PSN Changing To SNEA - April 1st

I found these two paragraphs interesting:

Upon SNEA's confirmation of your purchase, access to the purchased item will be made available to you through your Sony Online Services account that you used to purchase the item, until such time as SNEA removes the item. We encourage you to download or access your purchased item immediately after purchase. You bear all risk of loss for accessing your content, including completing the download of any content, ensuring that you have the necessary capabilities to view your content, including content provided at high resolution/definition, and for any loss of content you have downloaded, including any loss due to a file corruption or hard drive crash. You are solely responsible if you do not choose to download or access the content before it is removed and for ongoing storage and safekeeping of your content. SNEA is not obligated to provide you with replacement copies for any reason.

If you do not have sufficient funds in your wallet to make a purchase and you have previously entered your credit card information, we may automatically charge your credit card a minimum amount determined by SNEA ("Minimum Fee") to make the purchase, even if the Minimum Fee exceeds the cost of your purchase. Any difference between the Minimum Fee and the cost of the purchase will be credited to your wallet. Additional procedures apply to subscription purchases. Please read Section 11 ("SUBSCRIPTIONS") of this Agreement for details. Purchases of access to content or services are not refundable.
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And another:

If SNEA determines in its sole discretion that you or your associated Sub Accounts have violated any term of this Agreement, the Usage Terms, or any other terms and conditions connected with Sony Online Services or have otherwise injured or damaged the Sony Online Services community, SNEA may take all actions to protect its interests, including termination or suspension of your Sony Online Services account (both the Master Account and any associated Sub Accounts), automatic removal or blockage of content, implementation of upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorized use, permanent or temporary disablement of any system or device through which you receive Sony Online Services or reliance on any other remedial efforts as necessary to remedy the violation. If the violation is in connection with content that you or your Sub Accounts have accessed, you must immediately cease use of such content and delete all copies from all of your devices. Upon termination of your account for any reason, you will not receive a refund for items (including subscriptions and pre-paid products or services), value accumulated on in-game items or any unused balance in your wallet except as required by law or as expressly provided in this Agreement. After your account is terminated, you will not be able to access Sony Online Services. Any game ranking or scores, or information in connection with Sony Online Services will not be retained or accessible by you or your associated Sub Accounts. In some situations, we may suspend or terminate your Master Account, but permit you to retain your associated Sub Accounts. If you do not terminate your Sub Accounts, you will be liable for all their acts. You may not alter any of the settings on your Master Account, including parental control settings placed on your Sub Accounts prior to the termination or suspension of your Master Account. Your Sub Accounts will be permitted to use the remaining funds in your wallet provided that the Sub Account has not exceeded the limit you placed on the Sub Account. Additionally, you will not receive further correspondence from SNEA about your Sub Accounts, including purchases made by your Sub Accounts. SNEA reserves the right to bring legal action and to participate in any government or private legal action or investigation relating to your conduct, which may require the disclosure of your information. Unless as otherwise stated in this Agreement, SNEA, at its sole discretion, may indefinitely suspend, or discontinue any and all online access to content at any time, including for maintenance service or upgrades, without prior notice or liability.
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According to this they can, at their discretion, delete all of your paid content and blow the eFUSES (brick your console).
 
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[quote name='Fell Open Ian']I found these two paragraphs interesting:



And another:



According to this they can, at their discretion, delete all of your paid content and blow the eFUSES (brick your console).
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']I found these two paragraphs interesting:



And another:



According to this they can, at their discretion, delete all of your paid content and blow the eFUSES (brick your console).
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']I found these two paragraphs interesting:



And another:



According to this they can, at their discretion, delete all of your paid content and blow the eFUSES (brick your console).
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Your loss then. This isn't an issue for 99.97% of all PSN users. What you pointed out has been in place since before Feb. The only change is the letters SCEA to SNEA. Everything else has been there for months and are things that you've already agreed to if you've been online.

http://ps3guide.net/sony-rolls-out-new-psn-terms-of-service-user-agreement-v8/[/QUOTE]

Look at the last paragraph I quoted again:

permanent or temporary disablement of any system or device through which you receive Sony Online Services
Click to expand...

