MMA (UFC, Strikeforce, Bellator, Invicta, etc.) Discussion Thread -- Version II

Glad to see Condit back, he's been one of my favorite fighters since the WEC days. I think another 1 or 2 wins in impressive fashion puts him right back into title contention. I feel he could definitely capture the belt.

Didn't really watch the card except for main event and co-main event. Aside from Cain vs Werdum, there's not much else I'm excited for this month.
 
Wow...so Gustafsson gets the next title shot against Cormier. I definitely think that's the more interesting fight...but he had a real rough go of things against Rumble and seemed legitimately shaken by that fight. I guess maybe title shots are being given in "how close you came to beating Jones" order, haha. Maybe Vitor can get another chance! :lol:

Also, Weidman vs Rockhold is the right call. I'm excited to see how that goes down.

 
205 is a mess right now. Rightfully, Bader was next in line. Was that the most interesting match up and biggest draw? Not at all; But who else are you gonna give it to? Davis is at Bellator, Glover is coming off back to back loses, Rashad hasn't fought in almost 2 years, OSP is doing alright but nothing spectacular. Jon Jones messing up is the absolute worst thing that could have happened to 205. On the contrary, 170 became a hell of a lot more interesting once GSP was out of the picture.

I'm glad Rockhold is getting the shot. Jacare was rallying for it but honestly he hasn't had any big fights in the UFC. Give him Belfort or Machida and if he can get a win over either of them, impressive or not, he gets a shot. If Weidman can cross off Rockhold and Jacare, he's basically cleared the division.

At this point in time, 155 and 170 are the most interesting divisions. I can honestly say someone holding the belt for an extended period of time in either of those two divisions is gonna be virtually impossible. Heavyweight has been pretty weak for a while as well but I really see a great matchup between Werdum and Velasquez. I'm a Cain fan all day but I don't see it being a walk in the park for him.

 
I can't believe they gave t he title shot to Gustaf. Well, I can believe it beause Dana just decides who is the biggest draw and doesn't go by record, streaks, etc.

I understand when they threw Cormier in. It was short notice and he is a high level fighter, even though he was coming off a loss to Jones. Now the dust has settled, but they are still giving titleshots willy nilly. Gustaf lost to Jones, beat Manuwa (which isn't overly impressive) and then was flatlined by Rumble.

Bader's 4 fight win streak includes Davis (who finished Gustaf), OSP (who just KO'd Shogun), Calvacente, and Perosh. Even Bader's career has more A-level names on it. He may lose against some of them, but he beats some too - Machida, Rumble, Nog, etc.

This whole thing just makes the UFC look Mickey Mouse. They don't give the person who deserves it a shot, and instead gives it to the popular guy who is 1-2 in his last 3 fights.

At least I'm very happy with Weidman vs. Rockhold. I wouldn't have been too upset if Jacare got it, but Weidman was more deserving and has been tearing people up.

I don't think Heavyweight is overly weak, it is just that all the contenders keep knocking themselves off because Cain only fights once ever 24 months. The last time Cain fought someone who wasn't named Bigfoot or JDS was in 2010. If Cain was healthy and fought 2 or 3 times a year he could've already fought Werdum, Hunt, Travis Browne, Stipe Miocic, etc. Instead all these guys fight each other so it becomes hard to say if anyone deserves a titleshot.

As dominating as Cain has been, I 100% hope he loses because I don't want another year plus lay-off for the champion.

 
Hahaha...Joe Rogan is just apologizing during the entire Torres vs Hill fight. He's practically offering people a refund, lol. He's already called it a "half-guard battle", "the most boring thing to watch in MMA", and followed that up with "Annnd Big John is about to fall asleep so he stands them up." :lol:

 
Wow...Melendez had that fight and then gassed and gave it away. Good for Alvarez fighting through some dangerous spots, but Melendez would have probably taken that one if he didn't train with a bunch of lazy bums, haha. :lol:

 
I don't dislike Cain Velasquez, but I'm pulling for Werdum in this fight for two reasons:

1. I would like to see the HW belt actually defended more than once every two years.

2. I want to see Daniel Cormier cry.

 
Joe Rogan: "Cain doesn't get tired like other heavyweights."

