Morality...

[quote name='Kayden']*yawn*.... Really... do you read at all? I didn't say it was legal. What I said is they are more or less bringing it upon themselves. I didn't say I'm Robin Hood. Also, I really don't see how you link paying inflated ebay prices to supporting the developer. Buying used games does nothing for the developer.

So... take a deep breath, calm down, extinguish your little flaming booties and actually read what I say.

I know, me bad, bad Kayden, bad! Copying games... intelectual property.. yadda yadda. I'm not saying I'm right, nor that its ok. I'm saying I wont pay $200 for a used game.

[/quote]

You still aren't facing the facts. We have laws protecting private property because it was seen as a very basic moral issue by the fiunders of this nation. Without security of property no other security could be assured. The laws are exact definitions for that moral stance.

It doesn't matter what the price is. You either pay it or do without. There is no middle ground for a toy, a luxury item. It makes no difference whether you are dealing with the IP owner or a reseller. In a seller's market the seller chooses the price.

In an earlier post you declared your poverty. How does this excuse anything? I've been poor more often than not in my life. Yet every game I ever wanted eventually turned up at a reasonable price. I'm talking $30 or less. I have a couple thousand games and only a handful of them cost me more than $20. All it took was patience. (Valkyrie Profile turned out to be much ado about nothing IMHO and I sold it for a profit. If a new release turned up for cheap I might give it another try but I've found that most rare games have a reason behind it. Their audience is rare, too.) If you cannot afford high priced luxury items, this isn't an excuse to grant yourself an exception from your normal rules and take it. If you can't afford it, work harder or learn how to perform a better paying job than you have now. If you're a kid and don't have an income, STFU. The world doesn't owe you games. If you're lusting after games with inflated prices you have too much time on your hands and need to work on school more or get a job.
 
[quote name='Kayden']
As for why I didn't buy Valkyrie Profile when it came out, I didn't know about it. My Target didn't carry much for games and I was only ~15. I didn't have credit cards nor would my mom let me use hers if she had one. I didn't know of it, nor did I have a means to attain it. Is that a good enough reason?
[/quote]

Wow. No offense, but, um, no. Your mom wouldn't buy you something if you gave her the money? I assume you are older than 15 now. Now you can buy the game. There's lot ot stuff out there that I could buy now, that I couldn;t when I was 15, that would cost more now.

Regarding looking for deals: If a seller asks a price, and the buyer is willing to pay the price, there's no issue. Taking advantage of glitches or price errors, that's something else.

I have an emulator on my PC. I have ROMs for Sega games I have upstairs. More convenient to play on the PC [save state is excellent.]. Totally legal, and moral.
 
Speaking of basic freedoms its people like you that make me regret the First...

Yes, I COPIED A GAME!

However, I have that very game on order as we speak. I'm not saying that I'm right, or I'm better, or more correct. I want to play the game, and I want to own it. For rareties such as this I don't really care if they happen at the same time, just so long as they both happen.

I didn't copy the game with the sole intented to leave it at that and not buy the game. I copied the game so I could 1] try it out to see if I liked it (if I didnt, I generally destroy them on the spot) 2] Have the game to play before I could own a retail copy and 3] Leave my copy sealled upon attaining it.

If I recall correctly, it is perfectly legal to have copies/roms/backups for a period of no more than 24 hours unless you own the original medium.

Do I have it for more than 24 hours? Yes... but I also have the game coming to me. Does that make it peachy? No, but is it a damnable sin? Not really... I'm not making hundreds of copies of games to sell on the street. I have a single copy of a game I want to play until I get the real deal. Look out America's Most Wanted... here comes Kayden. Not only did he copy a playstation game he will shortly own... but he also removed the tag off a matress!

Big fucking Deal.

I'm not saying my income is justification for anything. Your knowledge of intelectual property doesn't justify you being a prick.

I say I'm poor because I'm a recent college grad and I'm between jobs, I'm not eating dirt and it is said more in jest.

