PINBALL ARCADE XBLA - Xbox One 11/26 Release

I read the darkness had to do with something on youtube. Farsight claims they aren't as dark as they appear in the videos.

Good news regarding the update for the original 4 tables. I've been looking forward to the improved lighting. I hope they update the DMD on the original 4 tables with this patch. The DMD in the video for CV looks a lot more DMD-like than the one we currently have.

I think they recorded CV like that to show off the positioning of the DMD. I wonder how it will be handled with the other views...
 
From what I'm reading on different boards, it seems it's a 4-5 week wait for the DLC to get MS approval, which means we won't have either pack until EARLY-MID JUNE.

Now, I'm no expert, and hopefully they're wrong, but I confess that's really disappointing if it's true.

I think Farsight is extending themselves a bit by trying to do these multi-platform, multi-device releases. More over, it does them no good to dump the tables out there for handheld devices then wait 6-8 weeks to get a 360 update. IMO it's going to hurt their long-term sales by having these updates coming out at such drastically different times. Some players will be confused and it could cause disappointment when they hear new tables are out -- but only on their mobile phone for the next month and a half. :(
 
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But now they are submitting the updates for all platforms at roughly the same time, and now it's just a matter of waiting for the varying length approval processes to complete, which isn't up to them. So, yes, they were off in timing with the initial releases, but now they are getting better at it.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']But now they are submitting the updates for all platforms at roughly the same time, and now it's just a matter of waiting for the varying length approval processes to complete, which isn't up to them. So, yes, they were off in timing with the initial releases, but now they are getting better at it.[/QUOTE]

If the timing of 4-5 weeks is accurate, though, then it's not the case, because by then, DLC #3 will be out (in mid June) on other platforms and we'll be once again another 4-5 weeks away from getting that on the 360.

Bottom line is folks having to wait 2 months from the release of the game to get the first DLC updates can't be good for the 360 sales. MS apparently rejected Farsight's first DLC pack which is why we're having to wait longer.
 
[quote name='phantomfriar2002']If the timing of 4-5 weeks is accurate, though, then it's not the case, because by then, DLC #3 will be out (in mid June) on other platforms and we'll be once again another 4-5 weeks away from getting that on the 360.

Bottom line is folks having to wait 2 months from the release of the game to get the first DLC updates can't be good for the 360 sales. MS apparently rejected Farsight's first DLC pack which is why we're having to wait longer.[/QUOTE]

I mean they are getting the releases submitted at roughly the same time, which they hadn't been before. That it takes a long time to be approved on the 360 is not their fault and I can't blame them for not making the other platforms wait for Microsoft to get their approval done.
 
[quote name='sp8001']I read the darkness had to do with something on youtube. Farsight claims they aren't as dark as they appear in the videos.

Good news regarding the update for the original 4 tables. I've been looking forward to the improved lighting. I hope they update the DMD on the original 4 tables with this patch. The DMD in the video for CV looks a lot more DMD-like than the one we currently have.

I think they recorded CV like that to show off the positioning of the DMD. I wonder how it will be handled with the other views...[/QUOTE]

I've had to deal with Youtube's transcoder as well. It really is heavy handed and heavily optimized to minimize the bandwidth for video. That aside, the darkness has to be how FarSight is recording it or how their 360 is setup up rather than Youtube.

And Youtube will allow higher quality video... for a price... which us cheap uploaders with free accounts don't have access to... :cry: But regardless of price, Youtube still caps videos at 30 fps which hurts the look of 60 fps games like Pinball Arcade.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']I mean they are getting the releases submitted at roughly the same time, which they hadn't been before. That it takes a long time to be approved on the 360 is not their fault and I can't blame them for not making the other platforms wait for Microsoft to get their approval done.[/QUOTE]

It's not only that it takes a long time, apparently they also messed up somehow because MS rejected the first DLC pack. Whether it's because of the lighting (maybe MS is insisting on that being there seeing as it's in the PS3 version already) or whatever, that IS something they could apparently have controlled and done a better job of.
 