Cain noticeably slower and breathing with his mouth open with 2:40 left in the 1st round...

Jesus Christ, Joe...stop trying to explain away your "greatest heavyweight ever" hyperbole with the altitude. The guy hasn't fought in two years and he ALWAYS gassed. He would just get big leads in his fights and then coast to an easy win. The difference here is Werdum is tagging him 

 
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AHAHAHAHA....and Cain's "go to" move is what loses it for him. Power double...instant tapout. See you in two years, Cain.

 
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Not as much of a Cain hater as you but I"m fine with him losing. He kinda looked like shit and I definitely don't like any champ who sits on the the shelf for as long as he did.

 
tylerh1701 said:
Not as much of a Cain hater as you but I"m fine with him losing. He kinda looked like shit and I definitely don't like any champ who sits on the the shelf for as long as he did.
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Well, before the fight, I only kind of wanted Werdum to win...but after the nutlicking Rogan gave Velasquez calling him the "greatest heavyweight ever"...completely discrediting guys like Fedor and Randy Couture, I really wanted to see him get his ass kicked. Even if Velasquez is the most talented ever, his career doesn't have the consistency and longevity to be putting him in that conversation.

And the altitude excuse makes no sense. If it was Velasquez's dream to fight in Mexico City...and he was so hurt that Werdum and Hunt did it first, how in the hell are you not prepared when fight day rolls around? What I saw from Cain tonight was a guy who is not a complete fighter and has plenty of work to do.

His defense and head movement were terrible. He looked like Lesnar or even God forbid, Kimbo Slice. He went balls out at Werdum for the first two minutes, and once that barrage was over, he had nothing. It basically proved why champions should be stripped for sitting out too long though...because by the time they come back, they're not the same fighter who won the belt to begin with.

Cain needs to earn his way back the same way Junior has to. Look at how many fights a guy like Arlovski has had to get through just to get back into contention. Take Cain and JDS off the pedestal and make them climb the ladder and actually improve as fighters.

 
I was happy with Werdum winning. I don't hold the Cain hype against UFC or Rogan because that is the name of the game. Fedor is the  HW goat. When Lesnar was champion - he was also the baddest man on the planet because he survived against Carwin and beat an ancient Couture.

I've never liked Cain's personality. I like JDS, Werdum, Arlovski, CroCop, Gonzaga and all the rest much more. The UFC trying to push his Mexican heritage is also annoying since he can't speak Spanish.

I don't know if ring rust or the elevation was a huge factor, but I can say 100% it is much easier to be a "cardio machine" when you are in control. When you are dominating someone in the clinch against the cage and everything is going your way you feel like you can on for years. Werdum wasn't having that and giving right back to him which sapped the energy right out of him. You saw the same thing with Cormier vs Jones. Jones looked much fresher at the end instead of Daniel "Embrace the Grind" Cormier.

I don't think it was necessarily a bad idea for Cain to take down Werdum. It was one of desperation because he was likely not going to make it to the end of the next round the way he was getting beat up on the feet. Did it work out for him? No, but standing up would've just led to him being laid out on the floor sometime in the next 5 minutes. So he was pretty much screwed no matter what he did at that point.

The best part about Werdum winning was all the smack talk Rockhold and Cormier had been talking to Werdum. All about the "fake belt" and how you have to beat the man to be the man. Well that took care of that.

I did feel bad that Cain had to try and speak in his broken Spanish at the end of the fight. The UFC's plan was for Cain to steamroll Werdum and then show off some of his new Spanish skills at the end. Instead he had to try and translate from English to Spanish after getting trounced. I did laugh at Werdum telling Joe to get that damn translator out of here after the fight. I'm not sure if it was on purpose, but it felt like one last dig at Cain for being what Werdum called a "fake Mexican".

 
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Even though I don't like Cain, the amount of people criticizing how quickly he tapped is ridiculous. I see the same thing with Mitrione from last week. This is on places like Sherdog or the UG. So many people who have no idea what they are talking about saying he should try to fight through it the very end. It is easy to say that when a 260 lb professional athlete isn't crushing your throat and neck while also trying to strangle you.

