Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

mykevermin said:
This was inevitable. Like Fallout? Like Blue Pants?

http://www.prowrestlingtees.com/vault-girl.html
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The original WWE shirt is still one of my favorite wrestling shirts ever made. Why would you want that when you can wear this?

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The WWE Network Facebook page ha been sharing a ton of Kurt Angle videos lately. Add that to the fact that he keeps mentioning in every single interview, no matter the question, that he's taking at least a year off from wrestling, and I think it's a sure thing that he's going to be in WWE very soon. Royal Rumble hype!
 
I don't see that much Angle. Sure, he's on there being highlighted recently. But so is Honky Tonk Man, and I don't think we're gonna see him show up in the Rumble.

 
I fully believe in the next 2-3 years Angle returns to the WWE but I would be shocked if he ever has a match again. If he does have a match I bet its a one off retirement match and not a series of matches or a main event.

 
Part of me wonders if he's put it off for so long because he knows how strict they are with their testing policy these days. Maybe he takes a year off to get clean so they don't have to suspend him a month into his new contract.
 
ProfessorStotch said:
Part of me wonders if he's put it off for so long because he knows how strict they are with their testing policy these days. Maybe he takes a year off to get clean so they don't have to suspend him a month into his new contract.
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Most of what I have read online makes it sound like its HHH. Dont know if its true, but seen a lot of sites reporting that Angle has reached out to the WWE and every time cant get past HHH. It sounds like its less about drugs/booze and more just his general condition. He is seen as being soooooo beaten up that its a risk and liabilty to put him in the ring. I can see how they might look at Angle and just see the media nightmare it would be to deal with of Angle dying because of something that happened at thier show or worse in the actual ring.

 
Anyone watch NJPW with any regularity? Wrestle Kingdom 10 is tomorrow (well, tonight at 2AM EST) live on NJPWorld. It will be broadcast live in English, too.

Speaking of which, the currency conversion rate makes is out to be $8.29/month to subscribe.

 
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I try to watch all the major events (missed the Tag League event). Not as hyped as I was for last year's event (mainly cause we already saw Okada/Tanahashi in the main event one year ago). Only one I'm looking forward to is Nakamura/Styles, that should be an instant classic right there.

 
Saying the Divas division is an afterthought is a pretty ridiculous claim in 2015. It could have better treatment (i.e., more than one angle), but the matches are better than ever by a country mile, and the women are treated more like women and less like fuckable bodies on parade. It's definitely moving in the right direction.

Also suggesting people have a hard time accepting Cena as a babyface shows that the writer isn't viewing this objectively at all. Dude is the mega, mega, mega over babyface of the company. fucking hell, even many of us were complimenting the quality matches he was putting on during his US Championship run last year. Contrast what Cena has done for the title versus what the title means since ADR won it from Cena. It takes ages to build and moments to destroy (that's on creative more than ADR).

Creative and Vince. Yes, sure, definitely. Vince as evil leader trying to thwart Roman at every turn was stale before it even started. But it's twofold: guys are killed off before they're established (Tyler Breeze is, as I think Matt Young noted, on a one-way trip to Fandango status, before he's accomplished anything of value on WWE), and the story narrative arcs are too similar. Similar story arcs aren't a problem if well told, or if you care about the underlying players, or if those underlying players are presented in a way to make you care about them (see: Star Wars The Force Awakens). WWE is not Star Wars in terms of brand identity and association.

 
I thought the divas had a pretty good year. Bayley and Sasha Banks main evented a PPV and the main roster ladies have put on some good matches. They also seem to be getting more matches per Raw / Smackdown and the reality show definitely helps get them more exposure and additional income. 

 
mykevermin said:
Anyone watch NJPW with any regularity? Wrestle Kingdom 10 is tomorrow (well, tonight at 2AM EST) live on NJPWorld. It will be broadcast live in English, too.

Speaking of which, the currency conversion rate makes is out to be $8.29/month to subscribe.
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I do. I've been severely behind on wrestling for pretty much all of 2015, having recently caught up on ROH in September or October. I'm currently working on NJPW. I just started the the G1 tournament yesterday and I'm watching Styles/Shibata from the first night right now. I actually just signed up for njpwworld.com yesterday. Have you had any issues with their player? I've used it on three different computers (two different connections) and every once in a while it will buffer multiple times and a few times it's stopped to the point where I have to refresh the page. Hopefully this is just an anomaly. For $8 and change, though, I can be patient.

