Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)

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[quote name='cancerman1120']Not trying to restart an argument but after the release of Aliens today I have to bring up how crazy eliminating used games are again. This is a game that already has a season pass for $30 yet the $60 game looks like a steaming pile of crap. We have argued and argued about game development and cost a lot here but this is a perfect example of a company trying to monetize the player instead of putting out a decent game. If this game could not be traded back in people would be so upset. I know not every game is a winner but when a game this bad from a good developer has a $30 season pass it just stinks.

IGN: 4.5/10
Destructoid 2.5/10
Eurogamer 3/10
Polygon 3/10
Gamespot 4.5/10
3D Juegos 3.8/10
EGM 9/10 (WTF?)
The Escapist 6/10
Gametrailers 5.9/10
Edge 5/10[/QUOTE]

I was really hoping Gearbox rinsed the Duke Nukem stink off their hands and brought a little of that Borderlands magic to Aliens...looks like that is not the case.

I completely agree with your entire statement. I like to give new IP a chance, but I do so knowing that if it ends up being a stinker I can always put it on e-bay and get some of my money back. Eliminating used games will bring no good to the industry. Gamers will compensate by buying fewer games in general, and they will also be less likely to take chances on new IP. Most of them will stick to their tried and true franchises. If gamers are taking fewer chances on new IP, then developers/publishers will also be less likely to take a chance on releasing a new IP. All we will be left with is a new Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil, and Madden year in and year out.
 
This is all speculation.

I will never understand why people get all riled up over unsubstantiated rumors. If either M$ or Sony do in fact require always on DRM then vote with your wallets. The message will inevitably sink in.
 
I don't think it will have that much impact on new IPs.

The average gamer is already mostly just buying new games in the franchises they play every year like CoD, Madden etc. already.

For new IPs, they tend to not sell well until they launch with good reviews and pick up good word of mouth. Used games going away doesn't really affect that. People would just be waiting for price drops/sales rather than buying them for $60 at launch like the do the latest CoD or Halo. And that's better for developers than people buying it discounted used.

The other factor to consider is that we're moving toward more games being download only. That will be a cheaper way for developers, especially smaller ones, to introduce new IPs. If they sell well and build a following off a shorter $10-15 XBLA/PSN game then they can make the sequel a big budget retail release.

Again, the only thing I'd dislike if used games go away is not being able to sell/trade my discs since I don't replay games. I have no issues buying things at launch and just waiting for drops/sales on the stuff I don't want to pay $60 for. But honestly, with my declining interest in games, if it's not worth $60 to me it's probably not something I'm interested in enough to buy in the first place. The main way I take advantage of sales is just saving money on games I didn't have time to play around launch by buying them later.

I'm more perturbed by the rumor the new Xbox will require Kinect. I have no interest in using that crap, and it doesn't work well in my condo as I don't quite have the space for it (got a Kinect system free from MS for my hacking debacle a year or so ago--ditched it pretty quickly). So it's just more useless crap to clutter up my home theater that I won't use--and I worry that they'll shoe horn motion controls or voice commands into games if every system is required to have it hooked up to work.

But as the post above notes, all this stuff is rumor. So only time will tell. I'm mixed on whether I'll buy another console after this current generation even if nothing changes with DRM, used games etc., so no real sense in my worrying about it anyway. I'll see what comes out and weight whether I'm gaming enough to buy another console after the first price drop on the new systems.
 
The always online no used games is a dead end if you ask me. I can't imagine they will have tons of happy users if that happens.

My other concern is that the rumored specs are pretty wimpy so far. Let's hope they deliver some custom cpu that is a big jump form the Xbox 360 or PS3. If they do not make some major leaps I can't imagine they will get lots of people to drop $400 or $500 on a new console.

I'm expecting all games to be native 1080P and a scaler chip that would allow for the newer 2160P tvs to look awesome as well.
 
I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Hence why next gen consoles are going to try and reinvent the wheel with things such as built in Kinect or some other gimmick.

