, he's not going to be able to hold out against one young man, let alone two. A gun is the best option for apprehension, and again, too bad for them since they tried to approach an armed man (That's what it is to be a dumbass, having an opinion is not).

Same goes for Horn if he was hurt or killed, too bad for him that it happened, but at least he'd earn some respect for trying to do something about it, instead of bitching and whining of how bad things are in this country and not doing anything.

~HotShotX
 
I've read a majority of this thread and I have to say that most of you guys flat out fuckin SICKEN me. I mean, if someone was in your home stealing your shit, and you knew a neighbor saw the robber, and did nothing, you would be bitching your head off. All you jackasses that say that the right to bear arms is out of date need a mother fucking reality check. Because evidently yours fucking bounced. Lets see just how you feel if you get robbed at gunpoint, knowing full god damn well that you COULD have defended yourself from someone who HAS a gun that doesn't give a flying fuck about said laws.
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']I've read a majority of this thread and I have to say that most of you guys flat out fuckin SICKEN me. I mean, if someone was in your home stealing your shit, and you knew a neighbor saw the robber, and did nothing, you would be bitching your head off.[/quote]

If they saw and didn't call the cops or do anything at all, I'd be pissed. If they saw and shot the guys close rage with a 12-gauge shotgun I'd ask what the hell is wrong with them.
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']I've read a majority of this thread and I have to say that most of you guys flat out fuckin SICKEN me. I mean, if someone was in your home stealing your shit, and you knew a neighbor saw the robber, and did nothing, you would be bitching your head off. All you jackasses that say that the right to bear arms is out of date need a mother fucking reality check. Because evidently yours fucking bounced. Lets see just how you feel if you get robbed at gunpoint, knowing full god damn well that you COULD have defended yourself from someone who HAS a gun that doesn't give a flying fuck about said laws.[/quote]Ah, I was waiting for this....

[quote name='HumanSnatcher']Lets see just how you feel if you get robbed at gunpoint, knowing full god damn well that you COULD have defended yourself from someone who HAS a gun that doesn't give a flying fuck about said laws.[/quote]"You deserve to die! Die and go to hell and burn!"
"Yeah? Well I hope you get raped! Twice! Then maybe you'll feel differently!"
 
[quote name='SpazX']If they saw and didn't call the cops or do anything at all, I'd be pissed. If they saw and shot the guys close rage with a 12-gauge shotgun I'd ask what the hell is wrong with them.[/quote]

Calling the cop is tantamount to not doing anything. When I used to live in the Ocean View area of Norfolk, youd be lucky if they bothered to come at all

Those who trade their freedom away for saftey deserve neither
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']Calling the cop is tantamount to not doing anything. When I used to live in the Ocean View area of Norfolk, youd be lucky if they bothered to come at all

Those who trade their freedom away for saftey deserve neither[/quote]

My bad, I guess whenever anybody breaks any laws we should just shoot them in the face with a shotgun.
 
[quote name='SpazX']My bad, I guess whenever anybody breaks any laws we should just shoot them in the face with a shotgun.[/quote]

Depends on the crime jackass.

And wow, could I lose anymore respect for CAGs
 
[quote name='SpazX']My bad, I guess whenever anybody breaks any laws we should just shoot them in the face with a shotgun.[/QUOTE]

Cause that's exactly what he said.

Oh wait, it isn't.
 
If you are not a citzen of Texas then you have no right to tell Texans how to legislate their own state. Have you ever heard of states rights? I've noticed that people who have never lived around a great deal of criminal activity don't think that it is that big of an issue.

Some of you older folks may remember the woman in New York City who was brutally raped in the courtyard of an apartment complex while many neighbors heard and were aware of the events taking place. Nobody called the cops; nobody helped.

So to everyone who would like to chastise the South and Southern values, which case is more of a tragedy? A criminal receiving his just desserts, or an innocent woman brutally raped while her unconcerned neighbors do nothing.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']If you are not a citzen of Texas then you have no right to tell Texans how to legislate their own state. Have you ever heard of states rights? I've noticed that people who have never lived around a great deal of criminal activity don't think that it is that big of an issue.

Some of you older folks may remember the woman in New York City who was brutally raped in the courtyard of an apartment complex while many neighbors heard and were aware of the events taking place. Nobody called the cops; nobody helped.