EDIT: WK10 is 1.4.2015 so I believe, for us, it starts Monday morning at 3:00am EST (5:00pm JST, 14 hours ahead of EST).

 
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TheRock88 said:
I try to watch all the major events (missed the Tag League event). Not as hyped as I was for last year's event (mainly cause we already saw Okada/Tanahashi in the main event one year ago). Only one I'm looking forward to is Nakamura/Styles, that should be an instant classic right there.
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Plus last year we go to see Okada cry. This might make me a jerk but I got such a laugh out of that. It just seemed amusingly odd in that particular context.

Hopefully AJ's back will hold up. Rumors say that he definitely needs some time off.

 
I think I would still qualify the Divas division as an afterthought. Lets be honest most of the year was not spent on the "Divas revolution" and while the division has come a long way in the last few months it still feels like an afterthought. Outside the Divas title are there major feuds and story lines? Even at the top level the time women get is still incredibly short and many of the plots feel like they are secondary to the mens division.

Like I said the WWE deserves credit for the improvement they made in the second half of the year, but I think people are treating them with kid gloves by saying that improvement = divas not afterthought. Frankly I wish they would just give women their own show, they deserve it and I feel the time is right. There is fast becoming a glut of talented female wrestlers, more then even with NXT the WWE can keep employed under their current show models. At the same time women and young women are an underrepresented market. I fully believe if they gave women their own show and from the ground up targeted it to appeal to hardcore wrestling fans at the top(meaning talented worker champs like Sasha and Flair)and young girls at the bottom and mid levels that they could have a huge hit on their hands.

Giving women their own division also opens up the use of women on RAW/Smackdown as valets again as well. When women have their own show and are being properly represented it is not as big of a deal having a sexed up skimply dressed women like Sable as arm candy or in a bikini match. You could even still have serious matches between the Womens champ on RAW to help highlight the women's show and talent and again stress they are not just the arm candy of a Sable/Lana.

 
The writer is trying to say that the characters and matches were better during the Lita/Trish era than today. Saying "it used to be better, therefore fewer people watch now" is not the same thing as saying that they deserve more attention/airtime. I can totally agree with that.

I think that's utter nonsense.

 
Work unfortunately has interfered with watching WrestleKingdom 10 live this year, but definitely looking forward to watching it when I get off work. I did however stumble across a nice little min-doc on one of my favorite talents in New Japan right now and that is Kenny Omega. 

 
Some really really great surprises in the New Japan Rumble so far (OMG another one just now!). The altered music is fine b/c of licensing, etc, but they have a caption each and every time that's distracting and irritating.

Yoshi Tatsu is not cut out to be an English commentator, however. Woof.

 
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mykevermin said:
Some really really great surprises in the New Japan Rumble so far (OMG another one just now!). The altered music is fine b/c of licensing, etc, but they have a caption each and every time that's distracting and irritating.

Yoshi Tatsu is not cut out to be an English commentator, however. Woof.
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Oh man! I forgot Yoshi was doing commentary for WK10. I can't imagine anyway he could possibly be good at commentary, I imagine his English is decent enough though or they wouldn't even have attempted it.

 
You would think that.

But nope.

So the preshow starts off with the NJPW of Wrestlemania X-Seven's "Gimmick Battle Royal" (and man, it's amazing how many classic dudes show up). One of them is a pretty legendary US wrestler and all-around tough guy, whose son is in NJPW (I suppose that's *kinda* giving it away, but I digress). Yoshi's commentary is roughly "Yeah. He's, uh, yeah. He has a great wrestling family. Yeah." He may be crucial in helping the English team understand elements of the storylines, or simply translate the Japanese on the fly (it's clear from Matt Striker's pronunciation of Japanese names that's he's not studying the language at all) - but he can do that without being on commentary. Put him in a production position. It was pretty bad.

But this song and dance routine to promote the new Doraemon movie is pretty stunning. I have no fucking clue what I'm watching - and I used to watch a ton of Doraemon in order to facilitate my language study a decade ago. :)

 
YeeeeeeaOh!

BTW, Wrestle Kingdom 10 was amazing. Styles v Nakamura delivered as expected (which is high praise), but for me, Ishii vs Shibata has been one absolute must see match of 2016.