[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Kayden']*yawn*.... Really... do you read at all? I didn't say it was legal. What I said is they are more or less bringing it upon themselves. I didn't say I'm Robin Hood. Also, I really don't see how you link paying inflated ebay prices to supporting the developer. Buying used games does nothing for the developer.

So... take a deep breath, calm down, extinguish your little flaming booties and actually read what I say.

I know, me bad, bad Kayden, bad! Copying games... intelectual property.. yadda yadda. I'm not saying I'm right, nor that its ok. I'm saying I wont pay $200 for a used game.

[/quote]

You still aren't facing the facts. We have laws protecting private property because it was seen as a very basic moral issue by the fiunders of this nation. Without security of property no other security could be assured. The laws are exact definitions for that moral stance.

It doesn't matter what the price is. You either pay it or do without. There is no middle ground for a toy, a luxury item. It makes no difference whether you are dealing with the IP owner or a reseller. In a seller's market the seller chooses the price.

In an earlier post you declared your poverty. How does this excuse anything? I've been poor more often than not in my life. Yet every game I ever wanted eventually turned up at a reasonable price. I'm talking $30 or less. I have a couple thousand games and only a handful of them cost me more than $20. All it took was patience. (Valkyrie Profile turned out to be much ado about nothing IMHO and I sold it for a profit. If a new release turned up for cheap I might give it another try but I've found that most rare games have a reason behind it. Their audience is rare, too.) If you cannot afford high priced luxury items, this isn't an excuse to grant yourself an exception from your normal rules and take it. If you can't afford it, work harder or learn how to perform a better paying job than you have now. If you're a kid and don't have an income, STFU. The world doesn't owe you games. If you're lusting after games with inflated prices you have too much time on your hands and need to work on school more or get a job.[/quote]
 
[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='dtcarson']
Did I ever say I was better than everyone else? Thank you for inferring such, but I stated no such thing.[/quote]

That reminds me... Did I say that? I hope I did, because I want you all to know it! :lol:

As for why I didn't buy Valkyrie Profile when it came out, I didn't know about it. My Target didn't carry much for games and I was only ~15. I didn't have credit cards nor would my mom let me use hers if she had one. I didn't know of it, nor did I have a means to attain it. Is that a good enough reason?

Solid or not, epobirs's arguement is irrelavent, presumptuous and a tad offensive. Name calling and just a general badgering attitude. Also, no one said we were legally able to copy games... Hes on a tyraid whipping a dead horse about something we've already established. He's sitting in the corner screaming the sky is blue while we're trying to debate how hurricanes form.[/quote]

THe fact that your spelling is so inept suggest you need to spend less time playing games, regardless of how they're obtained. I'm supposedly whipping a dead horse but you're continuing to make the same insupportable arguments. You did something you plainly knew was wrong and then hd the nerve to be taken aback when the people you asked to verify that this was wrong said yes, it was. And I'm offensive?

And no, it's not a good enough reason. Not remotely. It's just more situational ethics. Were you illiterate at 15? The game was widely reviewed and previewed in magazines, and most mail order outlets will accept money orders. Your excuse comes down to you not paying attention at the time. How many other items of liited supply from the year 200 do you feel entitled to steal?
 
A good enough reason to not buy the game, not to pirate it now =P

My mom was weird like that... she didn't want to give out info on the intrawebnet deallie... Even when I had the money on hand she would do it because they'd steal my everything...

Anyways... Yes, I'm 20 now, and guess what? I am buying the game! However, I'm still not paying $200. I'm paying the same $40 on Amazon that everyone else is.

[quote name='dtcarson'][quote name='Kayden']
As for why I didn't buy Valkyrie Profile when it came out, I didn't know about it. My Target didn't carry much for games and I was only ~15. I didn't have credit cards nor would my mom let me use hers if she had one. I didn't know of it, nor did I have a means to attain it. Is that a good enough reason?
[/quote]

Wow. No offense, but, um, no. Your mom wouldn't buy you something if you gave her the money? I assume you are older than 15 now. Now you can buy the game. There's lot ot stuff out there that I could buy now, that I couldn;t when I was 15, that would cost more now.

