SAACHU ANDO DESUTOROI!! Anime & Manga Thread Lives Again

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Record of the Lodess War - ummm Anime law says you have to see this.
Escaflowne- good action, but more of a love story/soap opera
GTO - GREAT SERIES good to watch if you are in a bad mood
Witch Hunter Robin - I think this one is very underrated.

I would say GTO or Witch hunter robin depending on mood.


BTW Hello everyone!
 
Thanks for the suggestions so far everyone. If anyone else has any thoughts to add feel free to toss them in. Based off what everyone has said so far , my list is starting to look like this:

Haibane Renmei - based off 4 recommendations :D
Azumanga Daioh - based off 3 recs
GTO - based off 2 recs
Escaflowne - based off 2 recs
Record of the Lodess War - 1 rec
Last Exile - 1 rec
Witch Hunter Robin - 1 rec

These 3 have no recs so far :?:
Space Pirate Captian Herlock
Niea under 7
Zone of the Enders

and these 2 have negative recs :whistle2:(
Tenchi in Tokyo
Final Fantasy Unlimited
 
Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far everyone. If anyone eles has any thoughts on the matter , don't hesitate to toss them in. Based off what I've heard so far , my list is starting to look something like this:

Haibane Renmei - based off 4 recomendations :D
Azumanga Daioh - based off 3 recs
GTO - bases off 2 recs
Escaflowne - based off 2 recs
Last Exile - 1 rec
Record of the Lodess War - 1 rec
Witch Hunter Robin - 1 rec

All of these currently have no recs :?:
Space Pirate Captian Herlock
Niea under 7
Witch Hunter Robin (actually already saw this on Adult Swim , but was gonna re-watch it to better understand it)
Zone of the Enders

and these 2 have negative recs :whistle2:(
Tenchi in Tokyo
Final Fantasy Unlimited
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']And this is what's killing the anime industry. Anime is *supposed* to be released "piecemeal." In Japan, there's no chance in HELL that you would ever see such cheap box sets - you're lucky America gets them at all! Truth is, the Japanese companies don't like it when American companies release cheap box sets so quickly.[/QUOTE]
I will preface this by saying I have read a lot of your comments and usually agree with you on a lot of things but this comment, not so much.

Well the US and Japan are different markets. In Japan, anime doesn't make all it's money through DVD's sales-which is how it goes, for the most part, it the US. The Japanese market it able to generate money from televising the shows and, of course, anime related merchandise. The US market is dependent on the sales of DVD's.

Are we supposed to buy the singles when we are holding out for the box sets? This isn't charity, it's a business. If American's aren't willing to pay as much as the Japanese do for their DVD's then they have to figure out how to get us to buy their products, e.g., lowering the prices, or deal with the even lower sales of more expensive DVD's. It's their job to get us to want to buy their product. We shouldn't be buying stuff that is introduced in a manner we do not want or is too expensive for our liking. It's like floppy comics(singles). I usually wait for the trade paperbacks(collection). Just about nobody buys floppy's/dvd singles and instead wait for the trade paperbacks/boxsets. The burden is on them. Their business model, which is dependent solely on DVD sales, and their inability to sustain a profitable business through this model are a couple of the big things that's killing them, not us.
 
[quote name='StarKnightX']Thanks for the suggestions so far everyone. If anyone else has any thoughts to add feel free to toss them in. Based off what everyone has said so far , my list is starting to look like this:

Haibane Renmei - based off 4 recommendations :D
Azumanga Daioh - based off 3 recs
GTO - based off 2 recs
Escaflowne - based off 2 recs
Record of the Lodess War - 1 rec
Last Exile - 1 rec
Witch Hunter Robin - 1 rec

These 3 have no recs so far :?:
Space Pirate Captian Herlock
Niea under 7
Zone of the Enders

and these 2 have negative recs :whistle2:(
Tenchi in Tokyo
Final Fantasy Unlimited[/QUOTE]
:D
Haibane Renmei
Azumanga Daioh
GTO
Escaflowne
Record of the Lodess War
Last Exile
Witch Hunter Robin
Zone of the Enders

:shame:
Tenchi in Tokyo
Final Fantasy Unlimited
Space Pirate Captian Herlock

:whistle2:s
Niea under 7
 
[quote name='mkg12']I will preface this by saying I have read a lot of your comments and usually agree with you on a lot of things but this comment, not so much.

Well the US and Japan are different markets. In Japan, anime doesn't make all it's money through DVD's sales-which is how it goes, for the most part, it the US. The Japanese market it able to generate money from televising the shows. The US market is dependent on the sales of DVD's.