IMO once 4K and OLED TVs become the norm then we will see the next graphical leap. For the time being any increase in graphical and processing power will only be marginal.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.[/QUOTE]

I disagree that current gen games don't look dated. Most do imo, and many look downright bad. Granted many still look adequate when you look at the higher profile graphics games like God Of War or Uncharted or Gears and what not, but there is still a long, long way to go.

Now I don't think the very first next gen games are going to necessarily blow any minds, but if you look ahead 4 years I think we'll mostly all find it difficult to appreciate the graphics of this gen when compared to next gen. I think soon enough when comparing this gen to next gen, you'll see much more clarity and detail that will be pretty unmistakeably "next gen".

Watch something like the Agni's Philosophy demo. We're not there yet, but someday we will be.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']This is all speculation.

I will never understand why people get all riled up over unsubstantiated rumors. If either M$ or Sony do in fact require always on DRM then vote with your wallets. The message will inevitably sink in.[/QUOTE]Most people are not riled up nor are they falling for unsubstantiated rumors. People are probably aware that it's a rumor and are talking about what they would think if it were true.
 
[quote name='aheineken']I was really hoping Gearbox rinsed the Duke Nukem stink off their hands and brought a little of that Borderlands magic to Aliens...looks like that is not the case.
[/QUOTE]
Randy Pitchfraud
 
[quote name='Spokker']Most people are not riled up nor are they falling for unsubstantiated rumors. People are probably aware that it's a rumor and are talking about what they would think if it were true.[/QUOTE]

Whatever you say bud. At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you expect or why you'd expect anything different. We're going off of whatever information there is right now. And while yes the current info is mostly just rumors, I think we should definitely be talking/arguing/debating any rumors of interest even if they do turn out to be completely false.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']Whatever you say bud. At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.[/QUOTE]

Correct. They are. You see something negative in that and I see something positive in that.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']
IMO once 4K and OLED TVs become the norm then we will see the next graphical leap. For the time being any increase in graphical and processing power will only be marginal.[/QUOTE]

That's a long ways off--if ever. It took ages to get people on board with HDTVs. 3DTVs have been even slower and really only spreading as it's hard to buy a decent big screen that doesn't have 3D these days--but adoption of 3D blurays players and discs is still slow, there's hardly any 3D content on cable/satellite etc.

So I don't think 4K will be much of selling point as most people aren't a/v enthusiasts and are happy with their TV, aren't going to upgrade from Bluray to a new 4K format etc. And in any case gaming always lags behind--i.e. how few games are in 1080p today.

OLED I do look forward to a bit--I'm hoping that will match or exceed the picture quality of plasmas without the drawbacks that led me to return plasmas the two times I bought them (most recently last month)--image retention and buzzing on bright scenes. Love the plasma picture, but those two things drove me nuts both times I tried one. Hope LED can give me that and not IR from hours of ESPN and games with HUDs, and no buzzing that I seem extra sensitive to hearing and being annoyed by.


[quote name='ShockandAww']I disagree that current gen games don't look dated. Most do imo, and many look downright bad. Granted many still look adequate when you look at the higher profile graphics games like God Of War or Uncharted or Gears and what not, but there is still a long, long way to go.
[/QUOTE]

Fair points. I really only play major releases like that, and I don't care that much about graphics, so I'm just no interested at all in upgrading to any new consoles. I'm also just in a burned out on gaming phase and more thinking of whether to clear our the backlog or just ditch a couple consoles and games, so maybe I'll feel differently down the road.
 
There is never going to be widespread digital distribution or 4K in this country. Our broadband infrastructure is laughable. 4K? Good luck getting anything on your TV that's even 1080p. Digital distribution? Not happening as long as more people live within driving distance of a Walmart than have access to high-speed internet.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Correct. They are. You see something negative in that and I see something positive in that.[/QUOTE]

The good thing is that if the console makers were even considering going this route, at least they'll hear all the outcry and hopefully think twice before they move forward.
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']There is never going to be widespread digital distribution or 4K in this country. Our broadband infrastructure is laughable. 4K? Good luck getting anything on your TV that's even 1080p. Digital distribution? Not happening as long as more people live within driving distance of a Walmart than have access to high-speed internet.[/QUOTE]


Well When the Xbox 360 came out there were not a ton of people with HD TVs in 2005. I agree that 4K tvs will not have the same uptake in homes as the HDTVs did but if the console makers do not include an upscaling chip in their systems to output to 4K I think we are going to find that in 5 to 7 years many homes will have 4K because tv prices will fall in price and many 10 year old HDTVs will have failed and need to be replaced. Without the ability to upscale to 4k I have a feeling everything will look dated just like when I play the PS2 or Xbox on an HDTV.
 