Regarding looking for deals: If a seller asks a price, and the buyer is willing to pay the price, there's no issue. Taking advantage of glitches or price errors, that's something else.

I have an emulator on my PC. I have ROMs for Sega games I have upstairs. More convenient to play on the PC [save state is excellent.]. Totally legal, and moral.[/quote]
 
[quote name='Kayden']Speaking of basic freedoms its people like you that make me regret the First...

Yes, I COPIED A GAME!

However, I have that very game on order as we speak. I'm not saying that I'm right, or I'm better, or more correct. I want to play the game, and I want to own it. For rareties such as this I don't really care if they happen at the same time, just so long as they both happen.

I didn't copy the game with the sole intented to leave it at that and not buy the game. I copied the game so I could 1] try it out to see if I liked it (if I didnt, I generally destroy them on the spot) 2] Have the game to play before I could own a retail copy and 3] Leave my copy sealled upon attaining it.

If I recall correctly, it is perfectly legal to have copies/roms/backups for a period of no more than 24 hours unless you own the original medium.

Do I have it for more than 24 hours? Yes... but I also have the game coming to me. Does that make it peachy? No, but is it a damnable sin? Not really... I'm not making hundreds of copies of games to sell on the street. I have a single copy of a game I want to play until I get the real deal. Look out America's Most Wanted... here comes Kayden. Not only did he copy a playstation game he will shortly own... but he also removed the tag off a matress!

Big shaq-fuing Deal.

I'm not saying my income is justification for anything. Your knowledge of intelectual property doesn't justify you being a prick.

I say I'm poor because I'm a recent college grad and I'm between jobs, I'm not eating dirt and it is said more in jest.[/quote]

Somebody is forgetting who raised this question in the first place. You're getting honestly told what you already knew was true and that makes me the bad guy? Do we have acknowledgement or just whining?

No, it is not legal to copy a product for 24 hours. Whoever told you that was just peddling a rationale for piracy. On this basis it would be alright to obtain copies of virtually all movies on DVD just so long as you don't plan to watch them repeatedly.

As for trying out games before buying, there are countless sources of opinions you can consult and outlets that rent games, often with the option to apply your fee to purchasing the game if you like it.

If your poverty isn't an attempt at justification on your part, why did you bring it up? What other possible interpretation was there?

If you've already purchased the game your claim makes even less sense. Are you that much a slave to anticipation? That is kind of sad.
 
[quote name='Kayden']A good enough reason to not buy the game, not to pirate it now =P

My mom was weird like that... she didn't want to give out info on the intrawebnet deallie... Even when I had the money on hand she would do it because they'd steal my everything...

Anyways... Yes, I'm 20 now, and guess what? I am buying the game! However, I'm still not paying $200. I'm paying the same $40 on Amazon that everyone else is.

[/quote]

So you found a decent price on the game but you're still whining about other people paying higher? Why do you care?
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='dtcarson']
Did I ever say I was better than everyone else? Thank you for inferring such, but I stated no such thing.[/quote]

That reminds me... Did I say that? I hope I did, because I want you all to know it! :lol:

As for why I didn't buy Valkyrie Profile when it came out, I didn't know about it. My Target didn't carry much for games and I was only ~15. I didn't have credit cards nor would my mom let me use hers if she had one. I didn't know of it, nor did I have a means to attain it. Is that a good enough reason?

Solid or not, epobirs's arguement is irrelavent, presumptuous and a tad offensive. Name calling and just a general badgering attitude. Also, no one said we were legally able to copy games... Hes on a tyraid whipping a dead horse about something we've already established. He's sitting in the corner screaming the sky is blue while we're trying to debate how hurricanes form.[/quote]

THe fact that your spelling is so inept suggest you need to spend less time playing games, regardless of how they're obtained. I'm supposedly whipping a dead horse but you're continuing to make the same insupportable arguments. You did something you plainly knew was wrong and then hd the nerve to be taken aback when the people you asked to verify that this was wrong said yes, it was. And I'm offensive?