Are we supposed to buy the singles when we are holding out for the box sets? This isn't charity, it's a business. If American's aren't willing to pay as much as the Japanese do for their DVD's then they have to figure out how to get us to buy their products, e.g., lowering the prices, or deal with the even lower sales of more expensive DVD's. It's their job to get us to want to buy their product. We shouldn't be buying stuff that is introduced in a manner we do not want or is too expensive for our liking. It's like floppy comics(singles). I usually wait for the trade paperbacks(collection). Just about nobody buys floppy's/dvd singles and instead wait for the trade paperbacks/boxsets. The burden is on them. Their business model, which is dependent solely on DVD sales, and their inability to sustain a profitable business through this model are a couple of the big things that's killing them, not us.[/QUOTE]
You raise some excellent points. I'm certainly not against the sale of box sets, and I've picked up my fair share as well, but what I was trying to communicate is that the American anime industry would run into *big* trouble if they only released budget box sets instead of individual discs (niche and long-running shows being an exception - no way would something like Emma sell very well outside a collection). I think a healthy compromise is what ADV has been doing with most of their collected releases, with the removal of extras - that way people still have an incentive to pick up the individual discs if they like the show enough. And good lord, if anime was as expensive in America as it is in Japan, I'd be buying a hell of a lot less.

One minor nitpick, though - the anime industry in Japan generates most of its profit through the sale of anime-related goods, not advertiser dollars.

[quote name='refusedchaos']:D
Haibane Renmei
Azumanga Daioh
GTO
Escaflowne
Record of the Lodess War
Last Exile
Witch Hunter Robin
Zone of the Enders

:shame:
Tenchi in Tokyo
Final Fantasy Unlimited
Space Pirate Captian Herlock

:whistle2:s
Niea under 7[/QUOTE]
Fixed!

:D
Haibane Renmei
Azumanga Daioh
GTO
Escaflowne
Last Exile

:whistle2:|
Zone of the Enders
Captain Herlock
Witch Hunter Robin

:shame:
Tenchi in Tokyo
Record of Lodoss War
Final Fantasy Unlimited
Niea_7
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']You raise some excellent points. I'm certainly not against the sale of box sets, and I've picked up my fair share as well, but what I was trying to communicate is that the American anime industry would run into *big* trouble if they only released budget box sets instead of individual discs (niche and long-running shows being an exception - no way would something like Emma sell very well outside a collection). I think a healthy compromise is what ADV has been doing with most of their collected releases, with the removal of extras - that way people still have an incentive to pick up the individual discs if they like the show enough. And good lord, if anime was as expensive in America as it is in Japan, I'd be buying a hell of a lot less.

One minor nitpick, though - the anime industry in Japan generates most of its profit through the sale of anime-related goods, not advertiser dollars.[/QUOTE]

Ya, I realized I didn't mention anime merchandise in my initial post and edits. I guess you read my post before I got to get in that edit. :p
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']


Fixed!

:D
Haibane Renmei
Azumanga Daioh
GTO
Escaflowne
Last Exile

:whistle2:|
Zone of the Enders
Captain Herlock
Witch Hunter Robin

:shame:
Tenchi in Tokyo
Record of Lodoss War
Final Fantasy Unlimited
Niea_7[/QUOTE]
You didn't like Lodoss? Surprised. Other than that your list is pretty much the same as mine, except I haven't watched Niea_7 yet even though I own it.
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']You didn't like Lodoss? Surprised. Other than that your list is pretty much the same as mine, except I haven't watched Niea_7 yet even though I own it.[/QUOTE]
Not a fan of Lodoss at all, no. I think of it as one of those really bad shows from the early years of anime that people like because there just wasn't enough good stuff at the time. I call it the "Ninja Scroll Phenomenon."
 
Agree with Lemon on Lodoss being good "back in the dizzay" but probably not holding up by today's standards.

I can't imagine why anyone would watch Azumanga dubbed as it contains probably some of the best voice acting in it's native format ever. Also I'm not quite sure how dubs can really handle all of the play on word humor that well. It always feels "forced" when they try. I'm a crusty old relic before there really even was an American market so I guess I'm really indifferent as to whether or not they disappear.

I watched Lust Caution last night with my wife. Chinese with subs.
I watched Run Lola Run in German with subs, same for Das Boot.
I watched Carindiru and City of God in Portrugese with subs, fantastic movies.

I guess I love subs because it makes me feel like I can speak any language.

My wife is from Asia and spent her whole childhood watching bad dubs of Chinese series.
She has however acclimated herself to subs and enjoyed Lust Caution without complaint.

I feel everyone has the capacity to do so.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']Not a fan of Lodoss at all, no. I think of it as one of those really bad shows from the early years of anime that people like because there just wasn't enough good stuff at the time. I call it the "Ninja Scroll Phenomenon."[/QUOTE]
I still like it, and I only saw it a few years ago... So it doesn't fit into that category for me. It's a by the book fantasy show. As someone who reads a lot of fantasy novels, it was a nice show for me.
 
More great advice from everyone. I think I've seen most of the familar faces from this thread make comments already but I'll still leave it open to further suggestions. I orignally considered adding some of the movies/ova I have in my backlog to this list as well but figured they're easier to make time for. If everyone here wouldn't have a problem with giving me suggestions on that backlog as well , I'll put the list up. If I did though should I include them with my first list or count them as a seperate list?

