My friend overdosed last night.

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[quote name='Punk_Raven']lol stfu u fukkin crak head



Or we could create some substances that said people would get addicted to that would eventually kill them, and sell them to them to make money.[/QUOTE]


aren't you in high school? You really should get back to jerking off to the sears catalog....


[quote name='Blitz']
Hopefully they start with you. [/quote]


I dunno...mental midgets are pretty low on the totem pole...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't think one is ever "not" a junkie. Like alcoholism, or giving up smoking - it's something that tempts you to return to damn near the rest of your life. I'm thrilled, honestly, that you've been clean for a number of weeks - but that's the first step on a very long and difficult journey to a clean lifestyle.

Forgive me if I'm not prepared to consider you truly clean yet. That's strictly my opinion, and I don't want to belittle your accomplishment. But I do feel that the hardest work in staying clean is still in front of you, and will remain there for some time yet. If your most recent drug use is a few weeks back, and you are currently engaged in a battle to remain clean, then it most certainly is "present behavior." I look forward to you letting us know of your continued progress in staying clean.[/quote]

See here's my problem with what you said. It's not your intention, it's the way you go about it. You remind me of NA philosophy. It's as if each addict is inevitably intertwined in an unwinable battle of good (desire, will, positive cognition towards staying clean) and evil (drug temptation). I don't feel that way. I feel completely neutral when it comes to the ethical ramifications of either my use or non-use. I think when it comes to drug use.. consequences matter. If your drug use creates problems, stop. If not, do as you please. You say you don't consider me completely clean? I don't care. I feel the same as I did a week ago, two weeks ago, and three weeks ago. My use will not depend on where I am on my "journey" to holy ritcheous sobreity, but will depend on whether I feel like doing drugs or not.

One more thing.. I'm studying addiction theory right now.. and I'm about to graduate and start my masters work. I think one of the biggest problems in addiction treatment today is the lack of proper tailoring of treatment to specific personality types. In almost every other field of treatment, shrinks try to match up personality/demographic data to a treatment type.. but with addiction it's either the NA way or no way. That's bullshit. Not every person needs to be patronized with the "higher power" BS.
 
[quote name='Apossum']aren't you in high school? You really should get back to jerking off to the sears catalog....

.[/quote]


Ha ha.

I'm on your side. I was trying to prove how some people can be exploited. You'd realize that if you got off of your dick shaped high horse.
 
I wish she died. And if you ever use again I hope it is your last. For eternity if you get my meaning. Drug addicts are scum of the earth.
 
[quote name='Punk_Raven']Ha ha.

I'm on your side. I was trying to prove how some people can be exploited. You'd realize that if you got off of your dick shaped high horse.[/QUOTE]


actually all you did was prove that you can take the "haha, I was just joking" route on a serious topic. congrats!
 
yeah, don't take it lightly. my old roomate OD'ed and died a few years ago from heroin (months after i had stopped living with him), 22 years old. tell your friend she's a fucking moron and help her fix her life.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'] Is using heroin a bad idea? Yep; so is binge drinking, driving under the influence, smoking cigarettes, defending the PS3 on CAG, going to Church on Sundays, and eating too much bacon. [/QUOTE]

i love ya myke, but you had me until the "my two cents" comment.


as for the op, well he sucks, reasons have already be stated.
 
[quote name='Apossum']actually all you did was prove that you can take the "haha, I was just joking" route on a serious topic. congrats![/QUOTE]

HA! You of all people. I can't count the number of times you've told a shitty joke or took a stab at someone than pulled the "Cant'cha take a joke? Serious business" bullshit after.

But, of course, all is well when Apossum does it
or when it doesn't involve a dead relative, right?
 
[quote name='Apossum']actually all you did was prove that you can take the "haha, I was just joking" route on a serious topic. congrats![/quote]
Oh fuck you.

Seriously. You didn't understand where I was going when I said that, so I explained it to you. It was as much a joke as your comment was that was agreeing with Blitz. You were being serious but not really. You were trying to prove a point.

But whatever.

Continue on with this shit topic.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']I wish she died. And if you ever use again I hope it is your last. For eternity if you get my meaning. Drug addicts are scum of the earth.[/quote]

Wishing she died that could come back to haunt you. You should't wish death or anything upon anyone besides you don't even know her... I feel sorry for the op. I'm not sure if he did the right thing or not. I mean he could have killed people on the way driving like a crazy man,but you panic at times like that so it is within reason.
 
Isn't any dose of heroin overdosing? To the best of my knowledge, heroin isn't exactly found naturally in the body.
 
[quote name='Pancake Rabbit']I can't believe someone compared using heroin to eating bacon. LEAVE BACON OUT OF THIS.[/quote]

Bacon goes well with pancakes
 
For what it's worth OP, I'm glad your friend is alright (I'm not wishing death upon the two of you like some of the assholes in here).

