Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)

I could just see the massive backlash Microsoft is going to get. I mean PC gamers have Steam which is essentially always online but the last time I paid full retail for a PC game at launch (that's full retail, no credits, bonuses) was maybe Skyrim or Deus Ex HR (which was Augmented Edition).

Microsoft will charge full price always for a system that is always online. It's future is not looking good.
 
Hopefully you won't have to pay a monthly fee to keep the system onlIne *sarcasm*

Most of my friends are just playing video games on their PC's these days, with steam it's so easy, the games are the same and you probably already have a PC to play them on. Not to mention steam sales!

I own all 3 systems now, all work very well for me and have few faults, next gen is looking like nothing but huge blunders.

I really don't see anything wrong with game installs though, I do them anyways because it saves wear and tear on the disc drive, and really, they don't take that long and you can do something else for a few min while the game is installing. As long as some console maker doesn't put a 32gb drive in a console with mandatory installs ...
 
Not gonna lie, but a always onlne 720 would make me consider a PS4. I've had electricity all the time outside of hurricane recovery periods, but Internet has been known to go down once in awhile for more then just a few minutes.

Also this doesn't bode well for non-high speed consumers at all.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Not gonna lie, but a always onlne 720 would make me consider a PS4. I've had electricity all the time outside of hurricane recovery periods, but Internet has been known to go down once in awhile for more then just a few minutes.[/QUOTE]

We're prone to rolling brownouts and blackouts out here in southern CA, so a required 'always online' console doesn't sound very appealing when the ISP goes down.
 
Always online will be a deal breaker for me too. It is also sad for the future. I still will play my NES and SNES to this day. Once MS is on to XBox 4 or 5 and lose support for Xbox 3, I would assume that since there will be no server for it to connect to it will not work any longer.

I really dont know why video game companies hate their customers so much and do whatever they can to force them to like something they clearly dont. They need to focus on giving us what we went and not giving us what they want us to want.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Or they found another way to profit from it....[/QUOTE]

This. I'm guessing it will be similar to what they did with the Arkham City Catwoman DLC - buy a used copy at Game Stop, get a online pass code on your receipt.

I'm still not going to be surprised if both MS and Sony continue the online pass model for all used games next gen.
 
Well it looks like the outlets picked up on the "dealwithit" twitter meltdown. Hopefully this forces MS to comment at least.

http://ap.ign.com/en/news/5944/microsoft-creative-director-on-always-online-deal-with-it-

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-the-drama-around-having-an-always-on-console

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...e-director-speaks-in-favour-of-always-online/

And a crap ton more. Even some non traditional gaming sites did

vg247: Always-on: “Deal with it,” says Microsoft creative director
Gematsu: Microsoft creative director defends ‘always online’
Huffington Post: Microsoft's Adam Orth Fans Rumour That Next Xbox Requires 'Always On' Internet Connection
CNET AU: Xbox's Adam Orth doesn't get 'always on' concerns
CNET UK: Microsoft exec can't see the problem with always online Xbox
TechRadar: Did Microsoft just confirm an always-online Xbox 720?
Official XBOX Magazine: Microsoft creative director defends always-online consoles, trades blows with BioWare
The Verge: Microsoft creative director: 'I don't get the drama' over 'always-on' Xbox rumors
Kotaku: Microsoft Creative Director 'Doesn't Get The Drama' Around Always-Online Consoles, Devices
SixthAxis: Microsoft Studio’s Creative Director Speaks About An Always-On Requirement
The Escapist: Microsoft Exec on Always Online Consoles: "Deal With it"
Develop: Microsoft exec: I don't get the drama around always-on
Gameplanet: Got a problem with always-on? "Deal with it" – Microsoft Game Studios creative director
NowGamer: Xbox 720 Always-On Practically Confirmed
 
I would not be surprised if the guy gets canned for his attitude. This IS going to be.PR NIGHTMARE for MS. Any chance to put a positive spin on always on just jumped off the roof.
 