Anyway , as the recommendations go so far here's what I have now:
Haibane Renmei - +5 recommendations
Azumanga Daioh - +5 recs
GTO - +4 recs
Escaflowne - +4 recs
Last Exile - +3 rec
Witch Hunter Robin - +2 rec
Zone of the Enders - +1 rec
Record of the Lodess War - +2 rec , -2 neg

Space Pirate Captain Herlock - -1 neg
Niea under 7 - -1 neg
Tenchi in Tokyo - -3 negs
Final Fantasy Unlimited - 3 negs

Not to much differant than what it was before but somewhat.

I get most of my suggestions for shows to pickup from mentions in game magazines (Witch Hunter Robin , Last Exile , ZOE) as well as animeondvd.com. Many of the above titles were picked up from various right stuf sales because they were included on the AoD essential collection. I do pick up some shows on my own though , and the shows listed above in my backlog isn't everything I have. If anyone is curious as to what else I own I don't mind saying.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I can't imagine why anyone would watch Azumanga dubbed as it contains probably some of the best voice acting in it's native format ever. Also I'm not quite sure how dubs can really handle all of the play on word humor that well. It always feels "forced" when they try. I'm a crusty old relic before there really even was an American market so I guess I'm really indifferent as to whether or not they disappear.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't really matter to me about whether it has great native voice acting if you can't understand what they are saying. I have no problem watcing a show subbed if the dub is awful or if that's the only way to watch it , and I can appreaciate to an extent when the native voice acting seems to really stand out or feels like it fits the character , but usually I prefer being able to just watch and listen to what is going on as opposed to listening and reading.

As for Azumanga Daioh specifically , Ive seen about the first maybe 6 episodes already and what I saw was pretty funny. The only reason I never finished it before was because I didn't have the rest of the dvds.

[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Stay away from Witch Hunter Robin. The most boring anime I've seen.[/QUOTE]

Too late , already seen it. I saw it originally when it was on adult swim and thought it was alright , just slow paced and a bit hard to follow. That's part of the reason I'm gonna go back and re-watch it , to hopefully understand it better.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon'] I call it the "Ninja Scroll Phenomenon."[/quote]

Misguided youth. Ninja Scroll is a classic...What's next Akira? You may not like it, but it needs to be mentioned. Gone with the Wind and Citizen Kane are classics, but they may seem overrated now to some people.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']Misguided youth. Ninja Scroll is a classic...What's next Akira? You may not like it, but it needs to be mentioned. Gone with the Wind and Citizen Kane are classics, but they may seem overrated now to some people.[/QUOTE]
A perfect example of the Phenomenon in action!

"Classic" does not always equal good, and I'm old enough to have watched Ninja Scroll when it was first released in America over ten years ago, thanks. Akira's decent, and it was definitely a milestone for anime in its day. Ninja Scroll... not so much. Violence and tits were what sold anime then, but I had higher storytelling standards both then and now.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']Violence and tits were what sold anime then.[/QUOTE]

yea i notice that too and i fell into that:roll:


hey is Gundam 00 worth watching? is Gundam X and Turn-a-Gundam woth importing?
 
I think Akira was my first introduction to the, "What the fuck was that shit??" phenomenon common to anime.

Witch Hunter Robin had so much potential but epic failed at storytelling.

Niea under 7 was a miserable follow-up to Lain. What a terrible disappointment.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']A perfect example of the Phenomenon in action!

"Classic" does not always equal good, and I'm old enough to have watched Ninja Scroll when it was first released in America over ten years ago, thanks. Akira's decent, and it was definitely a milestone for anime in its day. Ninja Scroll... not so much. Violence and tits were what sold anime then, but I had higher storytelling standards both then and now.[/quote]

And "good", when it comes to entertainment, is merely an opinion. One's bane is another's holy grail. I don't think everything has to be Shakespeare or Tolkien-esque, to merit a good time. If you were looking to Ninja Scroll for 'higher storytelling' then you definitely would've lamented your invested time. Now, if you just sat back & enjoyed the violence & tits, it would've been worth your investment. To me, anime is not just a genre of animation, it's a medium by which various genres can play in, just like movies. It won't all be high-brow stuff like Haibane Renmei - that would be boring. Sometimes, I don't want to think and am in the mood for looking at violence & tits. Other times I will go for a compelling story. I will agree, however, that Lodoss hasn't aged well.
 
Speaking of "classic" anime, I'd say my favorites are Lupin the 3rd, Project A-Ko, and Dirty Pair.

Dirty Pair holds a special place in my memory becuase Affair of Nolandia was the first anime I ever saw on broadcast TV (Superbook doesn't count :lol:). They used to have this channel called Network 1 (N1) around my senior year in high school (1995) and they would show Fist of the North Star too. Those were some really cool times. I really miss that old channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_One
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']A perfect example of the Phenomenon in action!