It was dumb as hell, regardless.
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']See here's my problem with what you said. It's not your intention, it's the way you go about it. You remind me of NA philosophy. It's as if each addict is inevitably intertwined in an unwinable battle of good (desire, will, positive cognition towards staying clean) and evil (drug temptation). I don't feel that way. I feel completely neutral when it comes to the ethical ramifications of either my use or non-use. I think when it comes to drug use.. consequences matter. If your drug use creates problems, stop. If not, do as you please. You say you don't consider me completely clean? I don't care. I feel the same as I did a week ago, two weeks ago, and three weeks ago. My use will not depend on where I am on my "journey" to holy ritcheous sobreity, but will depend on whether I feel like doing drugs or not.[/quote]

Perception =/= reality. I find it irrelevant if you *think* you have a problem. Not in the AA "admitting you have a problem is the first step" sense, but your obstinate denial that you have is troubling.

I'm also not in the "good/evil" dichotomy; but I consider abstaining from drug use a process, and not a decision. Stopping three weeks ago is different from what it will be like tomorrow, and what it will be like three months from now, and a year from now. If you relapse, are you "evil"? No. But there is a stark difference between the kinds of cognitive processes that lead you to recognize the *work* necessary to remain clean, versus the sort of narcissistic naivete that refuses to believe what you were doing was problematic in the first place.

One more thing.. I'm studying addiction theory right now.. and I'm about to graduate and start my masters work. I think one of the biggest problems in addiction treatment today is the lack of proper tailoring of treatment to specific personality types. In almost every other field of treatment, shrinks try to match up personality/demographic data to a treatment type.. but with addiction it's either the NA way or no way. That's bullshit. Not every person needs to be patronized with the "higher power" BS.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with that; the LSI-R is a phenomenal tool for providing therapy/rehabilitation for inmates in the US. It's a long process to categorize people according to risk and need, but that's because it is individually tailored. Of course, that means it is expensive to implement; couple that with the public's "fuck criminals and lock 'em up, don't give them anything" mentality that claims inmates are undeserving or unresponsive to such programs, and you have an excellent program that works, but the public won't invest in.

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']i love ya myke, but you had me until the "my two cents" comment.[/QUOTE]

It happens. I'm not arguing against religion as a whole, but it certainly is not all wine and roses.
 
[quote name='JJSP']Isn't any dose of heroin overdosing? To the best of my knowledge, heroin isn't exactly found naturally in the body.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, I overdosed on potato and leek soup this evening for dinner. Neither are naturally found in my body.
 
[quote name='jman619']Wishing she died that could come back to haunt you. You should't wish death or anything upon anyone besides you don't even know her... [/QUOTE]

I know she is drug addict if she injected herself with heroin. I also know that all drug addicts scum of the earth. I also know the world is better off without drug addicts. Therefore, I wish death on every drug addict on the face of the earth.

Hopefully, one day when America decides to get serious about the war on drugs, the crime of illicit drug use will be deemed a capital offense. The drug addicts' last injection will be a "freebie".
 
[quote name='joeltrae']I know she is drug addict if she injected herself with heroin. I also know that all drug addicts scum of the earth. I also know the world is better off without drug addicts. Therefore, I wish death on every drug addict on the face of the earth.

Hopefully, one day when America decides to get serious about the war on drugs, the crime of illicit drug use will be deemed a capital offense. The drug addicts' last injection will be a "freebie".[/quote]

Yeah the world is better without drugs,but wishing she would die cause of it isn't that a bit much?
 
[quote name='joeltrae']I know she is drug addict if she injected herself with heroin. I also know that all drug addicts scum of the earth. I also know the world is better off without drug addicts. Therefore, I wish death on every drug addict on the face of the earth.

Hopefully, one day when America decides to get serious about the war on drugs, the crime of illicit drug use will be deemed a capital offense. The drug addicts' last injection will be a "freebie".[/QUOTE]

'Zat you, Nancy Reagan?

Why don't we extrapolate this a bit further, and execute any and all criminal offenses. Remember that time you went 75MPH in a 65MPH zone? Off with your fucking head, scum of the earth.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If that's the case, I overdosed on potato and leek soup this evening for dinner. Neither are naturally found in my body.[/QUOTE]
You know what I meant, smartass.

I dunno, maybe it's me. If someone I know overdosed in front of me, I doubt I'd be rushing to the computer to tell people. Scene points ftw, I guess.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']'Zat you, Nancy Reagan?

Why don't we extrapolate this a bit further, and execute any and all criminal offenses. Remember that time you went 75MPH in a 65MPH zone? Off with your fucking head, scum of the earth.[/QUOTE]

Nancy reagan had the right idea, except she should have went further and made the slogan "just say no or else". And at the same time illicit use should have been upgraded to a capital offense.

