Pro Wrestling discussion topic--WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, New Japan, indies

Rigor Mortis said:
How the hell is it 4:20 on tuesday afternoon and NOBODY is talking about
Kalisto beating Del Rio CLEAN for the US Title on RAW?

I honestly did not see that coming
considering how much Del Rio is getting paid. Please dont tell me this is a precursor to him getting the big belt at the rumble
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Try coming back at 4:21. Everyone is too busy at 4:20 reaching the stars man. Sorry, you left me low hanging fruit!

 
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mykevermin said:
Nakamura and NJPW have been synonymous for 10+ years now. I'd hate for things to end so bitterly. Let that be the realm of Konami and Kojima (Hideo, not Satoshi ;))
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Now if only Hideo would put a Konami executive against the turnbuckle and light him up with a series of slap chops while completely overselling it.

 
Something that happened on Smackdown was just spoiled for me. That something made me very sad, relatively speaking. Some of you are likely to share in my disappointment when you find out.
 
Matt Young said:
Something that happened on Smackdown was just spoiled for me. That something made me very sad, relatively speaking. Some of you are likely to share in my disappointment when you find out.
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Wonk wonk wonk! Welp that didnt last long! I know its just keeping the feud going between them but it feels way too soon, should have alteast gave it a few weeks since dude is not established talent.

 
Purple Flames said:
I just found out, and I'm not pleased at all.
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I knew it was going to happen as soon as they announced the match. Obviously sets up a rubber match at the Rumble, which will make this even more pointless regardless of who wins. Cena spent so much time last year building up the U.S. Title for it to just be back to where it was before Cena.

 
Bounce that shit around like your head booker was Vince Russo.

Kalisto was a nonentity on the singles scene before Sin Cara's injury. Giving him a competitive match series w/ Del Rio could do a lot to build him. The way they've set it up now, if Kalisto loses at Royal Rumble, then it presents his singles victories as a fluke and totally diminishes both him and the US title.

 
it's tough in the modern era. scoop your competition, even if they're trying to scoop you.

See also WWE seeking web traffic on the NJPW rumors.

 
It's definitely not the first time, though I still don't like it. Even before I had home internet access, my cousin told me about Mankind's first world title win after WWF.com spoiled it. That was 17 years ago.
 
Matt Young said:
It's definitely not the first time, though I still don't like it. Even before I had home internet access, my cousin told me about Mankind's first world title win after WWF.com spoiled it. That was 17 years ago.
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Tony Schivone spoiled it before anyone else on Nitro.

 
I definitely remember knowing Foley won the belt before it aired, and not due to Schiavone.  I'm thinking I either read it off of Scoops or Micasa.

 
mitch079 said:
I definitely remember knowing Foley won the belt before it aired, and not due to Schiavone. I'm thinking I either read it off of Scoops or Micasa.
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My friends who went to the taping told me well before Schiavone. But it was definitely all over the internet afterwards as well. Back then the internet rumors were as much apart of the Monday Night War as anything else. Reading about all the comings and goings, all the back stage fights, and then watching Raw and Nitro to see if any of the rumors were right. Great time to be a wrestling fan.

 
ludus said:
Maybe we'll see him win it back at the RR, doubtful, but I hope so.
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It's the only thing that would make any sense if they want to get Kalisto over as the top Mexican star. He definitely could be the next Rey Mysterio for the company if the handle him right, IMO Kalisto is much more talented and well rounded than Rey.

 
Matt Young said:
Myke:

http://411mania.com/wrestling/vince-mcmahon-ended-tyler-breezes-push/
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Again WWE is a playground for Vince and he is just past his prime. Like Tyler Breeze or not I do not see how ANYONE can think its a good idea to stop a wrestlers push after all of a freaking week or two. I mean even if you agree in Breezes case he was not worth the push, I dont see how anyone could think not even giving a wrestler a month is smart. Vince just seems to run the company as though not even HHHs thoughts matter, if he doesnt like it it doesnt happen. I get its his company so he can do as he wants, but the smart thing to do in business is recognize now matter how good your instincts, you cant bat 100.

 
MSI Magus said:
Again WWE is a playground for Vince and he is just past his prime. Like Tyler Breeze or not I do not see how ANYONE can think its a good idea to stop a wrestlers push after all of a freaking week or two. I mean even if you agree in Breezes case he was not worth the push, I dont see how anyone could think not even giving a wrestler a month is smart. Vince just seems to run the company as though not even HHHs thoughts matter, if he doesnt like it it doesnt happen. I get its his company so he can do as he wants, but the smart thing to do in business is recognize now matter how good your instincts, you cant bat 100.
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I love Breeze, but his debut was lackluster at best. Cooling off on his "push" is probably a good thing, as the old saying goes "the cream always rises to the top".

 
Just feel like posting this. It makes me smile every time, easily one of my fav moments in wrestling!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeTMkRKqmkw

 
Totally.

You'd think the WWE could save a ton of money by having Vince spend a portion of his month checking into dudes before they're moved up.