And no, it's not a good enough reason. Not remotely. It's just more situational ethics. Were you illiterate at 15? The game was widely reviewed and previewed in magazines, and most mail order outlets will accept money orders. Your excuse comes down to you not paying attention at the time. How many other items of liited supply from the year 200 do you feel entitled to steal?[/quote]

The year 200? I'll let that slide... Anyways...

The question was: Why didn't you pick up the game when it was offered retail?
My answer was: As for why I didn't buy Valkyrie Profile when it came out, I didn't know about it. My Target didn't carry much for games and I was only ~15. I didn't have credit cards nor would my mom let me use hers if she had one. I didn't know of it, nor did I have a means to attain it. Is that a good enough reason?

I didn't give that as my reason for pirating the game. So I was a poorly informed consumer when I was 15... point? Did you know every thing there was to know about every game coming out? As for my literacy, yes I was quite able to read you arrogant prick. I just couldn't afford all the magazines it was being reviewed in, nor did I frequent many review sites.

Oh wow... insulting my spelling... I think thats the last line of defense for trolls and flamers. So what? Spelling isn't my strongest point when I'm typing 50 words per minute. Look at your FIrst SEntance. NOone IS PErfect. HEy, I can INsuLt TYpoS TOOoO!

How am I making UNSUPPORTABLE arguments? To what are you even refering? The fact that I have the game on order? Do you want to see the email Amazon sent me? How about a screen capture? Do you claim that me saying I don't have a problem with copying this game and unsupportable arguement?

I, at no point, was surprised when people said they thought it was wrong. Nor was I seeking any sort of affirmation as to its legality or correctness. I know copying games is illegal, I however, was asking what people thought about copying a rare out of print game- not movies, new games or anything else.

Finally, yes, you are offensive. Your entire tone is belittling and belligerant. You can't seem to argue intelligently, so you argue loudly and abusively. Want proof? How many times have you insulted me? Either in form of character or purely name calling.

Not that I really care if my response appeases your righteousness... but if it doesn't you can shove it all the same.
 
[quote name='epobirs']
Somebody is forgetting who raised this question in the first place. You're getting honestly told what you already knew was true and that makes me the bad guy? Do we have acknowledgement or just whining?
[/quote]

I asked about what others considered to be the MORAL issues. You're blugeoning us forcefully with the legalities repeatedly... I already acknowledged the fact that you're right about it being illegal, what you are missing is the fact that I don't care.

[quote name='epobirs']
No, it is not legal to copy a product for 24 hours. Whoever told you that was just peddling a rationale for piracy. On this basis it would be alright to obtain copies of virtually all movies on DVD just so long as you don't plan to watch them repeatedly. [/quote]

Sorry, just like the rest of the human race, I only know what I hear and what I see. No one told me different.

[quote name='epobirs']
As for trying out games before buying, there are countless sources of opinions you can consult and outlets that rent games, often with the option to apply your fee to purchasing the game if you like it.
[/quote]


You forget... I'm cheap. $8 to rent a game? Thats half the price I usually pay to own! Additionally, demos are too limited. I've played demos I loved and then hated the full game.


[quote name='epobirs']
If your poverty isn't an attempt at justification on your part, why did you bring it up? What other possible interpretation was there? [/quote]

I sense a patern of me needing to repeat myself to you. IT WAS SAID AS A JOKE! I'm not well off, but I'm not dumpster diving.