Orth comes off as a total douche, and MS really has no choice but to address his behavior.

As far as an "always online" console goes, everyone else has already addressed my biggest issue: internet access goes out.
 
And Major Nelson has been radio silent on twitter since all this. I know it's 7 am in Washington but still...I get the feeling they are in a lot of Friday morning meetings.
 
What a cluster. If this turns out to be true, it's a boneheaded decision by Microsoft, and now thanks to this guy there's no way for them to spin it as anything short of openly hostile toward gamers.

I'm still kind of just dumbfounded that the always-online thing might actually be true.
 
Gotta see the ign article just for the user comment meme

The best part is it came out in an argument with Bioware.

Wonder how many systems ME sold during
 
I'm not defending the decision at all, I am not in favor of it. However...

Every time a thread like this comes up, people have been adamant that it could not happen. And this ignores the fact that EVERYONE in the industry wants this. Everyone. Except for consumers (and maybe gamestop, who doesn't count).

The simcity debacle is an example of how the consumer does not have a say in the direction of the big ticket industry. EA/Maxis saw a huge backlash, so big that they commented on the backlash, but their comments were to ignore the complaints (that said, effectively, "No always on, no cloud saves, the core of this is a single player game, etc."). Instead, they emphasized the fact that they are going to marginalize the consumer by re-purposing terms like "MMO" and "social features" as new euphemisms for restrictive, always-on control.

If you think that doesn't have HUGE implications for the games industry at large, you're missing the point. Other big ticket publishers aren't looking at EA and saying, "Those assholes!", they're tipping the cap to them, they view them as pioneers in getting the industry and the publisher-customer relationship to where they feel it should rightfully belong. You got always-on in there, you've got Origin forced on them, you've got servers under your control so you dictate the product lifecycle. They all want that, and MS is listening to those kinds of comments and possibly responding in cooking up the xbox.

So it's possible the next Xbox doesn't have always on, and that dude is just being a wiseass, but it's also possible that always on is happening. If it is, the xbox team isn't sitting around in crisis mode right now...they're just cooking up a bullshit "response" like what EA/Maxis issued last month.
 
Always on line just tells developers ''Hey we the gamers are still playing your games'' and will subsequently lead to more DLC for said popular game. Don't you guys want and love more DLC for your favorite games?
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Orth comes off as a total douche, and MS really has no choice but to address his behavior.[/QUOTE]
They should certainly let us know how the new console is going to handle this, but if the guy is simply standing behind what the company has already decided, they should not throw him under the bus to appease an Internet mob.

What I would find hilarious is if they do fire the guy but go ahead with an always online console anyway.

What they should do is stand behind their employee but also announce that the next console will not be always online and will play used games.
[quote name='6er']I would not be surprised if the guy gets canned for his attitude.[/QUOTE]If he is voicing the attitude of the company, firing him would be hypocrisy. This guy has big brass balls and is willing to defend his company. I'd keep him on.
 
The people at Microsoft have this crazy idea that if they can force online-only upon people that they won't care. How's that working out for EA and their one-star average rating of SimCity on Amazon.com due to online-only? They also have this crazy idea that they can completely curb piracy if they create an online-only environment. How did that work out for DRM and iTunes? Skipping the next Xbox, confirmed.
 
[quote name='japatten']The people at Microsoft have this crazy idea that if they can force online-only upon people that they won't care. How's that working out for EA and their one-star average rating of SimCity on Amazon.com due to online-only?[/quote]Ratings and revenue are two very different things. SimCity can get all the one-star reviews in the world but it won't matter if people still buy it. I see a lot of people complaining about a game they bought, when they should have learned their lesson from Diablo III already.

It will be interesting to see if we can figure out if SimCity made a profit or not.

How did that work out for DRM and iTunes?
Click to expand...
I think in that case music customers voted with their wallets. They either refrained in large numbers or just stole the stuff. This sent the message to companies that consumers want to download their music and play it on any device without restrictions. Now I buy music on Amazon and don't steal it anymore.