Breeze spent *years* in developmental (and arguably far longer than he should have) and within three weeks Vince takes one look at him and boom - career over. It's time and cost efficient to get that shit out of the way in advance.

I was talking with my wrestling goals with a coach the other week, and I made it clear that WWE isn't where I plan on going - I mean, aside from my height and age working against me, I've got a great career and flexibility to do shows here and there throughout the year. Working with that promotion is my goal. Having a match in public is my 2016 goal. It's heartbreaking to see people languish in developmental, and then have one guy (a guy with a clear Tom of Finland complex when it comes to talent) pull out the rug from under you the *instant* he sees you. Good fucking god, how demoralizing.

It makes you wonder just how hard people had to work to make sure they didn't make that mistake with Daniel Bryan however many years ago it was.

 
Got a free offer for WWE network this month. Out of curiosity have they finally finished any of the online catalogue? Like can you watch Nitro, Raw or NXT from start to finish yet? I know ECW is out of question......

 
Read something that said AJ won't be in the Rumble because WWE wants to include a video package with his debut since they think their fans are retarded and won't know who he is.

Also read something that said Kurt Angle is rasslin with Bobby Lashley at the end of the month. That's weird since he's coming back to WWE in 5 days.

Also, CM Punk videos on WWE Network's facebook page so expect him back in the Rumble too!

Best Rumble ever!

 
MSI Magus said:
Got a free offer for WWE network this month. Out of curiosity have they finally finished any of the online catalogue? Like can you watch Nitro, Raw or NXT from start to finish yet? I know ECW is out of question......
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Nitro is has some 1999 episodes up now in addition to the full run of 95-98, but it's just a few. That's about as close as any program has to a "complete" run at this point. Can't wait until we get to the disaster that was 2000 for that show.

 
I've been watching Nitro chronologically when I have time here and there, and 1996 it was pretty aimless, too. Pillman just "I respect you, bookerman"d his way out of the promotion, and the announcers are still talking about him like he's coming back. Giant Haystacks was shitting up the ring, I don't even know what they Harlem Heat/Sting and Luger/Jimmy Hart angle is all about.

It's pretty disastrous storytelling, all told. But there are still solid, solid matches to be seen. Most involving Mr JL and/or Eddy Guerrero.

The DDP v Booty Man match at Uncensored 1996 was the quintessential "Go 15 minutes and do absolutely nothing" match.

It's still worth watching, but WCW had problems in production and storytelling that go back a looooong ways. WWF Raw is also pretty lousy in hindsight. They're not all rose-tinted glasses.

 
I'm also doing the chronological Nitro thing...at least through Hall's debut, at which point I may jump off. Getting close now, up to March '96. The biggest surprise to me from going through all of this? Lex Luger was awesome during this period. He's basically a freakishly built monster that is also a total pussy, and a sleazebag idiot. Watching him play dumb whenever anyone questions his morals is hilarious. One of my favorite rasslin' exchanges ever is something I just discovered from this period:

Luger (after blindly accepting a street fight with LoD on Sting's behalf): I'm from Chicago, but I don't know what a Chicago Street Fight is.

Sting: What?!

Luger (in full "duh" mode): I don't know what a Chicago Street Fight is!

Sting (exasperated): WHY DON'T YOU GO BOUNCE YOUR PECS IN THE MIRROR AND THINK ABOUT IT!?! ::storms off::

Not that this is anything new, but coming away from this stuff - Sting, Flair, Luger, Giant, PILLMAN, Arn, and the ECW imports are all pretty awesome. Savage is decent but seems incapable of having more than 1 match a year where he looks dominant. Dungeon of Doom is incredibly stupid, but in a (mostly) good way. Hogan  and Beefcake are fucking garbage and good lord I hate them during this period (and I'm usually not someone who is super down on Hogan). For that matter, Beefcake may be #1 on my list of worst wrestlers ever, at least among those who got a lot of tv time / push. That corny, useless fucker is TERRIBLE. The fact that Hogan is literally the only reason he's there makes it that much worse. "Ok, time to put him in the main event with me despite being nothing for the last 6 months. Ok, make the hottest chick in the company suddenly fall in love with him out of nowhere." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you, Brutus Beefcake.

 
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I agree with every single bit of that. I've also really been impressed with Luger during this time, and I hate Beefcake more than ever before. Watching him feud with DDP over like, millions of dollars and Kimberly, I keep seeing matches and thinking "okay, THIS is when they pull the trigger on DDP and push him to the moon as a heel!" Sure enough, somehow Booty Man leaves with money, with the ladies, and gets booked to make out with Kimberly. He is the absolutely definition of "the drizzling shits," and the announcers have to sell his "High Knee" (HAW HAW) finisher.

I'll say this: it's *really fun* to hate on Beefcake, though I don't seem to recall when he transitioned from Zodiac (who he was when I started watching Nitro chronologically). Did they ever bother explaining?

 
...I forgot about "High Knee." Dear god make it stop.