[quote name='phantomfriar2002']It's not only that it takes a long time, apparently they also messed up somehow because MS rejected the first DLC pack. Whether it's because of the lighting (maybe MS is insisting on that being there seeing as it's in the PS3 version already) or whatever, that IS something they could apparently have controlled and done a better job of.[/QUOTE]

The point was that whatever the reason the 360 was behind (where did you get the information that the first DLC was rejected?), they are catching up with this release by giving us both DLC at the same time and submitted them at the same time as other platforms.

Also this update will not have lighting improvements, rather the next one will.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']The point was that whatever the reason the 360 was behind (where did you get the information that the first DLC was rejected?), they are catching up with this release by giving us both DLC at the same time and submitted them at the same time as other platforms.

Also this update will not have lighting improvements, rather the next one will.[/QUOTE]

Farsight had to "resubmit" the first DLC package according to a bunch of people in the know at the pinballarcadefans boards (there are some Farsight employees who post over there). It doesn't make much sense that they'd only be submitting DLC 1 to them now, here in the second week of May, when those tables have already been available on handheld devices for almost a month. Everyone expected DLC for the 360 now, not mid-June. I don't know why it was rejected, but for whatever reason it was.

You're right about the lighting being on DLC 3, I misread (or just didn't understand) their vague comment that it was coming with "the next one." So that's also another two-plus months from now.

I realize some people may not care about the staggered releases but it's disappointing to me. It's something that also could, theoretically, be solved by them planning ahead, submitting tables to MS ahead of time and dropping all the releases simultaneously so that the console isn't perpetually a month behind everyone else's DLC. If that's how it is, though, then so be it -- I just don't think it's the wisest way to go on their end.
 
[quote name='phantomfriar2002']I realize some people may not care about the staggered releases but it's disappointing to me. It's something that also could, theoretically, be solved by them planning ahead, submitting tables to MS ahead of time and dropping all the releases simultaneously so that the console isn't perpetually a month behind everyone else's DLC. If that's how it is, though, then so be it -- I just don't think it's the wisest way to go on their end.[/QUOTE]

there's minimal QA testing on mobile platforms. that's why there's so much crap out there.

FarSight needed to make money and they thought the best way was to release on as many platforms at once but for a small company, that's not particularly smart. Even big companies like EA don't release on so many platforms.

Pinball is pinball. To me, there's no rush needed. Yes, I want to play now. But I have tons of games to play and pinball is timeless. I'd rather them take the time to release a solid release the way the game is intended rather than constantly patch things.

Look at Trials Evolution. It was worked on for 3 years. They kept telling people, it's done when it's done. I'm surprised Ubisoft and Microsoft didn't push them harder to release faster, but when you build the rep with Trials HD, you can let your best developers have the time they need. And look at the masterpiece it is today.
 
Just up on their FB page...

We have good news and bad news to report on the issue of licensed tables. We’ve finally succeeded in negotiating all of the licenses we’d need to bring the Twilight Zone to the Pinball Arcade. This is unquestionably one of the greatest pinball tables of all time (and is currently #1 in IPDB’s user rankings). However the licenses are VEY expensive- so expensive that the table probably isn’t commercially viable. Some of you have suggested a Kickstarter project to raise money for the license costs and we’re considering this. We’d like to ask your opinion- is this a good idea? If we did it what should the rewards be for backers, and at what contribution levels? We’d appreciate your thoughts!
 
OMG. I may have to contribute to Kickstarter for the first time...

the only thing I worry about with this is it kind of opens Pandora's box. this means that license holders can hold out for extravagant amounts if they know that people will fork it over. Artful negotiation comes from the unknown. If you already tip your hand, you already are going to lose.

And if let's say they start a Kickstarter for this table. Does that mean the owners of STNG will hold out for Kickstarter numbers as well? Will T2 cost an arm and a leg? Will every table end up costing $15-25 individually?

I know FarSight is trying to act like and side with the fans. But open negotiation doesn't usually end well. And if things fall through, FarSight comes out looking really bad. At least behind closed doors, if the licenses fell through, no one would know the better of it.
 
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I think the key here is that they're not negotiating any longer for the rights to make it happen -- they have the rights and know what it's going to take. The issue is whether it's worth it for them to spend so much money if they proceed.