You are correct, moving violations SHOULD be criminalized. As they stand as civil offenses is far too lenient and not taken seriously by the public at large. I do believe the threat of 50 lashes with a rattan cane as punishment for driving violations would would have the effect of making our highways much safer. And yes, I am 100% in favor of those convicted of drunk driving to be executed also. I will go out on a limb here and say that I believe we would see at least a 50% reduction in drunk driving fatalities in the first year of implementation.

And yes, I am in favor of equal enforcement and habeas corpus for ALL citizens.
That includes myself, any member of my family, any friend.
 
well i'll be the first to say good job being clean for these couple of weeks, and good luck stayin clean. Hopefully this incident will cause your friend to straighten up too.

If she doesn't get clean, you might no want to continue hanging out with her because you'll eventually end up doin it again too if you stay around her.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Nancy reagan had the right idea, except she should have went further and made the slogan "just say no or else". And at the same time illicit use should have been upgraded to a capital offense.

You are correct, moving violations SHOULD be criminalized. As they stand as civil offenses is far too lenient and not taken seriously by the public at large. I do believe the threat of 50 lashes with a rattan cane as punishment for driving violations would would have the effect of making our highways much safer. And yes, I am 100% in favor of those convicted of drunk driving to be executed also. I will go out on a limb here and say that I believe we would see at least a 50% reduction in drunk driving fatalities in the first year of implementation.

And yes, I am in favor of equal enforcement and habeas corpus for ALL citizens.
That includes myself, any member of my family, any friend.[/QUOTE]
50 percent? I think you are out on a limb.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Nancy reagan had the right idea, except she should have went further and made the slogan "just say no or else". And at the same time illicit use should have been upgraded to a capital offense.

You are correct, moving violations SHOULD be criminalized. As they stand as civil offenses is far too lenient and not taken seriously by the public at large. I do believe the threat of 50 lashes with a rattan cane as punishment for driving violations would would have the effect of making our highways much safer. And yes, I am 100% in favor of those convicted of drunk driving to be executed also. I will go out on a limb here and say that I believe we would see at least a 50% reduction in drunk driving fatalities in the first year of implementation.
And yes, I am in favor of equal enforcement and habeas corpus for ALL citizens.
That includes myself, any member of my family, any friend.[/quote]

False. Facts say that the death penalty deter people from murdering, the same would take effect for this, if someone is going to do it, they will do it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Perception =/= reality. I find it irrelevant if you *think* you have a problem. Not in the AA "admitting you have a problem is the first step" sense, but your obstinate denial that you have is troubling.

I'm also not in the "good/evil" dichotomy; but I consider abstaining from drug use a process, and not a decision. Stopping three weeks ago is different from what it will be like tomorrow, and what it will be like three months from now, and a year from now. If you relapse, are you "evil"? No. But there is a stark difference between the kinds of cognitive processes that lead you to recognize the *work* necessary to remain clean, versus the sort of narcissistic naivete that refuses to believe what you were doing was problematic in the first place.



I don't disagree with that; the LSI-R is a phenomenal tool for providing therapy/rehabilitation for inmates in the US. It's a long process to categorize people according to risk and need, but that's because it is individually tailored. Of course, that means it is expensive to implement; couple that with the public's "fuck criminals and lock 'em up, don't give them anything" mentality that claims inmates are undeserving or unresponsive to such programs, and you have an excellent program that works, but the public won't invest in.



It happens. I'm not arguing against religion as a whole, but it certainly is not all wine and roses.[/quote]

Myke, come on.. you've given me the premise of 1] I've done drugs and the conclusion of 1] It's been problematic. Yet, you've made no causal inference as to how it's been problematic. I'm gonna go ahead and accuse you of being biased in this situation. Not that I blame you, after all you have that second hand to count right?

Remember that dude came into the wrestling thread and was saying things like, "myke, you're smart, why would you enjoy wrestling?". Well, I'm asking you... as a rational person, why not attack my argument objectively? You're assuming I've had problems when that simply isn't the case.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Nancy reagan had the right idea, except she should have went further and made the slogan "just say no or else". And at the same time illicit use should have been upgraded to a capital offense.

You are correct, moving violations SHOULD be criminalized. As they stand as civil offenses is far too lenient and not taken seriously by the public at large. I do believe the threat of 50 lashes with a rattan cane as punishment for driving violations would would have the effect of making our highways much safer. And yes, I am 100% in favor of those convicted of drunk driving to be executed also. I will go out on a limb here and say that I believe we would see at least a 50% reduction in drunk driving fatalities in the first year of implementation.

And yes, I am in favor of equal enforcement and habeas corpus for ALL citizens.
That includes myself, any member of my family, any friend.[/QUOTE]

Yowza. I think you'd be far happier living in Singapore.

[quote name='SIUfan']False. Facts say that the death penalty deter people from murdering, the same would take effect for this, if someone is going to do it, they will do it.[/QUOTE]

Show me those facts, because that isn't true.