A friend who is ALSO going through this time period on Nitro on the Network sent me a text the other day that simply said. "4/14/96 Nitro. fuck Hulk Hogan." I kind of can't wait to see how bad it is.

As far as Zodiac, the half-assed explanation on Nitro/PPVs was "he was a spy planted by Hogan" in the Dungeon of Doom. Which didn't make much sense. He was kinda-sorta holding The Giant back from beating on Hogan for a month or two before the switch - but even that was screwed up since he attacked Hogan at Superbrawl. Then one week he just ran out on Nitro to help Hogan and Savage and the announcers acted like they didn't recognize him.

Watching Hogan say "BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY" into the mic afterwords was good, but still not nearly enough to make up for me having to watch Beefcake make his stupid "intense" faces like he's some badass.

I wish I had it in front of me for the exact quote, but favorite thing I've read about Brutus came from the Dynamite Kid's book, where he was talking about how Beefcake tried to come off tough, but  "in reality, that fucking fairy couldn't beat the cat."

 
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Not to keep fellating Luger, but I'm not kidding, everyone needs to go watch the first few minutes of the 3/18/96 Nitro. That dude is the best part of the show. If I had to give a wrestler of the half year award for '96, Luger would be in my top 3. It's a shame once Hall and Nash showed up he went back to just being a regular good guy.

EDIT - Found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJp3sgldq9E

 
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I mean, now that I'm learning a bit about wrestling I've developed an appreciation for people I would have *never* given a second thought for before. It's safe to say that I might be the only one here who has watched Alicia Fox and said "holy shit look at that technique!"

So like who you like, I say. We can agree that Luger is killing it in that time frame, and history unfairly painted him as a big dumb lunk when he put on decent matches, cut decent promos, and the interplay across Sting and Hart in this time was really, really good. The appreciation for him is probably the disconnect between our memories of him and what he's actually doing - this is why we're not saying Arn Anderson is putting on gold matches at this time: we expect him to, because he's Arn Anderson. (And he is!)

I'm about two weeks behind you on Nitro, so I'm stoked to see the 3/18 show. 

 
mykevermin said:
It's safe to say that I might be the only one here who has watched Alicia Fox and said "holy shit look at that technique!"
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I kind of thought everyone liked Alicia? Is that not so? She's like the Randy Orton of the "diva's" division for me. She's not my favorite, but she's just so ridiculously athletic that it makes it fun to watch.

Unrelated side note: Went to both Chicago NXT shows. Hands down two of the best wrestling shows I've ever been to. Sure has grown a lot since I could tickets for $5 the night of at Full Sail. If you get the chance, go!

 
I didn't spend much time at all watching the WWE women since the Trish Stratus days, to be honest.

FYI, prowrestlingtees.com is only selling Shinsuke Nakamura gear through 1/31, so order now if you want anything.

 
I think Alicia is near the bottom of the list as far as in-ring ability on the current roster. The woman is gorgeous and athletic, and she can pull off a few nice maneuvers. But more often than not, she can't even make her finisher look decent. Nonetheless, I've seen a lot worse in WWE over the years.
 
mykevermin said:
I didn't spend much time at all watching the WWE women since the Trish Stratus days, to be honest.

FYI, prowrestlingtees.com is only selling Shinsuke Nakamura gear through 1/31, so order now if you want anything.
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I got that email and was just about to post the same thing.

 
MSI Magus said:
Got a free offer for WWE network this month. Out of curiosity have they finally finished any of the online catalogue? Like can you watch Nitro, Raw or NXT from start to finish yet? I know ECW is out of question......
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I haven't even checked that side of the Network yet. Been subbed for, a year I'd guess and I maybe watch a portion of a WCW PPV. I might check out some old Nitro episodes though.

 
Well, twenty years too late, but Sunny finally has a porn coming out. There is a preview of it on Vivids website. Its, erm... not as hot as teenager me envisioned. At least she doesnt have to sell her HoF ring anymore.

 
ludus said:
I haven't even checked that side of the Network yet. Been subbed for, a year I'd guess and I maybe watch a portion of a WCW PPV. I might check out some old Nitro episodes though.
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They have Nitro complete up to '97 and most of '98 I believe. They have also added a few episodes from '99 recently, I am really hoping they start adding 2000 and 2001 Nitro, which were it's worst days, but I want to relive the glorious trainwreck!

 
Royal Rumble is always a fun PPV in the moment, as the countdown and "ooh, will it be a surprise entrant?" element is always fun.

I'm going to try to enjoy it for what I can, and not get bent about the things I can't change.

It's funny to use the serenity prayer for pro wrestling, but there I go.

 
ProfessorStotch said:
Rumble is my favorite PPV. Anything can happen!

Except this year when Roman wins.
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The Rumble winner has been predictable the last several years. I think the odds of Triple H winning are higher than Roman coming out on top just because he's better in the role of chasing the title and it's painfully obvious they are setting up for a match with Roman and Triple H.

 
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