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4K is the next 3D. No one wants it. No one cares about it. No one is making content for it. Game companies aren't going to support a technology that a tiny, tiny minority of people can use. You need a huge, huge screen to even notice the extra detail.
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']4K is the next 3D. No one wants it. No one cares about it. No one is making content for it. Game companies aren't going to support a technology that a tiny, tiny minority of people can use. You need a huge, huge screen to even notice the extra detail.[/QUOTE]

PS4 doesn't even support 4k for games. Like you said the vast, vast majority don't care.
 
Yep it's just for videophile nerds with huge home theater set ups. 1080p sets will dominate for a long time like SD sets did. 4K will be a niche thing for videophiles with best case adoption scenario being on par with Laserdisc

People don't want to upgrade tvs again or rebuy movies after upgrading DVDs to Blurays (for those that even cared to do that).
 
I wonder if people are just reading too much into the "always on, always connected" wording.

I mean the Wii, PS3, and 360 all either remain "always on" in a standby mode or "always connected" in the sense that they can enable/disable the NIC in said standby mode. Hell launch Wiis fried because of standby, the PS3 can turn itself on and download stuff, and the 360 will happily charge a USB device while the system is off.

Not that it couldn't be nefarious either way but the existing consoles aren't much different in the above example.
 
[quote name='htz']http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/20/4126632/next-xbox-always-connected-game-install-required-rumor

Didn't want to bump this old thread but more information is coming out showing MS had or have plans to block used games.
I have a feeling they will go through with this and can still disable the DRM via firmware update if the next xbox is hurting badly in sales.[/QUOTE]

Yeah the no used games will be a deal breaker for me. I do not mind mandatory installs since I do that now but with games getting larger I cannot imagine what size the HD will have to be. At least 500GB. If the always on is a DRM thing also then it is dead dead dead to me. I own both systems now and planned on only having one next generation. Right now MS is making the choice easy. Hopefully when they finally reveal it all these things get squashed. After seeing the Sony conference you would think MS has to change their strategy but what do I know.
 
With the huge DRM launch problem that SimCity had, I hope MS is listening closely to how the community reacted. I read the IGN article today and its bad timing considering the SimCity launch last week.

They are already pushing it with the MS Office 365 license. We'll put it out on disc AND this year long license based format and see what happens. Eventually, then we'll quit publishing the discs all together. Full control of the distribution channel.

Full disclosure: 5 year XBL member, never wanted/needed to buy a ps3. But if they actually do confirm no used games when they reveal, I'll be switching to Sony, whenever I decide to upgrade.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']...and the 360 will happily charge a USB device while the system is off.[/QUOTE]

FYI, that doesn't mean the 360 is on. As in, they can enable USB charging without powering the CPU/GPU.
 
[quote name='elessar123']FYI, that doesn't mean the 360 is on. As in, they can enable USB charging without powering the CPU/GPU.[/QUOTE]

Well my point was that the 360, like many devices these days, doesn't truly shut off but rather goes into a standby/sleep mode where it still draws power and technically can use that low-level of power for whatever the firmware/hardware supports.

The only way to truly shut-off many modern devices is to unplug them completely and in that sense the 360 is still on as long as it's plugged-in. (just like the Wii and PS3 and tons of other devices)
 
Wow they are really determined to eradicate the used game industry

Edit: if this is true. But considering the accuracy of "rumors" these days...
 
[quote name='xtreme_Zr2']With the huge DRM launch problem that SimCity had, I hope MS is listening closely to how the community reacted. I read the IGN article today and its bad timing considering the SimCity launch last week.

