[quote name='lt_homer']I took Kareem out of the equation because Shaq is a better Center then Kareem. No doubt about it. Kareem getting the slam dunk banned in the NCAA has nothing to do with the NBA.
And you're argument of Shaq not having an all star guard is crap. He used to make all-star guards because he was so good. He's not even in his prime anymore and NBA finals contenders STILL want him. What has Penny done since Shaq left the Magic? How's Wade down in Miami? Last I checked he's been injured a ton and hasn't been able to carry the load. Kobe. Took him an entirely different team to summit the hill. Even had to fight with his coach, demand a trade, and fight with his teammate (Bynum) to get there.[/QUOTE]
Penny was an all-star after Shaq left. Penny's decline was due to his knee injury, not Shaq leaving. Kobe is Kobe. Wade was only really injured the season Shaq was traded to the Suns, and he tore it up last season by leading the league in scoring and garnering some MVP consideration. Kobe needed a new team built around him because the one he had was filled with aging veterans that complimented a Shaq-Kobe team. Not a Kobe team. Brian Shaw, Rick Fox, Robert Horry were not going to cut it with their careers winding down.
Whether or not he actually got into a heated fight with PJ doesn't matter since they've patched things up; it happens to the best of us. Kobe never actually fought with Bynum, he just wanted management to build a team to help him win now, not win in 5+ years; which would probably require trading Bynum.
Shaq on the other hand is wanted on most NBA teams because of his ability to draw a double team, and have a great(in his prime) to good(now) Center. There's a reason LA wanted him. There's a reason Miami wanted him, there's a reason Phoenix wanted him. And now there's a reason why Lebron wants him.
Teams want Shaq because even at his advanced age, he's still better than half of the league's starting centers playing in his sleep. That is all. Shaq is a shell of his former self, plain and simple. Would you rather have Shaq or Zydrunas? Shaq or Bargnani? Shaq or Eddy Curry? Teams (particularly contenders) still want him because when he's on the court (ha!), he's still much better than any alternatives. PHX traded for Shaq because they panicked when the Lakers got Gasol. They were afraid of the size mismatches the Lakers presented. Unfortunately for the Suns, Shaq's "dominance" didn't even get them past Duncan and the Spurs. I recall Shaq promising PHX fans he'd deliver a ring. He didn't even get out of the first round with 2-time MVP Nash and Stoudemire. He failed on that one there.
Cleveland wants him now because they got abused by D12 last year. This is a total desperation move to try keeping LeBron. They signed Varejao to a crazy contract and now have no cap space. This is Clevelands team for a few years, win or lose. The Suns were paying Shaq $20M who was ruining Nash's one strength (running the ball), and fielding a losing team; a recipe for disaster for PHX. That's why they traded him to CLE for nothing Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, both bought out of their contracts. Not even draft picks were involved. That tells you how bad PHX wanted to get rid of this guy.
edit: that POST shows how many assists Kobe had. Guess who got Kobe that stat? It sure as hell wasn't Rick Fox. Guess who was a ballhog his entire career until the '07 sesaon? Kobe. Do you know what Kobe had so many assists in the finals? Because he would pass it to Shaq who would dunk on whoever was on those East teams they beat. Do you know why they lost to the Pistons? Because Kobe decided to become "the man" that year, and didn't produce enough to win. He became selfish and the Pistons won with team play. Not "Kobe-play." Which was a HUGE reason Shaq wanted out of LA.
Do you watch Shaq's game at all? All he does is his back-down, post up and shoot a turn around hook/jumper. Kobe could not rack up assists like that because Shaq dribbles the ball and takes his time. Kobe threw alley-oops to Shaq, but alley-oops are created on dribble penetration. So yes, Kobe
made those assists happen. He's also became the primary ballhandler when Ron Harper/Brian Shaw left. Derek Fisher is a SG in a PG body, so that's why Kobe handled the ball as much as he did. The Lakers lost to the Pistons because they took all of the Lakers out of their game, not just Kobe. Shaq played the best in that series but even he was sub-par (for himself). It doesn't help any that Slava Medvednko is your starting PF going against Rasheed Wallace either.
Shaq wanted to go somewhere with a young superstar he could help mold. Kobe was a selfish player until '07-'08. He's STILL selfish, just not as much on the court(see: the video of him being the only player on the Lakers allowed to bring his family onto the court after the title was won this year).
Exactly, he knew he needed a superstar to win - he can't do it on his own. But how can he mold someone who is already a superstar? He knew he couldn't do it on his own; he needed a Robin to his Batman. The proof is in the pudding. Wade got finals MVP in '06, not Shaq. Shaq didn't make Wade (the refs did!
).
There's no argument left. Kobe needed Shaq. Shaq never needed Kobe, but he needed a scorer because a big man can't score 84 points a game. Can you name me three players on the finals team Shaq was on the Magic besides Penny? Without Googling it?
They most definitely needed each other. Shaq's piss-poor FT shooting would prevent him from winning the close games necessary to win a championship or even scoring 81 points; it's not because he's a big man. Wilt scored 100 for crying out loud. Shaq hasn't done it because of his FTs. You don't see teams intentionally fouling Amare or Yao Ming. That's because they can actually hit a FT.
Dennis Scott, Horace Grant, Nick Anderson. If you wanted me to name the 12th man on the bench, then you got me. Jon Koncak?
e: this was fun. i haven't had a good shaq kobe debate in awhile. Everyone is on Kobe's balls because of espn, and you actually know some of your stuff.
Yeah, love basketball talk. My fav sport and involving my fav team, the Lakers just makes it more enjoyable (and intense!).
LMAO at ESPN though. They HATE the Lakers. They HATE anything West coast. Pick any night on ESPN and the headline will be "Joba did this", "Brett Farve did that", "Yankees v. Red Sox", "SEC Football!"