"Classic" does not always equal good, and I'm old enough to have watched Ninja Scroll when it was first released in America over ten years ago, thanks. Akira's decent, and it was definitely a milestone for anime in its day. Ninja Scroll... not so much. Violence and tits were what sold anime then, but I had higher storytelling standards both then and now.[/quote]

I the point I am getting at is: You would not have mainstram Anime if it were not for films like Ninja Scroll. Just beacuse it uses a different approach to storytelling, doesn't mean it is somehow inferior to "high brow" Anime. Ninja Scroll is an Action movie that pushed the limits at the time it was released. DO people watch Die Hard for its storyline? No. It is a different genre, with different measures of merit.

If you want to talk about Phenomenons, talk about Ghost in the Shell the Movie. It almost killed the American Anime market.
 
Ninja Scroll has zero plot and the characters are flat and very boring. however its action sequences are truly incredible and makes up for all other lacking areas.

FF:Advent Children is similar. the action and visuals are so good i forgot there was supposed to a story. :)
 
Gundam 00 is great. I like it MUCH more than Seed/Seed Destiny... I didn't even like Seed/Seed Destiny at all actually lol.

As the first entry based on a non fiction timeline, it is really WELL done and it's not as weird as Gundam Wing... I give it two thumbs up...

I heard Turn A Gundam is really good, haven't had a chance to watch it yet though...
 
[quote name='slowdive21']I the point I am getting at is: You would not have mainstram Anime if it were not for films like Ninja Scroll.[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree. Pokemon and Dragonball have done more for the permeation of anime into the American marketplace than Ninja Scroll ever did. All Ninja Scroll ever accomplished was reinforcing that same old violence-and-tits stereotype that Japanese anime used to be known for.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']I have to disagree. Pokemon and Dragonball have done more for the permeation of anime into the American marketplace than Ninja Scroll ever did. All Ninja Scroll ever accomplished was reinforcing that same old violence-and-tits stereotype that Japanese anime used to be known for.[/quote]

Yep. As much disdain as DBZ gets from a lot of people, it really is what got anime as a whole in the US where it is.

I think Ninja Scroll opened peoples eyes to that fact that just because soething is animated doesn't mean animation is for children only. To be honest I think Roger Rabbit helped pave way for animation in the US that adults can enjoy.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I think Ninja Scroll opened peoples eyes to that fact that just because soething is animated doesn't mean animation is for children only. To be honest I think Roger Rabbit helped pave way for animation in the US that adults can enjoy.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Ninja Scroll got enough exposure to leave much of an impact on the non-anime crowd, but I certainly remember the controversy surrounding Jessica Rabbit's breasts when that movie was released. I'd point to Looney Tunes and The Simpsons as being the true revolutionaries, though!
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']I have to disagree. Pokemon and Dragonball have done more for the permeation of anime into the American marketplace than Ninja Scroll ever did. All Ninja Scroll ever accomplished was reinforcing that same old violence-and-tits stereotype that Japanese anime used to be known for.[/quote]

I disagree. The search for 'Japanimation' (as we called it back in the day) like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City (T&A), and Doomed Megalopolis created demand for Anime.

Pokemon and DB have done more for the permeation of BAD anime into the American marketplace as well as Ghost in The Shell (movie). Eveyone thought all Anime was in demand and it flooded the market with substandard shows/films.

When Ninja Scroll was released, all Anime actually was good in the US market.
 
Wow. Gurren Lagann was amazing. The whole series was just absolutely epic. In my books, this is definitely one of my favorite series I've seen. If ADV ever actually starts releasing this series here, I'm definitely picking it up.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']I disagree. The search for 'Japanimation' (as we called it back in the day) like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Fist of the North Star, Wicked City (T&A), and Doomed Megalopolis created demand for Anime.

Pokemon and DB have done more for the permeation of BAD anime into the American marketplace as well as Ghost in The Shell (movie). Eveyone thought all Anime was in demand and it flooded the market with substandard shows/films.

When Ninja Scroll was released, all Anime actually was good in the US market.[/quote]




Those shows I highlighted in green created INTEREST in anime. DBZ created mainstream DEMAND. More people I knew got interested in anime after seeing DBZ on Cartoon Network. There is a big difference between the two. DBZ is the most mainstream title in all of anime. It isn't even debatable. People who know nothing about anime know what DBZ is. You can't say the same about Ninja Scroll or even Akira.

As for DBZ resulting in the permeation of bad anime in the US market, I'm not even sure how you drew that conclusion. Even with the rise in popularity in anime, there still aren't many shows that get air time on TV compared to what is available on DVD. The TV market can and should support the Yu-Gi-Ohs, Digimons, and Pokemons of the world. It's their success that allows companies to take chances on things like Paranoia Agent or FLCL. There is a very good reason Funimation hasn't had problems like Geneon or ADV and that is DBZ. Because of that they can put out Kiddy Grade, Burst Angel, and do a proper One Piece. Same thing with Viz and Naruto.