Tyler Breeze career trajectory update: he worked WWE Superstars this week. Woof. Way to go, creative.

 
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I pray that WWE doesnt misuse Shinsuke Nakamura. It will sicken me to see them turn him into a comedy act like they usually do with Japanese stars.

 
Haven't finished up WrestleKingdom 10 yet, but I did skip ahead to watch Nakamura vs. Styles before Raw last night and man they delivered. If that is truly the last big match these two have in NJPW, it was definitely an epic one. 

As far for the rumors of Shinsuke, AJ, Gallows, and Anderson singing with WWE. I'll believe when I see it, but I definitely hope it is! AJ Styles has been my favorite wrestler since I first saw him in NWA Wildside in the early 2000s and Nakamura is the most charismatic man in professional wrestling today. Gallows and Anderson are also both solid workers and a great tag-team. 

 
MushaOne said:
I pray that WWE doesnt misuse Shinsuke Nakamura. It will sicken me to see them turn him into a comedy act like they usually do with Japanese stars.
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That was my second thought after some initial excitement. I've gotten the chance to see Nakamura up close 2-3 times in the States when NJPW does shows w/ ROH. I like Nakamura as he is *now*. If they change his name to something they can trademark, *finnnnne*, I guess. That's their corporate priority. If they saddle him with some "me so oriental" racist-ass gimmick (Hirohito wasn't *that* long ago), or bury him because his English sucks (see: Yoshi Tatsu, Ultimo Dragon).

That all said, there is an opportunity to change trajectory. WWE is killing it with women in NXT, and slowly learning that lesson in WWE (since "main roster" is a bit of a verboten term that implies NXT is hierarchically below it, when we all know NXT is far superior as a product). There's no reason that they have to do what they always have done with ESL wrestlers.

You can be confident that Gallows and Gun won't be able to behave the way they usually do (where every other word out of their mouth is 'fuck'.). But they can and do deserve a chance in WWE. Anderson for the first time, and Gallows to show just how much he's grown (or was not given a reasonable shot) since his last WWE run. Make WWE eat that "Festus" was dumb as fuck, and that you're a great wrestler now.

Sigma: I swear to God, Ishii v Shibata. Don't skip it. Styles v Nakamura was better, but I expected it to be. Ishii v Shibata, I had small to no expectations (mostly how little I knew about those guys) and they WAY exceeded it. Naito vs Goto was also really good (fucking hell Naito is a great heel), the IWGP tag title match was solid, and the IWGP Jr tag 4-way was joyous to watch.

(That all said, it's hard to watch NJPW and go back to WWE thinking the latter has too many titles ;))

 
I am still holding out hope that NXT can become somewhat separate from WWE. Maybe have some guys be pulled to the main roster, but still keep a solid base of the more "indy" guys who actually want to wrestle. Let WWE Raw and Smackdown be their mainstream shows and let NXT be there for the fans of wrestling. Maybe for once just let the guys keep their established ring names.

I finally watched the preshow Royal Rumble match, I didnt even think that the Great Kabuki was still alive. Was fun to see him and some of the other old timers.

 
ProfessorStotch said:
Reigns wins the Rumble again, confirmed.
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OVERCOME THE ODDS!

Is it the booking that's awful, or just that the person is wrong?

Think about when HBK won the Rumble from #1, or when Crispin Wah did the same thing, or Mysterio...no matter how you felt about them, you respected their body of work. HBK was a heel, but you felt he deserved to win it - and it wasn't so obviously telegraphed in advance.

Actually, didn't Steve Austin win a Rumble (98? 99?) under similar circumstances? McMahon "put a bounty" on him, and he defied the odds to beat everyone else and win?

I think it's a matter of respect: people who like Reigns like him, but very few people can reasonably say "I respect him" or "he's earned it." By comparison, I think even Cena has that level of respect now (that's disputable, sure) - but it's taken him over a decade in WWE alone to get there, almost the entirety of his career.

Which will be another interesting historical revision: I think history will be *very* kind to Cena and the matches/feuds he had, while he was persistently booed by adult male smarks during his career. I also think HHH will be on the opposite end: history will reveal him to be a power hungry, insecure, paranoid Ole Anderson type. Sure, he's doing great, great work with NXT, but he was ruinously awful at the top of the card in the 2000's. His matches were good, but I was so fucking sick of him (not in a good way) by 2005.