That's the new part and it would cover blowing the eFUSES.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']Look at the last paragraph I quoted again:



That's the new part and it would cover blowing the eFUSES.[/QUOTE]

Like I said before, this will not affect 99.97% of all PSN users out there. If you play around with custom firmware, etc, and they catch you, then that's on you. This is a non-issue for everyone else. If you're so scared about it, then don't do it to begin with.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']At least you finally got around to reading the TOS you've skipped past for years, though that also means that the hypothetical stuff mentioned in it will probably never actually happen.

Looking at older versions of the TOS:


And:


These are from the June 2010 version of the TOS and they're probably still there in older versions of the TOS. None of this stuff is any sign that things will completely change next week.[/QUOTE]

Arguments destroyed.

Ya, I just googled it to make sure Frisky wasn't BSing and it's on Sony's official website as the June 29, 2010 version of the User Agreement. So it's always been there and people are making a big fuss over nothing for now.

Edit: About the "permanent disable" thing, I'm pretty sure "any other remedial efforts as necessary to remedy the violation." covers that, don't know why they added it.

I'm not worried about the name change, just seems like Sony combining things not OMG NOW WE CHARGE
 
I think that you guys are glossing over the fact that they now, in version 9 of the agreement which every account must agree to or have said account closed, explicitly state that they can and will permanently disable any device which uses this new umbrella service.

How many Sony devices will be using Sony Online Services? PSP? NGP? Xperia? TVs? Laptops? Really think about this re-branding of the online portion and the general consolidation of the service and then tell me that isn't something to get worked up over.
 
Wow...lots of FUD in here.

[quote name='nbballard']Have they said that the PSN will stop being the PSN? I'm under the impression that it will just be operated by SNEA instead of SCEA now.

Like I said before- with as many products as they have touching the digital market place (psp, playstation, phones, etc) they probably do need a single entity to manage all of it.[/QUOTE]
^This.

Seems to me Sony is just placing it's network services under a new corporate umbrella and making it known that if you are a jackass pirate or a dickwad hacker, your PSN account may be in jeopardy.

I'm seriously doubting that this ToS is much different from the one for XBL.

Sony is taking steps to defend the PS3, steps that should have been taken with the PSP. You guys want devs to keep making games for the PS3 right?
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Like I said before, this will not affect 99.97% of all PSN users out there. If you play around with custom firmware, etc, and they catch you, then that's on you. This is a non-issue for everyone else. If you're so scared about it, then don't do it to begin with.[/QUOTE]


that could affect those who gameshare. say someone whose part of a gameshare does something illegal then wouldnt all other who gameshare with them get in trouble as well?
 
It's as likely as to happen as any of the other weird stuff that's been in the TOS for years that have never occured. I don't see any reason that I should be any more concerned than I've been over the past few years, which is to say not at all.
 
[quote name='lokizz']that could affect those who gameshare. say someone whose part of a gameshare does something illegal then wouldnt all other who gameshare with them get in trouble as well?[/QUOTE]

This is just speculation, but I think it would depend.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong- but it's my understanding that if I start a gameshare account or sub account, that core account is tied to either the PS3 that created it, or the master PSN account on the system that created it (leaning toward the master account). I know that there is a limit of like, 16 sub-accounts, so they have to be counting these somehow.

If something illegal were to happen, seems like they would be able to shutdown the PS3 or the PSN ID accordingly. If the guy doing the illegal activity was the one that generated the gameshare, it might result in the account being closed, but otherwise you'd probably just lose a slot.
 
[quote name='lokizz']that could affect those who gameshare. say someone whose part of a gameshare does something illegal then wouldnt all other who gameshare with them get in trouble as well?[/QUOTE]

It would have zero effect on those who gameshare, beyond the master account being closed.
 
not sure about this mtxbass1

You may not sell, buy, trade, or otherwise transfer your Online ID, Sony Online Services account or any personal access to Sony Online Services through any means or method, including by use of web sites.

what does that mean to you?
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']I think that you guys are glossing over the fact that they now, in version 9 of the agreement which every account must agree to or have said account closed, explicitly state that they can and will permanently disable any device which uses this new umbrella service.

How many Sony devices will be using Sony Online Services? PSP? NGP? Xperia? TVs? Laptops? Really think about this re-branding of the online portion and the general consolidation of the service and then tell me that isn't something to get worked up over.[/QUOTE]

No one is glossing anything over. You are getting all worked up over nothing. You make it sound like Sony is going to be mass disabling consoles/devices as soon as the new terms kick in and SNEA takes over. In reality, i doubt Sony will ever have to exercise this. This is purely in the terms to put fear into users who are pirating/doing illegal things on their system. There isn't going to be some guy at Sony just randomly killing consoles for fun.