Now, what I would like to know is what qualifies as quality anime to you in the American market? There has to be some titles you like.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Those shows I highlighted in green created INTEREST in anime. DBZ created mainstream DEMAND. More people I knew got interested in anime after seeing DBZ on Cartoon Network. There is a big difference between the two. DBZ is the most mainstream title in all of anime. It isn't even debatable. People who know nothing about anime know what DBZ is. You can't say the same about Ninja Scroll or even Akira. [/QUOTE]

The VHS sales of the films created enough demand for companies to start taking risks on Anime titles as well as TV series. The film market is the reason television shows like DBZ were picked up in the first place. Akira and Ninja Scroll cracked the dam, the force of DBZ and pokemon broke the dam, and the market became saturated with much much more Anime. I hope that makes sense, I can not type nearly as quickly as I can think. The demand was always there...It was the supply that we didn't have access to. Some would also argue the birth of the WWW contibuted to the growth of the Anime market as well.

Now, what I would like to know is what qualifies as quality anime to you in the American market? There has to be some titles you like.
Click to expand...

Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, GITS SAC and 2nd gig, GTO (although they could have used better voice acting), Evangelion.

I enjoy Bleach from a design perspective, but the storyline is lacking as well as character development. Still a good action cartoon.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']Some would also argue the birth of the WWW contibuted to the growth of the Anime market as well.[/quote]


Absolutely.

The WWW contributed to the interest and growth of most every form of entertainment.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']The VHS sales of the films created enough demand for companies to start taking risks on Anime titles as well as TV series. The film market is the reason television shows like DBZ were picked up in the first place. Akira and Ninja Scroll cracked the dam, the force of DBZ and pokemon broke the dam, and the market became saturated with much much more Anime.[/QUOTE]
You're on crack, and here's why - Funimation launched Dragonball in America in 1995, one year prior to Ninja Scroll's release. Dragonball Z premiered in 1996 as well. I don't know what kind of crazy ideas you have floating around in your head where Ninja Scroll and Akira fans made up a large portion of the audiences for Dragonball and Pokemon, but you couldn't be more off-base. If anything, Dragonball cracked the dam, and Pokemon broke it. Ninja Scroll is insignificant in the big picture.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']You're on crack, and here's why - Funimation launched Dragonball in America in 1995, one year prior to Ninja Scroll's release. Dragonball Z premiered in 1996 as well. I don't know what kind of crazy ideas you have floating around in your head where Ninja Scroll and Akira fans made up a large portion of the audiences for Dragonball and Pokemon, but you couldn't be more off-base. If anything, Dragonball cracked the dam, and Pokemon broke it. Ninja Scroll is insignificant in the big picture.[/quote]


I think you are missing the point. I am not saying the audience is necessarily the same people. I am saying the sucessful sales from Anime films like Akira and others are what made US publishers more open to other Anime titles like DBZ and Pokemon.


Ninja Scroll was released in 1993 in Japan. We watched it in PAL format in the original Japanese in early 1994 if I remember correctly. The NTSC MANGA ENTERTAINMENT US release was June 1995 (because we wrote letters to MANGA to add it to their catalogue...At least that's what we would like to think;).

The June 1995 date is direct from the MANGA.com website who released ninja scroll.

Thanks for playing.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']I think you are missing the point. I am not saying the audience is necessarily the same people. I am saying the sucessful sales from Anime films like Akira and others are what made US publishers more open to other Anime titles like DBZ and Pokemon.

Ninja Scroll was released in 1993 in Japan. We watched it in PAL format in the original Japanese in early 1994 if I remember correctly. The NTSC MANGA ENTERTAINMENT US release was June 1995 (because we wrote letters to MANGA to add it to their catalogue...At least that's what we would like to think;).

The June 1995 date is direct from the MANGA.com website who released ninja scroll.

Thanks for playing.[/QUOTE]
Successful sales? Anime was far more niche then than it is now - I'd hardly sales to the incredibly small anime fan base back then "successful." Simply put, the financial success of Dragonball and Pokemon in Japan is what attracted US publishers to them - they would have been released in America regardless of the existence of films like Akira, Ninja Scroll, and Ghost in the Shell. Those may be the titles that engaged a small group of us back in the day, but they are not what caused the anime boom. If anything, those films ensured that America kept getting the same violent, substanceless garbage (compared to the variety we have now, anyways) that anime was known for back then.

One thing I will give you credit for, though, is Ninja Scroll's US release date - IMDB and Wikipedia need to be updated.
 
I'm from back in the day and I have to say Lemon isn't saying anything incorrect.

I remember the con scene pre and post pokemon. It was like a totally different universe.

Everyone knows DBZ but Ninja Scroll is only really well known amongst the older crowd.

I would have to say that Vampire Hunter D being shown dubbed on TBS late nights along with Robot Carnival also had a huge impact on getting a lot of young adults into anime.

VHD has a release date of 1993 according to IMDB.

Other anime I recall from the time: Devil Hunter Yoko, Ninja Scroll, Guyver, BubbleGum Crisis, Doomed Megaloposis, and of course Akira.
 