Can video game players do the same? I don't sense a lot of self-control among our ranks.
 
[quote name='japatten']The people at Microsoft have this crazy idea that if they can force online-only upon people that they won't care. How's that working out for EA and their one-star average rating of SimCity on Amazon.com due to online-only? They also have this crazy idea that they can completely curb piracy if they create an online-only environment. How did that work out for DRM and iTunes? Skipping the next Xbox, confirmed.[/QUOTE]

I'm waiting to see the mandatory XBL fee announcement next. Silver becomes gold, gold becomes platinum, and bronze gets you a fun plastic box to look at.
 
[quote name='waldo21212']I'm waiting to see the mandatory XBL fee announcement next. Silver becomes gold, gold becomes platinum, and bronze gets you a fun plastic box to look at.[/QUOTE]

This is what I am thinking, the console will become like a cell phone now, cheap base price, but you will have to pay to keep it online to play your games, if it goes offline you can't play your games at all. Or perhaps MS will charge what the others charge, however there will be a monthly fee attached because somehow its for a premium service that only MS can provide. This would give MS a good reason to institute an online only console. Mind you, you will still have to pay $60-70 for games.

I think people will just go to digital PC games if this happens.... since it will be the same thing just on a different box.

Internet outages happen, sometimes your connection just drops, I imagine its the same for everyone. I have 2 backup routers in case mine fails now (because the routers I use are dirt cheap on ebay) so I can just install a new router in probably 5-10 min and my connection will come back up if my router dies but that doesn't account for those times when the internet drops for a couple mins then comes back up a couple mins later, you know those times when you might be in the middle of a game and that happens.... Also doesn't account for the fact that outages at the ISP level can happen as well, and who knows how long it will take to come back up. No ISP guarantees a connection, unless you subscribe to business class internet which most of us do not.

I am honestly tempted to go back to my original GB advance, takes AA batteries so you don't have to worry about charging an Li-ion and can be played in any situation, however you will need light to play so you need electricity unless you have one of those bulky external lights.
 
Story even made nbcnews.com. I hope that online thing was a real thing and that this backlash will make them change it. (lol it wont)
 
http://kotaku.com/microsoft-apologi..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

Microsoft Apologizes for Employee's Always-Online Tweets, Avoids Saying If Next-Gen Xbox Will Require Online



"We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday," the company said in a statement published to the blog of Xbox official Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb. "This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter."
 
If some company expects me to be always-online in order to play their game/system then I expect their servers to be always-online each and every single time that I decide to play.

So far my ISP has had a great track-record while their servers have been a total shit-show. Therein lies the rub. Even if/when every duck is in a row on my-end; Blizzard, EA, Microsoft, Sony, and/or whoever else can't keep-up their end of the bargain.

And that's why always-online can fuck right off. I'm doing my part yet all of them fuck up constantly. (like clockwork at launches too)
 
Good news for everyone. I want Microsoft to get the fuck out of the gaming industry and take their bullshit attitude with them.

ibmkKJpRvsTld2.gif
 
Honestly I have a rock solid internet connection for 99% of the year, and like I said if something screws up with my router I am prepared. Yeah I would be concerned about things like "maintenance days" and downtime since you wouldn't be able to play during those times and if that was the only time you were able to play due to work or other commitments that could become a problem. If they ever had an outage like the great PSN outage it would be a very big problem.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Honestly I have a rock solid internet connection for 99% of the year, and like I said if something screws up with my router I am prepared. Yeah I would be concerned about things like "maintenance days" and downtime since you wouldn't be able to play during those times and if that was the only time you were able to play due to work or other commitments that could become a problem. If they ever had an outage like the great PSN outage it would be a very big problem.[/QUOTE]

So those Christmas Outages microsoft had for like three or four years mean nothing right? The ones where in December, Live was shit for three or four weeks at a time with intermitent service and an influx of racist children calling me a $$$$a? Yeah that doesn't happen.
Chil-wearing-headset-online-anger.jpg
 
My problem with the Steam/Origin argument (forgetting the whole cheaper game aspect) is that the PC, for the most part, is not just a gaming machine. It can do a thousand things without even having connection to the internet, including gaming the old-fashion, non-steam/origin way.