[quote name='PhrostByte']Remember that dude came into the wrestling thread and was saying things like, "myke, you're smart, why would you enjoy wrestling?". Well, I'm asking you... as a rational person, why not attack my argument objectively? You're assuming I've had problems when that simply isn't the case.[/QUOTE]

I've known more users in my life than I'd like to admit to, and not a single bloody one of them was not addicted in some way. Some more than others; some could go quite some time without using and be fine. Others went for months, moved away, and dropped dead of an overdose two weeks later. Others couldn't go out anywhere for fear of falling back into their habit. Some suffered from long-lasting effects of using, and dropped dead over a year after their last use.

When I say "problems," I'm not referring to past incidences of overdosing, stealing cash/pawning your parent's stuff or your own stuff to buy, or anything of that nature. I'm referring to this belief that, each and every time you use, you're safe and immune from the problems, short term and long term, that stem from heroin use. A nasty batch, cut with crystal or god knows what...suddenly your assumption of safe use is overrun by an overdose, a sudden addiction to whatever the drug was cut with. You simply can't convince me that your every experience getting high was perfectly fine, never made you sick, never made you crave, never made you paranoid, never made you doubt your true friends, never made you miss a family occasion. The ideal is incorrect and absurd.

From an objective standpoint, the probability that your each and every fix was a flawless experience that provided nothing but joy and euphoria, presented no problems or complications, and zero addictive qualities is far too unlikely, and even you must admit (even in the unlikely event that what you claim is true), the most improbable outcome of being a user. Objectively, the likelihood of not exhibiting any of those issues is just too bloody improbable. Moreover, your denial of having any problems is proven to be improbable by the kinds of experiences you describe happening to your friend in the OP. How can you so foolishly think that such a thing *could* never happen to you? I can't say it had, but you can godDAMN sure not say that it never *could*. That's an outright lie.
 
[quote name='SIUfan']False. Facts say that the death penalty deter people from murdering, the same would take effect for this, if someone is going to do it, they will do it.[/QUOTE]Actually there is some truth to what you say. And it is also true that if a drunk driver is executed, that drunk driver will not reoffend. So, it does DETER people from reoffending. That is good enough for me.

And yes, I do believe America to be extremely lax when it comes to punishing and deterring criminal behavior. Very soon or at least within my lifetime, I hope to see convicted shoplifters have BOTH of their hands amputated to help DETER them from reoffending.

The fact is, at this point in America's history, it's citizens have proven they are an unruly lot, not to be trusted to behave in a civil manner. Illicit drug use rates and other crime rates in America show that it's citizens need to be monitored and shown the correct way of behaving using much harsher methods than are implemented by today's government.

As I speak the first orders of business I lobby for is cameras on every streetcorner in America linking locally, and with a central federal database. Secondly, I am lobbying with some success a push for mandatory random drug testing of ALL citizens. At this juncture a positive test result will not be a capital offense, but with some luck that will come in the near future. This will have many positive impacts one of which would be to identify those who may resist future legislation.

These will be the first small steps to making America strong and restoring it to it's status as greatest country on earth.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Actually there is some truth to what you say. And it is also true that if a drunk driver is executed, that drunk driver will not reoffend. So, it does DETER people from reoffending. That is good enough for me.

And yes, I do believe America to be extremely lax when it comes to punishing and deterring criminal behavior. Very soon or at least within my lifetime, I hope to see convicted shoplifters have BOTH of their hands amputated to help DETER them from reoffending.

The fact is, at this point in America's history, it's citizens have proven they are an unruly lot, not to be trusted to behave in a civil manner. Illicit drug use rates and other crime rates in America show that it's citizens need to be monitored and shown the correct way of behaving using much harsher methods than are implemented by today's government.

As I speak the first orders of business I lobby for is cameras on every streetcorner in America linking locally, and with a central federal database. Secondly, I am lobbying with some success a push for mandatory random drug testing of ALL citizens. At this juncture a positive test result will not be a capital offense, but with some luck that will come in the near future. This will have many positive impacts one of which would be to identify those who may resist future legislation.

These will be the first small steps to making America strong and restoring it to it's status as greatest country on earth.[/QUOTE]Why on Earth would you want to live in an oppressive police state? I really hope you're just trolling or joking or something.

I'm frightened to see what else you think is necessary if what you just laid out constitutes only "the first small steps." :roll:
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Why on Earth would you want to live in an oppressive police state? I really hope you're just trolling or joking or something.

I'm frightened to see what else you think is necessary if what you just laid out constitutes only "the first small steps." :roll:[/QUOTE]I think his mommy read him Fahrenheit 451 in the bomb shelter last night. He's just really disappointed that he had to carry all the bananas down there for when we all get turned into monkeys.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Actually there is some truth to what you say. And it is also true that if a drunk driver is executed, that drunk driver will not reoffend. So, it does DETER people from reoffending. That is good enough for me.