I also can see where TZ would be one of the costlier tables to license, between having to deal with CBS/Paramount and having to procure the music and samples. I mentioned this before, but the last couple of Star Trek video games didn't even have the Star Trek music in them because of licensing. This is basically the same corporate umbrella FarSight is dealing with here (and would be again on ST TNG too). And if you can't get everything -- including the theme music -- it's not worth doing.

I'm not sure every table is going to prove to be as expensive as TZ, but I guess from FarSight's perspective, this is as good a title as any to use as a guinea pig -- to see how many of us fans are willing to support it via Kickstarter or elsewhere.

From that perspective, I don't blame them for going public. At least they're being communicative and open about the process. From the perspective of the corporate entity FS is dealing with, I don't think it much matters HOW or where the money is coming from. I doubt one of these companies is going to go crazy and jack up the price on them knowing they get Kickstarter dollars -- but who knows. Often times licensing music and such is what it is. You just have to pay the piper so to speak.
 
Looks like the first 2 DLC packs will release at the same time (possibly in the same pack)... So that is good news.

Bad news though... it will be at least 3 weeks before we get the DLC.
 
The Kickstarter project for Twilight Zone is up... but it does not include Xbox 360. :( The are saying that Microsoft won't allow them to do it. I wonder what Microsoft's beef is, or if there is more to the story? Either way it's disappointing. :(

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1067367405/pinball-arcade-the-twilight-zone

I may do it anyway as I also play on iOS, but I prefer playing on 360 and I don't have a PS3. Maybe I'll get one, but it's not really on my radar yet. The minimum amount is $10. Which is still a huge amount less than a real TZ, but is a lot for a single machine DLC.

Also somewhat bothersome to me is that at the $100 you'll get a version with access to the operator menus. That's a feature I want in Pinball Arcade in general, not limited to TZ and to people paying a much larger amount for it.
 
Just to clarify, TZ *will* be released for the 360.

When they said "not for the 360," they don't mean the table itself -- they're talking about getting it as a perk for making a Kickstarter donation. So if you contribute $10, you get the table for any platform except the Xbox because MS isn't allowing Farsight to do that. You also can't get the TZ with the operator menu on the 360 because that also involves making a larger Kickstarter contribution. Must be some kind of legal/contractual issue that MS has with that kind of thing, who knows.

The table itself will be available for the 360 as regular DLC, if the Kickstarter thing goes through.
 
That's alright then. I'll back it and get the iOS version out of that, then buy the DLC for 360. That works for me. Thanks for the clarification. They also say if they go over their goal they'll be able to bring in other licensed games too, so hopefully this does really well. I still wish they were bringing the operator menus to all the games. Since they are emulating I don't understand why that isn't there already anyway.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']That's alright then. I'll back it and get the iOS version out of that, then buy the DLC for 360. That works for me. Thanks for the clarification. They also say if they go over their goal they'll be able to bring in other licensed games too, so hopefully this does really well. I still wish they were bringing the operator menus to all the games. Since they are emulating I don't understand why that isn't there already anyway.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree with you. I'll probably give them $10 and take the Android version, and buy the DLC for the 360. The $100 for the operator menus and other perks seem a bit high, but who knows, there might be some pinball crazies out there who might splurge for them!

Will be interesting to see how they do. Up to $2500 an hour or so after the announcement...which is pretty good...but $55K is a ways away still. Hope it's not just an initial rush from the hardcore and it dies down quickly.
 
Some have splurged on that already. Problem is that I want access to them to in all the games, and I guess this is an indication that we will never get that, or certainly not for Twilight Zone, because then they'd be screwing the people who paid $100 for the privilege. I doubt they'd do that.
 
Wow, that's awesome! If I understand that correctly everyone who donated to that will get Twilight Zone? I had no idea they licensed it. Is it too late to donate now? Also, what ever happened to all the DLC for this?

Also, this is totally late but thank you for the great Black Hole tips, Viva. I still don't think this will ever happen but great info nonetheless. I just need to rescue te princess for AN wizard goals. What do you guys think the easiest way to earn jewels is? Just completing the genie tales?
 