People are getting WAY too scared about the name change too. The company I work for recently created a new company to handle a different devision of products. You want to know what changed with the way things are handled? Nothing. The same people are working on the same products/projects and nothing has changed. The change to SNEA will be similar. They just want to have a single entity that can handle all network services, thats it. Nothing is going to change.
 
[quote name='Vader582']Wow...lots of FUD in here.

^This.

Seems to me Sony is just placing it's network services under a new corporate umbrella and making it known that if you are a jackass pirate or a dickwad hacker, your PSN account may be in jeopardy.

I'm seriously doubting that this ToS is much different from the one for XBL.

Sony is taking steps to defend the PS3, steps that should have been taken with the PSP. You guys want devs to keep making games for the PS3 right?[/QUOTE]
As long as those devs make games that aren't glitchfests right out of the gate that take six months worth of patching to get them half working, then I want devs to keep making games for the PS3.

But I'm also getting sick and tired of the sequels of sequels of sequels and clones of those types of games. If a gaming company wants my dollar from here on out they have to give me an experience that can't be matched anywhere else and have it work right from day one.

As far as people being dickwads or jackasses if they're hackers or pirates I'm in the same camp as other people on the hacking part at least. If I pay $300+ for a console, then as long as I'm not using it to cheat in the multiplayer portion of a game to gain an unfair advantage then whose business is it if I wanna play the (insert old gen game console name here)'s games on my PS3 via the HDD?

Sony's slogan should be changed from 'it only does everything' to 'it only does what we tell you it'll do and if we feel that you no longer need that function then it's our right to steal it from you'.

Mind you I never used Other OS on my 40gb PS3 when I had it, but it was nice to have the option there. That brings me to my next point, that being that Sony really doesn't tell you in their pre download screens(on the PS3) exactly what is in each firmware download BEFORE you download it.

So unless you go online to double check and see what's in them you may find your system has been radically changed and since there is no way to downgrade and get back any lost functions as of now(outside of possible hacking of the console) then you're pretty well fucked.

As for piracy, I have and always will prefer to have a physical legit copy of every game I own. But if loading up my games onto a HDD will save the Blu-Ray drive from being borked, then I'd load them up in a second and keep the physical media as a backup in the event of corruption of those files.

But true piracy(aka downloading shit for free from the internet) I am completely against.
 
As long as this doesn't stop me from re-downloading games I've already bought, then I have no problems with SNEA taking over. Jeebus thats such a stupid abbreviation.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']It would have zero effect on those who gameshare, beyond the master account being closed.[/QUOTE]

1) some people would be pissed about that

2) ever heard of MAC-address ban?

3) is the following written just because it sounds nice & scary?
You may not sell, buy, trade, or otherwise transfer your Online ID, Sony Online Services account or any personal access to Sony Online Services through any means or method, including by use of web sites.

4) how do you think Sony considers the reselling of gameshare slots when you're through with the games? (e.g. if I host a gameshare and then resell my slot, I'm most definitely breaking the ToS line just above!)
 
I lol @CFW users getting upset and throwing tantrums, aligning themselves against Sony over a name change that is probably coming from a legal standpoint that Geohot himself brought around by claiming that SCEA isn't legally allowed to sue him. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Dude is bringing about changes that you are not liking, go figure, bad side effect. He shouldn't have tried to make Sony take this seriously and worked towards shuffling it under the carpet so you can all steal his work and call yourselves hackers instead of pirates.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']I lol @CFW users getting upset and throwing tantrums, aligning themselves against Sony over a name change that is probably coming from a legal standpoint that Geohot himself brought around by claiming that SCEA isn't legally allowed to sue him. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Dude is bringing about changes that you are not liking, go figure, bad side effect. He shouldn't have tried to make Sony take this seriously and worked towards shuffling it under the carpet so you can all steal his work and call yourselves hackers instead of pirates.[/QUOTE]

Whammy!
 