[quote name='epobirs']
If you've already purchased the game your claim makes even less sense. Are you that much a slave to anticipation? That is kind of sad.[/quote]

The fact that you're so vendictive about this is sad. Even after I acknowledge your opinion you still try to beat me senseless with it.
Firstly, I had the game copied about a month before I ordered it. I heard everyone here rave about it and decided I should pick it up. I looked at ebay and shit myself... Then I looked around and saw it was pretty rare. So i pirated it with the intent of purchasing it when I was able to get it at a reasonable price. Again, not to say it was legal, but I have no moral qualms with it seeing how I had every intent to buy it when I could. I can't control you believing me, but if I'm lying it's my soul, so why do you care? Even if I decided to pirate it after I bought it, it still makes perfect sense. I can play the game, have fun, legally own it and best of all, leave it sealed... Jez... I didn't think I was being overly cryptic. What's wrong with anticipation? Isn't it a good thing to have things to look forward to in life? Some people birdwatch... they watch tapes of the birds... they read books on the birds... Are they pathetic for being excited about actually getting to see the bird?



~~~~
Why do I care what others pay for the game?
Why do you care if I copy a game?

I don't care. The question wasn't "Why are you stupid enough to pay 200 for a game?"

I was just wondering what other people thought of copying rare games that are hard to aquire at a reasonable price.

In addition, there are other games that I don't have that cost a lot of money that I'd like. I didn't post this with any game in mind. I started using Suikoden II as a place holder, but then went to Valkyrie Profile because it is relavant to the copied rare game issue.... alteast for me.
 
[quote name='Kayden']I asked about what others considered to be the MORAL issues. You're blugeoning us forcefully with the legalities repeatedly... I already acknowledged the fact that you're right about it being illegal, what you are missing is the fact that I don't care.[/quote]

So in other words, you know it's illegal, you posted the topic knowing it's illegal, and in essence, wanted to know if others thought an illegal activity was moral? That's a bit foolish, and not what your very first post indicated.

[quote name='Kayden']Sorry, just like the rest of the human race, I only know what I hear and what I see. No one told me different.[/quote]

You should have read the copyright laws. I'd take laws on the books over some warez site any day of the week. Like many members of the human race, you might suffer from 'selective memory.'

[quote name='Kayden']You forget... I'm cheap. $8 to rent a game? Thats half the price I usually pay to own! Additionally, demos are too limited. I've played demos I loved and then hated the full game.[/quote]

Using this logic, why should you ever pay money for a game?

[quote name='Kayden']The fact that you're so vendictive about this is sad. Even after I acknowledge your opinion you still try to beat me senseless with it.[/quote]

I believe it's 'vindictive,' and I don't believe that's what inspired epobirs to post. He generally knows his stuff, as evidenced by many other posts he's made. You seem to be taking it personally that he has a view diametrically opposed to yours, and that never ends well. Not on internet message boards at least.

[quote name='Kayden']Why do you care if I copy a game?[/quote]

Because those that argue against piracy have a pretty good argument that piracy, in the end, hurts everyone, both the company that is pirated from and the regular consumers willing to pony up the dough for a normal transaction. Just ask punqsux.

[quote name='Kayden']I was just wondering what other people thought of copying rare games that are hard to aquire at a reasonable price.[/quote]

And that's exactly what you got, people's thoughts on copying, better known as pirating. What's the problem? It always inspires strong opinions, especially on CAG. Always will, I'd wager.

Just a heads up, don't turn into one of the internet assholes who takes every opinion that's not his as a personal insult. I see the beginnings of that affliction, but you can fight it, Bayou Billy! AMERICA STILL NEEDS YOUR HELP!
 
Point 1: Rhapsody had(has) some of the worst music I have ever heard.

Point 2: Asking if it's "ok" to bootleg old games rather than paying $200+ for them on a site called "Cheapassgamer" is akin to asking if masturbation is immoral on a porno messageboard. You'll get a few that know it's not the right direction, but aren't perfect and have done it before. However, for the most part, you get the people who want you to do it and do it often which brings me to

Point 3: I have SNES Roms on my computer, and I've burned a couple of cds before. I'm not trying to sugar-coat it or mask what it is. I don't have the cash, so I downloaded them. My problem is the fact that most of them are poor, poor transfers and end up being a mockery of the original version. Once I get the cahs, I'll proabbaly end up buying them, but then again, maybe not.