There's still a couple weeks left in the Kickstarter, so no it's not too late. They need to get to the goal for it to pan out, though (you won't pay anything unless they do reach the goal). $10 gets you the game on one platform. There's various bonuses at other levels.
 
Thanks, crunc. $10 seems a bit steep for one table but I would really like to see this precedent happen and that is an all-time great table. I'll probably donate. So it is just going to show up for those that donate? Is it clear yet if it will have any goals or achievements? Is this going to be available to the public as well?

Sorry if I missed this as I've been away from the thread but is there any clear time for the DLC to come out? Too bad the business model is to mix repeats with doling out new content.
 
[quote name='gubmccargen']Thanks, crunc. $10 seems a bit steep for one table but I would really like to see this precedent happen and that is an all-time great table. I'll probably donate. So it is just going to show up for those that donate? Is it clear yet if it will have any goals or achievements? Is this going to be available to the public as well?[/QUOTE]

It'll be available like any other DLC, should they reach the KS goal (which it seems highly likely they will).
 
Yeah, I don't think it necessarily will be $10 either. So put money in to make it happen, but don't expect a deal. Myself, I put in $25, because I want that custom TZ virtual pinball to use in all the games. :) And because it goes toward making it happen. I do wish they'd add a bonus of some sort for the $10 level, so they get something unique as well. Maybe they'll add something later.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']Yeah, I don't think it necessarily will be $10 either. [/QUOTE]

I'd imagine it'd be priced like any other DLC since they already raised the money to secure the license.

[quote name='crunchewy']I do wish they'd add a bonus of some sort for the $10 level, so they get something unique as well. Maybe they'll add something later.[/QUOTE]

Can't see that happening. I mean, you are, at least, getting the table at that level. They need people to pledge higher amounts so the unique bonuses are reserved for them. Not that I'd be up for giving them more than $10, but it's the bigger donations that are really pushing this over the limit for them...which is good to see :)

So put money in to make it happen, but don't expect a deal.
Click to expand...

Exactly, the whole point of this is fundraising to help THEM out. It's not about giving the consumer a "deal," it's to generate $$ to make the release happen in the first place.
 
FarSight has now confirmed that if they reach $110,000 they will also make the StarTrek: The Next Generation table.

The rewards are the same except if you donate you will now get them for both Star Trek and Twilight Zone. So the $10.00 donation level gets you Star Trek and Twilight Zone for the platform of your choice and so on.
 
[quote name='Redrazorback']FarSight has now confirmed that if they reach $110,000 they will also make the StarTrek: The Next Generation table.

The rewards are the same except if you donate you will now get them for both Star Trek and Twilight Zone. So the $10.00 donation level gets you Star Trek and Twilight Zone for the platform of your choice and so on.[/QUOTE]

This is enough to get me to donate! Hope they reach the 110k mark!
 
I'm not familiar enough to know when dlc is released. When the first dlc for Pinball Arcade comes out can it be any day of the week or is dlc released on a certain day of the week?
 
Yeah, I didn't mean that I thougt the actual DLC would have been $10 as that would be suicide. Rather I meant that if you are donating with the main intent to get the table then $10 would be high. It's for a worthy cause, though, of course. Wow, TNG possibly, too? I hope that happens.

Now I might as well make my obligatory requests for Addams Family, Terminator, and Top Gun.
 
[quote name='Redrazorback']FarSight has now confirmed that if they reach $110,000 they will also make the StarTrek: The Next Generation table.

The rewards are the same except if you donate you will now get them for both Star Trek and Twilight Zone. So the $10.00 donation level gets you Star Trek and Twilight Zone for the platform of your choice and so on.[/QUOTE]This would be so sweet! I'm going to be checking back a lot to see how they're doing. Right now they're slightly over $58,000.

I kicked in $10, but I'm tempted to go back and make it $25 for the virtual TZ ball (and possibly TNG ball, too)
 
Sigh. Another delay for the Xbox. Looks like July now (hopefully) for the DLC packs (which will be out later this month on the PS3) and lighting update.