Gaveuptommorow......."i doubt Sony will ever have to exercise this." (in regards to Sony bricking consoles and other devices using SOS) you shouldn't blindly have such goodwill and faith. Being apathetic about your consumer rights is a slippery slope. What else are you going to willingly give up and say "Shucks, it will never come to that." If it is never going to come to that, then there shouldn't be a need for them to include that in an e-document that they intend to be a binding agreement (which by the way you can't determine who agreed to).

That being said, (I think) this will only truly affect the current owners of PS3s. The people that have already invested in game licenses (correct me if I am wrong but this is an argument over a TOS regarding the online service provided by Sony, not the use of your PS3 completely offline). New PS3 owners will have the option to not agree to the overly burdensome terms for the online aspect of the console. I call them overly burdensome because you allow the corporation to terminate your rights to use the service they promise at any time and in effect for any reason. There may be (are probably) more issues, but I haven't had a chance to go over it in length.


Overall, I am getting a bit jaded with Sony, that being said I will more than likely agree to the new TOS. If they decide to start charging for online gaming, mass banning, allowing more developers to require a PSN/SOS (whatever they are going to call it) network connection to play I will go offline as well. This is going to really upset me because developers now push games out so premature that a patch for the game is usually being worked on before it is released and will require a network connection to download. Also I don't know the number of games that allow multiplayer through a network/router other than PSN, but I am guessing it is really low. This requirement to use their network for online gaming upsets me quite a bit. This is (primarily) the game developers fault though.

Take what you will from my post, and those that skipped over my post because you saw more than 15 words.............you probably saved 5 minutes of your life you will never get back. I don't blame you, I would probably do the same.
 
[quote name='GTmaster39']I don't get it. ^[/QUOTE]
Sone = Sony. KB 4 Life = Kevin Butler.

@Llamaw00d Sony is taking the legal steps to defend themselves and are compartmentalizing themselves appropriately so that when they do take ackshun, n00bs are gonna get pwnd. All this means is there is a new name on the door we walk through and instead of all of SCEA with all of it's executives, we just deal with the one office manager.

If any of you guys bothered to read the TOS of your own ISP, they can terminate your service at any time with no reason other than they can. Sony has done nothing different with the exception of telling people fuck around and we may swing a stick at you, fuck around some more and we're gonna drop a tree on your ass.
 
This is sad. I am seeing a bunch of adult (?) gamers crying about what could happen. Sony is a company. A business and they change policies all of the time. I'm not say that you shouldn't be conserned, but you make it seem like Sony punched your mom or something. Lordy.

As a gesture of good faith, I have taken the TOS of a few services you may or may not use. Feel free to worry at any time.

If you want just read the bolded its where the fun is at!

Itunes:
Collection and Use of Personal Information
Personal information is data that can be used to uniquely identify or contact a single person.
You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and it’s affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising.

(sell your info to their associates.)

■When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to join you on Apple forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number.

(Apple gifts you give iTunes cards for example, Apple has the right to use this info.)

Service Providers
Apple shares personal information with companies who provide services such as information processing, extending credit, fulfilling customer orders, delivering products to you, managing and enhancing customer data, providing customer service, assessing your interest in our products and services, and conducting customer research or satisfaction surveys. These companies are obligated to protect your information and may be located wherever Apple operates.

(Apple can use your info for spam, junk mail, telemarketers or creditors!)

Xbox Live:

Microsoft reserves complete and sole discretion with respect to the operation of the Service. Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (b) retrieve information from the Authorized Device and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this contract;

(Kinect spying anyone? How about reading your harddrive?)

and (c) upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service, any game or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an Authorized Device, from time to time without notice, expressly including by the automatic download of related software directly to your Authorized Device, including software that prevents you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.

(3rd party devices? Meaning that if they detect any 3rd party stuff such as an 'unauthorized' flash drive they can suspend your account.
Brick Your harddrive or console)

We may cancel, suspend, or otherwise limit your access to your Points balance if we suspect fraudulent, abusive, or unlawful activity with regard to your Points balance. Once we delete Points from a balance, we won’t reinstate them, except at our discretion. When we cancel, suspend, or otherwise limit access to your Points balance, your right to use your Points balance immediately ceases

(Selfexplanatory)

:grouphug: Everyone!
 
Name some companies with products which contain eFUSES and have in their ToS explicit terms about permanent disablement of any system or device.

Sony has previously added in the backdoor for remote code execution and when you couple that with the eFUSES and any number of system-level flashable areas it is perfectly possible to remotely turn your PS3 into a paperweight.