 
I didn't realize Cain couldn't speak spanish. I was at BWW so I couldn't hear him very well, would have loved to hear his broken Spanish though.

 
Oh, yeah. I totally agree about the takedown being the act of a desperate man. It was Cain's version of swinging for the fences. It just amused me how ready for it Werdum was. And that speaks to how quick the tapout came as well. Cain knows when somebody has him. He went for the takedown hoping Werdum wouldn't catch him clean...but he did. And Cormier wept. :lol:
 
The Kimbo vs Shamrock fight was everything I hoped it could be - which was poo.

It was like they were moving in slow motion and that awesome Shamrock take down. It was sad Shamrock couldn't finish the choke since it would've been nice for him to go out on a "positive" note. Bellator loves the freakshow fights. Get Royce in there next.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgv9W4LbIHw

I like Conor but seriously, put him in there with Mendes or Edgar and it will be a one sided fight. He definitely brings some dynamic striking to this fight but that karate stance is a field day for Aldo. He leaves that leg out there big time and Aldo is known for those brutal leg kicks. Conor has definitely brought some attention to 145 but honestly, I don't see him being the one. Regardless, I'm still looking forward to the fight but if Aldo happens to lose, he has the bruised rib to fall back on. I also like the fact Dana threw it out there that if Aldo can't fight there will be an interim belt between Mendes and Conor. Now that, is definitely one I would like to see.

 
Yeah sucks that Aldo is out, but the writing has been on the wall for a week.

Chad Mendes is probably my 2nd favorite UFC fighter, so this is even better for me. He'll look good wearing that belt.

Kind of unprecedented to make this for the interim title. Aldo certainly isn't the healthiest of fighters (hasn't had more than 2 fighter in one year since 2009) but it hasn't even been a year since his last defense and it doesn't sound like this injury is all that bad. Not that I'm complaining, I'd like to see an interim belt created about every 9 months if a champ can't fight, so I like the decision.

Thought I'm sure the decision is just based on the UFC wanted McGregor to be a champ so bad.

 
tylerh1701 said:
Yeah sucks that Aldo is out, but the writing has been on the wall for a week.
Chad Mendes is probably my 2nd favorite UFC fighter, so this is even better for me. He'll look good wearing that belt.

Kind of unprecedented to make this for the interim title. Aldo certainly isn't the healthiest of fighters (hasn't had more than 2 fighter in one year since 2009) but it hasn't even been a year since his last defense and it doesn't sound like this injury is all that bad. Not that I'm complaining, I'd like to see an interim belt created about every 9 months if a champ can't fight, so I like the decision.

Thought I'm sure the decision is just based on the UFC wanted McGregor to be a champ so bad.
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Well, hopefully this "we're not waiting" approach is more of a sign of a new attitude in the UFC regarding injuries, and less about hoping Conor wins. Either way, that card has been super hyped and Conor was doing the bulk of the promotional lifting with the tour and whatnot.

So, the fight should go on as planned, and an interim belt can be a wake up call for Aldo. Maybe if he hadn't been nursing his belt so much and not doing the company any favors (anti-Reebok talk), postponing the fight would have been an option.

Instead, this should show guys "get healthy and be active or we're moving on without you." As Cain just showed everybody, so what you're "the champ". It's hard to believe you're "the best" if you never fight.

Didn't they say if he missed, he'd be out until at least November though?
 
n8rockerasu said:
Well, hopefully this "we're not waiting" approach is more of a sign of a new attitude in the UFC regarding injuries, and less about hoping Conor wins. Either way, that card has been super hyped and Conor was doing the bulk of the promotional lifting with the tour and whatnot.

So, the fight should go on as planned, and an interim belt can be a wake up call for Aldo. Maybe if he hadn't been nursing his belt so much and not doing the company any favors (anti-Reebok talk), postponing the fight would have been an option.

Instead, this should show guys "get healthy and be active or we're moving on without you." As Cain just showed everybody, so what you're "the champ". It's hard to believe you're "the best" if you never fight.

Didn't they say if he missed, he'd be out until at least November though?
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I didn't hear about any return timetable, but you may be right. And I agree, I would love to see more of a "we're not waiting" approach from the UFC, even if it means we have more interim champs floating around.