Anyway, sure, Reigns wins again. Would be hilarious if the crowd heeled him the way Philly did last year.

 
I think Romain Reigns was thrown in a spot he shouldnt be in, yet. They needed to take time to build him and get the fans behind him BEFORE shoving him down our throats. For me, I resent him because I think Cesaro should be in the position he is in now. If they had this all be a swerve and have Reigns turn heel, and align with McMahon in the end to win the Rumble I wouldnt mind. Him overcoming the odds and winning doesnt interest me.

 
While the idea of a long term heel turn for Reigns sounds great, they should have pulled that particular trigger at Survivor Series. I also think that waiting until Royal Rumble creates too much "why did they do this during the buildup?" confusion. Also, the biggest problem: who do you move into top babyface contention?

Another potential wrinkle that might make you pay more attention to Reigns: suppose they move Owens into a feud with him. Take the time now to (re)establish Owens as a killer, as someone who will take you out and is a hired gun. Perfect for a McMahon alignment. Get the WWE crowd to see the Owens that disassembled Sami Zayn and feed him to Reigns in a PPV main event.

Lastly, who are you going with for the WM main event? It's 2016 right now, so you gotta build to that.

New Day's new entrance video is so good, it's almost as good as Xavier Wood's Iron Sheik boots.

 
mykevermin said:
That was my second thought after some initial excitement. I've gotten the chance to see Nakamura up close 2-3 times in the States when NJPW does shows w/ ROH. I like Nakamura as he is *now*. If they change his name to something they can trademark, *finnnnne*, I guess. That's their corporate priority. If they saddle him with some "me so oriental" racist-ass gimmick (Hirohito wasn't *that* long ago), or bury him because his English sucks (see: Yoshi Tatsu, Ultimo Dragon).

That all said, there is an opportunity to change trajectory. WWE is killing it with women in NXT, and slowly learning that lesson in WWE (since "main roster" is a bit of a verboten term that implies NXT is hierarchically below it, when we all know NXT is far superior as a product). There's no reason that they have to do what they always have done with ESL wrestlers.

You can be confident that Gallows and Gun won't be able to behave the way they usually do (where every other word out of their mouth is 'fuck'.). But they can and do deserve a chance in WWE. Anderson for the first time, and Gallows to show just how much he's grown (or was not given a reasonable shot) since his last WWE run. Make WWE eat that "Festus" was dumb as fuck, and that you're a great wrestler now.

Sigma: I swear to God, Ishii v Shibata. Don't skip it. Styles v Nakamura was better, but I expected it to be. Ishii v Shibata, I had small to no expectations (mostly how little I knew about those guys) and they WAY exceeded it. Naito vs Goto was also really good (fucking hell Naito is a great heel), the IWGP tag title match was solid, and the IWGP Jr tag 4-way was joyous to watch.

(That all said, it's hard to watch NJPW and go back to WWE thinking the latter has too many titles ;))
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I'll definitely go back and watch the rest of WK10, I just skipped ahead to see Nakamura and Styles because I wanted to watch Raw and had been hyped on the Nakamura and Styles match for months now so I had to see it. I've heard that Ishii vs Shibata and Hashi vs. Okada were both epic matches as well. I also love Naito as a heel, he's brilliant.

If Nakamura really does sign with WWE. I really hope they pair him with Heyman, he'd be such a perfect Paul Heyman guy and he has a little bit of history with Brock Lesnar as well.

 
The Meltzer-rumor-rounds are suggesting that Styles and Nakamura have both signed big $$$ deals and are expected to jump straight to WWE or spend precious little time in NXT.

I'm just not sure I can believe that - it's totally out of line with WWE's character to acknowledge that people ever worked in another promotion, let alone acknowledge that they gained worldwide popularity there (or that they are excellent pro wrestlers without WWE's involvement).

Also, history shows that even if you were mega over somewhere else, you're gonna sit your ass in NXT for a while - Samoa Joe, Prince Devitt, Dos Caras, Claudio Castagnoli, Bryan Danielson, Kevin Steen, Hunico (and Samuray), Brodie Lee, PAC, Rusev, Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, Stu Barrett...do I need to go on?

Sting is the only person I can think of to go straight to WWE. I see no way WWE does this with Styles, let alone Nakamura.