I forgot about VHD and Guyver...They go on the list too. Actually they used to show Anime on Public acess uncut and with subs in chicago too. I remember seeing doomed Meagalopoils on TV before seeing DBZ in the US.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']Successful sales? Anime was far more niche then than it is now - I'd hardly sales to the incredibly small anime fan base back then "successful." [/quote]

Said by a person who clearly does not understand business. Sales have to start somewhere. Ninja Scroll, Akira, VHD, and GITS are still among the best selling Anime of all time. (According to anime news network's data of US Anime sales). Their data does not include VHS sales. So the actual numbers will be higher for all of the movies I mentioned above. Pretty good for 'substanceless garbage', Wouldn't you say?!


If anything, those films ensured that America kept getting the same violent, substanceless garbage (compared to the variety we have now, anyways) that anime was known for back then.
Click to expand...

Isn't DBZ violent subatanceless garbage? I enjoy DBZ as much as the next person, but I think it would easily fit in that category.

I have only watched a few episodes of pokemon, but isn't the concept about capturing animals and forcing them to fight? Or is violence against animals ok? At least ninja scroll has some references to Japanese history as well as Japanese legend.



One thing I will give you credit for, though, is Ninja Scroll's US release date - IMDB and Wikipedia need to be updated.
Click to expand...

Most educated people know wikipedia is not a valid source. I would not recommend referencing them as a source for information.
 
Holy crap, I almost missed out on the $8.99 volumes of Tenjho Tenge at Rightstuf. They have low quantities on every disc. I only needed 3-8 (and they were missing volume 6), but at least I got most of them. I also got Gilgamesh vol. 5 and Last Exile vol. 3. I thnk Ergo Proxy is the last major thing I want to complete from Geneon now. I already have volume 1, I just need the rest.
 
I love Vampire Hunter D.

So glad there is a manga now. I just wish it'd come out faster. I'm surprised it's actually coming out in US first before Japan lol.
 
Japan's Spring televised Anime season is looking REALLY good...

Allison and Lillia 04/03
Macross Frontier 04/03
Nabari no Ou 04/06
Vampire Knight 04/07
Monochrome Factor 04/07
Real Drive (RD Sennou Chousashitsu)
Himitsu: Top Secret 04/08
Soul Eater 04/07
Golgo 13 04/11
Crystal Blaze (aka Glass Maiden)
Nijuu Menzou Musume 04/12
The Tower of Druaga: The Aegis of Uruk 04/04
Blassreiter 04/05


Mainly looking forward to Macross, Vampire Knight, and Golgo 13. :)
 
I really can't wait for Kyoto Animation to either make the next Full Metal Panic series or the next Haruhi series. Maybe I just need to give more new anime a try, cause I haven't really been excited by a lot that's been coming out lately. Like I said, I didn't even think about giving Gurren Lagann a try until it was all said and done and I wish I gave it a try sooner.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']Said by a person who clearly does not understand business. Sales have to start somewhere. Ninja Scroll, Akira, VHD, and GITS are still among the best selling Anime of all time. (According to anime news network's data of US Anime sales). Their data does not include VHS sales. So the actual numbers will be higher for all of the movies I mentioned above. Pretty good for 'substanceless garbage', Wouldn't you say?![/QUOTE]
I have a degree in Advertising, so the chances that I understand business better than you do are quite high - call me when you've created entire campaigns from the ground up. But in any case, I assume you're referring to this data:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2006-01-31/top-selling-anime-dvd-movies

Considering how long these films have been around, I'm not too surprised. I'm actually more surprised that they've all been beaten by the Yu-Gi-Oh movie! Anyways, a few things - first, the list seems to apply only to anime *movies*, and not anime DVDs as a whole. Second, and much more important to what we're debating here, is that these are figures for anime sales *now* (okay, two years ago, but still). We're discussing the sales of anime in the 90's, are we not? The anime market is *huge* compared to what it was pre-Pokemon, and even now, the best-selling anime DVDs only sell a small fraction of what non-anime does (around 10-15%). You can imagine that number was much lower before the boom, which is what I was referring to when I mocked the "success" of anime in the mid-90's.

[quote name='slowdive21']Isn't DBZ violent subatanceless garbage? I enjoy DBZ as much as the next person, but I think it would easily fit in that category.

I have only watched a few episodes of pokemon, but isn't the concept about capturing animals and forcing them to fight? Or is violence against animals ok? At least ninja scroll has some references to Japanese history as well as Japanese legend.[/QUOTE]
Now you're just being silly. You know there's no comparison between Dragonball or Pokemon and the violent, cursing-every-other-word releases that Manga became famous for in the 90's.

[quote name='slowdive21']Most educated people know wikipedia is not a valid source. I would not recommend referencing them as a source for information.[/QUOTE]
It's a perfectly valid source provided you're not writing a research paper. For random trivia, it's usually quite handy! Are you saying that everything printed on Wikipedia is false? C'mon.

I think you're starting to grasp at straws at this point. Focusing more on being a douche and less on your argument isn't doing you any favors.
 
[quote name='Kuroi Kaze']I would have to say that Vampire Hunter D being shown dubbed on TBS late nights along with Robot Carnival also had a huge impact on getting a lot of young adults into anime.[/QUOTE]

I remember seeing Vampire Hunter D on late at night some time during the late 90s I believe. I thought the show was kinda strange. Rewatching it a few years ago helped me appreciate it more. I think the more recent VHD movie was better overall though.