Even if MS' rules and regs are difficult, I have a hard time believing Farsight couldn't have better planned this out from the beginning. No matter what, going from April until July with no new tables and no updates for what they say is their 'lead platform' is a huge disappointment. On the other pinball board, one of the Farsight reps once posted that they wouldn't have much trouble getting the updates for XBLA cleared regardless of size -- apparently, he was misinformed.

From their FB page:

We have been having difficulty getting Microsoft to approve the new tables for the Xbox 360. The problem centers around a little-known Microsoft limitation of 4 MB on the size of the title update for the game code. We can package the data for each table separately, but the code for the new tables is larger than 4 MB and must be in the update. We have finally convinced them to grant us an exception, so we'll be resubmitting all 4 new tables tomorrow and rolling them out to you just as quickly as we can. We'll announce the date when we know it.
 
I'm very disappointed! I love XBLA games to death, but the way MS runs that department when it comes to updates and DLC makes me sick! And I'm sure it's not all MS fault... I bet Farsight didn't plan and design the game properly (why would DLC require a large title update each time?). I think mostly due to the "gotta release on every platform imaginable" mentality, instead of focusing on 1 or 2 platforms and doing it right. We were promised monthly DLC, and it doesn't look like we are going to be getting it any time soon. *Sigh*

Between the delays and the DLC structure (release 1 new and 1 old as a pack) I am really starting to dislike Farsight as a business. I respect what they do, but I believe they could have done it a lot better.

It's rough being a pinball fan right now... Nothing but delays. Hopefully Zen will get the Avengers pack out to us this month.
 
[quote name='phantomfriar2002']Sigh. Another delay for the Xbox. Looks like July now (hopefully) for the DLC packs (which will be out later this month on the PS3) and lighting update.

Even if MS' rules and regs are difficult, I have a hard time believing Farsight couldn't have better planned this out from the beginning. No matter what, going from April until July with no new tables and no updates for what they say is their 'lead platform' is a huge disappointment. On the other pinball board, one of the Farsight reps once posted that they wouldn't have much trouble getting the updates for XBLA cleared regardless of size -- apparently, he was misinformed.

From their FB page:

We have been having difficulty getting Microsoft to approve the new tables for the Xbox 360. The problem centers around a little-known Microsoft limitation of 4 MB on the size of the title update for the game code. We can package the data for each table separately, but the code for the new tables is larger than 4 MB and must be in the update. We have finally convinced them to grant us an exception, so we'll be resubmitting all 4 new tables tomorrow and rolling them out to you just as quickly as we can. We'll announce the date when we know it.[/QUOTE]

I have to believe FarSight Studios has a hand in this. Because if you look at the Minecraft developer's Twitter posts, the updates for Minecraft are coming fast and heavy. they already have a bug update near finished. and a version update coming up very soon.
 
[quote name='dirtyvu']I have to believe FarSight Studios has a hand in this. Because if you look at the Minecraft developer's Twitter posts, the updates for Minecraft are coming fast and heavy. they already have a bug update near finished. and a version update coming up very soon.[/QUOTE]

Since Minecraft is their top title right now, I wouldn't doubt Microsoft is sorta pushing these updates out quicker since it's making them more money. Sure those updates are free, but it does keep a larger fanbase happy.

Just my two cents.
 
As far as Minecraft, that is a hugely more successful game and Microsoft is going to give them first access. Plus there have been no updates to Minecraft yet, so I'm not sure what is being claimed here anyway.
 
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With only 6 days to go until this Kickstarter ends, I'd like to stress how important it is for everyone to up your pledge to reach the stretch goal vs waiting until another Kickstarter is started just for ST: TNG.
PiN WiZ originally posted this on the KS comments, so I can't take credit for it. Thanks for all of your support here CAGS, you guys are awesome.