 
I'm partway through WK10. Really good stuff so far. About to start up the IWGP tag titles match.

EDIT: Done. That was an awesome show from top to bottom. AJ/Nakamura was easily my favorite of the bunch. The main event was great, but I started getting blown out both from the longevity and all the false finishes.

 
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It almost makes sense for Styles to be a surprise entrant in the Rumble, considering it's in Orlando and all the history he has in that city.

 
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Nah I don't care if reigns wins. It just sucks that we know he's going to win three weeks in advance. That should've been something they announced the week before. But I understand why they didn't because then people would be wondering why they weren't building for a main event title match.
 
pitfallharry219 said:
I really wish they'd end the whole "winner gets a title match at Wrestlemania" stipulation. Then maybe there would be a little suspense to the outcome.
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Well, that's 100% going to be the case this year, yes?

What if they had a stip where "dude with most eliminations challenges the winner for the WWE championship"?

 
I hope they actually throw us a curve and not have Roman win the Rumble just so we can be genuinely surpised. And while we're on the subject...

Can WWE please stop trying to recreate the magic of Austin vs Mcmahon with Roman? That was a very organic feud that played out over the course of years. They're trying to do the same thing in the span of about 2-3 months. It doesn't work that way.

Also, they're really putting all their eggs in one basket with Roman. He's the only one getting any attention, the only one in the main event scene, and the only person in the company allowed to be a star. In the Attitude Era, when Stone Cold had to sit out for a year with his neck injury, you had The Rock, Triple H, Mankind, Kurt Angle, Jericho to pick up the slack. Back then they understood the importance of having a diverse main event scene and building new stars. No such thing here.

If Roman goes down with another injury tomorrow, they're booking is fucked three ways from Sunday. 

 
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I see where you're at, but I'm not going to ask for changing the main event. They've been trying to recreate evil owner vs resilient babyface for 15 years now.

I'd rather see them spend time building the rest of the roster.

New Day is over as fuck, and while they're ready to turn babyface, they also have a lot of heel fuel left before they should turn, honestly.

WWE has a pretty solid tag division - NXT alone is incredible, let alone WWE's tag roster.

Soo...what's the tag feud going into the Royal Rumble? What's been done to build the Usos lately? Prime Time Players? Ascension? Sin Cara getting hurt probably put the brakes on a Lucha Dragons/New Day RR match. But back to square one, sadly. Get someone else in line, and start giving the crowd reasons to get amped about it. Right now New Day is killing it with promos, but they're not given a team to feud with (or a reason to feud with them). That's irresponsible writing - charisma alone isn't enough.

 
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Tyler Breeze is picking up wins on WWE C-level shows this week like he's John fucking Cena.

I'd be begging to go back to NXT at this point if I were him.

 
mykevermin said:
Right now New Day is killing it with promos, but they're not given a team to feud with (or a reason to feud with them). That's irresponsible writing - charisma alone isn't enough.
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You're right, New Day should just hold an open challenge saying they've beaten everyone and so forth and then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJDjsZH-ic

/fantasy booking

But really, who else are they supposed to feud with? Nobody else can touch them on promos, which is the only thing that will make for an interesting rivalry with a team whose largest asset is their charisma.

 
Finally got around to finishing WK10 and once again it didnt disappoint. Styles/Nakamura might be match of the year and Tanahashi/Okada was much better than I expected.
 
And with the news of the 4 NJPW guys jumping ship. Holy shit, I'd never thought that would ever happen (especially Nakamura). Maybe that dream match that Daniel Bryan was talking about with Nakamura might actually happen now.

Oh also if you didnt catch the New Year's Dash show from earlier today, even more evidence that Styles is leaving New Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hpZzIqGFn0&feature=youtu.be

 
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I'm sure most of you have already seen it, but WWE.com has posted an article regarding the rumors of the NJPW 4 signing deals and they talk a bit about all four men and even have a photo of them on the website. It's pretty surreal to see these guys on the WWE site, especially Nakamura. At this point I'd say the deal is all but done and at least one of these guys (likely AJ) will be showing up in the Royal Rumble. 

Did anyone catch Impact Wrestling on POP TV last night? Pretty typical TNA, but some nice little surprises and overall decent show. I haven't watched TNA in quite sometime, but I imagine this was better than a typical Impact from the last several months or year.  

 
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