If your PS3 is using 3.56+ firmware and is connected to the internet in a way which does not specifically block certain addresses/domains then Sony has several attack vectors from which to brick your system period.

That's not hyperbole or conjecture. It is technically possible and it is explicitly stated in version 9 of the ToS as being an avenue for TERMINATION / CANCELLATION.

EDIT:
Just one last point and then I'll leave it be: This is the same division of the same company which has allowed a leap-year bug which removed entire swaths of hardware models from using PSN, a random number generator which didn't generate random numbers and was the very linchpin of their system security and a gigantically amateurish mistake, firmware versions which have disabled discs from being read and HDD upgrades from working and those are just the glaring technical blunders that I can think of off the top of my head.

Now do you really really want them, however remote the chance, to have in their power and terms the ability to stop your $300-600 piece of hardware from ever working again?

You guys are thinking about how if you just don't do anything nefarious then you're A-OK and I'm thinking about how many fucktarded mistakes they've already made which resulted in systems not functioning properly. It's like handing a chimp a loaded shotgun and hoping for the best.
 
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Seriously, the reading comprehension with some of you is absolute fail. The line clearly says " imposing a fee". That means they can charge you to create a PSN account. At no point does it say they will come in during the middle of the night and steal your money without your knowledge.

As for Sony charging for PSN, I can see them keeping online gaming for free, but charging for every other imaginable feature, which I'm fine with. Keeping online free is the key difference between the PS3 and Xbox and I can't see Sony giving that advantage up. At the same time, I can see them keeping a basic membership with the bare minimal, and then having PS+ and possibly one other option. In the grand scheme, we've gotten quite a bit of features for free for a while now. If gaming is the only reason someone owns a PS3, then free online is all they should need.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']You guys are thinking about how if you just don't do anything nefarious then you're A-OK and I'm thinking about how many fucktarded mistakes they've already made which resulted in systems not functioning properly. It's like handing a chimp a loaded shotgun and hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather have my console be "sick" for a day or two than to have it completely break because the company released shitty hardware in order to be the first out of the gate. And, yes, I don't mind Sony being able to kill a PS3 remotely if it means PSN will be better. I've actually been able to play MW2 online, and it was fun. To see a company have their console completely cracked (after 5 (FIVE!) years) and then fix it...says a lot.

People seem to forget that key fact; the PS3 was unhacked for roughly 5 years. So to say their security measures were "amateurish" is a bit ironic, especially considering they fixed is a few short months later.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']Name some companies with products which contain eFUSES and have in their ToS explicit terms about permanent disablement of any system or device.

Sony has previously added in the backdoor for remote code execution and when you couple that with the eFUSES and any number of system-level flashable areas it is perfectly possible to remotely turn your PS3 into a paperweight.

If your PS3 is using 3.56+ firmware and is connected to the internet in a way which does not specifically block certain addresses/domains then Sony has several attack vectors from which to brick your system period.

That's not hyperbole or conjecture. It is technically possible and it is explicitly stated in version 9 of the ToS as being an avenue for TERMINATION / CANCELLATION.

EDIT:
Just one last point and then I'll leave it be: This is the same division of the same company which has allowed a leap-year bug which removed entire swaths of hardware models from using PSN, a random number generator which didn't generate random numbers and was the very linchpin of their system security and a gigantically amateurish mistake, firmware versions which have disabled discs from being read and HDD upgrades from working and those are just the glaring technical blunders that I can think of off the top of my head.

Now do you really really want them, however remote the chance, to have in their power and terms the ability to stop your $300-600 piece of hardware from ever working again?

You guys are thinking about how if you just don't do anything nefarious then you're A-OK and I'm thinking about how many fucktarded mistakes they've already made which resulted in systems not functioning properly. It's like handing a chimp a loaded shotgun and hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]If you have a problem with eFuses, you're obviously doing something very wrong aside from wanting to run Linux perhaps under the old original firmware. What are the odds you want to run Linux? What are the odds you're clustering multiple PS3s for their super computing power under Linux? Chances are you're not. The only legitimate gripe is that of Linux users who had the feature removed. All the other idiots bitching about it in this thread? They're not bitching about Linux being removed.