And yes, I do believe America to be extremely lax when it comes to punishing and deterring criminal behavior. Very soon or at least within my lifetime, I hope to see convicted shoplifters have BOTH of their hands amputated to help DETER them from reoffending.

The fact is, at this point in America's history, it's citizens have proven they are an unruly lot, not to be trusted to behave in a civil manner. Illicit drug use rates and other crime rates in America show that it's citizens need to be monitored and shown the correct way of behaving using much harsher methods than are implemented by today's government.

As I speak the first orders of business I lobby for is cameras on every streetcorner in America linking locally, and with a central federal database. Secondly, I am lobbying with some success a push for mandatory random drug testing of ALL citizens. At this juncture a positive test result will not be a capital offense, but with some luck that will come in the near future. This will have many positive impacts one of which would be to identify those who may resist future legislation.

These will be the first small steps to making America strong and restoring it to it's status as greatest country on earth.[/QUOTE]

You're a joke account, a fool, or both. Or a lobbyist for someone who profits massively off of the incorrect presentation of the US as a society growing more and more criminal, and thus, your need to distort the facts.

Per capita crime rates have declined, on the whole, 10-15% over the past 15 years or so. Crime rates rose during the 1980's, all throughout the period of mass incarceration (the prison population exploded from 300K to over 2 million by the mid-1990's). So, when you see an increased rate of incarceration cooccur with an increase in crime rates, you can't claim proper causality that deterrence works.

OTOH, recidivism rates have increased markedly over this period in time, and that upward trend is directly related to the decrease in rehabilitation and treatment programs offered in prison. Necessarily, putting more folks in prison (where they pick up drug habits as well as learn from some of the finest criminal minds society has to offer), not offering them rehab, treatment, or skills training, and releasing them back into society unmonitored (which is increasingly likely due to a combination of a large increase of prisoners "maxing out," and thus not being ABLE to be monitored by a caseworker/parole officer, as well as the large increase of prison releases compared to the stagnance of the number of caseworkers/officers, leading to such a high caseworker/release ratio so as to diminish the ability to observe people consistently and frequently)...and you have a damned good socially constructed recipe for recidivism.

With that in mind, while you may not be obliged to disclose who you lobby for, perhaps you can shed light on the services they offer? I think that might provide some insight into why you make the arguments you do. One thing is for certain: you're about as factually on the mark as Robert Martinson was 33 years ago.

So, given the 700%+ increase in the prison population from 1974 through the mid-1990's, coupled with high (60%+) recidivism rates, BUT ALSO declining crime rates on the whole, you're left with the recognition that the people who are continuing to commit crimes are IN FACT the very people churning (thank Lynch and Sabol's 2001 Urban Institute report for that term) in and out of our prison system, and less likely people without criminal histories (which was necessarily the case when recidivism rates were lower, but overall crime rates higher). The very people who faces a FAR harsher and more punitive corrections system are, in fact, MORE LIKELY to recidivate than their better-treated peers in decades past.

Sleep tight! ;)

EDIT 2: So, you work for a firm, I'm certain, that will profit off of cameras and drug testing. Hmm. I'll have to look up some private EM firms. I'm sure I'll discover something there.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Why on Earth would you want to live in an oppressive police state? I really hope you're just trolling or joking or something.

I'm frightened to see what else you think is necessary if what you just laid out constitutes only "the first small steps." :roll:[/QUOTE]

Why on Earth would you want to live in a dangerous criminal state? That is what we have today, and it will continue to get worse. Just as one poster mentioned look at the great country of Singapore. Even though they are a little lax in their punishment ( I believe the American in 1994 only received 6 to 12 lashes with a rattan cane for the conviction of vandalism of automobiles, while harming the property of another should have easily qualified him to be tried for a capital offense) the government of Singapore has known for quite some time that it's citizens must be treated as children with a firm hand in order to create the nearly crime and drug free society it is today.

You might call it a police state, if you are a criminal that likes to break the law.I call it a model of utopian government which will hopefully be implemented, with a little more emphasis on real punishment, in America in the near future if all goes well.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Just as one poster mentioned look at the great country of Singapore. Even though they are a little lax in their punishment[/QUOTE]

Oh my. I did waste my time on a joke account, didn't I?

For the record, Michael Fay was initially sentenced to 4 months incarceration, 6 strokes of the cane, and a fine *prior* to the protest of the US government - which is their judicial system at work. NOT the capital offense you consider it to have been by a long shot.

...shit. I've done it again!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Oh my. I did waste my time on a joke account, didn't I?

For the record, Michael Fay was initially sentenced to 4 months incarceration, 6 strokes of the cane, and a fine *prior* to the protest of the US government - which is their judicial system at work. NOT the capital offense you consider it to have been by a long shot.