A game console, pretty much does just that, plays games. If there is a major outage, DoS attack, etc etc and the servers go down for extended periods, or in the (unlikely) event of an indefinite outage, what else can you do? Congrats! You have a $400 DVD player! (And that's if it will even do that offline)
 
[quote name='sp00ge']My problem with the Steam/Origin argument (forgetting the whole cheaper game aspect) is that the PC, for the most part, is not just a gaming machine. It can do a thousand things without even having connection to the internet, including gaming the old-fashion, non-steam/origin way.

A game console, pretty much does just that, plays games. If there is a major outage, DoS attack, etc etc and the servers go down for extended periods, or in the (unlikely) event of an indefinite outage, what else can you do? Congrats! You have a $400 DVD player! (And that's if it will even do that offline)[/QUOTE]

You can use the 360 for things beyond playing games... if you have an internet connection. And pay for Gold. And you have a system that still works.

In all seriousness, so many things about the next Xbox sounds bad (always on, Kinect focus, Kinect watches you, you still have to pay to play online). If these things aren't true, they should hurry up and clarify them.
 
[quote name='Vinny']You can use the 360 for things beyond playing games... if you have an internet connection. And pay for Gold. And you have a system that still works.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point. I think I'll stick with my 360 since I know I can continue to play games on it, until it either red-rings or Microsoft gets the idea to send out a digital bullet via Live and fries all existing 360's connected online, forcing an upgrade. :lol:
 
"...however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter."
Click to expand...

This is a confirmation in my eyes. Companies are quick to dismiss false rumors, not give some BS answer. They are probably scrambling to figure out how to announce always-on in a positive light. Which is impossible, or maybe they will change their minds. :nottalking:
 
Geez the PS outage was just an example!

I guess you have a few things that can happen:

1. Your router can go down, I have verizon DSL and a dual combo unit with the router and modem in one box. You can only use an ISP provided modem in my case as far as I know. Fortunately you can get them on ebay for like $6 so I was able to stockpile a couple. If you use another modem + router Verizon cannot help you with support if you have problems. So its not like I can run to the store and buy equipment to get my internet back up and running. But that is what happened when my first modem went out, I had to call the ISP and get the runaround for about 4-5 hours, until they FINALLY decided to send me a new router + modem, then I had to wait a few days for that to arrive, so I was without internet for a few days.

2. Internet can go down at the ISP level, they could be doing work in your area or whatever. Had this happen several times, usually doesn't last long. Could be irritating if you want to spend a night playing though. This would fall under internet going out due to a storm or some kind of natural disaster, in which case you might be without your system + games for a couple weeks to longer even if you still have electricity.

3. The game servers might not work.

4. Xbox Live servers might not work. I guess some games have separate servers. I don't play online extensively so I don't have too much experience with this.

Kinect is a problem for me unless they lower the space requirements, I have it working in my tiny room but it just barely works and I have to stand in a certain very small space to work, just large enough for one person to move around a bit. My living room would not work either, and wouldn't give me much more space than what I have in my room anyways. MS doesn't seem to understand that people have furniture that cannot be moved. I haven't seen a house in my area that honestly would support the size of room kinect needs, none of my friends or family have kinect for this very reason. I don't know why people don't cry foul more often on the space kinect needs, because as far as I know again in my area there are very few homes here that would support the space requirements for kinect. Mind you the Wii remote and Playstation move by comparison work fine in my room.
 
Always online is needed due to pirates.

I don't know why people are getting mad over it. If you guys want to get mad at someone, get mad at the people who pirate games.
 
The fact that MS isn't distancing themselves from this nitwit just leads more credence to the fact that it's likely true.

It's a sad sight to see. It's like bizarro world where MS wanted to trade places with Sony for a generation and be the arrogant SOBs that don't give a shit about their customer base.

