Shin Megami Tensei IV - Samurai & Demons - Out now!

Don't worry about a "bad" ending.  The "bad" ending is a single choice and you'll know it when you see it.  The "best" ending is neutral but there is always NG+ if you don't get it.

 
Dead of Knight said:
Don't worry about a "bad" ending. The "bad" ending is a single choice and you'll know it when you see it. The "best" ending is neutral but there is always NG+ if you don't get it.
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Based on where I am (last night I did figure out where to go and just discovered the Tayama's "secret") how much longer do you think I have?

Also, the game seems to be getting easier and easier. I had a lot of trouble early on but now I'm just cruising through domains and even bosses. I have a pretty good handle on how to pummel demons with elemental damage. I guess early on I didn't have the spells and didn't realized how much you could chain things together.

 
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Yeah, I accepted a challenge quest and was warned that it was a little tough for my level.  Early on that would have meant I would get destroyed.  I was having a hard time with some 2 and 3-star ones early on. This one was 6 or 7 stars.  I went ahead and did it anyway and it was one of the easiest ones yet.

Also, should I just be using the incense on my main character?  I've used a few but have tons more in reserve.  It seems just from leveling up and from armor I am pushing up past 50-60 in most stats (and over 80 in Magic) and I'm just level 48.  I'm assuming those cap at 99 but maybe not?  If so, the incense almost seems superfluous.  Or will I want to use that on certain demons later?  I have a hard time with that, though, since I keep fusing them into others - don't think I'm anywhere near having a "keeper" demon yet, though I do tend to stick with some for a long time.

 
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Dead of Knight said:
Yeah just use it on your main. No it doesn't cap at 99.
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Wait, so is the choice between following
Walter or Jonathon (joining with the black samurai or killing her)
not the key moment? I just did that (went with the first option) and it seems to have changed things quite a bit.

 
Yeah, just discovered that late last night when I met back up with the other guy and he insisted that we, in fact, had done the other choice.  Still, though, I'd be interested to see what happened on that branch (before it merged again).  Because the one I did pick was pretty cool in terms of what I ended up fighting.  I did keep my second save back before the choice so I can try it out if I want.

I had just thought the game was coming to an end because my map seemed fully explored but then
all of a sudden I'm in destroyed Tokyo and it is all new - sort of...

One question - after I deal with the part I'm in, do I get to go back to the regular part?  Because I had a whole bunch of quests still to do and I was hoping to go back to them.  It says "closed" on all of them now but obviously that is because they are not accessible at the current time.  But are they permanently not accessible?  It seems like they should open up again because at least one I got in the final area after my choice and just before I
pushed the switch
.

 
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Don't worry, you can go back later on, but some quest might not be accessible.

 
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Damn, so I guess I locked myself into the "law and order" path (Jonathon).  I just checked out a FAQ and it seems that way you only fight one set of baddies (instead of both) at the end and don't get to do any post-game stuff.  I wish I had known that earlier.  I didn't even keep a save where you "push the button" which can effect alignment +/- 9.  That might have been the difference for me.  Though in general I think I always picked "good" answers (like letting the arena guys live each time).  Usually that results in the better ending for a game - but not in the case of SMT IV I guess.

I don't know if I have the heart to play through again, though I suppose if I keep all my levels and items I can do it pretty quickly.

Also, do you ever get to fuse more than 2 demons together?  I see that there are slots for 4 and I've been waiting all game to get the ability to fuse more than 2.  Now that I'm near the end I'm still not seeing it.

 
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mask-air-raid said:
I have no clue what that last part means. Rephrase it.
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Can't rephrase it any better, but I did figure it out. I am right at the end game and now am trying to beat one of the Challenge bosses who is damn tough (whereas the end was easy - ran through it just to be sure then went back again). Anyway, now that I'm fusing demons left and right I see that the multiple fusion (ie, more than 2 at once) is only for the "Special" demons. The other 2 slots (of the 4 available) are never used in regular fusion.

It took me till tonight to see the "use compendium" option on the Fusion search - that is letting me find the demons needed for the special fusion pretty easily. Of course I have to pay for at least one of themn that way and I ran out of money - but it is pretty easy to figure out what you need from the silhouette.
 
More than two at once would have been a better hint. I at first thought it was a history limit.

I don't know if you've figured out that some Demons can be fused outside special fusions, but they can if you have been told that they can be summoned at will.
 
io said:
Damn, so I guess I locked myself into the "law and order" path (Jonathon). I just checked out a FAQ and it seems that way you only fight one set of baddies (instead of both) at the end and don't get to do any post-game stuff. I wish I had known that earlier. I didn't even keep a save where you "push the button" which can effect alignment +/- 9. That might have been the difference for me.
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You have to push the button. There is no choice in the matter.

 
Dead of Knight said:
You have to push the button. There is no choice in the matter.
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Yeah, actually I meant the step right after that:

"Do you intend to preserve the current status quo? Are you going to destroy
the order of things?"

[W] I'll preserve the status quo. (Alignment +10)
[J] I'll destroy the order of things. (Alignment -10)
[ ] I don't know (Return to previous question)
 
Side quests also affect alignment in some cases. You could alter your alignment with them before the lock. There also is a dying lady who can add or subtract some points when you find her. It's tough to play without knowing what everything does. You must go toward one at first but you can stay neutral by ignoring Demons in battle and fix your alignment later if you're starting again.
 
io said:
Yeah, actually I meant the step right after that:

"Do you intend to preserve the current status quo? Are you going to destroy
the order of things?"