 
Honestly, Mendes is a better test. Aldo has decent wrestling but really he was going to stand and trade. McGregor definitely has some great striking so I could have saw that going either way.

All said and done? Frankie gets screwed again. How Mendes is above him is beyond me. He had a great run for his second shot but he fell short, again.

Aldo's toughest fight for sure but the first time he faced Edgar it was super close. Edgar's wrestling is top notch now and I can honestly see him grinding Aldo.

With the current situation, Frankie stays on the sideline and waits til mid 2016 for a shot. If not, he gets back in there again and risks losing which in turn costs him the shot. He's screwed either way.
 
I agree that Edgar was more deserving of the shot than Mendes...but who knows what went on behind the scenes. Could have been a scheduling conflict, training issue, not wanting to take a risk on no notice, etc. Additionally, if you believe you're good enough to be the champion, you shouldn't be avoiding fights by worrying you'll screw up your title shot.

In that regard, I'd rather see Frankie just keep pace and take a fight when he's ready. Much like the man he just beat, Urijah Faber's last few title shots were short notice and/or rushed and those ended up being bigger wasted chances than had he just waited and taken a full camp, in my opinion.

I want to see Frankie win the belt at 145, become another two division UFC champion, and really solidify his legacy as much as anybody. But I want him to do it on his terms. If he keeps winning, he'll get a shot. If he doesn't...well, then I guess he wouldn't have been champ very long anyway.

 
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I dunno, Chad Mendes has never lost to anyone not named Jose Aldo. I've considered him the best fighter without a belt for a long time now. 

If you can't tell by the avatar, absolutely pulling for Mendes next weekend.

 
I thought that said Mendes for a second and I was gonna flip out, lol. Shame on Gilbert though, using the old "If I did take them I didn't know" excuse -_-

 
I thought that send Mendes for a minute, I was gonna flip out. Shame on Gilbert though, using the "If I did take them I didn't know" excuse. 1 year off is definitely gonna hurt him

 
Just saw about Melendez. Kind of surprised about him. I'll tell you, I LOVE the new suspension system though. This sends such a strong message about being serious about cleaning up the sport. It's going to send guys running scared from PEDs once they start seeing how easy it is to lose 1+ years off their career.

Fight legit or go do something else for a living. Love it.
 
Yeah, I really enjoyed that card. Some pretty fantastic finishes on the PPV. I'm glad Lawler won that one too. I don't know what it is about Rory. I just don't think he has it. He just comes across as so soft. Soft strikes, soft demeanor, and apparently soft bones too. He's great when he can just outpoint a guy, but his movement isn't good enough to get away when his opponent isn't willing to play that game. At 25, he needs to step it up if he really thinks he's ever going to ascend to being GSP's true successor.

And the Conor fight...wow. Conor's ground game sucks shit. I'm sorry. It was proven tonight without a doubt. Bad takedown defense and shitty jiu-jitsu. Mendes could have probably just sat there in his guard and smashed elbows for the rest of the fight. Conor wasn't getting off his back until the bell rang. I'm a huge fan of what Conor does, but those are gaping holes in his game that need immediate addressing before some podung Jake Shields'y lay-n-prayer ends up beating him.

I also really question Conor's future at 145. He's already talked about not being able to make the cut much longer...and with the new regulations coming in October, I just don't know how he's going to do it. Though, really...you could say similar things about Aldo. Maybe by the time they actually fight, it will be at 155...or hell, maybe 170, haha. :lol:

 
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what happened with mendes? looked straight up scared to trade with McGregor on their feet? did he just hit him harder than anyone chad has ever fought?
 
tylerh1701 said:
what happened with mendes? looked straight up scared to trade with McGregor on their feet? did he just hit him harder than anyone chad has ever fought?
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What I thought Conor did really well was cut off the Octagon. He was just looming over Chad and gave him nowhere to go. Conor's pace is really odd too. He doesn't really snap off strikes like a lot of the lighter weight fighters who just want to connect and get their hands back up (probably because with Conor's reach advantage, he has all day to avoid a counter).

I was surprised to see Conor treating Mendes almost exactly as he treated Siver though. He just walked him down and hit him. Whether it was a kick or a punch, he just got close and made his shots count. I feel like that approach must be intimidating as hell to just see somebody slowly and methodically suffocating your angles.