Personally I haven't had a lick of internet trouble for as long as I can remember, and have no issues having a persistent connection but I don't feel comfortable supporting a console that requires it. There are just too many variables and instances that would render the console worthless.

If that and the anti-used games measures are true, hopefully gamers speak with their wallets because a company putting out a system that is so anti-consumer friendly has no business in the gaming industry and needs to be sent a message.

Also not a fan of bigger Kinect integration. I've switched to a projector setup and Kinect will never work right with it unless you like standing in front of the projector. Also I'm not draping a 15' cord across the floor to have Kinect in the front of the room at all times.

I've been MS first for the past two generations and none of this sounds appealing to me.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Always online is needed due to pirates.

I don't know why people are getting mad over it. If you guys want to get mad at someone, get mad at the people who pirate games.[/QUOTE]

fuck over paying customers with shitty DRM in order to attempt to stop people who would have never paid anyway and will still find work a rounds and still won't buy games. Seems like a good idea right?
 
[quote name='whoknows']Always online is needed due to pirates.

I don't know why people are getting mad over it. If you guys want to get mad at someone, get mad at the people who pirate games.[/QUOTE]

This may be the most ridiculous response. Making things harder for paying customers to eliminate some nonpaying customers who were never going to pay you anyway is so anti-consumer it is laughable. The onus should not be on the consumer. It is the problem of the provider and making a shit sandwich and telling consumers to eat it since they cannot find peanut butter and jelly is wrong. It will backfire and consumers will reject it eventually.

Would you be ok if a store frisked you every time you left a store since they are trying to prevent shoplifting? They could right? Would people shop there much? Most likely no.

^waldo beat me to it. :)
 
[quote name='waldo21212']fuck over paying customers with shitty DRM in order to attempt to stop people who would have never paid anyway and will still find work a rounds and still won't buy games. Seems like a good idea right?[/QUOTE]

Plus it's a giant copout. Pirates vs legit owners isn't even close. The biggest region for piracy is China, and IIRC, much of it stems from a ban on videogame imports and that's the only way they can get games there since there is no legal way to do so.

Maybe MS and all of the other big companies should work on the Chinese gov't, try to open a new market and have millions of new customers. But no, let's just do this instead.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Always online is needed due to pirates.

I don't know why people are getting mad over it. If you guys want to get mad at someone, get mad at the people who pirate games.[/QUOTE]
Piracy will always find a way, they are just making it more fun for the hackers. Look at the Russian versions of SCII and Diablo III.

The only way to stop piracy is to move the entire (or majority of the) processing task to the cloud, like what Onlive used to do.
 
[quote name='sp00ge']Plus it's a giant copout. Pirates vs legit owners isn't even close. The biggest region for piracy is China, and IIRC, much of it stems from a ban on videogame imports and that's the only way they can get games there since there is no legal way to do so.

Maybe MS and all of the other big companies should work on the Chinese gov't, try to open a new market and have millions of new customers. But no, let's just do this instead.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe this move could possibly be geared towards China, it does not make business sense, since they won't be able to sell their consoles there regardless of what they do to stop piracy.
 
It's a rumor people. Please get mad after any announcements/explanation of their motive. And if you don't want whatever it is after the announcement then enjoy your PS4.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']It's a rumor people. Please get mad after any announcements/explanation of their motive. And if you don't want whatever it is after the announcement then enjoy your PS4.[/QUOTE]

It's a rumor with some relatively reliable sources backing it up though. So it's most likely true unless MS back pedals and remove this "feature" in the final console.

As for getting mad after the fact, that doesn't make much sense to me. I'm "mad" now because there's a good chance that it will happen. Even if there was a very small chance, I'd think people should be mad sooner rather than later so that ideally MS could see the reactions and react accordingly. I know in reality that probably won't happen and it's probably too late, but if nothing else I still get to say I told you so (to MS) if they fail next gen.

And wait for an explanation for their motive? Come on now..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top