[quote name='slowdive21']Isn't DBZ violent subatanceless garbage? I enjoy DBZ as much as the next person, but I think it would easily fit in that category.[/Quote]

I'm probably gonna make myself look like a fool or a loser by saying this but I disagree. It may be violent but substanceless garbage not so much. For me at least , any show that can draw out emotional feelings for the characters or make me actually kinda care about the characters beyond how cool they are or what they can do shows some substance at least. Two specific cases I can site being Krillian during the Frieza saga and Vegata during the Boo saga.

On a related note though , I felt that YuYu Hakusho did a lot of what was good about DBZ better. It kept the fights at a good length and pace and gave more emotional draw towards the characters , especially when the cast in YYH didn't have the dragonalballs as a fail safe against death.

I can't say how much substanceless garbage Ninja Scroll is or how it compares specifically to DBZ as I've never seen it , but I've heard a lot about it.


[quote name='slowdive21']I have only watched a few episodes of pokemon, but isn't the concept about capturing animals and forcing them to fight? Or is violence against animals ok? At least ninja scroll has some references to Japanese history as well as Japanese legend.[/quote]

That's kinda of shallow way to look at pokemon , however it is correct to an extent. I don't think that's the message fans should take home from the show (and certenly not the message the creators want you to take home from the show I'm sure) but it has been an issue that has dogged the show from the beginning. Personally I've never looked at the show that way since I never felt like that from playing the games and I've always looked at the show as simply an extension of the games.


[quote name='slowdive21']Most educated people know wikipedia is not a valid source. I would not recommend referencing them as a source for information.[/QUOTE]

I have a few friends in college that are heavy wikipedia editors that would take you to task for that comment , but that is not my thoughts or my battle.:)


On the thought of first anime you've seen or the show that got you into to anime , I know the one I would pick. Not sure it would actually technically be anime or not , either way , Mysterious Cities of Gold. I loved that show so much as a kid and wish it was available on dvd , unfortunatly it seems to be hung up in rights issues.

Quick , based on that above comment , and without looking at my public profile , anyone wanna guess my age?:p
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']I have a degree in Advertising, so the chances that I understand business better than you do are quite high - call me when you've created entire campaigns from the ground up. But in any case, I assume you're referring to this data: [/QUOTE]

You shouldn't have rolled the dice on that one...My B.S. is in Marketing and I have an MBA. I would be interested to know what ad agency you worked for and what campaigns you actually have worked on. I worked for DDB. I also created a grassroots campaign for a major University in Illinois. IF you are a hot chick I'll give you my number. haha


Considering how long these films have been around, I'm not too surprised. I'm actually more surprised that they've all been beaten by the Yu-Gi-Oh movie! Anyways, a few things - first, the list seems to apply only to anime *movies*, and not anime DVDs as a whole. Second, and much more important to what we're debating here, is that these are figures for anime sales *now* (okay, two years ago, but still). We're discussing the sales of anime in the 90's, are we not? The anime market is *huge* compared to what it was pre-Pokemon, and even now, the best-selling anime DVDs only sell a small fraction of what non-anime does (around 10-15%). You can imagine that number was much lower before the boom, which is what I was referring to when I mocked the "success" of anime in the mid-90's.
Click to expand...


Show me some data that shows DBZs sales compared to other Anime sales at the time of it's release. If I am grasping at straws, why am I the only one who has provided data? Before you come back with 'you tube views', I would like to say that is not a valid source either. :lol:


It's a perfectly valid source provided you're not writing a research paper. For random trivia, it's usually quite handy! Are you saying that everything printed on Wikipedia is false? C'mon.
Click to expand...

You certainly like to make broad generalizations. I never stated 'everything printed on Wikipedia is false'. I just am tired of people acting like it is a valid source for facts. Are you sure you are a teacher; Or are you just someone sent over to Japan on the jet program or something? Now I am being a d-bag. :boxing:

I think everyone is getting sick of reading our discussion. Sorry people!
 
[quote name='StarKnightX']Quick , based on that above comment , and without looking at my public profile , anyone wanna guess my age?:p[/quote]

Mysterious Cities of Gold fan? Considering my friend used to gush about that almost every chance he got, I would wager at least 27 at the youngest. I missed that myself since I didn't have cable myself until I was about 5 or so, so I missed out on MCoG. Then again I grew up with a 2600 and a Pong box instead so who cared about cable? ;)

And I do have to agree with Lemon, at least when it came to availability. Back over here the best we got locally were the randomly syndicated anime (ie: Dragon Warrior, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball [original], Ronin Warriors) or whatever would trickle out onto Nickelodeon in their early days (ie: that one with the penguins, Noozles, whatever fairy tale series Saban tossed his name onto [maybe? It's been ages.]). Otherwise nobody knew what the hell anime was. At best it was a passing word in gaming magazines in the import sections (rare) or, if you got the Sci-Fi Channel, you got an eyeful of what anime was.