$10 PLEDGES : If you're on this level, if we don't reach the stretch goal, you'll get one free copy of TZ and then would have to pledge another $10 on the ST:TNG Kickstarter to get one free copy of that as well. If you DOUBLE UP NOW ($20, which is what you'll pledge either way) and we reach the stretch goal, you'll get two copies of TZ and two copies of ST:TNG.
Better yet, if you up your pledge to $25 now, you'll get two copies of TZ, two copies of ST:TNG plus a TZ and ST:TNG virtual ball. Bottom line, you get more bang for your buck by doubling your pledge (or moving up to $25) NOW.
__________
$25 PLEDGES : If you're on this level, if we don't reach the stretch goal, you'll get two free copies of TZ and a TZ virtual ball and then would have to pledge another $25 on the ST:TNG Kickstarter to get two fee copies of ST:TNG and a ST:TNG virtual ball. If you DOUBLE UP NOW ($50, which is what you'll pledge either way) and we reach the stretch goal, you'll get two copies of TZ, two copies of ST:TNG, a TZ and ST:TNG virtual ball...plus, your name listed in the credits, a TZ and ST:TNG Wallpaper for a device of your choice and entry into both TZ and ST:TNG Supporters Tournaments. Once again, you get more bang for your buck by doubling your pledge NOW.
__________
$100 PLEDGES : If you're on this level (as I am and will be doubling my pledge as well), you already know either way you're going to have to spend $200 to get the operator's menu on both TZ and ST:TNG and without us DOUBLING OUR PLEDGES NOW, this Kickstarter will never make the stretch goal. We don't get anything extra for doubling up, but the majority of the people on this level and up are more than likely ready to do what ever it takes to get TZ and ST:TNG funded now Vs. having to wait another month to get the rest of ST:TNG funded. Bottom line, we're not pledging any more than what we would if we had to pledge $100 on two separate Kickstarters.
__________
I hate to say this, but here goes... if it puts your mind at ease and allows you to go ahead and double up now, if for any reason at the 11th hour (the last two hours of the Kickstarter Project) it looks like we're not going to make the stretch goal, you always have the option to cut your pledge in half that way you won't lose out on any of the ST:TNG rewards and then you can pledge that money to the ST:TNG Kickstarter Project...hopefully it won't come to this. I can't stress this enough, if you're going to go this route, please WAIT until the last two hours of this project to make your decision to cut your pledge in half ONLY IF NEEDED.
__________
There you have it, those are the three pledge levels that hold the key into reaching the stretch goal now Vs. having to go through another month long Kickstarter just to get the rest of the money needed to license ST:TNG. It's in all our best interest to get both tables funded now that way FarSight can get back to focusing on putting out monthly DLC and get to work on both of these tables so that we'll have them by the end of this year. If these two tables are a huge success for FarSight, this may be the last Kickstarter FarSight will ever need and we can all get back to playing pinball and let FarSight do their thing.
 
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unless a miracle happens, $110K is not going to happen...

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I believe they've said if they don't make it to the stretch goal, they will have a second kickstarter for the remaining amount needed... but it'd sure be a lot better if this one KS got us both games.
 
According to the FS employee on the pinballarcadefans board, the DLC could be out at any time, once MS approves it. They're in a holding pattern but are in contact with MS about why it hasn't been released yet...they just, still, don't know what the hold up is.

If you try and fire up the game now, there's an update that doesn't do very much (it's not the update with the lighting fixes, but fine-tunes the dot matrix display), but at least there's something there. Hopefully it won't take much longer to get the first two DLC packs out there.

These delays between FS and MS have probably cost this game plenty, sad to say. Between MS' stringent requirements and FS looking like they jumped the gun in an overly ambitious release schedule -- and not planned on this type of thing -- this has been a massive disappointment for Xbox players.
 
Yeah. This game is probably dead in the water thanks to all these delays. Hopefully the other platforms do well enough to keep them going with content.
 
Thanks for the info. I kind of have the dead in the water fear too, which is a real shame. I've always enjoyed this take on virtual pinball a little better than Zen's and have really been looking forward to the DLC.
 
all it takes to bring fans back is to have the tables out. once they're out, everyone will forget about the problems.

the crazy release schedule on so many platforms is the problem. even companies like EA, Ubisoft, Activision don't release on so many platforms at the same time. let alone a small company like FarSight Studios...

at least the benefit of this delay is we're going to have a bunch of tables at once instead of a few at a time, at least from what I remember of the statements they made.
 
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