[W] I'll preserve the status quo. (Alignment +10)
[J] I'll destroy the order of things. (Alignment -10)
[ ] I don't know (Return to previous question)
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The actual question you wanted to save right before is after the fight with
King Kenji.]
You should have access to up to 3 endings just from that question. I got Neutral, Chaos, and bad. Law will have to wait for another playthrough.

 
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Dead of Knight said:
The actual question you wanted to save right before is after the fight with
King Kenji.]
You should have access to up to 3 endings just from that question. I got Neutral, Chaos, and bad. Law will have to wait for another playthrough.
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Perhaps I could have gone down to neutral from Law. Yeah, the bad one is always available (and let me tell you the Law one isn't much better than the bad one). But I think it is possible to have too many points such that the -10 there might not have gotten me down to neutral. I pretty much picked every "law" answer by default. But anyway, I wish there had been something a little more obvious about what to choose. It isn't by which person you go with, because I think I actually chose Walter, and yet still got the Jonathon ending. It was strange - at one point Walter just disappeared without any dialog or plot point. I didn't even notice when it happened.

I want to play through again since the neutral one has way more to do at the endgame (so watching it on Youtube is pointless - it isn't just cutscenes but a whole series of challenges and bosses). But I fear that I'll have to obsess over every +/- point to get that ending and it would really suck to end up in the wrong place again. Plus having to look shit up all the time while playing saps the enjoyment. On the other hand, I got to where I am because I didn't look stuff up...

However, I do have access to a demon in the Law ending that I guess you can't get any other way. The problem is, it seems he was intended to be for a second playthrough since he is incredibly difficult. I mean every other end-game thing up to this point (including the actual Law end-boss itself which I played through just to be sure) is really easy. But this guy just pounds you with all-mighty attacks which can't be blocked or countered in any way. I can't even come close to killing him.

So I have a dilemma - I feel like I want to take care of him now while I am in that location (since no way will I play it again as Law to get back there on a 3rd playthrough). I don't want to move on and start playthrough #2 without finishing him off. But if I do finish him off I kind of feel like it would be the ultimate goal in the game anyway and that might be all I need to do.

Or, what is most likely, is that I'll never figure out how to beat him, not restart the game, and just move on ;).

So, anyway, last night I spent like 4 hours just fusing the crap out of demons (once I discovered you could pull in Compendium demons in the search parameters). I've made a ton of the Special ones, though, really, none of them are all that special. I do need more gun-resistant ones for that tough boss though. His two attacks are gun and almighty. I might possibly beat him if he chooses the gun one more often.
 
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Yes, it is possible that you can only get two endings- Law/Chaos and bad if you went too much one way.  And yeah, neutral's endgame is MUCH meatier than Law and Chaos.  Law and Chaos get really gypped in terms of content.

 
Well, I'm still dicking around at the end of the Law path. I decided that what I wanted to do was fuse every demon possible.

The problem now is one of money - or rather the lack of it. The game is not grindy at all with respect to levels and being able to beat the bosses and complete it. Which is why I don't understand the articles about the DLC - they say it is a way for people to beat the game without grinding. Grinding is not necessary in the slightest to beat the game. But it is most definitely necessary for completing the compendium as you either have to go catch tons of them or buy duplicates for fusing.

So I just shelled out $2.99 for the pack that provides money (I guess in the form of a special area where you fight demons that drop expensive items).

I am so anti-DLC for the most part. I usually only get story-related stuff (ie, things that add multiple hours to a game) and then only when they are on sale. But I'm so into this game that I broke my own rule ;). And, well, I just happened to have $5 in my eShop account so that made it easy.

Now I'm tempted to get a few of the boss-fight DLCs as well. But we'll see. I most likely will just try to power through the neutral path once I make all the demons I can.
 
Here's an interesting tidbit for those who get this game later and are considering the DLC: you can also get App Point and Exp Point item drops in the "Macca" DLC. So there is really no need to buy all of those. I've only made 3 runs into the DLC totaling maybe an hour and a half and picked up 2.5 - 3 million Macca but also probably 150 App Points and several Heavy Grimoires (which advance you a level) and tons of Light Grimoires (which provide a big chunk of exp). I don't really need the exp considering I'm already at level 96 just from one regular playthrough. But I can use them on demons for unlocking their skills if needed. I do still need App Points to unlock several more things - if the level caps at 99 then you definitely need the items (Points Cards) to get everything unlocked. You don't get enough from just leveling up.

There are flying mobs that sometimes consist of 4 different types which drop all the different boosting items. Other times the flying mobs are just the red ones (which drop the valuable items). But if you ignore the walking mobs (which will always have the red type and some other monsters) and go after flying ones only, you can get the other types pretty frequently - I'd say once every 4 or 5 times.

I finished fusing everything I could and then went to the expensive shop (requiring the Black Card near Ginza) and picked up the rest of the outfit I had bought the body piece for and then another set just for appearance sake. Each piece of those sets costs like 350,000.

Then I started a New Game Plus and was incredibly bored with the first part. But hopefully given that I won't lose any battles and can skip all the dialog I can get back to the end pretty quickly. I'm following a guide to get neutral alignment this time ;).
 
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