...shit. I've done it again![/QUOTE]

Of course it was not a capital offense in Singapore. They are a good model of government but lax in punishment. I meant harming the property of another SHOULD be a capital offense in Singapore and America. I know Michael was NOT subject to execution at any point in time, but it would make for a stronger country if he had been was my point.
 
Joel, I'm waiting for you to respond to Myke's post of factual stats and trends which contradict your ideas of "justice."

Also: I think I can safely say that we all like you better when you lurked. You went three years without posting a damn thing, so why stop now?
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Of course it was not a capital offense in Singapore. They are a good model of government but lax in punishment. I meant harming the property of another SHOULD be a capital offense in Singapore and America. I know Michael was NOT subject to execution at any point in time, but it would make for a stronger country if he had been was my point.[/QUOTE]
No one should ever TP this guy's house.
Ever.
 
[quote name='Greetard']HA! You of all people. I can't count the number of times you've told a shitty joke or took a stab at someone than pulled the "Cant'cha take a joke? Serious business" bullshit after.

But, of course, all is well when Apossum does it
or when it doesn't involve a dead relative, right?
[/QUOTE]


Nice low blow there buddy. you're a classy one, ain'tcha?

It took me a second, but now I remember...you're referring to some thread where I made fun of you for some dumb comment about pc gaming I think. Hardly on the same level you soft fucking idiot. and really, are you sore about that or something? :rofl:

I also don't need you to keep me in check either douchebag, considering I've already PMed punk raven about my snap at him...

anyway, good to know I'm someone's forum nemesis. not sure who you are exactly, but whatever...

[quote name='Phrostbyte']Myke, come on.. you've given me the premise of 1] I've done drugs and the conclusion of 1] It's been problematic. Yet, you've made no causal inference as to how it's been problematic. I'm gonna go ahead and accuse you of being biased in this situation. Not that I blame you, after all you have that second hand to count right?

Remember that dude came into the wrestling thread and was saying things like, "myke, you're smart, why would you enjoy wrestling?". Well, I'm asking you... as a rational person, why not attack my argument objectively? You're assuming I've had problems when that simply isn't the case.[/quote]

I know Myke's already answered this post and I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes here but Phrost....you had a fucking girl OD in your car last night and you're saying drugs haven't caused problems for you? am I in the fucking twilight zone here or what? :lol: people don't normally have OD'd girls in their car after coming back from getting fast food. This is about as large of a sign as you can possibly get (short of you OD'ing yourself) that perhaps hard drugs have become a little too cozy in your presence.

It sounds like you don't want to feel like you've succumbed to the idea that drugs and the people that do them are automatically bad, which I can respect to an extent. Sure, there's a scene around intellectual and upper class types who seem to have a better handle on their use (which it sounds like you might be surrounded by), but there's just always a relatively high element of risk with these things. if you're hanging around people doing heroin, it's all but guaranteed that there are will be more unpleasant points where your life and their use intersect. That's the problem with it-- it's not just a personal thing that stays on each person like they're an island...

Maybe this is the only bad thing that has happened in your life when it comes to heroin and maybe it feels like kind of a fluke, but stigma or not, at least recognize that some fucked up shit happened to you last night, that there was only reason why it happened, and that it's worth re-evaluating your life circumstances over.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Joel, I'm waiting for you to respond to Myke's post of factual stats and trends which contradict your ideas of "justice."

Also: I think I can safely say that we all like you better when you lurked. You went three years without posting a damn thing, so why stop now?[/QUOTE]

Yeah I read his post. And his statistics and facts seem to be correct from what I have read. But at the end of the day the best way to control recidivism is to execute any citizen that offends. It is cheaper than incarceration or rehabilitation. And there is a 0% recidivism rate. It works people.

The best, most effective means to a safe and drug free society is putting cameras on every streetcorner in America and execution of drug users and citizens who break laws against harming the person or property of another.

If you do not like the steps that are being lobbied for that will eventually make America nearly drug and crime free, I have but one conclusion.

You must be a drug addict or a criminal of another sort.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Yeah I read his post. And his statistics and facts seem to be correct from what I have read. But at the end of the day the best way to control recidivism is to execute any citizen that offends. It is cheaper than incarceration or rehabilitation. And there is a 0% recidivism rate. It works people.

The best, most effective means to a safe and drug free society is putting cameras on every streetcorner in America and execution of drug users and citizens who break laws against harming the person or property of another.

If you do not like the steps that are being lobbied for that will eventually make America nearly drug and crime free, I have but one conclusion.

You must be a drug addict or a criminal of another sort.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you're a moron. Execute everyone for doing drugs. You know, because that's the worst law infraction out there.

I'm sure you never underage drank or sped in a car before. Oh noez! Execute!
 
[quote name='Calamityuponthee']Wow, you're a moron. Execute everyone for doing drugs. You know, because that's the worst law infraction out there.