And since I really got into anime through Sci-Fi [3rd Annual Festival of Anime, specifically] back around '93...yeah, it was pretty much the hyper-violent stuff. Demon City Shinjuku, Lily C.A.T., Casshan: Robot Hunter, 8-Man After and Project A-Ko vs. Battle 1 Gray Side and Battle 2 Blue Side. For my 7th grade self all of it was quality although A-Ko stuck out like a sore thumb on that list, mostly because there wasn't excessive (ie: shocking/fun) violence to be had.

And other than Sci-Fi and their new showings each year coupled with repeats of old material on Saturdays (god, that was glorious), two stores by me carried anime at all. "Carried" is really the operative word, mostly because it involved a scant shelf of titles. They were mostly of the more violent/mindless variety overall but, hey, they had a few episodes of Ranma on the shelf as well if you were lucky. Once DBZ hit, though...man, did those sections expand. One shelf became four, you were more likely to find light comedies, romantic comedies, children's shows, and more "hey, this series is on TV!" releases as well amongst the previous stuff.

After Pokemon...lord, four shelves easily became sixteen, subs were not relegated only to Right Stuf's catalog, series only mentioned by die-hard fans were available for pick-up, the section was populated by more than "skeezy guy in trenchcoat", etc.

...ugh, lost my point, if any. Just nostalgic in a way, I guess. Fun times, fun times. ;)
 
[quote name='slowdive21']You shouldn't have rolled the dice on that one...My B.S. is in Marketing and I have an MBA. I would be interested to know what ad agency you worked for and what campaigns you actually have worked on. I worked for DDB. I also created a grassroots campaign for a major University in Illinois. IF you are a hot chick I'll give you my number. haha[/QUOTE]
One of my capstone projects was an entry for a national Coca-Cola campaign competition, for which I got third place in the entire nation - quite proud of that! Unfortunately third place doesn't get your campaign set into action. I, too, worked on a grassroots campaign for my university in Wisconsin (UW-EC). I've also done independant work for several restaurants and bars in my hometown. Now, however, I'm teaching in Japan.

Oh, and sorry, I'm a guy, and happily seeing someone!

[quote name='slowdive21']Show me some data that shows DBZs sales compared to other Anime sales at the time of it's release. If I am grasping at straws, why am I the only one who has provided data? Before you come back with 'you tube views', I would like to say that is not a valid source either. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Well, as of 2003, DBZ VHS and DVD sales seem to have topped 16 million. The article also makes mention of their success on the Nielsen charts. - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb335/is_200311/ai_hibm1G1111035918

Here's a Billboard chart for top sales *this week*, and oh look, TWO Dragonball releases! - http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Videos&f=Top+TV+DVD+Sales

I don't even think it's a debatable point that Dragonball outsells most other anime. Heck, I don't even like the franchise, and I'm willing to admit that.

[quote name='slowdive21']You certainly like to make broad generalizations. I never stated 'everything printed on Wikipedia is false'. I just am tired of people acting like it is a valid source for facts.[/QUOTE]
That's quite a broad generalization of your own. It's most certainly a valid source for facts - you just need to make sure that what you're reading is properly cited!

[quote name='slowdive21']Are you sure you are a teacher; Or are you just someone sent over to Japan on the jet program or something? Now I am being a d-bag. :boxing:[/QUOTE]
I'm most certainly a teacher, employed by the Japanese government. Yes, it's through JET, but that doesn't make me any less a teacher - a damn good one, at that! I work very hard at my job, and truly care about the education of my students. How petty of you to try to undermine my work.
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']

I don't even think it's a debatable point that Dragonball outsells most other anime. Heck, I don't even like the franchise, and I'm willing to admit that.[/quote]

I am talking about in 1996, the timeframe we are discussing.



I'm most certainly a teacher, employed by the Japanese government. Yes, it's through JET, but that doesn't make me any less a teacher - a damn good one, at that! I work very hard at my job, and truly care about the education of my students. How petty of you to try to undermine my work.
Click to expand...

I know I'm awful, sorry GTO.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']I am talking about in 1996, the timeframe we are discussing.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, can't find sales figures that old. You're trying to divert the actual debate, though. Here's a nudge in the right direction for you since you seem to have lost track - Dragonball and Pokemon have done more for the American anime industry than Akira and Ninja Scroll ever did. Search out your own sales figures pre-Pokemon and post-Pokemon if you want to prove your case, because I don't give a flying fart about this other crap you're trying to bring into the discussion. The burden is on you to prove me wrong, and it sounds like nobody's got your back on this one.

[quote name='slowdive21']I know I'm awful, sorry GTO.[/QUOTE]
GTS, actually.
 
[quote name='slowdive21']You shouldn't have rolled the dice on that one...My B.S. is in Marketing and I have an MBA. I would be interested to know what ad agency you worked for and what campaigns you actually have worked on. I worked for DDB. I also created a grassroots campaign for a major University in Illinois. IF you are a hot chick I'll give you my number. haha [/quote]

Which U of i? Urban Champaign? & what year(s) were you there?
 
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