They are already pushing it with the MS Office 365 license. We'll put it out on disc AND this year long license based format and see what happens. Eventually, then we'll quit publishing the discs all together. Full control of the distribution channel.

Full disclosure: 5 year XBL member, never wanted/needed to buy a ps3. But if they actually do confirm no used games when they reveal, I'll be switching to Sony, whenever I decide to upgrade.[/QUOTE]

Did Microsoft listen with Windows 8?
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Did Microsoft listen with Windows 8?[/QUOTE]

Ha! Of course not, only more evidence of what the nextbox could be. Hubris can bring down thr best of them.
 
[quote name='Indiana']Well When the Xbox 360 came out there were not a ton of people with HD TVs in 2005. I agree that 4K tvs will not have the same uptake in homes as the HDTVs did but if the console makers do not include an upscaling chip in their systems to output to 4K I think we are going to find that in 5 to 7 years many homes will have 4K because tv prices will fall in price and many 10 year old HDTVs will have failed and need to be replaced. Without the ability to upscale to 4k I have a feeling everything will look dated just like when I play the PS2 or Xbox on an HDTV.[/QUOTE]

I worked at Charter Communications in 2004 when they did the launch of HDTV in STL to coincide with the SB (the Janet Jackson one) and HDTV is still not used by the majority. Remember the run on digital converter boxes a couple of years back? Or how GS won't accept HDMI cable when trading in a system? That's why.
 
[quote name='TooPoor']Wow they are really determined to eradicate the used game industry

Edit: if this is true. But considering the accuracy of "rumors" these days...[/QUOTE]

Never mind the used game industry -- they are going to kill off their own industry altogether with this kind of thing. It's funny, they have gotten so fat, complacent and greedy that they can't see how much this will damage the whole enterprise they've got going. There will be many, many people who will find another form of entertainment if the industry turns into needing to drop $60-$70 every time just for the honor of playing one of their releases (with no possibility of recouping any of that investment on selling a used copy).

People don't believe another crash could happen -- but it can, especially where consoles are concerned. This could also be the thing that drives MS consumers to PS4 -- IF the rumors are true.
 
If these rumors turn out to be true, then the next generation console war will be over before it starts. I know a lot of people who have Xbox 360s that have never been connected to the internet. I remember reading a statistic that something like 30% of 360 owners don't connect. Add to that the blocking of used games and the required "big brother" Kinect system and MS is just going to drive consumers towards the PS4.
 
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/03/gamestop-calls-next-xbox-hot-compelling

"We’ve been spending a lot of time with Microsoft,” Raines admitted, “but we have to let them take the lead on [the new console], but it will be a very hot, very compelling device. They are doing some really cool stuff, and I’m eager to hear them start their announcements because I think the world is going to stand up and take notice.”

If GameStop likes it I suppose that means it won't block used games
 
[quote name='highoffcoffee496']http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/03/gamestop-calls-next-xbox-hot-compelling

"We’ve been spending a lot of time with Microsoft,” Raines admitted, “but we have to let them take the lead on [the new console], but it will be a very hot, very compelling device. They are doing some really cool stuff, and I’m eager to hear them start their announcements because I think the world is going to stand up and take notice.”

If GameStop likes it I suppose that means it won't block used games[/QUOTE]

Or they found another way to profit from it....
 
Ubisoft says the 720 very close to the PS4 in terms of specs.

"Ubisoft is quite proud of the PS4 and was able to show off a live gameplay demo of Watch Dogs largely because it already had PCs with specifications close to those of the next-gen Sony console, according to Yannis Mallat, who talked with Eurogamer about the new consoles.

While Mallat didn't reveal anything about the Xbox 720, he did say that the next-gen console from Microsoft would be "aligned with what Sony announced.""

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xbox-720-Is-Similar-to-PlayStation-4-Ubisoft-Says-342241.shtml
 
Yeah if one system does the used games blocking it will be over for that system pretty much, if the other ones don't do it. Nintendo is already not doing it, so there is one choice albeit not the most ideal one. Its also possible that a store like Gamestop could refuse to carry the console, especially if they have 2 other consoles they will be able to take in trades for. IMO if someone buys a console at GS they are expecting that they will be able to trade it back into GS if they don't want it anymore, blocking used games and GS not taking in trades on the system would definitely hurt sales.