In closing, I find myself to be quite hypocritical in this situation. I have SNES roms, and a few burned cds, yet I hate it when people pirate new gen games and consistently burn cds. That's just the way it is.
 
[quote name='PsyClerk']So in other words, you know it's illegal, you posted the topic knowing it's illegal, and in essence, wanted to know if others thought an illegal activity was moral? That's a bit foolish, and not what your very first post indicated.[/quote]

I just wanted to pop back in to say that illegal =/= immoral. Just because something is against the law in this country doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Remember prohibition?
 
[quote name='PsyClerk']I asked about what others considered to be the MORAL issues. You're blugeoning us forcefully with the legalities repeatedly... I already acknowledged the fact that you're right about it being illegal, what you are missing is the fact that I don't care.

So in other words, you know it's illegal, you posted the topic knowing it's illegal, and in essence, wanted to know if others thought an illegal activity was moral? That's a bit foolish, and not what your very first post indicated.[/quote]

Well... the tittle is Morality... :roll:
Abortion is legal... is it moral? Legal and moral are not the same, just similar.

[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='Kayden']Sorry, just like the rest of the human race, I only know what I hear and what I see. No one told me different.[/quote]

You should have read the copyright laws. I'd take laws on the books over some warez site any day of the week. Like many members of the human race, you might suffer from 'selective memory.' [/quote]

True for the most part... I just really hate legalese and fine print. :x
Not that its an excuse... I'm really just lazy.

[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='Kayden']You forget... I'm cheap. $8 to rent a game? Thats half the price I usually pay to own! Additionally, demos are too limited. I've played demos I loved and then hated the full game.[/quote]

Using this logic, why should you ever pay money for a game? [/quote]
Because I like owning the game... Paying half the game to try it for a week just isn't fiscally sound.

[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='Kayden']The fact that you're so vendictive about this is sad. Even after I acknowledge your opinion you still try to beat me senseless with it.[/quote]

I believe it's 'vindictive,' and I don't believe that's what inspired epobirs to post. He generally knows his stuff, as evidenced by many other posts he's made. You seem to be taking it personally that he has a view diametrically opposed to yours, and that never ends well. Not on internet message boards at least. [/quote]

Yes, my bad-vindictive. So insulting my hasty spelling and incinuating I am/was illiterate isn't a personal attack? His entire tone felt very belittling and personalized.

[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='Kayden']Why do you care if I copy a game?[/quote]

Because those that argue against piracy have a pretty good argument that piracy, in the end, hurts everyone, both the company that is pirated from and the regular consumers willing to pony up the dough for a normal transaction. Just ask punqsux.[/quote]

Piracy in the sense that take what ever you want when ever you can... yes, very damaging. I'm talking about the whole abandonware aspect of it. I'm not saying lets pirate Madden 2005 because its cheaper. The games have been out for 5-10+ years and the chances of rereleases are minimal. Just because it does happen in Japan doesn't mean it will happen stateside. They get A LOT of stuff we don't. What I'm wondering is who does it hurt when you make a copy of a game that the original maker doesn't even offer? Besides ebay resellers, I honestly can't tell. So far, no one can give a level headed and fair response. If everyone on this site had a pirate copy of... Croc, who would that hurt? Its a $2 game I wouldn't take if it was free. What damage would it do? Can anyone give me an answer? It has no resale value, no collectors value, and its out of print.

[quote name='PsyClerk'][quote name='Kayden']I was just wondering what other people thought of copying rare games that are hard to aquire at a reasonable price.[/quote]

And that's exactly what you got, people's thoughts on copying, better known as pirating. What's the problem? It always inspires strong opinions, especially on CAG. Always will, I'd wager.

Just a heads up, don't turn into one of the internet assholes who takes every opinion that's not his as a personal insult. I see the beginnings of that affliction, but you can fight it, Bayou Billy! AMERICA STILL NEEDS YOUR HELP![/quote]

My problem is that epo came out really harshly. I thought I civily commented I was taking his posts personally and he offered no retraction. I just thought he was the kind that could offer his opinion, but had to force his opinion.