So to everyone who would like to chastise the South and Southern values, which case is more of a tragedy? A criminal receiving his just desserts, or an innocent woman brutally raped while her unconcerned neighbors do nothing.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)[/QUOTE]
No man, we make fun of the south because everyone sleeps with their sister or cousin.:) Anyway, while I certainly don't condone the actions of shooting them, it's not like they were innocent. I believe they took risks to break into the house, certainly physical harm to themselves was a distinct possibility. While it's sad that people had to lose their lives over "stuff", they knew what the risks could possibly be by taking part in risky illegal activity.
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']Calling the cop is tantamount to not doing anything. When I used to live in the Ocean View area of Norfolk, youd be lucky if they bothered to come at all

Those who trade their freedom away for saftey deserve neither[/QUOTE]


what sort of freedom was this guy trading away exactly since you were brazen enough to quote Franklin in your argument. This has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, since no one is question his right to have a gun, they are question his judgment.

oh and I think you meant "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I don't think playing your own personal most dangerous games is covered in the constitution. Then again I am not a constitutional scholar.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']what sort of freedom was this guy trading away exactly since you were brazen enough to quote Franklin in your argument. This has nothing to do with the right to bear arms, since no one is question his right to have a gun, they are question his judgment.

oh and I think you meant "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I don't think playing your own personal most dangerous games is covered in the constitution. Then again I am not a constitutional scholar.[/quote]

I'm through with this thread. It really needs to just be closed because its degenerated to mere mudslinging...

And Ikon, ever heard of paraphrasing...
 
I read through this whole thread and I think I have one thing we can all agree on:

Despite how you feel about what happened, I know of a street of houses in Texas that won't be getting broken into anytime soon.

Being a in Law Enforcement myself, I can honestly attest to Bmulligan's view of modern-day police mentality, as it is more focused on prevention and being a reactive force that a pro-active force. In other words, they would rather have community watch meetings and patrols to deter criminals from crime than try to catch burglars in the act; the former idea is much eaiser to implement than the latter.

The bottom line is, these blights on society (and for the record, I could give a flying fuck if they had 10 kids, had a bad childhood, etc.; they stopped being pitiable and started being criminals the minute they illegaly entered that house, end of story) were putting themselves in danger by commiting a crime in a state known for its love of lethal self-defense; if they weren't smart enough to consider that stealing other people's shit could end with someone stealing their life, then the only one to blame is themselves.

As for me, I keep a loaded shotgun (because my wife HATES guns, and all she has to do is aim around the corner and shoot if she is in danger), and my 9mm berretta by my bedside everynignt, just in case.

And I'm a cop.
 
[quote name='Veritas1204']The bottom line is, these blights on society (and for the record, I could give a flying fuck if they had 10 kids, had a bad childhood, etc.; they stopped being pitiable and started being criminals the minute they illegaly entered that house, end of story) were putting themselves in danger by commiting a crime in a state known for its love of lethal self-defense; if they weren't smart enough to consider that stealing other people's shit could end with someone stealing their life, then the only one to blame is themselves.

As for me, I keep a loaded shotgun (because my wife HATES guns, and all she has to do is aim around the corner and shoot if she is in danger), and my 9mm berretta by my bedside everynignt, just in case.

And I'm a cop.[/quote]

Amen to that. Also, thanks for serving the community (being a cop).

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='Veritas1204']I read through this whole thread and I think I have one thing we can all agree on:

Despite how you feel about what happened, I know of a street of houses in Texas that won't be getting broken into anytime soon.

Being a in Law Enforcement myself, I can honestly attest to Bmulligan's view of modern-day police mentality, as it is more focused on prevention and being a reactive force that a pro-active force. In other words, they would rather have community watch meetings and patrols to deter criminals from crime than try to catch burglars in the act; the former idea is much eaiser to implement than the latter.

The bottom line is, these blights on society (and for the record, I could give a flying fuck if they had 10 kids, had a bad childhood, etc.; they stopped being pitiable and started being criminals the minute they illegaly entered that house, end of story) were putting themselves in danger by commiting a crime in a state known for its love of lethal self-defense; if they weren't smart enough to consider that stealing other people's shit could end with someone stealing their life, then the only one to blame is themselves.

As for me, I keep a loaded shotgun (because my wife HATES guns, and all she has to do is aim around the corner and shoot if she is in danger), and my 9mm berretta by my bedside everynignt, just in case.

And I'm a cop.[/QUOTE]

Well since you're a cop, then surely you must be aware that (statistically speaking, meaning FACTS) homeowners that own guns are more likely to have them used against them than use them against others....right?

And has nobody in here learned that it is against the law (in every state) to risk death or serious bodily harm to protect property?

HumanSnatcher, if you want to misquote a quote and call it "paraphrasing" you just go ahead and do that. You're smart!

Veritas, no row of houses in Texas is any safer. Being in the CJ system yourself, surely you must know that deterrence does not work. (See. e.g. MykeVermin). Actually people are at much more of a risk now that they've seen someone take justice into their own hands than they would be if they left it to the pros (cops).