I'm sure you never underage drank or sped in a car before. Oh noez! Execute![/QUOTE]

Yes it is one of the most serious infractions, because it fosters a mentality in citizens of being autonomous and resolute from abstract rule. In other words, drug users are a top priority for lawful execution because of their rebellious mindset is meme like and detrimental to the overall compliance of citizens to be dedicated to lawful activity.

Yes, you are correct, I will be eligible for execution if when the "new" law takes effect, it is applied retroactively. In 1996 I was given a civil ticket for having an expired inspection sticker on my station wagon. As you know I am working on the concept of "civil" infractions being purged so that all infractions are based on criminal law.

Rest assured, neither I nor any family member or friend of mine will be accorded anything more than the habeas corpus of any U.S. citizen.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Yowza. I think you'd be far happier living in Singapore.



Show me those facts, because that isn't true.



I've known more users in my life than I'd like to admit to, and not a single bloody one of them was not addicted in some way. Some more than others; some could go quite some time without using and be fine. Others went for months, moved away, and dropped dead of an overdose two weeks later. Others couldn't go out anywhere for fear of falling back into their habit. Some suffered from long-lasting effects of using, and dropped dead over a year after their last use.

When I say "problems," I'm not referring to past incidences of overdosing, stealing cash/pawning your parent's stuff or your own stuff to buy, or anything of that nature. I'm referring to this belief that, each and every time you use, you're safe and immune from the problems, short term and long term, that stem from heroin use. A nasty batch, cut with crystal or god knows what...suddenly your assumption of safe use is overrun by an overdose, a sudden addiction to whatever the drug was cut with. You simply can't convince me that your every experience getting high was perfectly fine, never made you sick, never made you crave, never made you paranoid, never made you doubt your true friends, never made you miss a family occasion. The ideal is incorrect and absurd.

From an objective standpoint, the probability that your each and every fix was a flawless experience that provided nothing but joy and euphoria, presented no problems or complications, and zero addictive qualities is far too unlikely, and even you must admit (even in the unlikely event that what you claim is true), the most improbable outcome of being a user. Objectively, the likelihood of not exhibiting any of those issues is just too bloody improbable. Moreover, your denial of having any problems is proven to be improbable by the kinds of experiences you describe happening to your friend in the OP. How can you so foolishly think that such a thing *could* never happen to you? I can't say it had, but you can godDAMN sure not say that it never *could*. That's an outright lie.[/quote]
You make good points. I'm not immune, obviously. But I try to be safe. I think that a fairly rational person can use drugs with minimal complications... I'm not one of the sheep that thinks drug user and rational person are oxymorons. But if you want to talk about probability, think about odds. Roughly 40% of people who try heroin become dependant at some point in their lives. From the sound of it, you've dealt with an unfair sample.. Once again, I symphathize. I know it must be hard, I've lost people too. But what you're doing is projecting the problems of others onto me. Take this quote for example:

Moreover, your denial of having any problems is proven to be improbable by the kinds of experiences you describe happening to your friend in the OP.

All of a sudden I've inherited her problems? That's not the case. Sure it sucked that I was put in that situation. It was completely irresponsible and stupid of her. But is it my problem? It could have been. If they searched my car I wouldn't be here posting this right now. If I had caused an accident, something far worse could have occured. But what she deals with.. I'm not forced to. I might be there for her, but I don't feel her withdrawal, I don't have her cravings. I'm my own person. You mentioned the possibility of an overdose, or a bad cut. I'm not denying the possibility, but like I said, I try to be safe. The reason she overdosed is either because of the unexpected potency or toxins in the cut. But, the real reason is because she shot herself up. If it had been insuffilated it would have been filtered by the liver along the way. If the potency was the problem, she would have thrown it up. And as I said, I was never a shooter.

I'm not denying bad things can happen, I just prefer to minimize risks as I go.
 
[quote name='Apossum']Nice low blow there buddy. you're a classy one, ain'tcha?

It took me a second, but now I remember...you're referring to some thread where I made fun of you for some dumb comment about pc gaming I think. Hardly on the same level you soft fucking idiot. and really, are you sore about that or something? :rofl:

I also don't need you to keep me in check either douchebag, considering I've already PMed punk raven about my snap at him...

anyway, good to know I'm someone's forum nemesis. not sure who you are exactly, but whatever...



I know Myke's already answered this post and I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes here but Phrost....you had a fucking girl OD in your car last night and you're saying drugs haven't caused problems for you? am I in the fucking twilight zone here or what? :lol: people don't normally have OD'd girls in their car after coming back from getting fast food. This is about as large of a sign as you can possibly get (short of you OD'ing yourself) that perhaps hard drugs have become a little too cozy in your presence.

It sounds like you don't want to feel like you've succumbed to the idea that drugs and the people that do them are automatically bad, which I can respect to an extent. Sure, there's a scene around intellectual and upper class types who seem to have a better handle on their use (which it sounds like you might be surrounded by), but there's just always a relatively high element of risk with these things. if you're hanging around people doing heroin, it's all but guaranteed that there are will be more unpleasant points where your life and their use intersect. That's the problem with it-- it's not just a personal thing that stays on each person like they're an island...