And I don't take posts personally unless I feel they're aimed at me. To me, his tone was very condesending.

P.S.... Bayou Billy was such a crap game! :lol: The one time I beat the driving part I lost on the boss and never played again.

P.P.S. Thanks, I appreciate you being level and objective.
 
I got no beef with anyone that emulates or plays backups of games. Let them do what they want.

As for myself, I think it's fair game to backup/mod/emulate any older stuff. Basically if the company isn't selling it new anymore then I have no qualms about buying a mod chip or downloading an emulator to play something rather then dropping big time cash on ebay.

Unfortunately for my pocketbook I do like to collect stuff from PS1 on so I don't have any mods/emulators for any of that. I pretty much refuse to collect old cartridge stuff due to their batteries eventually failing and I also refuse to pay the insane prices for Saturn stuff.
 
[quote name='Kayden']Well... the tittle is Morality... :roll:
Abortion is legal... is it moral? Legal and moral are not the same, just similar.[/quote]

I'm aware legal and moral are two different things. However, it's long been accepted on many web forums, including CAG, that pirating and emulation are generally Bad Things not to be spoken of except in very general discussion (I'm surprised this thread has lasted this long). Post a link to a site or ebay auction selling copies of games, or a link to a warez site offering ROMs. See how quickly it will be moderated. In other words, the answer to your question should be obvious.

[quote name='Kayden']Because I like owning the game... Paying half the game to try it for a week just isn't fiscally sound.[/quote]

All financial transactions come with risk. You might pay $1 for a double cheeseburger at McDonalds, and end up not eating most of it because you find it repulsive. You can't expect your money back there. You might pay $8 to see Alone in the Dark and walk out when Tara Reid opens her mouth. The theater won't refund your money. You could always download the movie and see it for free, but there's that piracy thing again.

[quote name='Kayden']Yes, my bad-vindictive. So insulting my hasty spelling and incinuating I am/was illiterate isn't a personal attack? His entire tone felt very belittling and personalized. [/quote]

I think part of that (which believe me...on CAG it could be a LOT worse) came from your apparent refusal to accept any of the arguments put forth. It's one thing to refute an argument, still another to simply say "no you're wrong" and offer no other reason.

Of course, you do know that you can ignore those parts that you feel are insulting or attacking you personally, right? Then again, skimming earlier posts, you weren't exactly Mr. Congeniality. (no relation to the Sandra Bullock vehicle of a similar name)

[quote name='Kayden']Piracy in the sense that take what ever you want when ever you can... yes, very damaging. I'm talking about the whole abandonware aspect of it. I'm not saying lets pirate Madden 2005 because its cheaper. The games have been out for 5-10+ years and the chances of rereleases are minimal. Just because it does happen in Japan doesn't mean it will happen stateside. They get A LOT of stuff we don't. What I'm wondering is who does it hurt when you make a copy of a game that the original maker doesn't even offer? Besides ebay resellers, I honestly can't tell. So far, no one can give a level headed and fair response. If everyone on this site had a pirate copy of... Croc, who would that hurt? Its a $2 game I wouldn't take if it was free. What damage would it do? Can anyone give me an answer? It has no resale value, no collectors value, and its out of print.[/quote]

If you re-read the thread, I gave nearly the same argument in my first post. And I haven't been satsified with an answer yet either.

[quote name='Kayden']My problem is that epo came out really harshly. I thought I civily commented I was taking his posts personally and he offered no retraction. I just thought he was the kind that could offer his opinion, but had to force his opinion.

And I don't take posts personally unless I feel they're aimed at me. To me, his tone was very condesending.[/quote]

I think epobirs might come off that way simply because he knows assloads of stuff and has a lot of experience. In his defense, however, it seems to me that you fanned the flames first. Maybe not a full on DenisDFat attack, but it was enough. Always best to just ignore stuff like that and focus on the issue being discussed (or attempting to be discussed).

Also be aware that you will not likely change anyone's mind. There are two billion examples of this on the Vs forum.
 
*sigh*... It's not like it really matters at this point. I could say he started it.. but even if he did it would make me look juvenille all the same. So... screw it.
"Arguing online is like running in the special olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded."
 
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