If you want to complain about a PSN bug that lasted a day at the most that didn't require a firmware update, a security flaw that every online system gets at one point or another, game security that requires a firmware update and a bad patch that got patched within a week, I don't know what to tell you. My PS3 runs just fine, during the leap year bug I wasn't even online to experience the outage, games requiring legitimate firmware updates aren't an issue for me, I didn't decide to upgrade my HDD during the changeover for 3.56 and when I did decide to upgrade my HDD I left the other one completely intact so I could reuse it and continue in the event of any possible issues.

Given how Sony is currently handling bans and such, they're not taking quick enough action for me to be satisfied they're going to blow up my console. Hell they haven't done it for anybody with the exception of the Linux eFuse debacle. Seriously, go away, find your corner with your other little eye patch wearing buddies. You're not pioneers, you're not even contributing towards your favorite hacker's ultimate goals. They developed something without you and you're riding on their coattails and bitching along the way that they need to crank stuff out faster for you, the scum of the earth parasite who has no coding ability to do the work themselves.

The real hackers aren't bitching about ToS updates and eFuses.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']If you have a problem with eFuses, you're obviously doing something very wrong aside from wanting to run Linux perhaps under the old original firmware. What are the odds you want to run Linux? What are the odds you're clustering multiple PS3s for their super computing power under Linux? Chances are you're not. The only legitimate gripe is that of Linux users who had the feature removed. All the other idiots bitching about it in this thread? They're not bitching about Linux being removed.

If you want to complain about a PSN bug that lasted a day at the most that didn't require a firmware update, a security flaw that every online system gets at one point or another, game security that requires a firmware update and a bad patch that got patched within a week, I don't know what to tell you. My PS3 runs just fine, during the leap year bug I wasn't even online to experience the outage, games requiring legitimate firmware updates aren't an issue for me, I didn't decide to upgrade my HDD during the changeover for 3.56 and when I did decide to upgrade my HDD I left the other one completely intact so I could reuse it and continue in the event of any possible issues.

Given how Sony is currently handling bans and such, they're not taking quick enough action for me to be satisfied they're going to blow up my console. Hell they haven't done it for anybody with the exception of the Linux eFuse debacle. Seriously, go away, find your corner with your other little eye patch wearing buddies. You're not pioneers, you're not even contributing towards your favorite hacker's ultimate goals. They developed something without you and you're riding on their coattails and bitching along the way that they need to crank stuff out faster for you, the scum of the earth parasite who has no coding ability to do the work themselves.

The real hackers aren't bitching about ToS updates and eFuses.[/QUOTE]
So because some of us are complaining about Sony's stupid updates and their potential to brick our consoles we're suddenly all pirates, right?:roll:

I just don't want them to be able to go in and brick my console if someone is a butterfingers and hits the wrong button by accident some day/night at Sony Corp.

Don't say 'oh it'll never happen' either.

Take a look at the official firmware updates that have bricked peoples' consoles or caused loss of functionality that was unintended. How much you wanna bet when/if people called Sony about it they denied culpability and wanted $150-180 to 'fix' those consoles THEY bricked with their shitware update?

Example 1: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...s3-update-that-supposedly-bricks-consoles.ars

Example 2: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/007209.html

Example 3: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2008/07/02/latest_ps3_update_is_bricking_consoles

So to me it's not a question of IF some dumbass at Sony hits the wrong button sometime, but a matter of WHEN one of the monkeys over there goes OOPS and bricks a shitload of peoples' consoles.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']Name some companies with products which contain eFUSES and have in their ToS explicit terms about permanent disablement of any system or device.

Sony has previously added in the backdoor for remote code execution and when you couple that with the eFUSES and any number of system-level flashable areas it is perfectly possible to remotely turn your PS3 into a paperweight.

I only need to name one: Microsoft. I posted the Xbox live Tos in the link above your post that I'm replying to. Read it sometim-, you know what, I'll just post it here:

Xbox Live TOU
12. Service Operation and Equipment

Microsoft reserves complete and sole discretion with respect to the operation of the Service. Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (b) retrieve information from the Authorized Device and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service (Kinect maybe?) as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this contract;
and (c) upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service, any game or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an Authorized Device, from time to time without notice, expressly including by the automatic download of related software directly to your Authorized Device, including software that prevents you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.

Of course you already knew that...
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']
I just don't want them to be able to go in and brick my console if someone is a butterfingers and hits the wrong button by accident some day/night at Sony Corp.