Moreover, werent the victims of this murder shot in the back?
 
Ahhh, I see what type of lawyer you are now. You're the piece of shit that will jump on a case where a robber breaks into someones home, injures himself in their home and has the balls to sue because he got injured.

Mods, will you please fucking close this thread...
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']
Mods, will you please fucking close this thread...[/quote]Aside from you calling people "pieces of shit", I haven't seen much worth closing this thread over...
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']Depends on the crime jackass.

And wow, could I lose anymore respect for CAGs[/quote]
How many crimes do you think should be punishable by death?

I'd assume murder, apparently also burglary. Robbery? That's an even worse crime than burglary really so I guess it's ok to kill someone who has done that.

Is it the stealing or the breaking and entering or the trespassing on someone else's property that made it justifiable to kill them? Or is it just that combination?
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']Ahhh, I see what type of lawyer you are now. You're the piece of shit that will jump on a case where a robber breaks into someones home, injures himself in their home and has the balls to sue because he got injured.

Mods, will you please fucking close this thread...[/QUOTE]


Seeing as how I just passed the bar in October I think its safe to say that I'm not sure what "type of lawyer" I am. There are all kinds of lawyers. I guess you're the type of ignorant person who actually thinks cases like the one you mentioned exist outside of the movies.

I LMAO that you whine to the mods to close the thread because...umm...why?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Aside from you calling people "pieces of shit", I haven't seen much worth closing this thread over...[/quote]

Agreed. The thread can close once we've had a discussion on the ouctome of this case. Aside from that, try to keep it civil. Depsite it being an internet forum, you CAN share your views without being a fuckwad. :)

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='SpazX']How many crimes do you think should be punishable by death?

I'd assume murder, apparently also burglary. Robbery? That's an even worse crime than burglary really so I guess it's ok to kill someone who has done that.

Is it the stealing or the breaking and entering or the trespassing on someone else's property that made it justifiable to kill them? Or is it just that combination?[/QUOTE]

Aiming a gun at and then shooting someone who is in the process of commiting a violent crime is a completely reasonable reaction while the crime threatens you/your property or someone else/someone else's property. There is clearly a difference between someone breaking and entering your home and say, fraud, or any other non-violent crime that is not putting you or anyone else in immediate danger.
 
I would rather have a gun in my hand than a cop on the phone.

The bottom line is that if these two selfish crooks had not been trespassing on private property and stealing from someone who worked hard for what they have, then they would not be pushing up daisies.

I have no sympathy for these crooks. Why do they deserve our respect when they show no respect for others?

How did this country become so backwards that we are actually defending the bad guys? They gave up their rights when they decided to commit an immoral and dispicable act.

I am just glad that we are reading a story about two dead home invaders, rather than one about a family slaughtered in their own home by two theifs.
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']

I am just glad that we are reading a story about two dead home invaders, rather than one about a family slaughtered in their own home by two theifs.[/quote]

Well said.
 
[quote name='evanft']Aiming a gun at and then shooting someone who is in the process of commiting a violent crime is a completely reasonable reaction while the crime threatens you/your property or someone else/someone else's property. There is clearly a difference between someone breaking and entering your home and say, fraud, or any other non-violent crime that is not putting you or anyone else in immediate danger.[/quote]

I don't think burglary counts as a violent crime. Had people been in the house and they were violent towards them, then it would be a violent crime, I guess technically robbery. If nobody is home then nobody is in immediate danger.

[quote name='JohnnyReb']How did this country become so backwards that we are actually defending the bad guys? They gave up their rights when they decided to commit an immoral and dispicable act.[/quote]

They gave up their right to freedom, not their right to life. That's why people are put in prison.
 
[quote name='SpazX'] That's why people are put in prison.[/quote]

Trust me, for a percentage of the prison population, thats not a punishment at all.
 
[quote name='opterasis']Trust me, for a percentage of the prison population, thats not a punishment at all.[/quote]

I'm not going to say that there aren't any problems with prisons, but the solution to problems with prisons isn't to kill people rather than send them to prison.
 
They gave up their right to freedom, not their right to life. That's why people are put in prison.
Click to expand...

Maybe this is true in a world of ideals, but in the real world of practicality, cricumstance and imperfection, and in Texas, it is not.
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']Maybe this is true in a world of ideals, but in the real world of practicality, cricumstance and imperfection, and in Texas, it is not.[/QUOTE]

So every crime should be death penalty applicable? Wanna cut down on drunk driving? Make the penalty for it death. There's enough people that are killed by drunk drivers every year to justify it.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']So every crime should be death penalty applicable? Wanna cut down on drunk driving? Make the penalty for it death. There's enough people that are killed by drunk drivers every year to justify it.[/QUOTE]

Depends on whether or not the drunk driver killed or injured anyone.