It would be quite complicated for GS to sell a console and games that they couldn't take back in for trades, and would probably lead to some angry customers even if the employees told them what is going on before they bought the system.

If it came down to Nintendo being the only one not blocking used games next gen, I would buy their console, and probably not buy the others.

Tons of people here do not have HDTV and a lot of people play their 360's and other consoles offline, so if console makers want sales they definitely need to still make their products work offline. The PSP GO was an all digital console that required downloads, we all know how well that went.

I think this gen console makers need to make their product appeal to everyone if they want sales, if it doesn't work online, and if it doesn't work without wifi then they will lose sales from those customers who do not have those things or have access to them. They are going to need every customer they can get because a lot of people are satisfied with the consoles they already have. Some people can save up the lump sum for a video game or gadget but they can't deal with monthly bills like bills for an internet connection. There are still large and small areas of the USA that do not have access to broadband internet at all or it is not available without jumping through serious hoops.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Or they found another way to profit from it....[/QUOTE]
If they figured out a way to implement some kind of GameStop exclusive passes that "reactivates" used games...
 
Kotaku, got 2 more sources today confirming the always on requirement for the next xbox.
But if Microsoft is about to walk this back, they probably haven't done so yet. One of our sources says that the always-online plan was in effect as recently as two weeks ago
Click to expand...
 
So this just happened apparently. What an absolute douche bag. I wonder if he'll be unemployed tomorrow because damage control.

The guy he's going back and forth with on twitter is a senior gameplay designer for Bioware Montreal and is working on the next Mass Effect.

And I don't know since MS still hasnt said a damn thing, but it sure seems like they are going always online.

Edit: Oh christ he keeps on going. What an idiot. Is that really the MS Studios Creative Director or is this fake? I dunno.
 
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[quote name='ShockandAww']So this just happened apparently. What an absolute douche bag. I wonder if he'll be unemployed tomorrow because damage control.

And I don't know since MS still hasnt said a damn thing, but it sure seems like they are going always online.

Edit: Oh christ he keeps on going. What an idiot. Is that really the MS Studios Creative Director or is this fake? I dunno.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure it's fake. I sure wouldn't expect that level of childish behavior, unless he was drunk.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']So this just happened apparently. What an absolute douche bag. I wonder if he'll be unemployed tomorrow because damage control.

The guy he's going back and forth with on twitter is a senior gameplay designer for Bioware Montreal and is working on the next Mass Effect.

And I don't know since MS still hasnt said a damn thing, but it sure seems like they are going always online.

Edit: Oh christ he keeps on going. What an idiot. Is that really the MS Studios Creative Director or is this fake? I dunno.[/QUOTE]


Just came to post this. Yeah I thought maybe it was fake at first but after looking at the account I am pretty certain it is real. The crazy thing his "reasons" for supporting always on were pathetic. If he is the example of what a creative director at MS is like it is no wonder the 1st party exclusives have dried up there.

So this puts always on back on the table for now I guess. I hope enough outlets pick this up to force MS to make a statement.

Updated IGN article: 3 minutes of being offline and it shuts down.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/04/more-details-on-always-online-xbox-revealed
 
Wow, I just can't imagine this being real, both that Twitter exchange and an always online requirement. I mean, what the hell is Microsoft thinking?

Windows 8, Surface, and now Xbox... It's just one.blunder after another, they've absolutely lost it at this point.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Wow, I just can't imagine this being real, both that Twitter exchange and an always online requirement. I mean, what the hell is Microsoft thinking?

Windows 8, Surface, and now Xbox... It's just one.blunder after another, they've absolutely lost it at this point.[/QUOTE]

I own both systems right now and I prefer my 360 for controller reasons but if any of these things are true then I am done with MS. Sony has me next gen as long as they don't have any surprises at E3. If both end up this route then I will just keep playing my 360 and PS3. There are still hundreds of games I can try.
 
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