Don't say 'oh it'll never happen' either.

Take a look at the official firmware updates that have bricked peoples' consoles or caused loss of functionality that was unintended. How much you wanna bet when/if people called Sony about it they denied culpability and wanted $150-180 to 'fix' those consoles THEY bricked with their shitware update?

Example 1: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...s3-update-that-supposedly-bricks-consoles.ars

Example 2: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/007209.html

Example 3: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2008/07/02/latest_ps3_update_is_bricking_consoles

So to me it's not a question of IF some dumbass at Sony hits the wrong button sometime, but a matter of WHEN one of the monkeys over there goes OOPS and bricks a shitload of peoples' consoles.[/QUOTE]

It happens all over the industry:

Example: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6236151.html

Example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/3495138/Xbox-Live-update-causing-console-problems.html

Example: http://www.1up.com/news/microsoft-acknowledges-360-bricking

Example: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/po...rience-breaking-consoles-ms-wants-100-to-fix/

Example: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/gta-iv-bricking-xbox-360-consoles-381057 (not firmware but software that Microsoft 'Loaned' Rockstar $150 million for.)

BTW for the record, I never had a bricked 360 from any updates but clearly someone has.
 
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[quote name='nystate']It happens all over the industry:

Example: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6236151.html

Example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/3495138/Xbox-Live-update-causing-console-problems.html

Example: http://www.1up.com/news/microsoft-acknowledges-360-bricking

Example: http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/po...rience-breaking-consoles-ms-wants-100-to-fix/

Example: http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/gta-iv-bricking-xbox-360-consoles-381057 (not firmware but software that Microsoft 'Loaned' Rockstar $150 million for.)

BTW for the record, I never had a bricked 360 from any updates but clearly someone has.[/QUOTE]
I didn't have a 360 up till about a month or so ago when I bought a $20 E74 one from a local shop and got MS to repair it for free for me. I haven't even tested it since I got it back because I bought it console only and I need to locate a power supply and such to do so.

I also only plan on playing the system offline since I don't wanna pay for online service for it, though I do have about a year's worth of OLD XBL(Xbox 1) cards I could try and use with it if I wanted to take it online.

But the thing to me is if it's because of a companies own software or a mistake on their part then they should fix all affected items FREE.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']tl;dr[/QUOTE]Dude you're against every Sony firmware update. Seriously, your shit is old and tired.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']Dude you're against every Sony firmware update. Seriously, your shit is old and tired.[/QUOTE]
I'm not against ALL updates, just any that adds stupid shit(see: Facebook icons, oooooo sparkly background:roll: and 3-4 more Playstation Store icons, among others) that serves no fuckin' purpose other than to waste peoples' time downloading them.

The security updates I don't mind as long as they would give me the option of deleting all the extra crap(see above). The downloads would probably take 1/3 the time if they would stop adding fluff and making it MANDATORY.

Usually they choose to make the fw updates go live right at 10-11pm EST, which is right when I get on to PLAY A GAME. Even with my PC I can choose to update LATER and still get online to surf the net or whatever I'm gonna do. With Sony it's 'download our shitware NOW or you can't get online'. You can't even download it in the background while playing a game online or off.

It's wasted GAMING TIME and totally ridiculous. THAT is why I'm against these silly updates.
 
If you're looking at a facebook icon or the sparkly backgrounds or even an extra PSN store button you're doing it wrong. Power on system. Set system to Auto Play on disc insert, insert disc, if you were really gaming, you wouldn't even be seeing a facebook icon or the PSN icons.
 
[quote name='SynGamer']You do know that Sony implemented incremental updates a while back, right...RIGHT?![/QUOTE]
Not really. Though I will admit I was kinda shocked by how quickly the last couple updates went. But they still added nothing I would want and wouldn't let me delete the shit they DID add.:roll: Even if they take up a nominal amount of space the extra icons n crap clutter up the XMB too much for my liking.
[quote name='Mad39er']If you're looking at a facebook icon or the sparkly backgrounds or even an extra PSN store button you're doing it wrong. Power on system. Set system to Auto Play on disc insert, insert disc, if you were really gaming, you wouldn't even be seeing a facebook icon or the PSN icons.[/QUOTE]
See above. Sony has cluttered the ever loving shit out of their consoles' XMB to the point where it's a chore to navigate now. Only useful update to me was the one that added in text chat so I can sit there n bs with friends while playing the same game if I don't wanna use my headset.