I feel that malicious intent should be repaid in kind.
 
I had a long reply written up, but it was lost, so I'll just say this: the law that allows deadly force to stop these crimes needs to be repealed. As the operator said, no property is worth shooting someone over.

Also, I'm not American, so I don't really understand the full breadth of the 2nd amendment and its applicability to this case. However, in the context of the constitution's time period, doesn't "bear arms" mean retain the ability to repel foreign tyrants?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']So every crime should be death penalty applicable? Wanna cut down on drunk driving? Make the penalty for it death. There's enough people that are killed by drunk drivers every year to justify it.[/quote]

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. And don't presume to make your words mine.

Like I said, the circumstance of the crime has everything to do with the outcome. These intruders were not executed nor were they subject to the death penalty. These miscreants were stopped from committing a vile and comtemptable crime.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Depends on whether or not the drunk driver killed or injured anyone.

I feel that malicious intent should be repaid in kind.[/QUOTE]

INTENT

I love that word. Do drunk drivers ever intend to kill people? Nope. Drunk drivers don't intend on hurting anyone when they get in their car. They have the potential for hurting people though so why should it make a difference?

Did these robbers intend to cause bodily harm on anyone? I dunno. You don't know, no one knows because Mr. Horn took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. In his mind he had convicted them before he had left his house, which is evident by him stating "I'm gonna kill 'em." Maybe these guys had the wrong address and were actually INTENDING to get their own property back from someone who had borrowed it without returning it. Sounds farfetched right? Well that's why we have a court system, to determine guilt, not to be determined by any old joe that has a gun.
 
[quote name='HumanSnatcher']I'm through with this thread. It really needs to just be closed because its degenerated to mere mudslinging...

And Ikon, ever heard of paraphrasing...[/QUOTE]


see but you paraphrased poorly, because u were mentioning freedom for safety, and the crux of the franklin quote was it wasnt even safety, it was temporary safety. There is a huge difference there.


Oh and for someone who is through with the thread, you sure like to keep posting.
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']Of course not, don't be ridiculous. And don't presume to make your words mine.

Like I said, the circumstance of the crime has everything to do with the outcome. These intruders were not executed nor were they subject to the death penalty. These miscreants were stopped from committing a vile and comtemptable crime.[/QUOTE]

What's ridiculous about trying to prevent thousands of deaths each year?
 
What is ridiculous? Saying that every crime should be punishable by death is ridiculous.

Drunk driving is not a valid comparison.


[quote name='RedvsBlue']So every crime should be death penalty applicable? Wanna cut down on drunk driving? Make the penalty for it death. There's enough people that are killed by drunk drivers every year to justify it.[/quote]
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']What is ridiculous? Saying that every crime should be punishable by death is ridiculous.

Drunk driving is not a valid comparison.[/QUOTE]

What isn't a valid comparison about it? It costs the lives of thousands of innocent people every year.
 
[quote name='Mike23']I had a long reply written up, but it was lost, so I'll just say this: the law that allows deadly force to stop these crimes needs to be repealed. As the operator said, no property is worth shooting someone over.

Also, I'm not American, so I don't really understand the full breadth of the 2nd amendment and its applicability to this case. However, in the context of the constitution's time period, doesn't "bear arms" mean retain the ability to repel foreign tyrants?[/quote]

Mike23, with all due respect, sir, I am sure that many criminals agree with you.

In regards to the 2nd ammendment, it was intended for private citzens to retain their God given right to protect themselves and their families. We are also allowed to create our own militia to protect ourselves from our own government, just like in the American Revolution. Our military does a fine job of protecting us from foriegn tyrants.

The soveriegn nation, The Republic of Texas, joined the United States of America in 1845 based on these rights and I'll be damned if I give them up now for the sake of two criminals.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']What isn't a valid comparison about it? It costs the lives of thousands of innocent people every year.[/quote]

This comparison is invalid because it is a logical fallacy.

It is a red herring in that you are attempting to steer the conversation away from the actual facts to a situation that is vaguely similar.

In other words, you are comparing apples to oranges.
 
[quote name='JohnnyReb']This comparison is invalid because it is a logical fallacy.

It is a red herring in that you are attempting to steer the conversation away from the actual facts to a situation that is vaguely similar.

In other words, you are comparing apples to oranges.[/QUOTE]

You stated that these guys gave up their right to life when they decided to commit their crime of burglary, a property crime.

My argument is that if criminals should have to give up their right to life for a property crime like burglary then why shouldn't someone who engages in drunk driving (a crime that costs thousands of innocent people their lives every year) be expected to do the same thing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top