And with those body shots, it's like he was going straight for Chad's gas tank. Other than having "just stand there and fall over" takedown defense, I thought Conor's approach was great. But he still needs to check his arrogance and naivety and learn how to sprawl like Lawler did in the previous fight. Getting a win over Mendes is certainly impressive, but I still think Conor looked very beatable...and honestly, I think there's no way Frankie Edgar wasn't sitting there noticing the exact same thing.

 
Great night of fights. Feel bad Brown and Means didn't get the bonus, but the Lawler and Rory fight was awesome.

I don't like Rory's personality, but I was impressed that he was still coming forward in the 5th round. Find the picture of him in the corner at the start of the 5th round, he looks near death.

Connor looked good, but honestly it didn't clear up any questions about his grappling game. Mendes had two weeks notice, so that definitely didn't help his gas tank.

I still think Freddie Edgar is the biggest threat to Connor. He has awesome cardio and spent most of his career taking on the top 5 light weights like Maynard, Benson Henderson, and BJ Penn so he will be use to the reach disadvantage. Connor's stand up looked great obviously, but his grappling looks weak. His guard game was junk and he only got back to his feet because Chad went for the guillotine choke.

I'm sure Dana was having a stroke when Chad was on top and cut Connor pretty good with a few of those elbows.

I thought Connor asking Herb to stand them up was pretty funny. Herb was just like you gotta get yourself up.

 
Wow...so Season 22 of The Ultimate Fighter will be coached by Conor McGregor and Urijah Faber. That's pretty freaking awesome. Not sure what the usual coach's fight between them would mean though. Does Faber get a title shot at 145 after just losing to Edgar? Is is a non-title fight? Is Dana not even thinking about it because 99% of the time one of the damn coaches gets injured and they never fight anyway? lol.

Either way...I could see this having a "Ronda Effect" for Conor. I don't really see him being a great coach...and we already know Faber is a good coach and is really likable. I'm just not sure I can see guys buying into Conor's talk about ivory suits and just knowing how much better you are than your opponent.

Sure, it gives Conor a ton of TV exposure, but unless he's just massively on top of his PR game, I'm not sure that's a good thing. It worked out well when Chael coached against Jones...but Chael had been at this a lot longer and was basically a coach at his gym already. Not sure if this is a great move for the UFC's new golden goose.

 
n8rockerasu said:
Ah, ok. Didn't read the article. Just saw the headline. Well, that seems fairly pointless then. I guess they can talk an infinite amount of shit until they WANT to fight each other though, haha.
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They announced it on the TUF Finale tonight. During that Dana mentioned there was no fight. He said it just made sense to have McGregor coach the European fighters.

 
blueweltall said:
Damn, reading this makes me really feel bad for Macdonald:

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/07/159527after-watching-this-disturbing-gif-will-rory-macdonald-be-the-same-after-ufc-189
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Yeah...in retrospect, I'm really not sure how that fight wasn't stopped sooner. At the very least, call the doctor in to check the severity. If MacDonald didn't even know what year it was after the fight...at what point did he actually lose control of his mental faculties and was just fighting out of instinct and survival? As great as that fight was...it's also the exact kind of fight that is keeping MMA illegal in New York.

And as it's been said many times...refs have stopped fights before due to arms being broken in submission holds. But we don't see broken noses...that are continued to be pounded on, treated the same way. It's just weird.

 
I'm sure the next season of TuF will be a lot better than the most recent season. I was not too impressed with the over all season and different format switch . At one point the coaches and Dana pretty much said what was going to happen for the rest of the season/show. 

 
squishface said:
I'm sure the next season of TuF will be a lot better than the most recent season. I was not too impressed with the over all season and different format switch . At one point the coaches and Dana pretty much said what was going to happen for the rest of the season/show.
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Dana was interviewed at the end of the fights last night and mentioned how he thought this season sucked because the fighters did not go all out and that they would not be doing the team format again. I guess there were a couple more teams that were interested in a similar type season and he just ignored that mention altogether.

I thought the idea was good before the season started, but it ended up pretty awful.

 
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