As for auto play on the disc, I don't like having that option on, so I turned it off a while ago. Besides which, wouldn't Sony just kick me back off of a game if it auto loaded when a fw update was prompted?
 
A chore? The console boots up, you flick the analog stick 2-3 times over to GAME and select what you want to play. Pretty simple.

EDIT: Simple for people who know what they are doing at least...
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Not really. Though I will admit I was kinda shocked by how quickly the last couple updates went. But they still added nothing I would want and wouldn't let me delete the shit they DID add.:roll: Even if they take up a nominal amount of space the extra icons n crap clutter up the XMB too much for my liking.

See above. Sony has cluttered the ever loving shit out of their consoles' XMB to the point where it's a chore to navigate now. Only useful update to me was the one that added in text chat so I can sit there n bs with friends while playing the same game if I don't wanna use my headset.

As for auto play on the disc, I don't like having that option on, so I turned it off a while ago. Besides which, wouldn't Sony just kick me back off of a game if it auto loaded when a fw update was prompted?[/QUOTE]I can understand not liking Auto Play, I even disabled it until they actually broke the feature. It does not auto play a disc already inserted when powered on nor does it auto play when you load the disc before the XMB fully loads. Switch the opening screen from What's New to off and you'll automatically end up at the Game section without having to do anything.

You're really just bitching to bitch, as I said, it's getting really old.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']

You're really just bitching to bitch, as I said, it's getting really old.[/QUOTE]

This x 100000.

Cheapest loves to complain about Sony at the drop of a hat.
 
Access_Denied is a chump. Thanks for getting my post deleted for a fucking Windows application of all things. Idiot.
 
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[quote name='Mad39er']I can understand not liking Auto Play, I even disabled it until they actually broke the feature. It does not auto play a disc already inserted when powered on nor does it auto play when you load the disc before the XMB fully loads. Switch the opening screen from What's New to off and you'll automatically end up at the Game section without having to do anything.

You're really just bitching to bitch, as I said, it's getting really old.[/QUOTE]
I don't leave a disc in my console when shutting it down or starting it up. When I sign into PSN I hold right on the D-Pad to check and see who's on on my friends list BEFORE deciding if I'm going to play a game or not.:D

And no, I'm not just 'bitching for the sake of bitching', I cannot stand these stupid updates when they add nothing of value to me personally and don't let me delete this garbage from my system.

Why is it that anyone with a different opinion other than 'Sony is the greatest' is 'bitching/trolling/a hacker/a pirate'? If not for the RROD/E-74 I would've gladly gone with the 360 this gen, as I'm sick of the people belittling my preferences when I mention them and definitely sick of the people who think Sony can do no wrong.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I don't leave a disc in my console when shutting it down or starting it up. When I sign into PSN I hold right on the D-Pad to check and see who's on on my friends list BEFORE deciding if I'm going to play a game or not.:D

And no, I'm not just 'bitching for the sake of bitching', I cannot stand these stupid updates when they add nothing of value to me personally and don't let me delete this garbage from my system.

Why is it that anyone with a different opinion other than 'Sony is the greatest' is 'bitching/trolling/a hacker/a pirate'? If not for the RROD/E-74 I would've gladly gone with the 360 this gen, as I'm sick of the people belittling my preferences when I mention them and definitely sick of the people who think Sony can do no wrong.[/QUOTE]It's bitching for the sake of bitching because you fucking complain about the same thing over and over and over again like we didn't grasp the last 15 times you said it in as many different threads. It's not that Sony can do no bad, it's because you contribute NOTHING.

Edit: Since you're busy editing your reply, I'll let you have the last word, you need it.
 
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[quote name='Mad39er']It's bitching for the sake of bitching because you fucking complain about the same thing over and over and over again like we didn't grasp the last 15 times you said it in as many different threads. It's not that Sony can do no bad, it's because you contribute NOTHING.[/QUOTE]
There is an ignore function on CAG you know.;) If you don't like what someone has to say, you can always use it. It works wonders.:D

Click on my user name, select 'ignore IAmTheCheapestGamer' hit OK on the next screen and then you never have to read the same thing over and over and over and over(and over and over and over) from me ever again.

Simple as that.

I'll do the same for you since the feeling is definitely mutual.;)
 
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