Maybe this is the only bad thing that has happened in your life when it comes to heroin and maybe it feels like kind of a fluke, but stigma or not, at least recognize that some fucked up shit happened to you last night, that there was only reason why it happened, and that it's worth re-evaluating your life circumstances over.[/quote]

No.. you're absolutely right. But this is her problem... If it's going to occur again, then I might have to cut her off... but that's just the way it is. Hopefully, it's just an isolated incident that I unfortunately had to deal with... That's ok to me. People make mistakes. I've forgiven her. She'll either repay me by not doing dumb shit like this again... or I'll have one less friend.
 
[quote name='joeltrae']Yes it is one of the most serious infractions, because it fosters a mentality in citizens of being autonomous and resolute from abstract rule. In other words, drug users are a top priority for lawful execution because of their rebellious mindset is meme like and detrimental to the overall compliance of citizens to be dedicated to lawful activity.

Yes, you are correct, I will be eligible for execution if when the "new" law takes effect, it is applied retroactively. In 1996 I was given a civil ticket for having an expired inspection sticker on my station wagon. As you know I am working on the concept of "civil" infractions being purged so that all infractions are based on criminal law.

Rest assured, neither I nor any family member or friend of mine will be accorded anything more than the habeas corpus of any U.S. citizen.[/quote]
Yeah because we can't have autonomous people walking around right? Come on man... What you're talking about sounds like you could give Hitler a run for his money. You want to prevent crime? How about we legalize drugs. I'm sure that a decent portion of crime that occurs in this country is in some way related to drugs being outlawed, if either by means of acquiring money to buy drugs, or drug sales themselves. Imagine this.

Drugs become legalized and controlled for quality by the FDA. Drug manufacturing and sales become legitimate businesses suddenly, market forces drive down prices to comparable levels of alcohol and tobacco, and overnight drug related crime virtually disappears.

People are able to tweak their mental and physical states as they please. They're more autonomous and accepting of their government, and crime has dropped to 1/10th of what it was before. Prison populations decline sharply. Money is allocated to police departments to put the REAL criminals in prison. Murders, rapists, etc.

Maybe our society actually starts to treat addiction as an illness and not a crime? Maybe people actually get some help with their problems? Does this society sound a little too ideal to you? Yeah I guess you're right, go with your Fourth Reich theory instead.
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Yeah because we can't have autonomous people walking around right? Come on man... What you're talking about sounds like you could give Hitler a run for his money. You want to prevent crime? How about we legalize drugs. I'm sure that a decent portion of crime that occurs in this country is in some way related to drugs being outlawed, if either by means of acquiring money to buy drugs, or drug sales themselves. Imagine this.

Drugs become legalized and controlled for quality by the FDA. Drug manufacturing and sales become legitimate businesses suddenly, market forces drive down prices to comparable levels of alcohol and tobacco, and overnight drug related crime virtually disappears.

People are able to tweak their mental and physical states as they please. They're more autonomous and accepting of their government, and crime has dropped to 1/10th of what it was before. Prison populations decline sharply. Money is allocated to police departments to put the REAL criminals in prison. Murders, rapists, etc.

Maybe our society actually starts to treat addiction as an illness and not a crime? Maybe people actually get some help with their problems? Does this society sound a little too ideal to you? Yeah I guess you're right, go with your Fourth Reich theory instead.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:
 
[quote name='Apossum']Nice low blow there buddy. you're a classy one, ain'tcha?

It took me a second, but now I remember...you're referring to some thread where I made fun of you for some dumb comment about pc gaming I think. Hardly on the same level you soft fucking idiot. and really, are you sore about that or something? :rofl:

I also don't need you to keep me in check either douchebag, considering I've already PMed punk raven about my snap at him...

anyway, good to know I'm someone's forum nemesis. not sure who you are exactly, but whatever... [/QUOTE]

You'd like to think that I have some brooding hatred for you over a message board post, wouldn't ya? But, sadly, no, that's not the case. What you said to that other guy did remind me of that instance, but then it reminded me of a crapload more situations where:

Apossum: *Insult*
Other Poster: Hey asshole.
Apossum: Can't take a joke? Internet. Serious Business.

I've got a steel trap, my friend, and don't have trouble remembering stupid shit like this.
 
OP:

Congrats on your weeks of sobriety! Please stick to your guns and stay off that mess.

You remarked that you think occasional drug use is ok. I think most of us disagree with you, and here's why: Drugs have never, in all of history, made a person's life better in the long run. It's a waste of money and your health, it's illegal, and it can/will become addicting and cause you to find yourself in the same situation as your OD'd friend. For your own sake, stop now while you can, completely. Your older self will thank you one day for preserving yourself.
 
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